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[ACH1LL3US]

Yep. Some seem to act like throwing two GTX680's in a PC will make that game being played create new assets, animations, AI by some form of magic. Majority of games will once again be designed on the capability of the consoles [Durango/Orbis now] and the PC version will just brute force better IQ, FPS than the console version. The push on Crysis 3, SW1313, Watch Dogs is due to Durango being right around the corner. Expect SW1313-level at launch. May even be a launch window game.

So you expect Watch Dogs and SW131 type graphics at launch? At 1080p? with AA?..... lol, you really think next gen consoles will be able to match the power of one or two 680's?

I think your going to be VERY disappointed..

 

[Basileus777]

Why have 1080p when you can have 720p pushing twice as many pixels.

Pixels isn't the word you were looking for.

 

[Mr.Green]

1080p for everything next-gen is a pipe dream.

Why have 1080p when you can have 720p pushing twice as many pixels.

You mean 60 fps instead of 30?

 

[Mr.Green]

So you expect Watch Dogs and SW131 type graphics at launch? At 1080p? with AA?..... lol, you really think next gen consoles will be able to match the power of one or two 680's?

I think your going to be VERY disappointed..

Two 680's no. One? Fuck yeah.

 

[ACH1LL3US]

Two 680's no. One? Fuck yeah.

I think your in for some huge disappointment then.

It's not going to happen.

 

[Vol5]

You mean 60 fps instead of 30?

Well kind of. It's dependent on the dev. What I mean is if you target 720p then your likely to get twice as much goodness per frame without the overhead associated with a higher resolution.

Alternatively, as you say, Devs could go from 30fps 1080p to 60fps 720p. It's game dependent I suppose.

1080p 60fps will definitely happen next-gen, but it's a nice to have, not a necessity.

 

[AstroNut325]

I think your in for some huge disappointment then.

It's not going to happen.

All next gen software technologies have been showcased on 680 class hardware.

 

[milsorgen]

and you can't have the 67.8% (or whatever it was) reported fail rate that the 360 launched with.


Yeah whatever it was, but it was certainly not that, not even close.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

I'm stocking up on popcorn for E3 right now. It and the meltdowns are going to be glorious.

Imagine if Sony and MS go another year with PS3 and 360 and don't announce any new hardware until 2014. That would be hilarious.

 

[Sandfox]

Most next gen games are more than likely going to be 30 fps as a trade off for being able to do more stuff with the games.

 

[Reiko]

Imagine if Sony and MS go another year with PS3 and 360 and don't announce any new hardware until 2014. That would be hilarious.

For Sony, it might not be so surprising. But Microsoft, yeah it would be hilarious.

 

[i-Lo]

So you expect Watch Dogs and SW131 type graphics at launch? At 1080p? with AA?..... lol, you really think next gen consoles will be able to match the power of one or two 680's?

I think your going to be VERY disappointed..

No, perhaps at 720, FXAA and 30fps locked. That's not unrealistic at all.

 

[Basileus777]

There won't be a standard resolution. Some games will be 720, some 1080, and others will be some odd resolution between them.

 

[shinobi602]

No, perhaps at 720, FXAA and 30fps locked. That's not unrealistic at all.

Hell we don't even know the specs for Watch Dogs either. I don't see any reason the PS4/720 couldn't run it at 1080p. We'll see.

 

[Eideka]

No, perhaps at 720, FXAA and 30fps locked. That's not unrealistic at all.

That would be extremely disappointing for so called "next-gen" consoles.

No, seriously I don't think this is unrealistic to expect those titles to run at fullHD/30fps on next-gen hardware.

 

[i-Lo]

Hell we don't even know the specs for Watch Dogs either. I don't see any reason the PS4/720 couldn't run it at 1080p. We'll see.

There won't be a standard resolution. Some games will be 720, some 1080, and other will be some odd resolution between them.

That would be extremely disappointing for so called "next-gen" consoles.

No, seriously I don't think this is unrealistic to expect those titles to run at fullHD/30fps on next-gen hardware.

I remember StevieP saying that PS4 may be able to run Watch Dogs at 720p 30fps with basic AA.

That said, I don't consider 720p with decent AA disappointing especially if this time they can at least stick to it. And, more probable is the resolution solution brought forth by games like Wipeout HD that was 1080p with dynamic resolution to ensure 60fps no matter what. So, yea, I do expect there would be games whose resolution will range between 720p and 1080p with the former being an absolute mandate for minimum.

 

[shinobi602]

I remember StevieP saying that PS4 may be able to run Watch Dogs at 720p 30fps with basic AA.

That said, I don't consider 720p with decent AA disappointing especially if this time they can at least stick to it. And, more probable is the resolution solution brought forth by games like Wipeout HD that was 1080p with dynamic resolution to ensure 60fps no matter what. So, yea, I do expect there would be games whose resolution will range between 720p and 1080p with the former being an absolute mandate for minimum.

Huh? The guy who claims random shit about next gen consoles lol?

 

[Majanew]

I remember StevieP saying that PS4 may be able to run Watch Dogs at 720p 30fps with basic AA.

lol, he doesn't know

That said, I don't consider 720p with decent AA disappointing especially if this time they can at least stick to it. And, more probable is the resolution solution brought forth by games like Wipeout HD that was 1080p with dynamic resolution to ensure 60fps no matter what. So, yea, I do expect there would be games whose resolution will range between 720p and 1080p with the former being an absolute mandate for minimum.

The resolution remains to be seen. Though, Avatar (the movie) at 720p shits all over any game on PC at any resolution. Sitting 8' away from my 55" HDTV, the difference between 720p and 1080p is negligible. AA too, but I can still tell which games suffer worse. Frame-rate and screen-tearing is the most noticeable.

 

[gatti-man]

Hell we don't even know the specs for Watch Dogs either. I don't see any reason the PS4/720 couldn't run it at 1080p. We'll see.

I agree. I think people are so stuck in the PC is almighty mindset they forget that PC has to jump through console hoops more often than not and this console upgrade will show far more than the average PC upgrade.

I'm expecting full quality 1080p watchdogs at a minimum locked 30fps at launch and for it to go up from there.

 

[Mr.Green]

Well kind of. It's dependent on the dev. What I mean is if you target 720p then your likely to get twice as much goodness per frame without the overhead associated with a higher resolution.

Alternatively, as you say, Devs could go from 30fps 1080p to 60fps 720p. It's game dependent I suppose.

1080p 60fps will definitely happen next-gen, but it's a nice to have, not a necessity.

I get what you mean but you were confusing detail with pixels though.

Anyway, I'd take 60 fps over additional polygons personally. If I ruled the world, or at least MS, I'd make 60fps@1080p mandatory­. I don't wanna hear your lame excuses. Just do it.

 

[Majanew]

I'll pretty much guarantee you that Forza Motorsport 5 will be 1080p/60fps.

 

[KageMaru]

Yes, there are rumors suggesting it's gonna be a customized solution. If MS really decided to go with AMD, they must have very good reasons.

Well, the rumor was about the CPU being a Power A2 derivate.

I would imagine both companies are going with AMD because they can offer the best price per performance. Other factors could be chip size, feature-set (A2 is in-order IIRC which I believe they would want to move away from), company resources (how much resources can be directed to MS' or Sony's needs), etc.

It's a trick because the word used to describe it is not accurate. You don't have a unified ecosystem if you need a specific device to access specific content. It's basically the same as calling a data plan "Unlimited" then setting limits based on fair use. It's not truly unlimited, it's not truly unified. Hence, marketing trick.

You're taking the term unification in a literal sense when it could mean many things.

Again what you're asking for is unrealistic and makes absolutely no business sense. So I'm not even sure why you're making this argument.

 

[gaming_noob]

I'll pretty much guarantee you that Forza Motorsport 5 will be 1080p/60fps.

No doubt. But their shaders and lighting has always been their biggest issue in looking realistic.

 

[BigTnaples]

No doubt. But their shaders and lighting has always been their biggest issue in looking realistic.

Until Forza 4. That game looks amazing. And to think that it runs at 60fps and 120fps physics model is insane.


Forza 5 and GT6 on next gen consoles will be very close to photo realistic.

All those photomode and downsampled Gifs of those games will be outdone by in game graphics.


It will be glorious.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

The resolution remains to be seen. Though, Avatar (the movie) at 720p shits all over any game on PC at any resolution. Sitting 8' away from my 55" HDTV, the difference between 720p and 1080p is negligible. AA too, but I can still tell which games suffer worse. Frame-rate and screen-tearing is the most noticeable.

Exactly. For next gen consoles I think resolution is will be one of the first compromises. Most users sit away from their TVs which makes the differences negligible.

 

[KageMaru]

There won't be a standard resolution. Some games will be 720, some 1080, and other will be some odd resolution between them.

Yup. I think it was Durante that mentioned this before, but I see dynamic frame buffers becoming more popular next gen. Something like 1920x1080 scaling down to 1280x1080 under load for example.

That would be extremely disappointing for so called "next-gen" consoles.

No, seriously I don't think this is unrealistic to expect those titles to run at fullHD/30fps on next-gen hardware.

I think it may be unrealistic. I just don't see 1080p being that big of a deal next gen. There's far more to a game's presentation than the amount of pixels being pushed on the screen. I could be wrong though and we'll see games like Watch Dogs at 1080p.

I'm expecting full quality 1080p watchdogs at a minimum locked 30fps at launch and for it to go up from there.

If anything, resolutions will likely go down as the generation continues.

Until Forza 4. That game looks amazing. And to think that it runs at 60fps and 120fps physics model is insane.


Forza 5 and GT6 on next gen consoles will be very close to photo realistic.

All those photomode and downsampled Gifs of those games will be outdone by in game graphics.


It will be glorious.

Actually it runs at 360fps. =p

I agree though, I can't wait to see Forza and GT on next gen hardware.

 

[BigTnaples]

Exactly. For next gen consoles I think resolution is will be one of the first compromises. Most users sit away from their TVs which makes the differences negligible.

While I agree that resolution will be a common compromise, and I predict most games will maintain 720p while we get slightly more 1080p titles than this gen... The difference is by no means negligible. Playing a game on my TV at 720p, and playing the same game on PC at 1080p, and the difference is very noticeable. And this is sitting an average distance from the TV in an average sized living room.

 

[Reiko]

No doubt. But their shaders and lighting has always been their biggest issue in looking realistic.

Forza 4 looks photorealistic.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

While I agree that resolution will be a common compromise, and I predict most games will maintain 720p while we get slightly more 1080p titles than this gen... The difference is by no means negligible. Playing a game on my TV at 720p, and playing the same game on PC at 1080p, and the difference is very noticeable. And this is sitting an average distance from the TV in an average sized living room.

Thanks. I agree, 720 will be the minimum, which most console games achieve today.

To be honest, I haven't done any side by side comparisons like yourself. Were there any other differences like AA, etc between the games? I was mostly referring to the chart on this webpage. I suspect you can see a difference, but the difference won't be worth the performance cost for many devs. It should be interesting.

 

[gaming_noob]

[/IMG]

Forza 4 looks photorealistic.

Sorry, I don't agree with that. There's just something off...maybe it's the helmet on the driver. However, I'm confident they can achieve near photo realism on NextBox.

 

[blu]

Forza 4 looks photorealistic.

At first glance only. The total absence of self-reflectance rats it out. Same holds true for GT5's photo mode, BTW.

 

[AzaK]

they are? everyone's already seen the ue4 demo, watchdogs, star wars, square agnis, that's the ballpark we're expecting with ps4/xb3 and that's what we'll be getting.
nintendo, once again, chose to stay out of the tech race but i have a feeling that's gonna bite them in the ass in 2-3 years.

They are running a risk of Wii again. Good first few years then drought sets in. This time they have traditional controls and architecture that's more port friendly (read, modern) but there is a definite risk of two things.

Being so outclassed power wise that devs can't easily downport their games from 720/PS4
Publishers taking the view yet again than Nintendo's machine is 'different' and so not putting their mainline games on it.

Part of me is wondering if Nintendo is expecting this and this is why they seem to be doubling down on Japanese developers like Platinum.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

Sorry, I don't agree with that. There's just something off...maybe it's the helmet on the driver. However, I'm confident they can achieve near photo realism on NextBox.

The headlights almost always look off to me.

Anyhoo, I'm interested to see how next gen Forza/GT look during actual real-time gameplay.

 

[BigTnaples]

At first glance only. The total absence of self-reflectance rats it out. Same holds true for GT5's photo mode, BTW.

Clarify self reflectance?

Thanks. I agree, 720 will be the minimum, which most console games achieve today.

To be honest, I haven't done any side by side comparisons like yourself. Were there any other differences like AA, etc between the games? I was mostly referring to the chart on this webpage. I suspect you can see a difference, but the difference won't be worth the performance cost for many devs. It should be interesting.

Well usually I do have AA bumped up, but even when it's disabled the difference is noticeable. In fact that's one of the benefits. Higher resolution you go, the less need there is for AA.

In general though, UI's and Text look more crisp, there is more fine detail visible in texture work, scratches in armor, sand, particle effects, etc...


If I had the option(other than being on PC), all games would be 1080p. That said, I will be perfectly fine playing 720p games with a decent AA solution on consoles. I would take preference to better graphical effects over resolution for my console exclusives. I would also rather 30fps over 60fps with more graphical fidelity for console exclusives. Everything else I can play on my PC at 60fps 1080p with AA AF etc etc.

 

[Reiko]

Sorry, I don't agree with that. There's just something off...maybe it's the helmet on the driver. However, I'm confident they can achieve near photo realism on NextBox.

So this doesn't look real?

 

[SSM25]

So you expect Watch Dogs and SW131 type graphics at launch? At 1080p? with AA?..... lol, you really think next gen consoles will be able to match the power of one or two 680's?

I think your going to be VERY disappointed..

Wasn't SW1313 running on three 680s at E3?

So I believe x720 might have three of those

 

[gatti-man]

Yup. I think it was Durante that mentioned this before, but I see dynamic frame buffers becoming more popular next gen. Something like 1920x1080 scaling down to 1280x1080 under load for example.



I think it may be unrealistic. I just don't see 1080p being that big of a deal next gen. There's far more to a game's presentation than the amount of pixels being pushed on the screen. I could be wrong though and we'll see games like Watch Dogs at 1080p.



If anything, resolutions will likely go down as the generation continues.



Actually it runs at 360fps. =p

I agree though, I can't wait to see Forza and GT on next gen hardware.

I'm sorry I meant graphic quality will go up from launch not resolution. I totally agree we will see high res, PC like ports at launch and then custom lower res stuff in the future.

 

[Dark_AnNiaLatOr]

So this doesn't look real?

So, is this basically ray tracing within a small room?

 

[Reiko]

So, is this basically ray tracing within a small room?

There is no ray tracing in Forza 4. lol

 

[Dark_AnNiaLatOr]

There is no ray tracing in Forza 4. lol

Yea lol, but I thought maybe in the photo mode it was possible, since this room looks so small.

 

[Majanew]

Wasn't SW1313 running on three 680s at E3?

So I believe x720 might have three of those

No. It was running on one. As were Watch Dogs, UE4, Agni's Philosophy.

 

[BigTnaples]

No. It was running on one. As were Watch Dogs, UE4, Agni's Philosophy.

Also Samaritan the second time around was a single 580 or 680.

 

[Majanew]

Also Samaritan the second time around was a single 580 or 680.

Yep. Went from three 580's to one 680. Also, switched to FXAA.

http://international.download.nvidi.../GDC2012/Samaritan-MSAAFXAA-Comparison-1.html

 

[Reiko]

Yep. Went from three 580's to one 680.

Just another hint that the stuff we were seeing was severely unoptimized.

 

[Eideka]

No. It was running on one. As were Watch Dogs, UE4, Agni's Philosophy.

No, SW1313 was 3 GTX680 but of course that does not necessarily mean they were needed and I don't see how this requires such horsepower.

http://www.pcgamer.com/previews/star-wars-1313-preview/

And at expense to your wallet. The build we saw kept a steady 30fps… running on a rig with three Nvidia GTX 680s inside. There’s years of optimisation to come, but expect this to be the first of a new wave of games to finally challenge your PC.

http://www.edge-online.com/features/lucasarts-new-hope-star-wars-1313-offers-a-glimpse-of-the-next-generation-through-hollywood-cg-talent/

but concedes that the PC running the E3 build in realtime is powered by three Nvidia GeForce GTX 680s

By the way the game has been confirmed to land on PC, it was not only a demonstration platform.

 

[Reiko]

No, SW1313 was 3 GTX680 but of course that does not necessarily mean they were needed.

http://www.pcgamer.com/previews/star-wars-1313-preview/



By the way the game has been confirmed to land on PC, it was not only a demonstration platform.

With a quote like that, we can expect lots of newbie PC gamers to cry that their next gen games aren't easy to target 60fps at ridiculously high resolutions.

 

[SSM25]

No. It was running on one. As were Watch Dogs, UE4, Agni's Philosophy.

At the end of the article, it mentions that its running at 30 fps with a rig of 3 GTX 680s at e3, but not optimized yet.

http://www.pcgamer.com/previews/star-wars-1313-preview/

Edit: Beaten

 

[aegies]

The purpose of a win8 kernel shared across mobile, PC, and console is to ease cross-platform development. If it takes little work to move a live arcade game to windows phone 8, it makes that platform more attractive. Free to play between PC and Xbox would also be more manageable. It makes development for the next Xbox easier in general.

 

[brokenwatch]

Are there any rumors if existing XBLA games will work on the next xbox?

 

[Elginer]

Are there any rumors if existing XBLA games will work on the next xbox?

I sure as hell hope so. I want all of my XBLA games to be B/C. Even better if it adds some smoothing to some games.