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[BriGuy]

I'm all for it, if only so every dick who labels everyone center left as "loony" gets a real taste of an emboldened, uncompromising progressive movement.

 

[entremet]

I saw some "What the Fuck, Chuck?!" signs lol.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

At this point, Trump could find a way to fund a 400 billion dollar infrastructure initiative without adding to the debt, and you would still have some anti-trumpers frothing at the mouth and threatening to primary anyone that votes for it.

It would be more or less a corporate handout and it sure wouldn't be using union workers. Not that hard to find a reason to oppose it.

 

[skullmuffins]

"In areas of agreement" ie, don't be obstructionist just for the sake of it...

Right. And it's important to note that that 73% was for voters as a whole, including people identifying as republicans or independents. Only 52% of democrats polled said they wanted Democrats to work with Trump on areas of agreement, 48% said to resist and obstruct everything.

Anyway, I don't think those numbers mean much anyway and people choosing "resist and obstruct everything" is more a sign of how pissed off the base is and not necessarily a super binding belief, and "work with him on issues you agree with" is a feel-good platitude that sounds reasonable, even if in practice there will be very little that you'd actually agree upon. Like, Trump's nominee to run the VA was confirmed 100-0, and I don't see anyone pissed off that the Dems in the Senate voted for him, because that guy was actually a qualified and reasonable person who came from the Obama admin.

 

[GutsOfThor]

At this point, Trump could find a way to fund a 400 billion dollar infrastructure initiative without adding to the debt, and you would still have some anti-trumpers frothing at the mouth and threatening to primary anyone that votes for it.

I would be one of those people. This man has brought out so much hatred in this country that he should never be forgiven for it.

 

[Boke1879]

Yea this isn't because of Bernie. This is just the party itself.

i don't want to see any dems working with this admin. You oppose all the shit. Now I will agree with what Bernie said. If there is something like a good infrastructure spending bill. Then you pass that shit.

But we've seen so far this admin is going full on crazy. You can't work with these people.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

So how do we reconcile this with the overlap with the 73% of Americans who want them to work with Trump?

Because neither side of that argument is going to be able to go it alone

I'd like to see more polls conducted on the matter, and with different wording of the central question, before considering that to actually be the majority opinion (it may well be, but a single online poll with a very loaded wording is not something I'm prepared to accept as an ironclad fact).

 

[Discotheque]

The big upside of this is maybe these fools will actually vote at the midterms this time

 

[minor effort]

And the Republicans will always turn whatever Democrats do into a negative anyway.

First it's "You voted against DeVos? You're just being obstructionist!" and then it's "Why didn't you tell us she was bad?!"

Or else it's "Oh, you voted for DeVos? Well you should have known she was bad!"

Republicans exploit appeasement and shows of good faith every single time.

Exactly. There's no point whatsoever in trying to appease them or try to show them the benefit of bipartisan cooperation. Republicans absolutely do not care.

 

[robochimp]

So how do we reconcile this with the overlap with the 73% of Americans who want them to work with Trump?


Because neither side of that argument is going to be able to go it alone

Only 50% of eligible voters show up for mid terms.

The GOP has brought historically low congressional approval ratings and they're just fine.

 

[Kusagari]

The "work together" polls are worthless. You saw the same thing with the GOP during Obama's years and they never meant anything in elections.

 

[ThisGuy]

Even if he happened to, I don't know if you'd be willing to admit it.

Bernie absolutely did. He's just not the fuel behind this I think.

 

[Boke1879]

The big upside of this is maybe these fools will actually vote at the midterms this time

And that's really what's needed. I think this loss opened a lot of people's eyes. The people that didn't vote etc.

Also what we've witnessed in the past month I think has helped more people pay attention to politics and stay engaged. Not to mention Trump is going a great job of keeping himself in the shit. Attacking the press, judiciary, IC community etc.

 

[Haunted]

This is a dangerous game. They need to obstruct every outrage but blanket obstruction will harm the process of governing America. And it will hurt them in the midterms.

Serious question, will it?

Republicans practiced an unprecedented amount of stubborn obstructionism and antagonism towards the last president and were rewarded with control over congress, senate and the white house for it.


I'm still all for "when reps go low dems go high", but that hasn't really worked out all that well for them so far. The election has been a big loss for the values of decency and morality.

 

[Chumly]

At this point, Trump could find a way to fund a 400 billion dollar infrastructure initiative without adding to the debt, and you would still have some anti-trumpers frothing at the mouth and threatening to primary anyone that votes for it.

Without adding to the debt...... so you mean there might be critical spending cuts elsewhere? Why the fuck wouldn't democrats be against it?

 

[royalan]

Serious question, will it?

Republicans practiced an unprecedented amount of stubborn obstructionism and antagonism towards the last president and were rewarded with control over congress, senate and the white house for it.


I'm still all for "when reps go low dems go high", but that hasn't really worked out all that well for them so far. The election has been a big loss for the values of decency and morality.

One could argue that blanket opposing a white supremacist party dead set and revoking rights from Americans, taking healthcare from Americans, and pissing all over our Constitution IS the decent and moral thing to do.

 

[Bossking]

It's only ever wrong if The Left does it.

 

[shintoki]

Serious question, will it?

Republicans practiced an unprecedented amount of stubborn obstructionism and antagonism towards the last president and were rewarded with control over congress, senate and the white house for it.


I'm still all for "when reps go low dems go high", but that hasn't really worked out all that well for them so far. The election has been a big loss for the values of decency and morality.

It hasn't won us shit. Clinton campaign was a good example of this. Reasonable, but nothing to be excited about. It was advertised as Obama 2.0 and Not Trump. Trump on the other hand's campaign was full of shit, but at least it gave something to clearly rally behind.

Go out and start swinging big. We're getting fucked up the ass in Midterms again. We're basically at the bottom right now. Go make some big promises you know can't be kept(But some progress made towards), go be a stubborn ass fool, go call Paul Ryan a pussy in a Senate meeting, Start calling Trump... Donald, be childish like they are, do something but do it with some fucking excitement. Honestly, I think right now someone from the party coming out and just calling Trump a fuck ass will get the biggest boost.

Because you damn well know, anything bad that happens these four years will either be the RNC blaming Obama for the next decade or using it to eject Trump after he's pushed through all their shit.

 

[BrutishMrFish]

At this point, Trump could find a way to fund a 400 billion dollar infrastructure initiative without adding to the debt, and you would still have some anti-trumpers frothing at the mouth and threatening to primary anyone that votes for it.

It's not that there's absolutely nothing he could do that that would be worth supporting, it's that there's nothing he would do that would be worth supporting.

Like, if he out of the blue decided to work on reforming our police or protecting trans people from discrimination, I'd be all over that. But he would never do those things in a thousand years.

 

[bremon]

Where are they in agreement?

Aside from TPP I can't think of a single good thing the dude has done. There is no effective difference between resisting all his policies and "only the bad ones"

You can't pretend this administration is just some Republican people are mad at for being Republican and that there's a Good Side to be had here.

Right. And there aren't going to be too many of those, so I think we're good, mostly.

For what it's worth, I was clarifying that crappy poll, not taking a stance on the issue. Taking things out of context is a great way to have the alt-right keep building the walls around themselves and their delusions while they accuse you of "alternative facts".

Right. And it's important to note that that 73% was for voters as a whole, including people identifying as republicans or independents. Only 52% of democrats polled said they wanted Democrats to work with Trump on areas of agreement, 48% said to resist and obstruct everything.

Anyway, I don't think those numbers mean much anyway and people choosing "resist and obstruct everything" is more a sign of how pissed off the base is and not necessarily a super binding belief, and "work with him on issues you agree with" is a feel-good platitude that sounds reasonable, even if in practice there will be very little that you'd actually agree upon. Like, Trump's nominee to run the VA was confirmed 100-0, and I don't see anyone pissed off that the Dems in the Senate voted for him, because that guy was actually a qualified and reasonable person who came from the Obama admin.

Agreed. Even if only 1 policy out of 100 is something you agree with; pass it. Fight the other 99. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face. The real eye opening piece of this OP is that Dems are somehow confused about how to channel momentum. I don't know Chuck, maybe some fire, brimstone, piss and vinegar? Show your constituents you give a shit that's even half the size of the shits they give and maybe people will be motivated?

 

[Extollere]

This election was decided by ~80,000 votes in three states that a lot of things could have swung it the other way.

And don't blame the voters? They're the ones who actually voted in Trump (or didn't vote at all), so they definitely deserve the blame! Bizarre to think otherwise.

Yes, blame Trump voters, but don't make it out that liberals not showing up is the reason Trump won. That's the sentiment I was responding to. There are other factors, as you said - but this sentiment I see everywhere that protestors and activists must be purists who didn't show up in the first place is ridiculous.

 

[Sweeney Tom]

Good to see. Mark election days on calendars

 

[titiklabingapat]

So how do we reconcile this with the overlap with the 73% of Americans who want them to work with Trump?

Because neither side of that argument is going to be able to go it alone

They say the same thing to Republicans and the results speak for themselves.

This is a dangerous game. They need to obstruct every outrage but blanket obstruction will harm the process of governing America. And it will hurt them in the midterms. They should obstruct obvious outrages like Vos or (then) Flynn and amplify hidden outrages like the environmental garbage they're trying to slide through but cooperate on rational picks and bills.

Nah, never hurt the Republican party. They gained seats in 2010, 2014 and kept their House majorities in 2012 and won both houses in 2016.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

My opinion is that Democrats should weigh GOP and Trump proposals on their merits

In other words, they should be voting against them

 

[titiklabingapat]

And you know what, I don't care if it's the Liberal Tea Party. I'd hold my nose and support them if it meant I get to implement and protect progressive legislations and policy. It clearly worked for the Republicans.

 

[Evil Monkey DTT]

I imagine a liberal tea party wanting awful demands like.... healthcare and more food stamps.

 

[Baron Aloha]

Yes, blame Trump voters, but don't make it out that liberals not showing up is the reason Trump won. That's the sentiment I was responding to. There are other factors, as you said - but this sentiment I see everywhere that protestors and activists must be purists who didn't show up in the first place is ridiculous.

Agreed. I'm having trouble finding them now, but I remember reading a couple of articles around the time of the election that said that the democratic rift was a myth and that more Bernie people voted for Hillary this cycle than Hillary people did for Obama in '08 - and that the party was actually more unified this cycle than it had been since 1992.

She didn't lose because people didn't show up. She lost because swing voters in the rust belt (who voted for Obama) flipped. The Comey letter didn't help, but she damn sure took them for granted. She didn't even show up in Wisconsin for crying out loud. There was only 1 way for Trump to win (the rust belt) and she left the barn door wide open.

 

[RPGCrazied]

I'm okay with this. Trump is the polar opposite. There is no working with this guy.

 

[leroidys]

Agreed. I'm having trouble finding them now, but I remember reading a couple of articles around the time of the election that said that the democratic rift was a myth and that more Bernie people voted for Hillary this cycle than Hillary people did for Obama in '08 - and that the party was actually more unified this cycle than it had been since 1992.

She didn't lose because people didn't show up. She lost because swing voters in the rust belt (who voted for Obama) flipped. The Comey letter didn't help, but she damn sure took them for granted. She didn't even show up in Wisconsin for crying out loud. There was only 1 way for Trump to win (the rust belt) and she left the barn door wide open.

They campaigned hard in crucial PA and still lost.

 

[Hyperactivity]

So how do we reconcile this with the overlap with the 73% of Americans who want them to work with Trump?

Because neither side of that argument is going to be able to go it alone

That poll was saying that 73% want democrats to work with Trump if the goals line up

 

[aliengmr]

Pretty empty threat coming from voters who "might" show up every 4 years to vote in the general election. I'll take it seriously when they turn out for the midterms.

 

[120v]

question is what exactly would they be 'obstructing'.... stuff republicans tried to gum the works on during obama was just loony tunes, like raising the debt ceiling. executive branch is still the executive branch, doesn't become voldemort just because some jackass takes over

 

[kmag]

Liberal Tea Party?

We'll see.

The Latte party.

 

[Rentahamster]

I'm OK with this.

 

[Rentahamster]

The Latte party.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_Party_USA

 

[Principate]

That poll was saying that 73% want democrats to work with Trump if the goals line up

Yeah but that Poll had mostly Republican respondents so it's hardly a useable Metric. Republicans by and large aren't going to vote Democrat.

 

[Shaanyboi]

This is not the administration to be playing ball with. This is not the administration in which a reasonable middle ground exists. The Trump cabinet and everything it represents is a fucking cancer to the notions of human decency and progress.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Where the fuck were you all on election day? I bet at least half of these suddenly outraged "activists" didn't vote for Hillary because she didn't pass their purity test.

Saltiness aside, godspeed in your efforts and don't fucking stay home next time.

The last remaining Hillary diehards sure are amusing these days.

 

[TyrantII]

So how do we reconcile this with the overlap with the 73% of Americans who want them to work with Trump?

Because neither side of that argument is going to be able to go it alone

Fuck that 73%. It's the same 73% that rewarded 8 years of obstruction and sabotage by the GOP. Obstruction works.

Dems should take note. Obstruct the hell out of the GOP and next time you get in pass everything and everything to make Washington and citizens lives better. If your lucky, the 73% mob might just support you.

 

[The Technomancer]

That poll was saying that 73% want democrats to work with Trump if the goals line up

Sure, and a very vocal segment of liberal voters, myself (maybe) included don't want to work with him even if goals do line up (not out of denying "victory" to Trump but because I don't trust anything he has his fingers in not to be toxic in some way)

 

[Hyperactivity]

Where the fuck were you all on election day? I bet at least half of these suddenly outraged "activists" didn't vote for Hillary because she didn't pass their purity test.

Saltiness aside, godspeed in your efforts and don't fucking stay home next time.

The last remaining Hillary diehards sure are amusing these days.

Of what use is this shit...

what relevance does it have? Why are you guys still arguing about this shit? Is it relevant to what we need to do, given this current situation?

 

[Gallbaro]

I imagine a liberal tea party wanting awful demands like.... healthcare and more food stamps.

Lol, they would just end up being a bunch of homeless people, in a park, yelling...

 

[ahoyhoy]

Where the fuck were you all on election day? I bet at least half of these suddenly outraged "activists" didn't vote for Hillary because she didn't pass their purity test.

Saltiness aside, godspeed in your efforts and don't fucking stay home next time.

Gonna need the receipts on this one.

Shit like this is being used as a half assed talking point on Fox News daily and it's quite infuriating.

 

[Thaedolus]

The last remaining Hillary diehards sure are amusing these days.

lol "Hillary diehard"

If the choice is between Hillary Clinton and a fucking insane narcissist who's so incompetent I legitimately fear the end of the world, sure, that makes me a Hillary diehard. I voted for her pragmatically, not based on feeling super 100% good and validated by it.

Gonna need the receipts on this one.

Shit like this is being used as a half assed talking point on Fox News daily and it's quite infuriating.

I was screaming my head off at these people leading up to the election to not sit out because they didn't like Hillary. I was doing everything I could to warn people about how dangerous Trump is. My "I told you so" saltiness isn't fake, I'm pissed the fuck off that apathetic morons let this guy into office because feelings, and are just now doing something about it. That said, I'll work with what I got, though I admit it'll be a while before I let this go. If you didn't vote for Hillary, fuck you. Now let's get to work.

 

[Extollere]

Agreed. I'm having trouble finding them now, but I remember reading a couple of articles around the time of the election that said that the democratic rift was a myth and that more Bernie people voted for Hillary this cycle than Hillary people did for Obama in '08 - and that the party was actually more unified this cycle than it had been since 1992.

She didn't lose because people didn't show up. She lost because swing voters in the rust belt (who voted for Obama) flipped. The Comey letter didn't help, but she damn sure took them for granted. She didn't even show up in Wisconsin for crying out loud. There was only 1 way for Trump to win (the rust belt) and she left the barn door wide open.

Again, the blame falls squarely with Hillary and her campaign. Trump had a movement swelling in some of those states, and they ignored it. We didn't fail the Democratic party. The Democratic party failed us.

 

[sugarhigh4242]

Can we get past liberal? The liberals are the ones fucking up. The insurgent movement is the Left: progressives, social democrats, and socialists.

 

[royalan]

Can we get past liberal? The liberals are the ones fucking up. The insurgent movement is the Left: progressives, social democrats, and socialists.

The liberals are the ones doing the actual organizing.

The Indivisible Guide that is helping a lot of these grassroots movements form and organize was created by staffers of a lot of those "liberal" legislators you want to blame.

This is not only a progressive movement. This movement encompasses the entire Democratic party, from moderate to progressive; keep pushing this false narrative if you want, but it won't get you anywhere.

 

[Abelard]

While I do agree the Democratic party needs to grow a spine, lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater here- ultimately we all want the same thing, a stable government that protects American interests, and seeing as the current administration is incompetent on both of these fronts, its is imperative that Democrats "work together", not to reach a compromise mind you but to minimize the damage of the Trump administration.

The death of the TPP for example is something we should all rejoice, so it would be stupid to oppose Trump on this issue just because its Trump.

 

[Aaron Strife]

People in the abstract want the parties to work together, but no self-respecting Democrat wants that to mean the party rolls over for Trump to murder immigrants. They mean if Trump wants to pass an infrastructure bill or maybe revive the gang of 8 bill or something, we should be at the table for that. You know, good policy, or meh policy that we can improve through negotiation and bartering.

Note that same poll said 68% of Americans want Trump to work with the Democrats. A little lower, probably from Republicans taking the same approach that the ResistTrump Democrats are, but ultimately it's a pretty meaningless number.

 

[cress2000]

For those talking about the poll with the 73% result, I'd take it with a boulder of salt. It was conducted online.