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[The Dude]

What I dont get is in the world of gaming and how people put a so called AAA stamp on games, why is an action combat game the be all end all? Who determined that? Why can't a huge game release without anything but so called real time combat and be considered AAA as people say? I dont get it.


Games are games to me, I never got the this is an AAA game and that isn't. Some games can have high production values and some don't, doesn't mean that one's that don't aren't as fun and if not better at times.

 

[LordKasual]

What I dont get is in the world of gaming and how people put a so called AAA stamp on games, why is an action combat game the be all end all? Who determined that? Why can't a huge game release without anything but so called real time combat and be considered AAA as people say? I dont get it.

AAA probably has less to do with why Final Fantasy has been moving away from turn based than people think. Why would the series stick to turn-based gameplay when they now have the technology to pursue a 1:1 representation of combat events?

If the goal is to immerse the player in the world, giving you direct control of your player is the obvious evolution of this. Square COULD have made FFXV turn-based, or at the very least Command based. But that's not what they were going for.

I'll just put it this way -- there are many concepts that an action FF game can convey that turn-based cannot...but there is nothing a turn-based FF can do that cannot be replicated in real-time in some fashion. Whether or not you like the implementation of those concepts is moot -- before XV came along there were plenty of people complaining about mechanics in previous FF games when there was no action game to blame.

 

[shira]

I just wish we'd get a mainline FF with turn based similar to Persona 5

Nah, mainline FF is about over the-top-graphics, movie cutscenes and DLC+related content.

 

[badcrumble]

I'd much rather have a Final Fantasy Tactics sequel with the CTB element from FFX. Having to position the timing of your next turn for maximum effectiveness while also thinking about geography would be a great addition to the SRPG genre.

 

[The Dude]

AAA probably has less to do with why Final Fantasy has been moving away from turn based than people think. Why would the series stick to turn-based gameplay when they now have the technology to pursue a 1:1 representation of combat events?

If the goal is to immerse the player in the world, giving you direct control of your player is the obvious evolution of this. Square COULD have made FFXV turn-based, or at the very least Command based. But that's not what they were going for.

I'll just put it this way -- there are many concepts that an action FF game can convey that turn-based cannot...but there is nothing a turn-based FF can do that cannot be replicated in real-time in some fashion. Whether or not you like the implementation of those concepts is moot -- before XV came along there were plenty of people complaining about mechanics in previous FF games when there was no action game to blame.

That was a side thought I was throwing out there mainly.

But it's a game tho, yes immersion is a part of it but there's still a line where you can only immerse yourself so much.

Immersion to me isn't having my party just going ballistic killing anything and everything for me, maybe for some that is.. But at the end of the day it comes down to 2 types of gamer preferences, and 2 types of combat. The issue I have is that this series was never built around the premise of action combat, and why it can't stick to its roots is what bothers me.

It's like turn into the main line Halo series into an SRPG perhaps and totally altering it's core mechanics. People would flip, this to me is akin to a move like that.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

I would have liked FFXV (and gotten past chapter 5) had the combat system not been the mess of an action system that it is. I wish it were turn based or played like Nier Automata.

And before the typical learn to play comment - I didn't learn how to play FFXV properly because it doesn't even try to teach you. I would either spend every battle limping around half dead, running around and reviving my teammates or point warping away (If I could find something to warp to) and then warp break, get knocked back on my ass again then repeating. I know I was doing it wrong, but there is nothing intuitive about the system, and nothing was compelling enough for me to keep at it to learn it.

 

[dlauv]

There was nothing in FFXV's battle system that couldn't be found in most other non-Diablo ARPGs of note. Except XV's combat was miles more imprecise and clunky. I'd choose Witcher 3's combat over it any day of the week.

What I dont get is in the world of gaming and how people put a so called AAA stamp on games, why is an action combat game the be all end all? Who determined that? Why can't a huge game release without anything but so called real time combat and be considered AAA as people say? I dont get it.


Games are games to me, I never got the this is an AAA game and that isn't. Some games can have high production values and some don't, doesn't mean that one's that don't aren't as fun and if not better at times.

AAA has little to do with a gameplay style and is all about a game's production value and marketing.

But it's like "emo," or "indie," or whatever. There are a lot of shared traits between AAA games, so people conflate the nomenclature with actual mechanical description. This is because there are some styles of gameplay that are considered "tested," "safe," and "in demand," vs gameplay styles that are considered "risky." They're games that aim high with sales to cover their relatively massive budgets.

I'd love to see turn-based come back in a big way, but outside of the MMO abstraction of ATB (WoW, FFXII, Xenoblade, etc.), I just don't see it. I personally don't see why FF couldn't dial it back, but the series has repute for eye candy.

 

[Megawarrior]

FFXIII did turn based well.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

I actually really enjoy the combat system in FF XV. To me, it's not any better or worse than a traditional turn based system.

Shame about the rest of the game.

 

[The Dude]

I actually really enjoy the combat system in FF XV. To me, it's not any better or worse than a traditional turn based system.

Shame about the rest of the game.

I remember you from IGN and d1p, I thought you were more into traditional gaming like turn based stuff, surprising how you like this combat.

The rest of the game seems hit it or miss for me, i think the enemies are done well and the overall monster world is great.

What I can't stand is how I feel like the game is part National Lampoons Vacation on top of it.

I honestly wish I knew who the game was catered towards, it is just a funky, weird game all around to me and not in good way.

It's fun in intervals but the overall package is just bad to me. I mean it makes FFX feel like one of the best FF games ever and I love X, but it had flaw. Still tho, X at least stayed the course with its setting and overall formula..

XV is such an odd game

 

[dlauv]

Non-stop one-liners made in succession to remind the player that there are four characters there. Constant invisible walls and blank spaces. Awful quest design and even worse writing. What plot? No real customization of note.

I'm not even sure why I liked it. It's an enigmatic rabbit hole with an insane graphics engine.

I'm not sure why they decided to make the combat system worse than Type-0.

 

[The Dude]

Non-stop one-liners made in succession to remind the player that there are four characters there. Constant invisible walls and blank spaces. Awful quest design and even worse writing. What plot? No real customization of note.

I'm not even sure why I liked it. It's an enigmatic rabbit hole with an insane graphics engine.

I'm not sure why they decided to make the combat system worse than Type-0.

The thing is, ff13s combat was light years better and I'm not even a major fan of 13..but that game feels like a true FF game in comparison, except for the hallway like beginning.

 

[Mesoian]

AAA probably has less to do with why Final Fantasy has been moving away from turn based than people think. Why would the series stick to turn-based gameplay when they now have the technology to pursue a 1:1 representation of combat events?

Because they aren't good at it and haven't learned from the lessons other Japanese developers learned when they tried to make action based RPG's with modern tools.

I like FF15, but that game is making mistakes that Nier 1 had figured out in places. There's no sense in throwing the baby out with the bathwater...though people would still complain if the WOFF criticisms in this thread are anything to go by.

I remember you from IGN and d1p, I thought you were more into traditional gaming like turn based stuff, surprising how you like this combat.

The rest of the game seems hit it or miss for me, i think the enemies are done well and the overall monster world is great.

What I can't stand is how I feel like the game is part National Lampoons Vacation on top of it.

I honestly wish I knew who the game was catered towards, it is just a funky, weird game all around to me and not in good way.

It's fun in intervals but the overall package is just bad to me. I mean it makes FFX feel like one of the best FF games ever and I love X, but it had flaw. Still tho, X at least stayed the course with its setting and overall formula..

XV is such an odd game

Storywise, FF15 just feels like the classic example of too many cooks. Changing stories and characters in order to go with mass media synchrony, splintering off side stories or background info so you can fill enough projects on the side that people who don't necessarily like video games will be interested in, ignoring your biggest problems so you can squeeze a movie and an anime out, even though it's making your already thin story even thinner...

The leadership on this project was poor, I don't think anyone would argue that. The fact that FF15 came out as well as it did is a god send. I just doubt Square is going to learn from this. I'd expect FF16 to be just as much of a mess.

 

[LeleSocho]

Just delete ATB from existence please.
Give me REAL turn base combat.

 

[Mesoian]

Just delete ATB from existence please.
Give me REAL turn base combat.

I wouldn't mind that either, but I would expect Drakengard levels of badness before they figure it out, unless they got help from someone else.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

I remember you from IGN and d1p, I thought you were more into traditional gaming like turn based stuff, surprising how you like this combat.

I enjoy both turn-based and real-time combat. A new mainline FF with an ATB turn-based system (like FF IV) would be cool to see.

Just delete ATB from existence please.
Give me REAL turn base combat.

I much prefer an ATB system over a completely traditional turn-based approach, but I can appreciate both. I love Dragon Quest, for example.

 

[The Dude]

Because they aren't good at it and haven't learned from the lessons other Japanese developers learned when they tried to make action based RPG's with modern tools.

I like FF15, but that game is making mistakes that Nier 1 had figured out in places. There's no sense in throwing the baby out with the bathwater...though people would still complain if the WOFF criticisms in this thread are anything to go by.



Storywise, FF15 just feels like the classic example of too many cooks. Changing stories and characters in order to go with mass media synchrony, splintering off side stories or background info so you can fill enough projects on the side that people who don't necessarily like video games will be interested in, ignoring your biggest problems so you can squeeze a movie and an anime out, even though it's making your already thin story even thinner...

The leadership on this project was poor, I don't think anyone would argue that. The fact that FF15 came out as well as it did is a god send. I just doubt Square is going to learn from this. I'd expect FF16 to be just as much of a mess.

Yea, I'm sure 16 will be similar.

I think what bugs me is this and the only way I can word it is I went about 20 years looking at final fantasy with very high regard, enjoying the games... Twenty years worth is no joke, we're not talking 2 or 3 years were talking 20 years of a series that held a certain core element that I loved greatly. Not just turn based combat or similar variations, but setting, music, characters, worlds... The series was never some Frankenstein of a series that some will simply try and state that it is, and all of the sudden it came crashing down and I and... Why? Is it just because they feel oh its to simple to craft a killer classic D&D style story anymore or perhaps fantasy steam punk ? Is it that people just need the most insanely weird snd ridiculous settings to buy into? I mean I just don't quite get what they're thinking and who they're tryin to please.

It's just the most ridiculous mix mash of game settings ever to me.

Just makes me mad in ways is all because as I said I went 20ish years just celebrating final fantasy and then all of the sudden boom the series just seems to implode in so many ways.