Wildebeest
Member
Many people act like their personal self worth and mood depends on rich and famous people having a good or bad day. Focus more on your own lives and personal freedom.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
I don't care about game devs
- Thread starter MagusMajul
- Start date
Gonzito
Gold Member
Based
Videogame industry is the only industry where it's completely normalized that you pay top dollar for a subpar, often incomplete or straight up broken product while at the same time being bombarded with sob stories about "brutal working conditions" and "we really tried our best but making games is difficult" and "sheesh there is so much pressure" and "making games is super expensive and completely unsustainable. Anyway look how we are rendering every face hair on this main character using realtime physics you literally only see when you use photo mode and zoom in 100000%" and "we censored that cleavage after outrage on Reddit and now our game sold like shit, how can this be?".
So many dev studios have completely lost the plot of what they're supposed to be doing.
Fuck off.
I actually completely disagree with you on this one.
This take feels extremely cynical, nihilistic and pessimistic.
Developers are people, not machines. Many talented developers are losing their jobs because of terrible management decisions, and as players, acting like that doesn't matter is ultimately bad for the industry.
Yes, there are people in the industry who probably shouldn't have the influence they do, and there are companies making decisions that hurt their games (woke activists). But there are also plenty of talented developers who genuinely want to create great games and are doing their best within the constraints they're given.
It's fair to be indifferent toward massive corporations. It's much harder to justify being indifferent toward the people working under them who often have little control over the decisions that lead to a game's failure.
If we care about gaming as a hobby, we should care at least a little about the people who make the games we enjoy.
PeteBull
Member
Full disclousure, todays devs working in western AAA devstudios, corpostyle, have it so crazy good, air conditioned comfy office jobs even women can easily do, and they arent even judged on merit until after 5-6-7years of devtime each current gen game gets and sometimes not even then.
For comparision thats how boys(often pre-teens) had to work just over 100 years ago and thats england, not some african/middle eastern country:
Those boys deserved respect, not some bluehaired decepticon that on purpose makes game worse than it should be coz decided to push clownworld agenda, and even less respect to all soyboy cucks on top(studio/project heads or even executives above that) who instead of nipping that shit in the bud and train that wokie like a dog till he or she learns, they allow and even embrace it
Last edited:
64gigabyteram
Reverse groomer.
Spoken like a true Ebenezer Scrooge. Might as well pirate games with your self centered logic.
Denton
Member
Obvious troll post is obvious, but yeah most people generally do not care that much about random strangers regardless of occupation.
Personally I do care about some specific studios and people in them that made my favourite games, and I am pretty sure OP does too.
fucking lmao
but yeah it is insane how much the world has changed in the last 150 years. And in many ways for the worse, even if kids having to work in factories wasn't great
Personally I do care about some specific studios and people in them that made my favourite games, and I am pretty sure OP does too.
fucking lmao
but yeah it is insane how much the world has changed in the last 150 years. And in many ways for the worse, even if kids having to work in factories wasn't great
Last edited:
MrRibeye
Member
Looking back, when we played Thief Dark Project, Deus Ex, Pro Skater 2 and whatnot in the year ~2000 who of us cared about these game studios, who even knew any of their names or what city they are based out of
Today half the discussion around Intergalactic is not about the game, but about Neil Druckmann,
and you can't talk about Order of the Sinking Star without someone bursting in with a comment about Jonathan Blow
I enjoy the industry gossip and developer stories, but it's true that nobody was whining for sympathy about how difficult it is to make games ~20 years ago
Today half the discussion around Intergalactic is not about the game, but about Neil Druckmann,
and you can't talk about Order of the Sinking Star without someone bursting in with a comment about Jonathan Blow
I enjoy the industry gossip and developer stories, but it's true that nobody was whining for sympathy about how difficult it is to make games ~20 years ago
64gigabyteram
Reverse groomer.
Full disclousure, todays devs working in western AAA devstudios, corpostyle, have it so crazy good, air conditioned comfy office jobs even women can easily do, and they arent even judged on merit until after 5-6-7years of devtime each current gen game gets and sometimes not even then.
For comparision thats how boys(often pre-teens) had to work just over 100 years ago and thats england, not some african/middle eastern country:
Those boys deserved respect, not some bluehaired decepticon that on purpose makes game worse than it should be coz decided to push clownworld agenda, and even less respect to all soyboy cucks on top(studio/project heads or even executives above that) who instead of nipping that shit in the bud and train that wokie like a dog till he or she learns, they allow and even embrace it
People stopped working like that 100 years ago for a reason. Labor unions and laws made it so that you don't have to break your back working long shifts doing manual labor. Why judge modern game devs by the standard of what impoverished kids did for work a century ago?
Coding, Art, game design and composition is all work. It's a mental toll instead of a physical one but a toll nonetheless. The fact that some kids broke their back working like slaves in england during literal wartime doesn't invalidate that. You probably couldn't hack it working at some corporate shithole like EA or Activision for more than a couple days.
"I don't care about video game developers at all! Make me another game!"
Game comes out and sucks balls
"WTF???? This is garbage!! I want the names and addresses of everyone who worked on this who is vaguely gender non conforming and has colored hair!"
MLSabre
Member
And pay near $90 for a buggy ass game that still needs a Day 1 patch and a few more month to be feature complete. Some even intentionally withheld features just to goad consumers to buy the most expensive version.
They're making it really difficult for me to sympathize them and their practices.
Hero of Spielberg
Member
If you support the whiny game devs you're another woke slop
PeteBull
Member
Plenty ppl work in way worse conditions even today.
I judge games/devteams that made those games on quality of their final product, if its mid or straight out trash then in my eyes that devteam is indeed trash, doesnt mean i want anyting evil happen to them but since they arent skilled enough to make proper decent AAA game- i wish upon them fastfood chain work till they peacefully retire sometime in their 60s, not every1 deserves high status high paid comfy airconditioned office job in western AAA devstudio, unskilled parasite activist devs 4sure dont.
Bernardougf
Member
Bernardougf
Member
Do you have any others hobbies? Like playing tennis for ex ? Do you think of the people that made your racquet ? Your shoes ? The ball you're going to use ?
When you sit and watch a movie do you think about the producers and production that went there ? The writers and camera man and extras ?
Gaming certainly has a weird unique relation with its community like somehow we should give a fuck about the "making" process of the games, always news about devs this and devs that. "Omg the devs of that shitty game were fired feel bad for them please" ... "omg that shitty studio that cant sell games was closed, the horror."
Anyway get all the things you enjoy, do and buy in your life and you will notice how much you dont care. As a consumer not caring is the norm for almost everything.
Last edited:
Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
We've known that for years
That's why there's an abundance of involuntary holiday coming up for them.
Zathalus
Member
I care about the overall health of the industry for hobbies I engage in yes. No, I'm not clutching pearls about every single layoff or bad decision made but a healthy industry usually means a better experience for consumers.
I specifically care about things that are not just simple products like golf clubs. Games, like movies and books, are an art form. A fusion of technology and art. If I just want to consume factory made slop, than sure I probably won't give a fuck. But I want well crafted stories, imaginative concepts, technology that pushes the boundaries. You're not going to get that in an industry that implodes, and you certainly won't get it if your force all the talented people out because you don't give a damn about work conditions. Or god forbid, gaas safe, generic appeal to all games that management types like to push.
Bernardougf
Member
They at least used to care about making profits and selling as much as possible... not even this anymore.
Memati187
Member
100% agreed!Based
Videogame industry is the only industry where it's completely normalized that you pay top dollar for a subpar, often incomplete or straight up broken product while at the same time being bombarded with sob stories about "brutal working conditions" and "we really tried our best but making games is difficult
So many dev studios have completely lost the plot of what they're supposed to be doing.
Fuck off.
Also 100% agreed.
Not psychopathic, just honest without filter. Better be honest, than pretending to care. It's the same bs like asking people how they are, without giving a shit either way.
Last edited:
Bernardougf
Member
Nothing of what you said has correlation with what the OP said ... he said he dosent care about devs and development, make a good product and he will buy it, as every other industry its health has direct correlation with the products they are selling ... you caring has fuck all to do with this, good sales of good products is all that matters.
Last edited:
Zathalus
Member
Everything I said has to do with what the OP said. Bad work conditions or a bad industry are not known for attracting talent. You're not going to get the best developers when they can just go to any other industry and earn more money.
You need a healthy industry, especially one like gaming that competes with quite a number of other high paying ones, in order to make a good product.
You need talent in order to make a good game, simple as. So if I want good games, and I do, than I want a healthy industry supporting it. So I do in fact care about crunch, AI, layoffs, and all that stuff.
64gigabyteram
Reverse groomer.
Do you really think it's just "shitty studios that can't sell games" that are getting closed? This is Microsoft we're talking about. They close anyone for any dumb reason.
I think quality developers who lose their jobs are something to get upset about.
Studios like criterion, ID software, code masters.... Sure, you can pretend their closing doesn't affect you personally but it means no more burnout. No more Dirt Rally. no more doom.
I care about game devs because they make the video games I like..simple.
if they get closed down and are forced to find new jobs thats a bunch of talent reorganized or leaving the industry.
Paying attention to developers is how we get behind the scenes insight into good games and how developers make what they make. It lets us know what people we need to follow if we want more good games.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
I respect good devs as I do with great directors, musicians, fellow writers or any other talented creator who brings me joy and inspiration.
Said this, I'm sick of the message that portrays them as some sort of victims who sacrifice themselves for the commoners, whereas they are the most fortunate guys of the entertainment industry, not even close. Their shenanigans are borderline unbearable and that alongside their overall mediocrity rubs me the wrong way.
To be clear, I couldnt care less for the ongoing "bloodbath", given how poor their productions have become as of late. Make good games, be nice to your customers and I will care.
What you say is correct, in theory, but in reality it's the industry itself that has rejected talent and willingly lowered the standards. Not only I dont feel any sympathy for those, I want them gone.
I can't feel any pity for Ubisoft, to name one, when they treated Patrice Desillets, their most importante creator of the last thirty years, like shit. That compnany needs to burn. Precisely, because I care about talents like Patrice Desilets.
Said this, I'm sick of the message that portrays them as some sort of victims who sacrifice themselves for the commoners, whereas they are the most fortunate guys of the entertainment industry, not even close. Their shenanigans are borderline unbearable and that alongside their overall mediocrity rubs me the wrong way.
To be clear, I couldnt care less for the ongoing "bloodbath", given how poor their productions have become as of late. Make good games, be nice to your customers and I will care.
What you say is correct, in theory, but in reality it's the industry itself that has rejected talent and willingly lowered the standards. Not only I dont feel any sympathy for those, I want them gone.
I can't feel any pity for Ubisoft, to name one, when they treated Patrice Desillets, their most importante creator of the last thirty years, like shit. That compnany needs to burn. Precisely, because I care about talents like Patrice Desilets.
NathanBakes
Gold Member
I have thought more than once recently, how crazy it is that they've become almost a protected class in some circles.
I certainly respect devs that respect me, and I think wishing or hoping for job losses is a bit classless, but I am more than happy to point it out when they fail, despite loud feedback/criticism. See Highguard, et al.
That said, I still maintain strongly, along with many others, that devs were really best when it was smaller teams of dudes, perhaps a few chicks that weren't annoying, etc. Those old dev pics isn't just nostalgia imo. Shit really was better back then, generally.
Now with all these hiring quotas for "inclusivity" reasons, shit just isn't the same high standard, mostly. Obviously there are always exceptions, but imo, these lefty chicks cannot keep their politics out of the games, they cannot help but self-insert, (and let us face it, if a dude self-inserts, its mostly irrelevant because he will make himself a badass lol).
Also the men in a woke-workplace are more likely to go full wokebro, in an office full of woke Karen's. If they could just keep their doofus politics to themselves much of these issues would go away, and their studio would be better for it, but time and time again it is the same story...
"gotta own the chuds!".
I certainly respect devs that respect me, and I think wishing or hoping for job losses is a bit classless, but I am more than happy to point it out when they fail, despite loud feedback/criticism. See Highguard, et al.
That said, I still maintain strongly, along with many others, that devs were really best when it was smaller teams of dudes, perhaps a few chicks that weren't annoying, etc. Those old dev pics isn't just nostalgia imo. Shit really was better back then, generally.
Now with all these hiring quotas for "inclusivity" reasons, shit just isn't the same high standard, mostly. Obviously there are always exceptions, but imo, these lefty chicks cannot keep their politics out of the games, they cannot help but self-insert, (and let us face it, if a dude self-inserts, its mostly irrelevant because he will make himself a badass lol).
Also the men in a woke-workplace are more likely to go full wokebro, in an office full of woke Karen's. If they could just keep their doofus politics to themselves much of these issues would go away, and their studio would be better for it, but time and time again it is the same story...
"gotta own the chuds!".
Zathalus
Member
Ubisoft has some of the most talented developers in the industry. The guy developing a state of the art virtualization pipeline and advanced RT engine isn't the one responsible for bad management decisions, shitty story directions, or trend chasing GaaS stupidity.
But he will get laid off the same. Not a problem you can think, a man of his talents can rapidly get hired someplace else! Well not if the industry is a terrible place to work for, somebody talented like him might just fuck off to FinOps if it comes to it. Same goes for new developers, the truly talented ones will hardly be picking game development as a career, especially if the industry gets worse.
So yes I want the industry to be healthy, and no it's not just facing issues because of some bad games. The problems are much deeper and more varied than that.
calico
Member
Amputating a gangrenous leg does not mean you don't care about the health of the patient. It may be necessary for the health of the patient. It is well past necessary for the health of gaming.
The 'sexual harassment' part (in terms of actual sexual harassment) does not belong in the same discussion as all of the other elements, which are economic/business related.
The 'sexual harassment' part (in terms of actual sexual harassment) does not belong in the same discussion as all of the other elements, which are economic/business related.
Major Insano
Member
Hideous Snake
Gold Member
You don't care about devs yet you care about if their games is fun or not. What a weirdo..
Hypereides
Member
Loomy
Thinks Microaggressions are Real
I am about to blow your mind and save you a lot of time and frustration.
Ready?
Participation is optional.
DEAD ORIGINAL
Member
Kojima has dropped the ball lately, and Alannah has big tits but is the complete shits.
Miyazaki’s Slave
Gold Member
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Asha's balls in my throat?
OP:
Bonfires Down
Member
That's pretty common. If people cared in any meaningful manner they would buy games on EGS instead of Steam for example.
And that includes me. It sucks when people are laid off but unfortunately such things happen all the time in all industries.
And that includes me. It sucks when people are laid off but unfortunately such things happen all the time in all industries.
PlayStaytion
Member
Most online players have the same attitude, it's disgusting and disingenuous.
PeteBull
Member
Thats pretty normal human nature, we dont give a damn about all kinds of artocities that happen to ppl in other parts of the world and often even in our own country, no artrocities happening to any western AAA devstudio devs, they have very enjoyable life, are paid handsomly for often mediocre results, we are jelous of those mothefuckers enjoying high life, thats about it.
PlayStaytion
Member
Too much distance will get us back to Peter Moore and Don Mattrick days. It's year 2026, I'm not sure this will work out again.
prinz_valium
Member
Well I don't care more about them than any other worker for any other company.
PeteBull
Member
Plenty babysitter, kindergarten teacher, or if the woman qualify(aka is at least 6/10, young enough and submits, listens to and respects her man) even trophy wife jobs.
Having high status high paid comfy office job in AAA gamedev isnt a right given to any parasite agenda pushing activist, its a privilege for most skilled and talented ppl in whole industry and its not given once to be kept forever.
They preaching about feminism and how women are equal to men, then here u go, go work this kind of job and put ur money where ur mouth is:
Gamer_By_Proxy
About to beat off
At this point, I just like seeing the woke ones get fired. So if anything I'm anti-game developers. At least Western. Bring on our AI overlords. People thinking AI will be worse at writing or creativity than blue hair nose ringers are dreaming.
Last edited:
StereoVsn
Gold Member
You are oversimplifying things. Actual developers for the most part don't make the stupid decisions around GaaS, woke slop inclusion, mandatory DEI hiring and so on.
They are working on their tasks, and have to deal with office BS, unrealistic timelines, moronic managers and so on.
So John, the dev guy working on network latency, getting fired isn't a strike against "woke" or terrible budgeting.
That said, that's the same for someone getting let go from MS or Amazon or Meta because they need the cash flow for the data center insanity.
GravityMan
Member
I believe that when the devs are happy with where they're at, and when they're having genuine passion and fun making the game, enjoying bouncing ideas off of each other, etc...that often translates to consumers having more fun playing the game. Especially when the devs are themselves genuine hardcore gamers. So in that regard, yes I care about their well-being (within reason). And it sucks when studios like that dissolve due to mismanagement or whatever. Also, a bit of basic human empathy goes a long way.
With that said, I do tend to dislike these "woe-is-me", activist, DEI devs that are pervasive throughout the industry over the past 10-15 years. And definitely not a fan of their cohorts in the media. They need to get over themselves. Sure, these developers' working conditions may not be the greatest, and making a game is a hard, complex process. But they're not slaves, they're not working in squalor and I'm sure their environments are a bit better than a Chinese sweatshop, even if they are working 70-100 hours per week. They have the power and freedom to leave if they want. One thing that has increasingly become a lost art is basic professionalism, especially among millennials and Gen Z. Part of professional conduct is exercising discretion. You don't need to broadcast your personal life story or grievances or (especially) politics to the whole world on X or Instagram. Keep some shit to yourself, handle conflicts and other problems behind closed doors, and otherwise just do your job.
Back in the 80s and 90s, the only time we would even see the names of individual devs (excluding the one or two famous ones like Miyamoto) is when the end-credits rolled when we finished a game, and we largely ignored those credits anyway. It was all about the game, not them.
With that said, I do tend to dislike these "woe-is-me", activist, DEI devs that are pervasive throughout the industry over the past 10-15 years. And definitely not a fan of their cohorts in the media. They need to get over themselves. Sure, these developers' working conditions may not be the greatest, and making a game is a hard, complex process. But they're not slaves, they're not working in squalor and I'm sure their environments are a bit better than a Chinese sweatshop, even if they are working 70-100 hours per week. They have the power and freedom to leave if they want. One thing that has increasingly become a lost art is basic professionalism, especially among millennials and Gen Z. Part of professional conduct is exercising discretion. You don't need to broadcast your personal life story or grievances or (especially) politics to the whole world on X or Instagram. Keep some shit to yourself, handle conflicts and other problems behind closed doors, and otherwise just do your job.
Back in the 80s and 90s, the only time we would even see the names of individual devs (excluding the one or two famous ones like Miyamoto) is when the end-credits rolled when we finished a game, and we largely ignored those credits anyway. It was all about the game, not them.