Buggy Loop
Member
I think everyone wanted to see his reaction. It's quite down to earth I would say. No tables were flipped.
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John Carmack finally posts his thoughts on the Id software situation
- Thread starter Buggy Loop
- Start date
Unfortunatecookie
Member
Microsoft is a multi-trillion dollar company that supports a failing business, i.e., Xbox.
ID software getting gutted is just business as usual for that company.
ID software getting gutted is just business as usual for that company.
kiphalfton
Member
Lmao at "you can't rule out the possibility that executives are idiots..."
He is a man of the people.
He is a man of the people.
Durin
Member
It's a nice measured response for sure, and hard to say what the internally it's all like.
I do think with some of these studios they have trouble managing their own resources, and get in their own way than it all being Microsoft's stupidity.
Just sucks because even current id was continuing the legacy of great looking performant games that pushed graphic tech. Even Doom the Dark Ages being mid vs Eternal is still better than so many other shooters.
I do think with some of these studios they have trouble managing their own resources, and get in their own way than it all being Microsoft's stupidity.
Just sucks because even current id was continuing the legacy of great looking performant games that pushed graphic tech. Even Doom the Dark Ages being mid vs Eternal is still better than so many other shooters.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
I'm going to disagree with Carmack on this one. My counterpoint? let's look at how other gaming companies operate. Specifically, let's look at Nintendo, possibly the most fiscally responsible of all video game publishers, certainly the most conservative console platform holder.
Do you think Metroid Prime 4 will lead to studio closures? Did Metroid Other M kill the franchise?
How about games like Sin & Punishment or F Zero GX or even franchises like Star Fox? They're all not very profitable, none of those are major sellers, and certainly Mario Kart and Animal Crossing pay some of the bills for those studios and/or projects.
Yet Nintendo understands they can't rely exclusively on its big hitters.
As far as I'm concerned, Nintendo's continued success is proof that there's nothing inherently wrong with Minecraft occasionally paying the bills for Doom.
Do you think Metroid Prime 4 will lead to studio closures? Did Metroid Other M kill the franchise?
How about games like Sin & Punishment or F Zero GX or even franchises like Star Fox? They're all not very profitable, none of those are major sellers, and certainly Mario Kart and Animal Crossing pay some of the bills for those studios and/or projects.
Yet Nintendo understands they can't rely exclusively on its big hitters.
As far as I'm concerned, Nintendo's continued success is proof that there's nothing inherently wrong with Minecraft occasionally paying the bills for Doom.
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Hero of Spielberg
Member
Those games would cost considerably less to develop.
I think that's part of what is happening right now. MS are looking at ways to cut costs of development and consolidate IPs.
Sucks because it means less variety, and people losing their jobs but the alterbnative is for them to keep shovelling money into the pit.
efyu_lemonardo
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All this proves is Microsoft are bad at running a software business in a highly competitive environment.
It's the sad truth, but they only know how to succeed when they operate in areas of business that allow them to offer essential (or nearly essential) services. They're closer to a utilities company.
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Hero of Spielberg
Member
I think they did a number of things wrong. Most of all giving the developers they control too much creative freedom at a time where it seems the 'creatives' are so far out of touch with the target audience (or what should be the target audience).
In the case of ID, I think people probably overestimate the broad appeal of Doom. Doom 2016 was like a triumphant return, but I just don't think it has the legs to warrant a new release every few years.
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efyu_lemonardo
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MS have no clue what makes a good game. Their entire strategy is built around providing a framework and hoping the rest will follow. Hence the utility comparison. The framework is Xbox Live, Game Pass, etc.
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Hero of Spielberg
Member
Which is probably in part why they left it to the developers… turns out most of them didn't know either.
Plague Doctor
Member
I mean he said nothing.
He mentioned being sad and then poses hypothetical scenarios. There was no insight nor commentary given. Just "Well what if..."
And concludes with "Idk, but the studio isn't dead yet."
He mentioned being sad and then poses hypothetical scenarios. There was no insight nor commentary given. Just "Well what if..."
And concludes with "Idk, but the studio isn't dead yet."
StereoVsn
Gold Member
Don't worry. MS applied for 5K H1B visas. I am sure that's going to fix everything.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
The developers know how to build good games within their area of expertise. That's not the same as running a successful publishing business.
There needs to be a layer of middle management that understands how games are made but also sees the bigger picture: the entire software lineup, the cultural impact of a coherent artistic vision, the social aspects of the broader message behind the content. Nintendo has this in their dozens of veteran producers because they were always an entertainment company and even when they were making playing cards they were in the business of competing for the customer's free time.
Microsoft doesn't understand this fundamental concept because it comes from a history of being an operating system monopoly.
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Hero of Spielberg
Member
What's the explanation for PlayStations GaaS chasing and gender swapping obsession?
efyu_lemonardo
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I think Sony initially entered gaming with the mindset of an entertainment publisher which they inherited from their experience running a successful music label. A lot has been written about their approach to acquiring and managing talent in the days of PS1 and PS2, and that's where this idea is often mentioned.
Starting with the PS3 generation they gradually became more and more like a Western publisher chasing trends rather than setting them. Chasing graphics which lead to rising costs also played a part in this. And they probably didn't see any other choice but to follow MS into online subscriptions which lead to gaming as a service.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Would have liked to have seen them do a Perfect Dark after Doom (2016). It's a shame they wallowed on that franchise for so long. A studio trapped in Doom purgatory for 15 straight years, my God...
efyu_lemonardo
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They definitely needed to diversify. Perhaps they were afraid of trying something new after Rage and Doom 3. It's a shame because I actually liked those franchises (I consider Doom 3 a different beast from the rest of the series, closer to an original IP).
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Hideous Snake
Gold Member
He basically said nothing. Cheers for your input I guess
HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
Ever since the old guard left id software has been squeezing out nothing but turds, come at me. I hated the Doom reboot and everything else they did. I'm pretty confident though if the old team was still making games I'd be all over them. You just can't hand over IPs to some other people that never created them or put their careers on the line for them and expect a successful story to come out of that. That's like Stephen King saying to some random other author "I'm retiring, you're gonna write King novels from now on, feel free to draw from my previous work".
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Except "chasing graphics" was never the problem. Hell...... It ain't the problem now. The issue is feeling as if your highly produced game needs to take 30+ hours to finish.
Resident Evil 9 takes about 10 to 12 hours to beat.
It takes 15 or so hours to beat Donkey Kong Bananza.
It's clear that making concise single-player games has a high demand. It can be very profitable, especially if you keep the budget in check. If the budget gets out of hand, then clearly you're going to need a Spider-Man 2, God of War, or The Last of Us type hit on your hands, and those aren't easy to make.
crackajack
Member
At those numbers that were let go, id should just have gone independent again. What is remaining id leadership going do to with that few people? All probably will have to learn how to handle Unreal. Their engine is probably forced into reitrement. Properly reset just without MS for whom id never was important and big enough. Some inside MS/Xbox might have wanted the brand and tradition and an improved library but the bean counters probably only wanted Skyrim numbers, the Bethesda success, where id was never a consideration.
If they believed to have a good team they should have just gone all together. Fuck IPs and all and just form a new team and develop Mood, Tremor, Frenzy etc.
If they believed to have a good team they should have just gone all together. Fuck IPs and all and just form a new team and develop Mood, Tremor, Frenzy etc.
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