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[l Zealot l]

Glasslands was terrible. The whole trilogy was easily the worst Halo books I've read. I hate to sound like I'm mindlessly bashing the books but I really wish they were deemed non-canon.
ONI causing trouble when humanity's in terrible shape, with a race that just saved them from utter extinction.
Then the inconsistancys from past media to this, so much doesn't add up.

 

[monome]

I blame neither Traviss nor 343i.

they respectively did what what they had to do.

They missed the goal tho.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Then you have ONI being complete morons and trying to start a civil war with a race that had literally just saved humanity from extinction MONTHS before and now they want to arm a faction with weapons that actively HATE humanity?

You know though...If I was charged with keeping humanity safe, I'd probably do the same. The civil war prevents a quick rise to power for Sanghelios. Yes, the Arbiter is our buddy now and I'd feel bad about that, but you don't let factions that just tried to commit genocide on your race rebuild in power so quickly. You wouldn't give nukes to Germany the day after Hitler killed himself, to invoke Godwins law instantly.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

So, since the Halo 4 Jackals are apparently a sub-species, will future Halo games feature the full ensemble of Jackal types?

They would lend to some pretty cool diversity. That said, avian looking Jackals with big creepy eyes are still way cooler.

I really don't care for the Halo 4 Jackals if they are too replace the old ones, but if they are a heavy variant I can dig them.

 

[Chettlar]

So, since the Halo 4 Jackals are apparently a sub-species, will future Halo games feature the full ensemble of Jackal types?

They would lend to some pretty cool diversity. That said, avian looking Jackals with big creepy eyes are still way cooler.



I really don't care for the Halo 4 Jackals if they are too replace the old ones, but if they are a heavy variant I can dig them.

I feel pretty much the same. I dislike the Halo 4 Jackals as a replacement, but as an occasional thing as more of a heavy Jackal, sure that works.

I just hope skirmishers if they return (and they should. Hopefully they've recovered sincer Reach -- apparantly they weren't in the other games because the fall of Reach nearly drove them to extinction), are a lot better than Reach's. They weren't awful, but could sometimes be annoying to fight. Also, I really, really hated the snipers. How on earth does one get laid low with a headshot from at least a 100 yards away while running? How?

 

[Korten]

So, since the Halo 4 Jackals are apparently a sub-species, will future Halo games feature the full ensemble of Jackal types?

They would lend to some pretty cool diversity. That said, avian looking Jackals with big creepy eyes are still way cooler.



I really don't care for the Halo 4 Jackals if they are too replace the old ones, but if they are a heavy variant I can dig them.

Probably depends on which faction of Covenant Remnant we fight in Halo 5. If we fight Vata 'Gajat's mercenary group, then we would probably see all versions of jackals. However if we continue to fight Jul 'mdama's group, it may just be the Halo 4 version, although they may have changed in the time leading up to the events of Halo 5.

More so since in Vata's group the second in command is Tek who is an T'vaoan, although it's possible the group will be destroyed before the end of Halo: Escalation.

Hopefully not, would be interesting to have multiple Covenant Remnant factions in Halo 5 who hate each other. Would be interesting for both gameplay and variety.

Also interesting to note: Regular Kig-Yar and the Ibie'sh (Halo 4 variation), both stem from the planet of Eayn, but different continents. However the T'vaoan (which maybe why there isn't as many as Kig-Yar and Ibie'sh), are from the asteroid of T'vao, which is in the same system.

 

[Tzeentch]

Fuck the guy whoever approved Glasslands existence.

-- Can be have a higher level of discourse, please? Fans wonder why 343 doesn't want to comment on threads like this, and this is reason number 1. You can't win when this is the starting point for discussion.

Just completely shitted on Dr. Halsey with it's pretentious self righteous bullshit.

-- Uh, it was actually pretty on-point in Glasslands. Did a really good job of painting everyone involved in the S-II program and Kilo-V as a bunch of smug hypocrites of the highest order.

Then you have ONI being complete morons and trying to start a civil war with a race that had literally just saved humanity from extinction MONTHS before and now they want to arm a faction with weapons that actively HATE humanity?

-- Their plan made sense to me. Hell, it was working pretty damn well too. They weren't giving them starships, just stuff to keep Sanghelios destabilized for the near future while ONI cooked up a grander plan of genocide.

Are you fucking kidding me?

-- Guess so.

 

[Tzeentch]

I thought they made it clear that when Omega Halo fired, it was pointed directly at Path Kethona which would have wiped out all Forerunner there when it fired to allow the Librarian to escape the Ark.

-- It collapsed the star roads in that direction, but we know for a fact that the production-model Halo's didn't have infinite range, and the Halo that was used at the Greater Ark was not as refined.

 

[Mistel]

I really don't care for the Halo 4 Jackals if they are too replace the old ones, but if they are a heavy variant I can dig them.

Like mounted infantry heavy?

 

[LordOfChaos]

-- It collapsed the star roads in that direction, but we know for a fact that the production-model Halo's didn't have infinite range, and the Halo that was used at the Greater Ark was not as refined.

And is there any reason why the forerunners who escaped the galaxy to Path Kethona wouldn't instantly start working on shelters from the Halo arrays? I still strongly suspect they're still around, just leaving other races alone and hiding. Especially with the Legendary Halo 4 ending which seems to fall short of making sense in any other context.

 

[Caayn]

Humans keep dogs as pets, Jackals keep dinosaurs as pets.

Nice figurines by the way

And is there any reason why the forerunners who escaped the galaxy to Path Kethona wouldn't instantly start working on shelters from the Halo arrays? I still strongly suspect they're still around, just leaving other races alone and hiding. Especially with the Legendary Halo 4 ending which seems to fall short of making sense in any other context.

As Tzeentch said a Halo doesn't have an infinite range. Why would you build a shelter for a weapon that's fired in another galaxy?

 

[Tzeentch]

So, since the Halo 4 Jackals are apparently a sub-species, will future Halo games feature the full ensemble of Jackal types?

-- All the variants are canonical, so it's a possibility. I think that would be pretty cool, actually.

 

[LordOfChaos]

As Tzeentch said a Halo doesn't have an infinite range. Why would you build a shelter for a weapon that's fired in another galaxy?

Just in case, I guess. The halos can be calibrated, perhaps to aim for a straight line with longer range rather than a sphere around itself. But either way, my point is that I feel pretty safe assuming some forerunners survived, as there were primitive forerunner worlds in the Path.

 

[Blue Ninja]

ONI's plan to destabilize the Sangheili and wipe them out is fucking bullshit, though. After everything I've read in the Kilo Five trilogy, I'm starting to hope the next Halo game will be about fighting ONI rather than the Covenant, because I'll be damned if those guys don't need to get thrown out of the nearest airlock.

 

[Fuchsdh]

So, since the Halo 4 Jackals are apparently a sub-species, will future Halo games feature the full ensemble of Jackal types?

I've hoped we'd see multiple versions of all the Covenant in a single game ever since they substantially changed the Brutes in Halo 3.

Then again I also wished we'd stuck with the classic H3 look of all the weapons and vehicles until we actually met the Infinity. I really don't mind a lot of the new designs, but just like when Bungie did it I hate when weapons and people magically look different.

 

[Tzeentch]

ONI's plan to destabilize the Sangheili and wipe them out is fucking bullshit, though.

-- Why? Because the Arbiter is a swell fellow? They're the only organized, militant, technologically advanced peer that humanity still faces. Even if they currently have an armistice some at ONI would see it only as a matter of time before they come into conflict again.

 

[Anon67]

ONI's plan to destabilize the Sangheili and wipe them out is fucking bullshit, though. After everything I've read in the Kilo Five trilogy, I'm starting to hope the next Halo game will be about fighting ONI rather than the Covenant, because I'll be damned if those guys don't need to get thrown out of the nearest airlock.

Why? Wouldn't you want to get rid of the people who could turn against you later in the future? Did you know the people can be pretty despicable? Although I so believe the books could have been better, but I do not have major problems with what ONI did in the books. It seems to make sense to me why they would do it.

 

[Bsigg12]

ONI's plan to destabilize the Sangheili and wipe them out is fucking bullshit, though. After everything I've read in the Kilo Five trilogy, I'm starting to hope the next Halo game will be about fighting ONI rather than the Covenant, because I'll be damned if those guys don't need to get thrown out of the nearest airlock.

It makes me wonder what the new books are going to be about. ONI is this somewhat dirty presence in the Kilo Five trilogy that are thinking by making the Sanghelli fight each other will avoid it spreading back to attacking humans but I could easily see that backfire and a lot of the still religious elites all side with the Didact and the arbiter side with the humans again. Should be fun.

(This is pretty much where all this was heading anyways)

 

[Blue Ninja]

Why? Wouldn't you want to get rid of the people who could turn against you later in the future? Did you know the people can be pretty despicable? Although I so believe the books could have been better, but I do not have major problems with what ONI did in the books. It seems to make sense to me why they would do it.

Well, I'm of the belief that humans should be making peace with the Sangheili, as at least some part is trying to. Keeping them a bit destabilized in order to get there is fine, but ONI is preparing a full-blown genocide. That's just as bad as what the Covenant did.

 

[Tzeentch]

ut I could easily see that backfire and a lot of the still religious elites all side with the Didact and the arbiter side with the humans again. Should be fun.

-- It already did backfire. Jul was just another insurgent against the Arbiter until he was captured, was experimented on with new biowarfare agents by ONI, and then escaped to a spot where he could pick up the trail of the Didact.

 

[Korten]

I do wonder if the Arbiter has already found out or not, since in Halo: Escalation he shows no signs of knowing and is still buddy buddy with the Humans. That or he found out but doesn't consider Hood/Lasky to be a threat though.

 

[Bsigg12]

-- It already did backfire. Jul was just another insurgent against the Arbiter until he was captured, was experimented on with new biowarfare agents by ONI, and then escaped to a spot where he could pick up the trail of the Didact.

True. That happened in the Thursday War right? I haven't finished Mortal Dictata. I'm about 200 pages in and can't decide if I want to finish it or not.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Well, I'm of the belief that humans should be making peace with the Sangheili, as at least some part is trying to. Keeping them a bit destabilized in order to get there is fine, but ONI is preparing a full-blown genocide. That's just as bad as what the Covenant did.

I don't think anyone's arguing that it's morally okay. But from a pragmatic standpoint, it makes perfect sense for ONI. Their basic goal is to be the best bastards in the business. Thanks to the sudden breakup of the Covenant and the treasure trove of tech humanity now has its hands on, they've got way more resources to do so. 343 and Traviss have made it pretty damn clear they're jerks. The question is, what are our heroes going to do about it? What can they do?

I do wonder if the Arbiter has already found out or not, since in Halo: Escalation he shows no signs of knowing and is still buddy buddy with the Humans. That or he found out but doesn't consider Hood/Lasky to be a threat though.

I'm wondering that myself too. I think it's clear in the K5 trilogy Hood doesn't know anything (though I doubt he trusts ONI in the slightest). But I dunno if the Arbiter would particularly say anything in Escalation, especially considering they're meeting possibly years after it could have been resolved. At this point we don't know if the Servants are still an active faction; the reading I got from Escalation is that the Arbiter was fairly secure in his power over at least a substantial portion of the Elites to be able to conduct diplomatic entreaties with the Brutes. It might just be one or two splinter groups left, such as Jul, and the rest are just privateers (such as those working for Cutter's son.)

-- It already did backfire. Jul was just another insurgent against the Arbiter until he was captured, was experimented on with new biowarfare agents by ONI, and then escaped to a spot where he could pick up the trail of the Didact.

Does lead to the question of "what if" Jul hadn't been captured. Would the Didact have been able to capture the Composer without the Storm's help? (I presume the Didact could still have tricked Chief into letting him out.)

 

[Korten]

True. That happened in the Thursday War right? I haven't finished Mortal Dictata. I'm about 200 pages in and can't decide if I want to finish it or not.

It happened near the end of Thursday War.

I'm wondering that myself too. I think it's clear in the K5 trilogy Hood doesn't know anything (though I doubt he trusts ONI in the slightest). But I dunno if the Arbiter would particularly say anything in Escalation, especially considering they're meeting possibly years after it could have been resolved. At this point we don't know if the Servants are still an active faction; the reading I got from Escalation is that the Arbiter was fairly secure in his power over at least a substantial portion of the Elites to be able to conduct diplomatic entreaties with the Brutes. It might just be one or two splinter groups left, such as Jul, and the rest are just privateers (such as those working for Cutter's son.)

Yeah, I do wonder what happened to the Servants, I almost got the impression that after the events in Thursday War, that they basically fell into disarray, but I'm not 100% sure. I forgot, did we see the Servants at all
in the Mortal Dicata? I read the book and rememeber a lot, but nothing about the Servants making an apperance outside a mention.

 

[Tzeentch]

I'm wondering that myself too. I think it's clear in the K5 trilogy Hood doesn't know anything (though I doubt he trusts ONI in the slightest). But I dunno if the Arbiter would particularly say anything in Escalation, especially considering they're meeting possibly years after it could have been resolved.

-- Actually, he does know (or at least knows the outlines of) what the ONI is doing. But as long as he doesn't conclusively know he can talk to the Arbiter with a straight face (see no evil). The books didn't do Hood's character any favors.

 

[TacticalFox88]

I do wonder if the Arbiter has already found out or not, since in Halo: Escalation he shows no signs of knowing and is still buddy buddy with the Humans. That or he found out but doesn't consider Hood/Lasky to be a threat though.

Why should he consider them a threat? As far as we know, the Arbiter still has at bare minimum a few CAS-Class Assault Carriers and outside of the Infinity, the UNSC's ships are massively inferior to Covenant ships, even the ones that retrograded with energy shielding.

 

[Korten]

Why should he consider them a threat? As far as we know, the Arbiter still has at bare minimum a few CAS-Class Assault Carriers and outside of the Infinity, the UNSC's ships are massively inferior to Covenant ships, even the ones that retrograded with energy shielding.

Well we don't know exactly how powerful these ships are from the Dakota Battlegroup, which seemed to hold well against the Mantle's Approach in Halo 4. So for all we know these things could kick ass against Covenant ships.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Speaking of Mantle's Approach....

Did Infinity pierce its shielding with an Energy Projector or MAC guns? Cause I can't tell.

When a OD Platform can't pierce through a Forerunner capital ship it makes me doubt a MAC gun from a capital ship can...

 

[Tzeentch]

Why should he consider them a threat? As far as we know, the Arbiter still has at bare minimum a few CAS-Class Assault Carriers and outside of the Infinity, the UNSC's ships are massively inferior to Covenant ships, even the ones that retrograded with energy shielding.

-- Any ship with a cleansing beam is serious bad news. Given how incompetent the UNSC has been shown to be in detecting Covenant ships (Halo: Reach) they have a reason to be very concerned. ONI certainly thought it was feasible that a ragtag band of nobodies with a carrier could glass parts of Earth before they could be stopped.
-- That's not a hollow threat either, even with the new fleet: ships have been shown in-game to slipspace directly to a target area within the atmosphere once they know where they are going.

 

[Tzeentch]

Speaking of Mantle's Approach....
Did Infinity pierce its shielding with an Energy Projector or MAC guns? Cause I can't tell.

-- Yes it did. It can be hard to hear what is going on, in that level but after you clear the AA cannons the Infinity blows a hole into the ship with its dual MACs. The orbital defense platforms and smaller ships can't even scratch the paint. Presumably they are retasked to taking care of the Approach's harriers and auxiliary craft.

 

[Anon67]

Well, I'm of the belief that humans should be making peace with the Sangheili, as at least some part is trying to. Keeping them a bit destabilized in order to get there is fine, but ONI is preparing a full-blown genocide. That's just as bad as what the Covenant did.

So if I'm reading this correctly, it seems like you disagree with what ONI tries to so, which is totally fine, I understand. I thought you had a problem with the actual fiction that 343i made, do you know what I mean?

 

[Munki]

For somehow John to be reunited with Blue Team, that's all I want.

 

[DATABASE DATABASE]

For somehow John to be reunited with Blue Team, that's all I want.

Me too. 343i please

 

[Mistel]

What shot down Tashi's fire team in spartan ops?

 

[Tzeentch]

What shot down Tashi's fire team in spartan ops?

They were in a Pelican, so it could have been almost anything.

 

[LordOfChaos]

So I just finished The Flood and Fall of Reach, I kinda want to skip ahead to see the post-covenant war world. Should I do so? And if so, which book to start with? I'll probably circle back around and finish all of them, but The Flood was a near exact retelling of the Halo 1 campaign (which was funny too because as I read it, my replay of Halo CE synced up almost exactly with where I was in the book/game) and I'd rather skip to stuff I don't already know.

 

[l Zealot l]

So I just finished The Flood and Fall of Reach, I kinda want to skip ahead to see the post-covenant war world. Should I do so? And if so, which book to start with? I'll probably circle back around and finish all of them, but The Flood was a near exact retelling of the Halo 1 campaign (which was funny too because as I read it, my replay of Halo CE synced up almost exactly with where I was in the book/game) and I'd rather skip to stuff I don't already know.

MCs retelling of CE aside, I enjoyed the marines side of the story the most as they hold alpha base and waging guerrilla warfare against the Covenant.
The Elites in this are tactical and fearsome, qualities that have since disappeared in recent media (see Traviss' trilogy).

 

[Caayn]

So I just finished The Flood and Fall of Reach, I kinda want to skip ahead to see the post-covenant war world. Should I do so? And if so, which book to start with? I'll probably circle back around and finish all of them, but The Flood was a near exact retelling of the Halo 1 campaign (which was funny too because as I read it, my replay of Halo CE synced up almost exactly with where I was in the book/game) and I'd rather skip to stuff I don't already know.

The Flood is the only book that tells the story of a game from a different perspective. I recommend that you read Ghost of Onyx before reading anything from the Kilo-Five trilogy (post-covenant war). Glasslands, the first book in that trilogy, takes off where Ghost of Onyx ends plus Ghost of Onyx tells a lot about the Spartan IIIs and is the kick starter for where we are now.

Contact Harvest, The Cole protocol and Evolutions I and II are books that you can skip if you don't want to stay in the covenant war era too long. I do suggest to give them a try though when you feel like it.

 

[Trey]

Can't skip Contact Harvest. It shows how the entire Human-Covenant War started and, more importantly,why.

 

[rokkerkory]

That female spartan was cute in halo 4

 

[Mistel]

That female spartan was cute in halo 4

Palmer? Of course...

 

[l Zealot l]

That female spartan was cute in halo 4

You mean Palmer?
The single most hated character to be in the Halo universe. She was k.

 

[rokkerkory]

You mean Palmer?
The single most hated character to be in the Halo universe. She was k.

Why hated?

 

[Chettlar]

Why hated?

Because.

She is a bitch. And a very badly created character.

That's why.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Why hated?

I didn't hate her as much as some halo fans, but did you see all the cutscenes in Spartan Ops? One example is as soon as Halsey stepped on thier ship, she seemed like she was itching to put a bullet in her head, and she disobeyed a direct order from Laskey in order to persue her to kill her. There's also no character growth, she starts and ends like that.This post is pretty good at explaining it.

http://haloarchive.wordpress.com/2014/03/09/analysis-sarah-palmer/

But yeah...I guess she's cute. Though doing it with a female spartan would probably obliterate us mortals
Maybe John though...

 

[Flipyap]

Because.

She is a bitch. And a very badly created character.

That's why.

No need to get so offended just because a space jock called your kind a bunch of nerdy eggheads.

 

[Havoc2049]

Palmer? Of course...

The sexiest redhead in the Halo Universe is from Halo 2, IMO. ;-p

 

[Random17]

I have issues with the Kilo-5 trilogy...

Well, I'd say the story begins at Halo 3.

Bungie knew they had to wrap up the trilogy's story, while still retaining a level of mystery in order to facilitate future Halo projects. As a result, a number of plot points in Halo 3 were intentionally left open. These are the most important points, in my opinion:

1. MC and Cortana drifting towards a Forerunner planet.
2. Mendicant Bias saying that he is sending John to the Forerunners.
3. The Gravemind promising that he would return.


I'll add a fourth and a fifth one from Ghosts of Onyx/Halo Evolutions:

4. Covenant splinters, but the forces present in their home territories continue to war against each other and the UNSC.
5. Halsey + others trapped in Onyx.

Bungie considered making Halo 4 at one point, and even made some concept art, but they later decided against it. Cue 343i and the inevitable release of Halo 4.

From a game design perspective, the Covenant are instrumental and an incredibly important part of a Halo campaign. It wouldn't be Halo without them. I think this is quite clear in Halo 3/ODST; remember how many people disliked the Brutes as enemies and hoped for the return of the Elites? I wasn't the only one!

----
In order to facilitate Halo 4's campaign, back-story was needed. 343i needed to explain why:

1. The Covenant was at Requiem.
2. The UNSC was at Requiem.
3. Why is John fighting the Didact?

2 and 3 are not the issue here; they were handled by the Greg Bear trilogy and Halo 4 itself.

1. But.. the Covenant was "finished"? Indeed, and a splinter faction would need to be created.

As a result, 343i needed to justify why the Covenant was here in the first place, and why Jul still hated humans. Halo 3 gave us the impression that things were going generally well between Elites and humans.

And this is where my disagreement lies. Jul M'dama and his rebel faction were the product of ONI's incompetence; their insistence on targeting the very same species that played their part in preventing Truth from activating the rings.

I'm not sure whether 343i intentionally wanted to portray ONI as the space CIA with their signature screw ups, but I wasn't very happy with it. I feel that they could have approached the Covenant remnant without ONI involvement. It would make the UNSC seem less hypocritical, and I wouldn't be rooting for Jul in Spartan Ops as a result.

Secondly, the whole ordeal with Halsey. Do. Not. Want. It came out of nowhere, and it was completely unnecessary in the context of Halo 4's story, in my humble opinion. I feel that a lot of people have touched on this point already, so I won't say much more.

TLDR: A combination of the plot points of Halo 3 to ONI screw ups left me with an unsatisfied opinion on how the Covenant was brought into Halo 4.

I haven't even touched on how disappointed I am on Spartan Ops and Escalation, especially when compared to Halo 4's campaign, FuD and the Greg Bear trilogy. (The former are bad, the latter are fairly good to great).

 

[Chettlar]

No need to get so offended just because a space jock called your kind a bunch of nerdy eggheads.

Somebody tell me what is up with the egghead thing.

I crack up every time I hear it.

EDIT: oh hey, "crack up." I made a joke. Love it when I do that.

 

[Fuchsdh]

I'm not sure whether 343i intentionally wanted to portray ONI as the space CIA with their signature screw ups, but I wasn't very happy with it. I feel that they could have approached the Covenant remnant without ONI involvement. It would make the UNSC seem less hypocritical, and I wouldn't be rooting for Jul in Spartan Ops as a result.

Well, fiction is a product of its time. And the fact that we do have intelligence organizations that act in a rogue fashion to further our interests in a way many would deem unethical or counterproductive makes ONI's actions ring true to me. Remember that it's not the whole UNSC that's at fault here.

With that said, Bungie never really spent much time on the fact that the humans we were rooting for were part of a Heinlein-esque totalitarian space corps. Being a regular joe in the Halo universe is not exactly a nice place, and it's completely understandable why the colonists went to such desperate measures to try and get their independence.

343 is clearly interested in crafting a far more nuanced and realistic universe. I think they've largely succeeded, but would also add that if you're striving for realism and subtlety there's an extra onus for your writing to be tight and performances to be spot-on; they've got the latter, but the former could use some work.