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[Rncewind]

That's exactly how value proposition works, lol. A consumer will only buy a product or a service to which he can attach a subjective value, not a functional one. Since the Switch isn't a true competitor to the other two consoles, there is no value to oppose.

thats right everybody that walks in best buy and they see switch next to ps4 say "wow it let me play zelda? well there is no competetion here"

you should teach nintendo value propostion, seems like they dont need all this adds and marketing strategy, they are out of comptetion!

 

[PKrockin]

It's a shame the Switch turned out like this. I love the concept and it's perfect for my work situation. I would love to be playing Zelda on it right now, but the removal of features I enjoyed (activity log, Miiverse), poor software support for Wii U and N3DS, and paid online turned me off completely.

 

[GuitarGuruu]

I only feel the system is missing a few key features being themes, web browser, and streaming applications. All that I can see being added in future updates.

One thing I hope gets changed is the ability to add by user ID. I really don't understand why friend codes exist in this day and age. I've hated them ever since the original DS as have many others.

Otherwise I'm loving my Switch. So much better than the Wii and Wii U hardware wise and OS wise I think.

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

I can wait to buy one.

 

[Occam]

Lack of d-pad and saves being locked to the hardware is quite inexcusable.

Also this doesn't inspire confidence regarding its longevity:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...-a-vinyl-skin-or-wrap-to-your-nintendo-switch
(Vinyl skins destroy the coating of Switch.)

And the sides of the screen get scratched when you put it into the docking station.

I'd love to know what Nintendo's developers have been doing since they stopped supporting Wii U. Why weren't they able to get more games ready in time for launch?

Requiring a smartphone for basic online functionality? Why isn't this functionality built-in, like for every other game system? Yet they want to charge money for online gaming now.

It doesn't even have a browser.

Controllers desync because of other electronic devices being nearby.

Pricing of accessories is a slap in the face.

All of this is baffling. Nintendo has been in the video game business for ~40 years. They aren't newcomers who never created a game system before. This isn't a new market without competition. There is no excuse to release Switch like this.

 

[shouamabane]

This thread is a social experiment, right?

I prefer to look at it as performance art.

 

[rackham]

Hardware failure for those experiencing and some over-pricing are the only real failure in my eyes. Most of the rest of the complaints in the OP are subjective, due to work-in-progress that doesn't really affect the existing crop of games, or an extreme over-reaction to lack of a personal preference (d-pad).

Ok but how is that an extreme over reaction? Even if something is a "work in progress" as you say, that still doesn't make them subjective because they're factual at this time and we have NO IDEA when or if Nintendo will implement/fix anything. Some of it just seems to be a literal hardware issue unable to be fixed with an easy patch.



The system was rushed out to meet Zelda. If you believe otherwise you probably think Nintendo is your best friend. Probably. Have no real proof of this.

 

[Staccat0]

It's flawed, but I accepted that Nintendo was a toy company about a decade ago. I really like my Switch. I have a PC for gaming and a Switch for Nintendo.

Not saying it's not majorly flawed, just that I'm not sure how anyone could be surprised at this point. They have willfully ignored the feature-sets that people expect from competing projects on all fronts since I was a kid.

I don't really have any investment in these companies, so it's whatever.

 

[LordRaptor]

There's a section where your rarest achievements are shown on your profile page in steamfor others to see. Honestly how in the fuck do ou talk about shit you have no understanding of and expect people to see your point? "OH BUT POSTING STANDARDS THO!"

That sections not there by default, you have to explicitly add it - in fact you have to unlock it via steam level which is a whole different meta.
People still don't give a fuck that only 0.001% of Civilization V owners deliberately crashed a plane into a town with a port while playing as Japan, or whatever.

There is no "My achievements" page.

Also you seem to confuse my absence of care with not understanding how achievements work.

 

[OVDRobo]

I can understand and acknowledge that the Switch has flaws, but I certainly wouldn't call it a failure.

The most standout issue currently is the screen getting scratched when being placed in the dock, but until several months have passed there won't be any 100% accurate way to determine if it occurs during general use on all hardware or not.

The system might have a lot of accessories and certainly some are overpriced or confusingly marketed, but this is the first Nintendo console since the Wii I've had a choice to play with a more traditional control scheme without needing to pay extra thanks to the grip. I also have two controllers instead of one, even if single joycons aren't exactly the most comfortable way to play.

The online stuff seems ill-conceived, particularly the voice chat part, but aside from Splatoon, Mario Kart and Smash, I can't think of a single game on a Nintendo platform that I've ever played online. I never planned to take part in the online components of the system and while it really sucks for people that wanted the Switch to replace their PS4 or Xbox, I had low enough expectations of Nintendo to not get my hopes up about their first attempt at a unified online system.

As for the games, I don't know how people come into Nintendo consoles expecting anything but compromised graphical fidelity and a lack of diverse titles. You buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo-published games that make up for the bad hardware with good artstyles.

Despite its issues, I'm still optimistic about the Switch. If this truly is a hybrid system and Nintendo doesn't announce a new handheld soon (if they do, I give up), then Nintendo's game output will be focused on a singular platform for the first time in decades. I've always enjoyed Nintendo consoles, but they lost out in quantity for quality because Handhelds divided the pool of available games and IPs to avoid saturation. Fire Emblem and Pokemon on a big screen with a decent resolution is enough to get me excited.

I'm not a Nintendo apologist by any means. Their hardware is usually pricey and lacking in numerous ways compared to other entries in the market. I just approach their platforms with a certain mindset which allows me to stay happy so long as they continue to release quality games from the IPs I love.

Spoiler

Except the Wii U. That POS was the Dreamcast 2.0

 

[El Txou]

I don't know, I personally love the concept, and I am actually looking forward to buying it. But I understand OP, I mean, I had one pre ordered through Amazon, and when I read all the troubles it was having, and since mine was late, I was able to cancel it. I look forward to buying it, but it does feel a little undercooked in my perception. That said, a friend of mine has it and loves it, although he is a little worried about the screen scratching thing.

 

[JP]

The real issue for me is that so much of the console seems to a be a compromise to cater for something else that it's designed to do and because of this it just doesn't seem to stand out as particularly good at anything it does.

Although I wasn't a fan of their last two consoles I've felt as unenthusiastic about a Nintendo console as I do about Switch at the moment. It really looks like the new Zelda and Mario games are going to be the first of these franchises that I'm not going to play at any point. What really surprises me about that is that I just don't care that I'm never to play them which is something that I've never felt before.

 

[marrec]

They certainly got some things wrong. The kickstand angle rather steep, the dock feels cheap and has already left two very small scratches on my screen (getting a protector ASAP), sliding the Joycons on and off feels kludgey because you're pressing buttons as you're doing it. You can't charge it while in kickstand mode (not that I'll use Kickstand mode often anyway),no Bluetooth audio... that's about it I think.

They got a ton of stuff right as well, but that ain't this thread.

The worst so far is the damn dock. I've been -very- careful sliding it in and out and there are already two tiny scratches. This is a pretty major design oversight.

If it weren't so fucking nice and easy to switch (lol) from TV to Handheld mode it wouldn't be so much of a problem.

 

[Trojita]

I'm so tired reading this kind of things over and over again. Greater value proposition... the value of the PS4 and Xbox One equals zero if you can't play them on the bus or in the park, or if you can't play Zelda or Mario games on them.

Um.......

Good for you , you should make a thread in off-topic

🤔

 

[TLZ]

I'm so tired reading this kind of things over and over again. Greater value proposition... the value of the PS4 and Xbox One equals zero if you can't play them on the bus or in the park, or if you can't play Zelda or Mario games on them.

And the same could be said about the switch undocked having zero value to many people because they simply don't care about it being portable and feel the price is jacked up for portability sake and in turn gimped the home console for using portable tech. It goes both ways. You're tired of them and they're tired of you as well. Like I felt before and it looks like it's the case; it's the handheld fan base that is mostly impressed with the switch and it's understandable. But please don't go shooting down the home console fan base not being as impressed or comparing it to other home consoles, because nintendo has labeled the switch as one and it is a gaming device so it will inevitably be compared with whatever's similar in game stores. Your average people will go in and only see games, machines that will play these games and what their prices are. Most of the time they will make the sensible decision of going the cheapest plus valuable possible route, and in this case they will see the ps4 machine having a massive library, and it is much cheaper, plus everyone has one and it is the popular one. This all adds up to decision making. Rose tintes glasses dont matter here. It is whatever's coming out of the pocket that matters more for most. You might think the switch is the finest portable ever made but many won't agree and won't buy it. When I was at the shop yesterday, 2 od the staff said this thing is expensive and frowned on Nintendo selling such an expensive piece with faults. These 2 were your average people. You need to step out of your own bubble sometimes to see what the average person thinks.

Spoiler

Just noticed my post is long, lol.

 

[Jayne]

OS
I agree that it is about as barebones as it gets and that there are some real bummers here like not having Miiverse, an internet browser, activity log, or some media apps such as netflix and youtube, but all of these can be fixed with future patches. It is barren now, but it has plenty of potential and it remains to be seen how Nintendo chooses to tap into that potential in the future. It is only day 2 and it is too early to tell if it will become something ultimately disappointing or awesome. Time will tell.

Accessories
As you said, OP, value can be debated but I agree with you that things are expensive any way you slice it. I personally won't be buying a pro controller until I see it discounted somewhere just because I am fine using the joy-cons but I wish the joy-cons weren't $80 just to get a matching pair of reds. The 32gb of onboard storage is not great but it is a start, and luckily micro SD's are one of the accessories that are not overpriced.

Games
I couldn't disagree with you more here, aside from 1, 2, Switch, I don't think any of the games are particularly overpriced. Zelda is worth every penny and I would argue that Bomberman is too (full disclosure I buy my games through Amazon and enjoy the 20% discount so Bomberman was only $40). The launch library is criticized for having ports, and I'm sure there will be plenty of those, but it's day 2 and I own 4 games for my Switch, Zelda, Bomberman, Fast RMX and Specter of Torment, all but Zelda being currently exclusive (and all of which were fairly priced, in my opinion). I am more than happy to have 4 games at launch and with some promising looking indies, Arms, Mario Kart, Splatoon, FE:W, Mario, etc. all coming out as the year continues, I don't see myself being starved for content in the future.

Connectivity
Lack of bluetooth connectivity is a bummer, and using the app for friend communication is something that remains to be seen, so I'll withhold judgement on that. As things stand right now it's lackluster, but could be patched in the future (I won't hold my breath).

Online
Now, again, I think it may be a little too early to judge whether or not the online is a good value proposition. As of right now it is very barebones, but it is also still free. We don't know exact pricing or what features are still to come. We know there will be a virtual console, and some game rental/online play feature, but not much else. If pricing is cheap enough it could be justified. This remains to be seen and is too early to really make a judgement on (I know, I sound like a parrot at this point).

Gimmick
I don't think the HD rumble or the two joy-con that it comes with is a detracter in anyway. I find the HD rumble to be a clever little feature and the fact that I can essentially split my controller in half to play multi-player games is nice. I can't see any reason why someone would try playing Zelda with a single joy-con (to each their own) when you can play with of them together (is it even possible to play the game with a single joy-con?). Splatoon 2 and Street fighter though, I can see passing a single joy-con over to a friend for a quick couple rounds of multiplayer fun. These may not be the most ideal option but they are more than serviceable for some quick multiplayer. Ultimately, I think it's a neat feature that can only benefit the experience.

Hardware Issues
This where the real issues lie, although I haven't yet experienced it myself (I play relatively close to the console for the most part) the joy-con de-sync issue is concerning, mainly because I am not confident that it can be fixed through simple firmware patches (I would love to be wrong about that) and a revision of the joy-cons would leave early adopters a bit sore. The dock scratching issue is baffling, that this made it through testing is pretty obscene, especially considering how simple it is to fix, there is no excuse for this but with a $10 screen protector and a couple strips of electrical tape, the issue is fixed, for me at least. The underlying issue of it being a thing in the first place is ridiculous and needs some serious consideration from Nintendo to make right. My wifi experience has also been fine, I am right next to my router (which I guess is a bad thing?) and have had no issues downloading content and connecting to the internet but I can only speak for myself in this regard.

All in all, my experience has been a positive one, both docked and as a handheld. I have really enjoyed the console so far but it is only day 2 and I will need a lot more time with the system to see how things evolve and where things go before making any judgments.

 

[rackham]

That sections not there by default, you have to explicitly add it - in fact you have to unlock it via steam level which is a whole different meta.
People still don't give a fuck that only 0.001% of Civilization V owners deliberately crashed a plane into a town with a port while playing as Japan, or whatever.

There is no "My achievements" page.

Also you seem to confuse my absence of care with not understanding how achievements work.

You literally have to play a few games to unlock it for your profile page and other things on your profile. Anyone can see your achievements by comparing at any time and you can see them at any time.


Also, you repeating that people don't give a fuck won't make it true. Sure, lots of people don't but the fact of the matter is that plenty of people do. You trying to take make light of a meta game that people enjoy isn't right. It adds a lot of replay value to games for many people. If you said you don't care for them then that's it but you keep trying to push this narrative that isn't true

 

[Equanimity]

Give it a few months OP. I'm sure Nintendo are looking into adding some of those basic features that we have come to expect from a current-gen console.

 

[wumster3000]

Calling it a failure this early is crazy talk OP. Let have this same discussion in 8 months or so.

 

[Lime]

the $90 glorified USB dock that scratches the console you just bought seems pretty egregious to be honest. That, plus the shitty design of the stand, as well as counter-productive placement of the charging port.

Seems like it needs a revision from a usability standpoint.

Edit: the connectivity issues as well seem awful

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

This was a soft launch. The real launch hopefully comes in the fall.

 

[Ninja Dom]

I don't see how it's delusional. They are indeed doing a lot of failings with the Switch and the darn thing seems to be having a beta launch.

The problem we all have is that the OP posted the exact same thread before the Switch was released. That thread got locked.

The OP then goes and buys a Switch and Zelda.

The OP still goes and posts the same thread after launch. Why the hell did you buy it if you had heavy criticisms of the system & Nintendo before and still have heavy criticisms of the system & Nintendo afterwards??

 

[Kyuur]

Ok but how is that an extreme over reaction? Even if something is a "work in progress" as you say, that still doesn't make them subjective because they're factual at this time and we have NO IDEA when or if Nintendo will implement/fix anything. Some of it just seems to be a literal hardware issue unable to be fixed with an easy patch.

Sorry, the subjective and wip comments were separate, not implying that one makes the other. Subjective things I see in the OP are the game library, some system features (Miiverse was replaced by social media integration, the FC ID system with changeable display vs usernames), joycon multiplayer (I had lots of success with singular wiimotes as additional controllers and these are no different).

Online is the major work-in-progress and you're right we have on idea when they'll fix anything; because we don't know what it looks like to begin with (besides friends). Media apps, other OS features could come, maybe not. They'd be nice added value but not everyone considers them essential, so I don't think their lack of inclusion at launch is a particular failure.

 

[primasaurus]

Soft launch

Give it a few months to get over the early adopter blues, features and issues will be corrected over time

If you own it, just enjoy what it has to offer as it matures over time

 

[ViolentP]

Breath of the Wild is a super dope game. The Switch is also the only way to play it. Therein lies the balance. Financially it was worth it to me, but wouldn't surprise me one bit if it wasn't for anyone else.

 

[HvySky]

Breath of the Wild is a super dope game. The Switch is also the only way to play it. Therein lies the balance. Financially it was worth it to me, but wouldn't surprise me one bit if it wasn't for anyone else.

Uhhmmm, pretty sure I can play it on Wii U?

 

[LordRaptor]

You literally have to play a few games to unlock it for your profile page and other things on your profile. Anyone can see your achievements by comparing at any time and you can see them at any time.

No.
Steam levels have fuck all to do with achievements. They're gained via buying games and crafting trading cards. Like I said, it is an entirely different meta.

 

[christaran]

I have literally nothing negative to say about my Switch so far. If I was really pressed I'd say I feel like I need a screen protector? But that's about it.

 

[Jumeira]

There are a number of collosal mistakes and regressive policies in place that the other 2 competitors would not be to get away with, it's unbelievable that you'd release a console with no cloud saves, horrid account linking and setup, alpha-numeric codes to connect with players, inconveinent and needless dependence on your phone to communicate in game, a core controller that isn't supported universally and prices that cannot be justified. The fans will ignore it and continue to enable Nintendo rather then showing disgust, but as a fan of Nintendo IPS purchasing a Switch seems morally wrong at this point in time. Horrid practice and complacency. Zelda looks so good though but it pains me to see this level of negligence.

 

[Ninja Dom]

Uhhmmm, pretty sure I can play it on Wii U?

Not in the pub drinking a beer, you can't.

 

[Primethius]

The problem we all have is that the OP posted the exact same thread before the Switch was released. That thread got locked.

The OP then goes and buys a Switch and Zelda.

The OP still goes and posts the same thread after launch. Why the hell did you buy it if you had heavy criticisms of the system & Nintendo before and still have heavy criticisms of the system & Nintendo afterwards??

You can have criticism for something you buy. I plan on buying a Switch and I have plenty of criticisms of it. I own a PS4 and a gaming PC and I have plenty of criticisms for those platforms that I'd like addressed.

 

[gatti-man]

Sorry OP. Maybe I'm in the minority but the switch launch experience is 1000 times better than the Wii U launch experience. And the hardware actually seems quality unlike the wiiu. Launch hardware is launch hardware, compare launches and you'll see the switch fires on most cylinders for what a Nintendo console is known for.

 

[Equanimity]

You can have criticism for something you buy. I plan on buying a Switch and I have plenty of criticisms of it. I own a PS4 and a gaming PC and I have plenty of criticisms for those platforms that I'd like addressed.

I agree.

 

[elrechazado]

Breath of the Wild is a super dope game. The Switch is also the only way to play it.

Uhhh...

 

[Calm Mind]

Rare footage of the OP mid post

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

LordRaptor, what is your argument against system-wide achievements? In another thread on this topic, chubigans (a successful indie dev) said they're incredibly easy to implement and not having an OS-level solution actually creates more work for devs who want to include them.

 

[Ninja Dom]

You can have criticism for something you buy. I plan on buying a Switch and I have plenty of criticisms of it. I own a PS4 and a gaming PC and I have plenty of criticisms for those platforms that I'd like addressed.

You can. But these really are more than criticisms. OP says Nintendo has failed. And his first post implies that he believes the Switch has failed. Complains about the games being overpriced. Later admits that Zelda is the Nintendo series he's least got into.

But then he buys one. And Zelda, the most expensive game. On launch day.

 

[helium121]

I think people need to realize this is a system launch. Every system launches with some features missing. The switch just has more of them. The PS4 didn't even have a suspend mode when it launched and it even just recently received folders.

Stating that the system has failed one day after launch is just being a little dramatic especially without mentioning what it does right. The OS is speedy, especially compared to their previous system. It launched with the highest reviewed game ever. It's also the home console that can be taken on the go just by removing it from the dock.

I also don't have a problem with the launch games. As stated before, Zelda is truly a system seller. 1,2 Switch may not be for everyone but it seems to be a hit with casual gamers that I know. It has three quality downloadable titles across different genres; puzzle, platformer, and racing with many more quality indie titles coming. Even the future lineup looks promising. MarioKart, Arms, Splatoon 2, Fire Emblem Warriors, Xenoblade, and 3D Mario in the first year. Yeah it doesn't have the 3rd party AAA titles but nobody is buying a Nintendo console for those titles anyways.

 

[Pancake Mix]

Accessories
You can debate worth but there's no denying the fact that the accessories are expensive. The feeling is amplified due to competitor items being priced much lower. Everything feels like an additional fee, from Nintendo not including a charging grip or mic with the Switch, needing the HORI Compact Playstand to charge and play your Switch in tabletop mode, a screen protector so your screen doesn't scratch while docked, to being forced to buy a microSDXC card sooner rather than later due to the paltry 25GB of available storage.

Physical games are incredible accessible. That 25 GB will go far if you buy physical.

 

[LordRaptor]

LordRaptor, what is your argument against system-wide achievements?

Their mandatory inclusion.
You don't need compulsory systemic achievements as part of cert to have achievements if you want to have achievements - there are free multiplatform open source solutions available for any indie dev.

If you don't want achievements, you are excluded from the Xbox and Playstation platforms.

 

[AESplusF]

You can. But these really are more than criticisms. OP says Nintendo has failed. And his first post implies that he believes the Switch has failed. Complains about the games being overpriced. Later admits that Zelda is the Nintendo series he's least got into.

But then he buys one. And Zelda, the most expensive game. On launch day.

You obviously don't know what you're talking about, they're charging 60$ for a bunch of different games, some which are not really worth half that price.

1, 2, Switch is full price and it's basically a shittier Wii sports, might I remind you that every Wii came with Wii Sports for free....

 

[Jeremy]

It's definitely not for me. Very confusing launch and product and hopefully I can get one in the future. Returned the one I got at launch.

 

[pixellated_man]

Crazy how many posters got themselves banned on the first page of this thread, lol. Even crazier is the fact that most of the OP's points are not even controversial to elicit such a strong reaction.

 

[notaskwid]

Their mandatory inclusion.
You don't need compulsory systemic achievements as part of cert to have achievements if you want to have achievements - there are free multiplatform open source solutions available for any indie dev.

If you don't want achievements, you are excluded from the Xbox and Playstation platforms.

And if you want them you are excluded from Nintendo platforms and most games on Steam and other platforms. Now what?

 

[SciencePilot]

Selfishly, I hope there is a negative reception to the launch. It will make it easier for me to find a Switch >_<; Then I hope Nintendo improves on these issues later for people that care about them.

 

[Nosgotham]

I am very impressed with the switch especially how fucking fast and responsive the OS is. It's pretty spectacular.

 

[malboroking]

Breath of the Wild is a super dope game. The Switch is also the only way to play it. Therein lies the balance. Financially it was worth it to me, but wouldn't surprise me one bit if it wasn't for anyone else.

It literally isn't the only way to play it.

 

[Square Triangle]

How many times are you going to make this thread?

Probably as long as Nintendo continues to bottom feed old features

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

Their mandatory inclusion.
You don't need compulsory systemic achievements as part of cert to have achievements if you want to have achievements - there are free multiplatform open source solutions available for any indie dev.

If you don't want achievements, you are excluded from the Xbox and Playstation platforms.

Is this out of concern for devs? As far as I know there's no massive outcry from them that this is a problem. Hell, Jonathon Blow doesn't like achievements so he put two in his game. And Microsoft/Sony had no problem with that.

Sure, last gen Microsoft was a bit too authoritarian about Xbox Live integration among Arcade titles, but that time has passed. The benefits of a unified system far outweigh the burden on the devs.

 

[LordRaptor]

And if you want them you are excluded from Nintendo platforms and most games on Steam and other platforms. Now what?

Except you're not, because there are games on every platform that have achievements...?

e:

Hell, Jonathon Blow doesn't like achievements so he put two in his game. And Microsoft/Sony had no problem with that.

The Witness has more than 2 achievements on Xbox One because - as you say, even though he only wanted two - there are very specific guidelines that must be followed or a game is not allowed to be released.