How is it an assumption? If people are playing off of the official game servers they will never have access to the game's microtransactions. They're changing a f2p game into a free game without the consent of the publisher.
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Halo Online modders working to strip micro-transactions, release worldwide
- Thread starter mocoworm
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Conkerkid11
Member
But do you have any legitimate reason for me to stop playing this? Or are you going to keep telling me that I'm entitled?
The game has no official servers. The game has no microtransactions. The game doesn't even currently exist. The content tucked away behind a pay wall is not accessible when playing online. This is literally what Halo: Online would be if the player didn't pay for any microtransactions, exactly what I was going to do anyways. Microsoft is not going to see any of my money come Halo: Online's release. And the existence of this version of the game doesn't change that fact. People who want weapon skins and the like are going to pay for them, and play the official version of the game.
Not even in beta yet. Should be coming soon, maybe. Supposed to be Spring.
CyberPunked
Member
Is Halo Online fully released in Russia or is it still in beta?
TheAdmiester
Member
Neither AFAIK.
There's been a beta signup but that hasn't even started yet to my knowledge.
Its in alpha and that's what leaked.
MrGreencastle
Member
This is what you said:
"Someone took a product that MS is eventually going to release, changed it to remove any and all ability for MS to receive money from it, and is distributing it on their own. Piracy. Stop pretending you're entitled to piracy just because MS isn't giving you what you want."
This is bs and not a reflection of reality. You just wrote something and are getting mad about an idea that you invented in your head.
Modders ADDED the ability to play customs in Halo Online. NOTHING has been removed, changed, repackaged, or redistributed. The ElDewrito tool in question is also open-source, and 100% original code. You can check yourself.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
Some real mental gymnastics going on in here to justify piracy.
Halo Online exists entirely for markets that have heavy piracy. It has Microtransactions because it's a viable way to have a game in those territories turn profit.
The only way the game can sustain itself and make money and get continual improvements is if people play fair and pay for the content they play. Microtransactions are not anti consumer by nature. It's the abuse of microtransactions by publishers that is anticonsumer.
If certain one's are required for winning for example.
If you have a problem with these then you are entirely free to not pay for them and not play the game. You have no entitlement to play anything.
Halo Online right now is in Beta, Running the beta as intended without actual acceptance isn't piracy but it's a very grey area. It's content you are not allowed for free. Other people are, you are not. These people basically won a random choice and now you feel entitled to it. It's like when Frankie sometimes gives away a Halo Reach Games on Demand code to a random pick. That doesn't mean anyone can just pirate the shit out of it because somewhere someone got it for free.
However, Once you start taking something, mass deploying it. Stripping any way the developers have of gaining an income from their work from it and playing it online privately then you are committing piracy.
Halo Online exists entirely for markets that have heavy piracy. It has Microtransactions because it's a viable way to have a game in those territories turn profit.
The only way the game can sustain itself and make money and get continual improvements is if people play fair and pay for the content they play. Microtransactions are not anti consumer by nature. It's the abuse of microtransactions by publishers that is anticonsumer.
If certain one's are required for winning for example.
If you have a problem with these then you are entirely free to not pay for them and not play the game. You have no entitlement to play anything.
Halo Online right now is in Beta, Running the beta as intended without actual acceptance isn't piracy but it's a very grey area. It's content you are not allowed for free. Other people are, you are not. These people basically won a random choice and now you feel entitled to it. It's like when Frankie sometimes gives away a Halo Reach Games on Demand code to a random pick. That doesn't mean anyone can just pirate the shit out of it because somewhere someone got it for free.
However, Once you start taking something, mass deploying it. Stripping any way the developers have of gaining an income from their work from it and playing it online privately then you are committing piracy.
When the game is officially released will people playing this modded version on non-MS servers have the ability to pay the microtransactions? No? Then yeah, they removed the microtransactions.
andrerobot
Member
Saying that you're not a pirate doesn't mean that you are not acting like one.
Feeling entitled to play this game doesn't excuse you for violating copyright.
NullPointer
Member
Retroactively removing not yet written code. These modders are far more skilled than I thought.
There's a version of the game running that MS can't make money from. When the game officially releases there will still be this version of the game running that MS can't make money from. Maybe the coding for the microtransactions isn't in the files that people obtained yet, but they will be in the final release and the people with the modded version will not have access to them.
SlipperyFishes
Banned
Just like pirates to. Take what they don't own.
MrGreencastle
Member
To me, this is a misunderstanding of an open platform like PC. The only grey area I see at this point is how one would acquire the unreleased game files. Modifying the game, to me, should be expected and embraced (hell, even monetized - look at steam workshop and how Valve does things) or Microsoft are going to get caught with their pants down, here.
NullPointer
Member
I agree that its not a great position for MS/Saber/343 whoever to be in but I see that as an inherent risk in any model where a user runs a free client app. These guys are just running that client app on their own machines, not manipulating the premium service side.
It's irrelevant though isn't it? People worked on this game, time and money was spent making it. They're entitled to try to make something off it without having their entire pricing model ripped out and any chance of making money gone.
I pretty much agree here.
If someone takes a PC F2P game, and cheats so they have all the candy's unlocked, is it also pirating? Im not so sure.
Modding to change character appearance and add maps (all while on the official servers for the game) would be fine. Modding to remove the game's ability to make money is piracy.
MrGreencastle
Member
Absolutely. That IS the whole f2p model. By releasing the game for free, you run the inherent risk that someone will be playing your game -gasp!- for free.
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Work is now being done to integrate the Halo 3 UI features back into the Halo Online UI:
http://webmup.com/9f37d/
Notice the "SHOP" icon still there in the right.
Rising_Hei
Member
I don't like piracy of any sorts, but... Microsoft kind of have been asking for this for not supporting the game outside of Russia.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
Except when they are giving themselves content that is premium. That's basically like saying DLC piracy is fine.
All the arguments are fruitless because it boils down to one simple thing.
Entitled people getting content that they have to pay for or be granted by those who make it for free via illegitimate means. Which is how theft works. Digital theft is called piracy.
Spin it anyway you want. The creators and those with a vested monetary interest don't want you have it and you're still getting it.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Yes?
So...can you actually download the russian client from a MS approved website right now? If yes I don't see where the "piracy" claims come from, modding the game after the fact is...well, it's modding.
If you can't download from MS right now and need to do so via 3rd party sites I can see where the claims come from, but can't say that I'm terribly offended by people playing a F2P game with mods and on community servers for free instead of playing on Microsoft RU servers where they could just as well decide to never ever buy microtransaction stuff.
If you can't download from MS right now and need to do so via 3rd party sites I can see where the claims come from, but can't say that I'm terribly offended by people playing a F2P game with mods and on community servers for free instead of playing on Microsoft RU servers where they could just as well decide to never ever buy microtransaction stuff.
Conkerkid11
Member
Literally snipping everything I said, ignoring it all, and calling me entitled.
I already called someone out on doing this, and you went ahead and followed through with the same exact thing.
What are you doing to support your opinion exactly?
Me: "Here's my opinion."
You: "You're wrong."
Why?
NullPointer
Member
What premium content are you referring to in this case? I see this as the opposite - you don't get the premium DLC with what they're doing here.
Seriously. Its kinda bonkers that this question even needs to be asked and answered.
CambriaRising
Member
People are really calling this piracy? Lmao.
Conkerkid11
Member
The modders, or the people who ported Halo 3 to PC to make it F2P?
I'm actually really curious to find out where the community who created eldurito is.
MrGreencastle
Member
In the cloud.
I'm curious, what do you consider removing the game's ability to make money and redistributing it if not piracy?
Both? I'm mainly congradulating the modders, since they're turning the Halo Online alpha into Halo 3 CE, but Halo Online has always looked cool, so good work to the paid developers who will be releasing their Russian game! I really hope it's a hit over there.
MrGreencastle
Member
Yeah the game files were taken down. But people have obviously propagated that stuff out to the appropriate places you'd expect. Acquiring those files at this point - that is right now, today - is pretty much equivalent to piracy the way I see it. But that hasn't stifled development in the slightest. I would say the fact that you can't get it is making people work for it - hell, some are even PAYING for it (at least in the form of donating to the 3rd party tunneling services) - that much harder. It's certainly cool to see progress this fast and transparent with Halo. It's quite the change of pace.
veloxStrix
Banned
Are you 11? Do you not understand the concepts of ownership, hard work, or thievery?
StalkerUKCG
Banned
Because you have no right to other peoples work? The developers give access to selected users. Not you.
Everything that they will charge for that people are getting for free? Like here
So basically you can play this game online and use the content that is going to be charged for once the game goes gold without spending the money for the content?
Sounds like piracy to me.
Microsoft have to make their offering superior, give gamers a good reason to play their version. Valve has proved this with Steam and their games in Russia and elsewhere. If Halo Online fails, make a better game on a better platform with better services and features. Using piracy as an excuse for pay to win trash is pathetic, build something that users will be happy to pay for or free with paid customisation or both to offer free maps. Mod friendly. It's like Valve and Steam don't exist, look at how they achieve it without compromising the core game. The community are a talented bunch and many gamers will happily play if you give them a good game with good features. There will always be pirates but you can make them not matter.
Halo Online won't fail because of pirates, Microsoft will have made the wrong game.
Halo Online won't fail because of pirates, Microsoft will have made the wrong game.
This isn't true. The other (rather large) difference when playing the game for free on the official servers, is that you would be playing against paying users. You wouldn't be able to simply ensure everyone is always limited to the same things you have, so your free version is as good as their paid one. So, this justification falls flat. Legitimate free users in a free-to-play game have a value to that game's economy, and is part of why you're allowed to play it for free.
Conkerkid11
Member
Do you not understand that I have absolutely no interest in giving the "developers" (porters) money for skins?
If I uninstalled Halo: Online right now, and waited for the year or so it's going to take Microsoft to release it in the U.S., I would be playing a stripped down version of what I currently have access to, and I still wouldn't be giving them any money to support the game.
I would be more than willing to give them $60 for Halo: Online without microtransactions, or Halo: MCC.
But if I wait for this to receive an official release in the state it's currently in, I will not be paying them anything, because I have no interest in the content they're offering me. In fact, if it is the game I believe it will be, I will still be playing Eldurito, because it has more features than Halo: Online.
Guys.
They're taking an alpha release of a halo game, they're taking out microtransactions sure but they're alwaso taking out spartan abilities, Sprint, and making numerous other changes.
When Halo Online drops, it'll be very different from elDorito. There won't be "halo online" and "halo online except the dirty pirates took out gun loaning" it'll be "halo online" and "a halo that is as close to halo 3 as possible, likely with mod support"
AND that assumes we even get halo online outside Russia. In eight years Halo Online probably will be dead and gone, and we won't be any closer to actually getting any sort of halo on the pc.
They're taking an alpha release of a halo game, they're taking out microtransactions sure but they're alwaso taking out spartan abilities, Sprint, and making numerous other changes.
When Halo Online drops, it'll be very different from elDorito. There won't be "halo online" and "halo online except the dirty pirates took out gun loaning" it'll be "halo online" and "a halo that is as close to halo 3 as possible, likely with mod support"
AND that assumes we even get halo online outside Russia. In eight years Halo Online probably will be dead and gone, and we won't be any closer to actually getting any sort of halo on the pc.
Then you have no right playing that content. End of.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
"I disagree with your payment model for this game, so I see no problem with taking the game and ignoring that model" seems like a ridiculous stance to take, no?
This is still a moral gray area because it's so new, but we've had this conversation about F2P phone games on here in the past, and my stance is the same now as it was then; removing the DLC hooks from a F2P game, removing cooldown times to circumvent pay 2 win models, or modding in DLC items, are all forms of piracy.
On a more general level, MS/343 have released this game because of the realities of the Russian console/PC divide. F2P is the best way to make money in Russia, so they made a F2P Halo game for Russia. If you want to play Halo 3 online in America, you have to buy an Xbox 360/One, pay for LIVE, and buy the game for $15 (or free, if you buy a One). Being in a market with a viable console industry, you do not have a right to free Halo. Your options are quite easy; pay for it like everyone else, or don't play it.
If/when the game is released here, this kind of activity actively harms the F2P community, which depends on the presence of plentiful free players to draw in the whales. If the community suffers because there is a modded alternative, that hurts the devs' bottom line.
Conkerkid11
Member
I'm not playing content that is supposed to be paid for. I'm not accessing anything that's not going to be free to access in Halo: Online's complete release.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, but the title of this thread is very misleading. There is currently no way to play Halo: Online with any of the content hidden behind microtransactions. The game that I'm playing and arguing for is Halo 3. There are no weapon skins, no armor abilities, etc... There is no free access to paid content.
Right now you guys are basically arguing against people who play games like Titanfall or Battlefield early using VPNs.
I would agree with you if paying for it was even an option :/ I'd happily buy a game from Microsoft, but I have no interest in getting a "free" game that i have to pay money to *rent* cosmetics or straight-up better weapons and loadouts.
Does anyone really want to pay four dollars to rent a Spartan ability in halo 3?
StalkerUKCG
Banned
So don't. But if you use any content that requires payment then you are committing a crime
If they distribute it to the U.S then you can play and do what you want with it because you at that point have been granted that ability by the people who produced and distribute the content.
All those assets you are using in Eldurito are given to players with the knowledge that they will populate Halo: Online, Making it a viable population for micro transactions and thus one to pay for it's development. If you are not part of that population then you are using content outside it's terms and conditions and that is a breach of contract.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Like pirated content, which you're happily supporting and encouraging in your posts.
Being pigheaded to the claims that you're pirating the game doesn't suddenly make what you're doing right. It just makes you look like someone who is supporting piracy because you feel you're 'entitled' to something.
Like they owe you a new Halo game on PC.
You're not entitled to shit. It's a shame your parents didn't do a better instilling that concept when they had the chance....
MrGreencastle
Member
This is the correct mindset and why Valve still "runs" the PC games industry. You have to consider pirates a "tax" of releasing on an open platform. I'm not saying modders are pirates, but when you treat them like pirates, and then punish the rest of the user-base out of fear of those pirates you're gonna have a bad time, every time. Not saying that's whats going on here, either, but it's worth noting Valve's success in this matter and Microsoft's consistent and utter incompetence.
You devise this awkward shoe-horned model into your game that clearly people do want to play, and then throw your hands up in the air crying foul and blaming the platform rather than yourself. Look at how EA closed Maxis over SimCity 2013. They released a product that clearly no one wanted, and when they made no money, they blamed their users (who don't want to pay from their perspective) and their devs (which to a degree are responsible, sure). Now look, Colossal Order and Paradox are CLEANING UP because they actually listened to and embraced their PC community. Not trying to justify, just trying to offer some perspective/explanation.
Conkerkid11
Member
What am I playing right now that I should only have access to if I pay for it?
I said this same exact thing and the people opposing the existence of this completely ignored it and called me entitled.
legacyzero
Banned
Because Microsoft is losing SOOOOO much money because of this.
veloxStrix
Banned
Cool. I really like you're style. You begin by pointing out that the developers are only "porters", thus marginalizing their role and placing them in a sublclass from "real" developers.
You then claim that you would NEVER buy anything in a F2P game. I'm sure that I've heard that from a lot of other people who play Dota and similar games, and they've ended up having something catch their eye. The pirated version never gives the player the option to notice something cool they want to buy.
But, of course, you would be more than willing to pay them if you could. Alas, you can't. Poor, poor you.
And to cap it all off, you can even justify it by saying the mod will be better than the game it stole all it's base content from!
How about you donate $60 dollars to Saber Interactive in exchange for playing their game that you can't play yet?
The thing is that the publishers have the right to choose where and how they release a game. In Russia, it might be F2P, but in America it might be $40 standalone release. They made it, so they can choose how to distribute it. It might have ads in lobby or someother way to make a profit from development. The modders take that out of the equation and offer a free game based off of the code that someone else made. How come the modders didn't just build a Halo 3 clone from scratch? Because they couldn't. It's piracy. No matter how you look at it.
Salt overdose, mustn't laugh.
We have no idea what there plan is outside of Russia. This game was very clearly aimed at the Russian F2P market, just like CoD Online for China was directed at that market. Circumventing the F2P elements entirely, because there is no way that the microtransactions could exist in this modded version because there is no way for this to connect to official servers, is essentially taking all the work Saber did and giving them no means to make any sort of money on everything they did.
Conkerkid11
Member
Where do I do this at?
Nobody is circumventing the F2P elements.
They simply don't exist. There's no way to obtain them. We are playing a version of the game which doesn't include them at all.
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