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[The ๖ۜBronx]

Millions and millions of people figured out how to play sonic games just fine

Once again:

You're intentionally missing the point to make another juvenile response.

The discussion is with the conflicting ideas in a Sonic game, and has been had since the first games came out. Mario has no such issue as the entire basis of his character wasn't centered around speed and going places as fast as you can.

I love the games but the difference between how Sonic is shown to people prior to getting the game and then playing her game is obvious. For some it takes awhile to get used to and is initially jarring. Not sure why people are getting upset over that.

 

[Dusk Golem]

Hey everyone, this is Dusk Golem aka AestheticGamer. I have posted on NeoGAF since 2011, and have decided to resign. I have enjoyed posting about horror games here for years, but I no longer wish to support the site and will be leaving for good. I will still be around the internet, I go by AestheticGamer on YouTube, I make games on Steam as Yai Gameworks, and I plan to go by Dusk Golem on other forums. I'll be joining an off-set of the GAF community leaving to try other ventures like ResetEra (Official Twitter for that here: https://twitter.com/reseteraforum ). I hope some of you who read this may consider it, and I plan to try to expose more people to horror games in the years to come. Just not here.

I hope you all are having a good day, and know I always loved the community, and in the end it's the community I'm going to stick with, not the site itself. If you want to follow me, my official Twitter is here: https://twitter.com/AestheticGamer1

 

[MurkyZebra2417]

You're intentionally missing the point to make another juvenile response.

The discussion is with the conflicting ideas in a Sonic game, and has been had since the first games came out. Mario has no such issue as the entire basis of his character wasn't centered around speed and going places as fast as you can.

There aren't conflicting ideas. You CAN go fast in Sonic, YES. But if there are OBSTACLES, you should go SLOW to pass them.
In Mario you CAN go fast. But when there are OBSTACLES, you should go SLOW to pass them.
In Rayman you CAN go fast. But when there are OBSTACLES, you should go SLOW to pass them.
In ..... you CAN go fast. But when there are OBSTACLES, you should go SLOW to pass them.


How is it hard, like the game can be played through by 5 year olds.

 

[Spine_Ripper]

This Sonic was never good meme is pretty bad.

 

[Anteater]

It's best to ignore Sonic gotta go fast and just play it however you want, if you know the level well enough you can go fast without slowing down, whether to explore or go straight for the goal is up to you

I never complete the sonic games though

 

[FSLink]

Terrible posts. Those games are actually intuitive, you switch strategies so you can do the main thing required to win(block to punish in fighters, reloading so you can keep shooting, etc). There is clearly a risk/reward.

Sonic is just unintuitive for its conflicting objectives. The levels favor exploration but the game feels better when it's just linear obstacle courses that you clear as fast as possible. Not having this crazy momentum, having to walk and jump around just feels awful. Sure you could say that you need to replay levels and such but this is the laziest implementation of arcade-style design, feeling like you play a game wrong simply doesn't motivate you to get better at it. This is a kind of flaw that GAF has difficulty to understand just because "at least those games are stylish and are actually about gameplay unlike aaa trash", Platinum games aren't gods for this reason either.

Mario(Yoshi and DK too) just feels much more intuitive. You clear the level, if you go out of your way there's some secrets to get so you 100% it. Each mechanic has a clear purpose, the exploration aspect is very natural and doesn't conflict with the game's general pacing at all. They still had very notable differences in terms of mechanics that made them not play identical to each other, even though the objectives are similar. Those games simply did a better job of communicating their design to the player, whether it's through the freaking marketing or the gameplay itself. Before yall disregard my arguments because Nintendo or something well know that I don't get Kirby either, shit just feels too aimless to be a platformer. I may not have played the defining games of either series but when they failed to properly hook me with their core gameplay loop(something that is usually very easy to do with platformers), well this doesn't encourage me to give them more chances

I disagree. Sonic felt intuitive to me since I was very young. You earned speed by getting better at the levels. Look at how Green Hill Zone can be finished in like 30 seconds once you understand the paths. Going slower means you get to explore and find secrets, but finding the optimal path is really fun. And I say this as a person who prefers the Nintendo platformers.

Once again:

You're intentionally missing the point to make another juvenile response.

The discussion is with the conflicting ideas in a Sonic game, and has been had since the first games came out. Mario has no such issue as the entire basis of his character wasn't centered around speed and going places as fast as you can.

I blame the marketing. But it's clear to me by actually playing the games that rushing things without properly knowing the layout means you got punished. So you slow it down and learn what's there, figure out the best routes and you play it again and do better.

 

[Snarky(HEART)]

Sonic mania getting great reviews makes this thread hilarious

 

[digitalrelic]

You can skip exploration plenty of times in Mario Bros.

But those are abilities and secret areas that are rewarded to the player for playing well and/or exploring and seeking out hard-to-find areas. Unlike Sonic, they aren't an inherent abilities and character identities of Mario that can be accessed with a button press at any time. Totally different things.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

How is it hard, like the game can be played through by 5 year olds.

In the same way that it seems hard for you to grasp the basic premise of the discussion at hand.

 

[PBY]

There aren't conflicting ideas. You CAN go fast in Sonic, YES. But if there are OBSTACLES, you should go SLOW to pass them.
In Mario you CAN go fast. But when there are OBSTACLES, you should go SLOW to pass them.
In Rayman you CAN go fast. But when there are OBSTACLES, you should go SLOW to pass them.
In ..... you CAN go fast. But when there are OBSTACLES, you should go SLOW to pass them.


How is it hard, like the game can be played through by 5 year olds.

But Sonic only feels good when you're going fast. The challenge provided by the obstacles doesn't make the game better or challenging, it actively takes away from the experience.

 

[AdmiralMikey]

It was my understanding that to play Sonic you "Gotta Go Fast". Although from the posts in this thread, it seems that I have been misinformed?

 

[Nepenthe]

Yeh I get the complaint to those persistent "no this is how the game should be played" responses to the fans, I feel like our lines may have crossed at some point as I was only ever talking about the question raised in the OP, which I feel is valid and far from new.

Even with OP being sincere (I don't read any malice in him or anything), people also need to recognize that groups of people- particularly those that are maligned- aren't going to be patient with redundant questions or the meta context surrounding them after too long either. Sonic has been a poster child for wanton ignorance and shitting on other people for years now. The well for good-faith has thoroughly been poisoned by people who don't even care enough about the franchise to understand basic fucking terms. You can't be that mad at some fans then for thinking of the whole thing as yet more bait.

 

[Mesoian]

There are so many examples of well done gotta go fast levels in other platformers(rayman games for example), Sonic should learn from them.

Jesus Christ, what?!

Did you ever play the original Rayman?

God damnit. I'm out of this thread.

It was my understanding that to play Sonic you "Gotta Go Fast". Although from the posts in this thread, it seems that I have been misinformed?

Years of memes and marketing for sonic products that are not video games have misinformed you what these games are, yes.

"Gotta go fast" was the tagline for the Sonic Anime. I can't even remember a point where, in any sonic game, modern or otherwise, "gotta go fast" is uttered.

 

[Kikorin]

I usually go fast the first time, than I explore in my second playthrough.

 

[Snarky(HEART)]

But Sonic only feels good when you're going fast. The challenge provided by the obstacles doesn't make the game better or challenging, it actively takes away from the experience.

I've been playing sonic mania all day today and this is completely false

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Sonic mania getting great reviews makes this thread hilarious

What does that have to do with anything? Why are y'all being so defensive.

 

[PBY]

I've been playing sonic mania all day today and this is completely false

I've never played Sonic Mania.

 

[MurkyZebra2417]

In the same way that it seems hard for you to grasp the basic premise of the discussion at hand.

In the same way you ingore all other posts where i explain that the premise of the discussion is bullshit.

But Sonic only feels good when you're going fast. The challenge provided by the obstacles doesn't make the game better or challenging, it actively takes away from the experience.

It doesn't. If you think so you should probably play other platformers. I think Sonic always feels better than Mario, even in the slower parts.

But they are mostly the same game, Sonic just gets faster than Mario in certain parts, thats pretty much it.

 

[Peltz]

As a longtime 2D Sonic skeptic, I'm definitely warming up to its design with Mania.

The levels feel like a series of playgrounds that individually lend themselves to light exploration, and these playgrounds are linked by "pinball sequences" — bits where you're propelled along by bumpers and spinners and tubes and loops.

The playground areas feel like sandbox-style levels from a 3D platformer, translated to 2D — so a mix of tight and wide open spaces, upper and lower levels, and areas to backtrack with goodies hidden in nooks and crannies. (I know that 2D Sonic design obviously predated 3D games, but I'm just describing how it feels with the hindsight of history.)

Sometimes the way forward to a pinball sequence is not left to right, but right to left. And these sequences may launch you past (or over, or under) large swathes of the playground areas. But you can backtrack to try and find what you miss, or simply continue forward in the interest of speed, and simply resolve to explore those alternate paths on a subsequent playthrough.

It feels a bit disconcerting to a long-time 2D Mario player because I'm accustomed to being able to find everything in a single run (i.e. three star coins), and also because in Mario it's much easier to comprehend how the level fits together, whereas I'd be hard-pressed to map out Green Hill Zone even after playing it a dozen times. But that's OK. You just have to let yourself "go with the flow" and accept that you won't see everything in each level the first, or second, or third, or even fourth time. You just kind of follow your intuition and find what you can each playthrough.

Pretty much. There's a "flow" to these games that isn't present in any other platformer.

It definitely feels like pinball in the sense that you use speed plus all the geometry of a level to explore the level. But you're correct in that you can never fully explore on your first run.

But Sonic only feels good when you're going fast. The challenge provided by the obstacles doesn't make the game better or challenging, it actively takes away from the experience.

This has never been true in any of the Genesis Sonic games. They feel great even at slow speeds.

 

[FSLink]

But Sonic only feels good when you're going fast. The challenge provided by the obstacles doesn't make the game better or challenging, it actively takes away from the experience.

I disagree. Slowing down means I get to explore and there's usually extra goodies if you go beyond just holding right and jump. Special stages, extra lives (which are useful for the bosses), etc.

It was my understanding that to play Sonic you "Gotta Go Fast". Although from the posts in this thread, it seems that I have been misinformed?

You get to go fast when you're better at the game. You can still go fast but at the risk at hitting obstacles. Much like a racing track game.

 

[Mato]

I've always hated losing all my rings. Bad mechanic, it breaks the flow and cancels all the hard work you put in a level. It could work if picking them all back up was a actually doable. But usually you can only pick up a couple before they all disappear. Mediocre mechanics, mediocre games.

 

[2+2=5]

Jesus Christ, what?!

Did you ever play the original Rayman?

God damnit. I'm out of this thread.

Obviously i was referring to Origins and Legends, and yes i played Rayman 1.

 

[mightynine]

You find yourself going super-fast through the levels, and notice stuff as you zoom by and wonder, "How the heck do I get to that?" Then you either go back and explore then and there or take a slower approach on the second time-around.

But yes, that is somewhat contradictory because Sonic's image is "Gotta Go Fast".

 

[firelogic]

You can play however you want. You can try to reach every bonus stage and complete it. You can try to get as many coins as you can. You can just try and complete each stage and collect what you can as you fly by. Or you can speed run.

There's no singular way to play it like there's no singular way to play any other game.

How do you play the Witcher? Are you supposed to compete every side mission?

Are you supposed to collect every skull in halo?

Are you supposed to collect every articfact in Uncharted?

Ask yourself this: Am I having fun? If you're not, play another way or play something else.


Edit: I play 2D Sonic games to reach the end of the stage and collect the chaos emeralds. I try to get to the end quickly but not as fast as I can. I try not to go super slow and focus on platforming. I try to get 100 rings to get an extra life. I collect a power up if I want it. I just want to mindlessly beat the games whenever I see fit because they are so easy to pick up and play for me.

Those aren't good comparisons because everything you mentioned are side things that are completely optional. The main problem with Sonic is that it emphasizes speed, speed, speed! BUT, when you play the game it doesn't play like that at all. There's a lot of getting hit stopping momentum, sluggishly walking, stopping to charge up a boost, jumping, etc that gets in the way of the speed, Speed, SPEED!

Sonic games are universally terrible.

 

[Snarky(HEART)]

What does that have to do with anything? Why are y'all being so defensive.

Me pointing out that something is funny to me is not me getting defensive.

I just think it's funny a lot of people are trying to say like sonic gameplay is objectively bad when a game comprised Solely of that classic game play is getting great reviews and people are loving it.

 

[Dusk Golem]

Hey everyone, this is Dusk Golem aka AestheticGamer. I have posted on NeoGAF since 2011, and have decided to resign. I have enjoyed posting about horror games here for years, but I no longer wish to support the site and will be leaving for good. I will still be around the internet, I go by AestheticGamer on YouTube, I make games on Steam as Yai Gameworks, and I plan to go by Dusk Golem on other forums. I'll be joining an off-set of the GAF community leaving to try other ventures like ResetEra (Official Twitter for that here: https://twitter.com/reseteraforum ). I hope some of you who read this may consider it, and I plan to try to expose more people to horror games in the years to come. Just not here.

I hope you all are having a good day, and know I always loved the community, and in the end it's the community I'm going to stick with, not the site itself. If you want to follow me, my official Twitter is here: https://twitter.com/AestheticGamer1

 

[evilromero]

As has been stated several times, the themes and general character qualities of Sonic are oftentimes directly counterintiutive to the level design of the games he stars in. That's where the confusion comes from.

It's not like Mario can also sprout wings at any moment and just fly over the whole level to get to the end. If that were the case, many people would be asking "What's goal of the game? Why are there so many areas that Mario can just fly past without ever exploring?".

It's like you people are being purposefully dense about the confusion over this series' contradicting themes.

I'm afraid this post will be taken seriously. You gotta remember you're posting this in a thread where someone sincerely asked how to play a platform game where the main character can run fast (but doesn't have to).

 

[AkimboChainz]

The problem I've always had with 2D Sonic is that the main things you do is go fast, platforming, and exploring the level and I don't really like doing any of them and they are constantly at odds with each other.

When you go fast you don't really know where you're going to end up and what you are missing in the level. Also you are stopped randomly by walls or enemies. The platforming has always felt off to me, its been a while since I've played but any time i had to slow down and jump from platform to platform I hated it. And I never felt like there was much of a reason to explore much of the levels.

That along with other minor issues, including how it doesnt matter if you have 1 ring or 100 rings you only get 2 hits before you die, are why I've never been into Sonic. I'm happy for those who are enjoying Sonic Mania though!

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

Sonic has been a poster child for wanton ignorance and shitting on other people for years now. The well for good-faith has thoroughly been poisoned by people who don't even care enough about the franchise to understand basic fucking terms. You can't be that mad at some fans then for thinking of the whole thing as yet more bait.

Honestly was ignorant to this. I liked the old games a lot, and picked up Generations as saw the reception was good but haven't really been in the Sonic community at any point.

Fair enough if that's the case, though don't think people should be dogpiling the OP quite to the extent they are. Doesn't help when you're trying to get into Sonic to have all the fans call you an idiot.

 

[LeleSocho]

Sounds like you've figured out what many of us have known for years... That Sonic games are terrible.

pretty much

 

[Cymbal Head]

It's a platformer. The main goal is to get from one end of the stage to the other by running and jumping.

There are items to collect for extra lives. If you feel you need extra lives, you might focus on picking them up, but they're not required.

Power ups are available throughout the levels, sometimes hidden in out of the way areas. They will make some challenges easier or give you cool abilities for a limited time (or until you get hit).

Exploring the levels will open up special stages and bonus minigames. Exploring is not necessary to complete the level.

If you're into it, you can try your hand at speed running.

Spoiler

Oops I just accidentally described Mario.

 

[shotgunbob04]

This is a great video from a few years back that sums up what is flawed about the Sonic games.

They can still be fun (mainly because it reminds me of my childhood) while not being the greatest games ever made. Love the soundtracks.

 

[Glass Shark]

There aren't conflicting ideas. You CAN go fast in Sonic, YES. But if there are OBSTACLES, you should go SLOW to pass them.

1. Many times you don’t know the obstacle is there until you’ve already run into it because you’re going so fast and the camera is so close. Sure, you’ll remember the next time. But you’ve already been stopped in your tracks this time.

2. Once I’ve started going fast, anything that urges me to slow down is not very fun.

I get what everyone is saying about these games being designed for children. I first played it when I was a child and I didn’t like it then. I’m sure if I picked it up today I could finish any of the classic Sonic games without much trouble. But based on what the game has taught me personally, I wouldn’t trust ever going fast. I wouldn’t trust boosters and bumpers and springs. I would go as slow and methodically as possible, and I wouldn’t have any fun as a result.

I have always had a very low tolerance for difficulty in games and my dislike of the classic Sonic games is probably pretty indicitive of that. I get that if you die on a spike after going fast you can just try again. But I only want to do that so many times before I’m just done completely.

 

[Vipershark]

Read my post above buddy.

I did; there are no "contradicting themes" here unless the only Sonic games you've ever played were the newer boost games where all you do is hold forward then tried to play Sonic CD, which is a legitimately confusing game that forces exploration if you want the good ending.

So CD aside,

Sonic is capable of going fast, but he doesn't HAVE to go fast.
Mario is capable of going fast (if you hold the B button) but he also doesn't have to go fast, either.

Sonic's levels have multiple paths you can take, as do Mario's, particularly in later games.

It's not like Mario can also sprout wings at any moment and just fly over the whole level to get to the end. If that were the case, many people would be asking "What's goal of the game? Why are there so many areas that Mario can just fly past without ever exploring?".

Yes he can? Have you never gotten the raccoon tail in SMB3 or the cape in Mario World? Mario can take off and pass large swaths of levels as well. Maybe not as often as Sonic is able to, but mario has plenty of platforming skips that he can do.

Sonic's levels are just larger, more varied, and sometimes you actually have to go left, but otherwise the goal is identical: get to the end of the level before time runs out. Whatever else you do and however you choose to play is up to you.

 

[MugiwaraCole]

This is a discouraging ass thread lmao holy shit.

Play how you want. Go fast, explore, whatever.

I always search for the perfect combination of speeding through a level and collecting a ton of rings, items, enemy kills, etc for the high score as well as completing Chaos emerald collection for the perfect endings.

Just do what works for you. You're gonna take your lumps going fast until you've memorized a zone's multiple paths and obstacles. That's part of the fun of it. If that doesn't appeal to you, play something else.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

Me pointing out that something is funny to me is not me getting defensive.

You feeling the need to defend the game through multiple posts in the thread is defensive, even if you can't admit it to yourself for some reason.

 

[Gestault]

As has been stated several times, the themes and general character qualities of Sonic are oftentimes directly counterintiutive to the level design of the games he stars in. That's where the confusion comes from.

It's not like Mario can also sprout wings at any moment and just fly over the whole level to get to the end. If that were the case, many people would be asking "What's goal of the game? Why are there so many areas that Mario can just fly past without ever exploring?".

It's like you people are being purposefully dense about the confusion over this series' contradicting themes.

I see we're to the point of the carefully layered treatise on Sonic-game design, from the OP that started with questions like "what do the rings do" and "should I get all the items, or not all the items." It's fine to not like what's in the games, and if you wanted a thread to criticize issues you still feel are still present in Mania (and in spite of the universal acclaim from the reviews), that's cool. What you did for the thread isn't on-the-level, though.

 

[Snarky(HEART)]

Honestly was ignorant to this. I liked the old games a lot, and picked up Generations as saw the reception was good but haven't really been in the Sonic community at any point.

Fair enough if that's the case, though don't think people should be dogpiling the OP quite to the extent they are. Doesn't help when you're trying to get into Sonic to have all the fans call you an idiot.

Yet your casually ignoring all the people in this thread just coming into shit post and say sonic games have always been bad and nothing else

 

[FSLink]

That along with other minor issues, including how it doesnt matter if you have 1 ring or 100 rings you only get 2 hits before you die, are why I've never been into Sonic. I'm happy for those who are enjoying Sonic Mania though!

It matters since the better you get, the closer you get to 100 rings without getting hit and get an extra life. Having more rings also means you can take damage and have an easier time collecting them back so you can try to aim for another life or just survive through the level.

1. Many times you don’t know the obstacle is there until you’ve already run into it because you’re going so fast and the camera is so close. Sure, you’ll remember the next time. But you’ve already been stopped in your tracks this time.

2. Once I’ve started going fast, anything that urges me to slow down is not very fun.

I get what everyone is saying about these games being designed for children. I first played it when I was a child and I didn’t like it then. I’m sure if I picked it up today I could finish any of the classic Sonic games without much trouble. But based on what the game has taught me personally, I wouldn’t trust ever going fast. I wouldn’t trust boosters and bumpers and springs. I would go as slow and methodically as possible, and I wouldn’t have any fun as a result.

I have always had a very low tolerance for difficulty in games and my dislike of the classic Sonic games is probably pretty indicitive of that. I get that if you die on a spike after going fast you can just try again. But I only want to do that so many times before I’m just done completely.

1. If you have fast reactions you can avoid them. And usually if you make a mistake you don't get sent to your death early on. Of course once you get farther it gets less forgiving.
2. A lot of people find the exploration fun or at least rewarding since you can find extra lives/rings/etc but if it's not for you then it's not for you. Same with the difficulty, people who are fans like the difficulty. It's not much different than Mega Man games that force you to die or get hit to learn.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

It was my understanding that to play Sonic you "Gotta Go Fast". Although from the posts in this thread, it seems that I have been misinformed?

Depends. Modern Sonic definitely emphasizes speed and boosting over platforming and exploration. For Classic Sonic the speed gimmick was mostly a marketing ploy to make Mario look slow (which it admittedly kinda is), but they were never about going in blazing speeds non stop. Speed was something you needed for momentum, like running through loops or breaking walls, or something that the game provided (like I mentioned in an earlier post) as a treat for the player. The Classic Sonic games were never about all-out speed.

 

[Phediuk]

But Sonic only feels good when you're going fast. The challenge provided by the obstacles doesn't make the game better or challenging, it actively takes away from the experience.

Sonic Mania feels great no matter how fast you're going.

But really, why am I even responding to this? An awesome Sonic game just came out, is basically unanimously praised, and yet people here still have difficulty wrapping their heads around a platformer that's so simple that any 4-year-old can play it and insist they "don't get it", yet at the same time just so happen to have a very specific idea of how they think Sonic should be played and argue for pages and pages about why Sonic sucks, and keep repeating that even after others have explained over and over again why good Sonic games are good.

Great thread guys, real good faith discussion. I'm out, bye.

 

[cordy]

I gotta say that as someone who first got a Sonic game when he picked up Adventure 2, it feels like I "understand" 3D/Modern Sonic gameplay better than classic. Don't get me wrong, I loved the classic levels in Generations. I'm just saying that as someone who was a Nintendo kid when I play the classic levels I just understood it less compared to the latter games.

IMO a classic Sonic game's similar to an "open world platforming" title and by that you can either beat it as fast as you can, get as many rings as you want before it's finished or take any route you want. No matter what you do it's right and those who truly want to master a level will do all of the above in the most stylish ways. That's how it's always seemed to me. It's sort of like a platforming "combo video" if that makes any sense.

 

[dlauv]

Did Sonic X ruin all classic Sonic discourse?

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

Yet your casually ignoring all the people in this thread just coming into shit post and say sonic games have always been bad and nothing else

I'm ignoring them as opposed to what?
I never mentioned them because they're not relevant. I've only been talking about the topic in the OP and how I think they can get around that barrier, and also that the barrier has been there for some people since the start.

 

[RurouniZel]

Sonic games are designed to be played multiple times with new experiences awaiting each time. So you might go slow the first time and explore, then play again faster and challenging to improve times. Or you might speed through it the first time and then play again more slowly looking for hidden secrets and special stages.

Most people I see who don't get what Sonic is about are gamers who are used to only playing games once, 100% the game in one go. Sonic is not designed for that.

 

[2+2=5]

"My opinion is RIGHT, and those that like these games are WRONG."

The problem is that people who don't like Sonic often will go out of heir way to paint people who find the appeal of the series as wrong, and then compare it to games one personally enjoys even though Sonic isn't trying to be and shouldn't try to be these things. It's where the, "Sonic was always bad," meme comes from, people who don't like the games seemingly dumbfounded and blind to why others may like them, and convinced others who like them are delusional. Despite Sonic games clearly having an audience. For many it's, "Sonic isn't this or that, he could learn from ______," and people missing the point of why others actually like (good) Sonic games.

"My opinion is RIGHT, and those that don't like these games are WRONG."

The problem is that people who like Sonic often will go out of heir way to paint people who don't find the appeal of the series as wrong etc

 

[FinalAres]

The idea that a franchise's marketing can affect the quality of a game's design is really scraping the barrel.

I can understand people not getting it. Its not exploration in the classic sense. You're not supposed to see everything in one play through, your exploration is very much a 'next time I'll try that' and it's for no other purpose than the fun of exploring itself. In that sense it's like BotW in that everyone's first playthrough can be different, and every time you go through it its different. Maybe that helps people understand the appeal.

 

[MurkyZebra2417]

1. Many times you don’t know the obstacle is there until you’ve already run into it because you’re going so fast and the camera is so close. Sure, you’ll remember the next time. But you’ve already been stopped in your tracks this time.

2. Once I’ve started going fast, anything that urges me to slow down is not very fun.

Yeah well, play a racing game? I don't know what even to argue against point 1. Isn't it a basic principle of gaming that there are obstacles between you and your goal?!?
Hey damn, i want to finish this level in Doom but there are these evil enemies that stop me from it.

 

[Baleoce]

contrary to meme logic, sonic games are supposed to encourage exploration.

Seriously, this.

 

[Vipershark]

The main takeaway from this thread is that if you believe anything pre-adventure was about "gotta go fast" you're wrong

edit- the boost games ruined the series