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[jahasaja]

Waiting for you to post some sources that confirm Xbox is shutting down. Go ahead.

Obviously there is no such thing. However, in a very short time span MS have made the XBOXONE very unattractive.

-closed down big first party studios
-made all future MS games available on PC.
-promising in vague terms a more powerful version of the console.

Taken together these facts will obviously give rise to speculation.

 

[Matt]

Eh perhaps disappointing but not a failure. Still selling better than 360..though that will probably end soon. Also microsoft sees xbox as their play to push the synergy of windows going forward...so from that level it is immensely important to their consumer play

I've said this before, but the XBO is absolutely a failure for MS. It's goal was to be a popular digital entertainment hub built on MS's ecosystem, and pretty much all of those efforts have been canceled and rolled back. Even if the XBO was the best selling game system the gen, it still wouldn't have achieved what MS wanted for it.

 

[SneakersSO]

I've said this before, but the XBO is absolutely a failure for MS. It's goal was to be a popular digital entertainment hub built on MS's ecosystem, and pretty much all of those efforts have been canceled and rolled back. Even if the XBO was the best selling game system the gen, it still wouldn't have achieved what MS wanted for it.

Even worse, the X1's 180 ended up being a huge failure for them in retrospect. The whole point of Microsoft Xbox's Division software right now is to put up content that is, essentially, pushing users into the W10 ecosystem, or having Xbox One users hopefully moving over into the W10 store. Thats why all their first party games are launching with cross-buy (buy the X1 copy, get the W10 copy free for QB & KI).

However, had MS been able to launch the system the way they originally envisioned it, and all discs were basically acting as digital key's for a digital license on their Windows Storefront, than this would've been a far better system in having Xbox users create some sort of software movement on their storefront, instead of now having to move all their software over to the W10 store to get people to buy it there.

 

[SneakersSO]

Obviously there is no such thing. However, in a very short time span MS have made the XBOXONE very unattractive.

-closed down big first party studios
-made all future MS games available on PC.
-promising in vague terms a more powerful version of the console.

Taken together these facts will obviously give rise to speculation.

They aren't even promising more powerful hardware, but rather multiple iterations on the hardware itself. At the very, very least, MS' approach to the console market is going to undergo drastic, fundamental changes in the next year, and them closing 2 studios (1 of which they recently acquired, mind you) & cancelling 3 projects in the process, indicates their budget has gotten much tighter, which is never a sign of success, especially when you consider MS itself has been profitable in their OS & Enterprise endeavors these last few years..

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Did it though? Genuine question. Did they ever put a number out there? Of course they're looking at PS4 numbers and thinking "fuck" but aren't those numbers unprecedented?

They did. Yusuf Mehdi in 2013:

The company also believes that the next-generation of consoles, including the Xbox One, could reach 1 billion in combined sales. Microsoft is hoping that mass-market audiences are enticed by the console's enhanced media and voice capabilities.

"Every generation, as you've probably heard, has grown approximately 30%. So this generation is about 300 million units. Most industry experts think the next generation will get upwards of about 400 million units. That's if it's a game console, over the next decade," added Medhi.

"We think you can go broader than a game console, that's our aim, and you can go from 400 million to potentially upwards of a billion units. That's how we're thinking of the Xbox opportunity as we go forward."

They were so out of touch that they thought TVTVTVTV would push the XBO to the better part of a market of a billion units. Of course, there was likely some very optimistic maths in that estimate, of the kind you use to get skeptical shareholders to sign off on making a new product in a product line they are starting to lose faith in.

Still, they were pushing numbers like one billion units around. Struggling to reach 20 million must be far below what they were targeting.

 

[semiconscious]

Obviously there is no such thing. However, in a very short time span MS have made the XBOXONE very unattractive.

-closed down big first party studios
-made all future MS games available on PC.
-promising in vague terms a more powerful version of the console.

Taken together these facts will obviously give rise to speculation.

'if you want an upgradeable console, we have one for you. it's called the pc...'

 

[Sydle]

Well my main issue was the cost of the characters which was "reigned in" recently. I really didn't have a problem with anything else for reasons that I'd mention if I was sure about the NDA lol.

I suppose we felt differently about it. I loved Fable for the world it let me explore and I felt it was completely lost. With their design I don't see how they could have fixed it either without going back to the drawing board.

Sent you a PM.

 

[curiouscharles]

Lionhead never made games I enjoyed for Xbox. [trying to stick to "I" statements here, as this is all personal opinion!]

Fable has always been a disappointment for me personally, especially the first one [one only needs remember Molyneux's ridiculous promises prior to the game's launch for this to sink in].

I've always cringed somewhat in any of MS' reveals / presentations / announcements when they touted Fable and/or Lionhead - they've just never performed to my expectations.

As such, it was a smart move to let them go - trim the fat, make room for something newer / better.

But I mean, yeah, fair enough - the XBONE isn't doing so great, but decisions like this closure only make more sense considering their present circumstances.

Definitely feel for all the developers who are out of work though, and hope they land on their feet sooner rather than later - but Lionhead [as a first-party studio] needed to go [imho, of course].

 

[Mael]

They did. Yusuf Mehdi in 2013:



They were so out of touch that they thought TVTVTVTV would push the XBO to the better part of a market of a billion units. Of course, there was likely some very optimistic maths in that estimate, of the kind you use to get skeptical shareholders to sign off on making a new product in a product line they are starting to lose faith in.

Still, they were pushing numbers like one billion units around. Struggling to reach 20 million must be far below what they were targeting.

I remember that interview, they always struggled outside of NA/UK and they had the gall to claim that suddenly the world was going to like their product so much we would buy it like ice cream in a sunny day.
I don't see by what metric you can say that the Xbone is anything but a failure,
If fulfilled none of the objectives it was set up to do and lost market in all the territories.
Might as well label the Nokia purchase as a smashing success while we're at it.

 

[tekumseh]

Wait, you're telling me that the beta I just downloaded yesterday, and started playing TODAY is cancelled? For fucks sake...

 

[Flintty]

They did. Yusuf Mehdi in 2013:



They were so out of touch that they thought TVTVTVTV would push the XBO to the better part of a market of a billion units. Of course, there was likely some very optimistic maths in that estimate, of the kind you use to get skeptical shareholders to sign off on making a new product in a product line they are starting to lose faith in.

Still, they were pushing numbers like one billion units around. Struggling to reach 20 million must be far below what they were targeting.

Good find and your comments about TVTVTV ring true. A disappointing plan for Xbox at the start. But since the change in direction/management they've been on the right track. Until recently or specifically for me, yesterday.

 

[tfur]

They did. Yusuf Mehdi in 2013:



They were so out of touch that they thought TVTVTVTV would push the XBO to the better part of a market of a billion units. Of course, there was likely some very optimistic maths in that estimate, of the kind you use to get skeptical shareholders to sign off on making a new product in a product line they are starting to lose faith in.

Still, they were pushing numbers like one billion units around. Struggling to reach 20 million must be far below what they were targeting.

Pie charts

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Pie charts

Damn. I think that one will get some use.

 

[diffusionx]

Eh perhaps disappointing but not a failure. Still selling better than 360..though that will probably end soon. Also microsoft sees xbox as their play to push the synergy of windows going forward...so from that level it is immensely important to their consumer play

The Xbox One is a huge failure in sales. The fact that the X1 is maybe selling better than 360 did 8 years ago is irrelevant. It's just spin. The industry is far bigger than it was 8 years ago, and the PS4 is selling really well because people want to buy videogame consoles. Just not Microsoft ones, which is a problem for Microsoft.

I don't think Xbox One is closing up shop but yea, it's a failure. It did huge damage to the brand, a lot of loyal 360 customers switched platfoms, and well, if it was successful they would not be switching strategies. You don't see Sony changing policies or mixing things up right now, why is that? Because their system is a big success. MS is changing things up because they have to, a system with maybe 30% marketshare won't fly.

I don't see them leaving the game industry but the gaming division of MS will look very different a year or two from now. If it becomes the Trojan Horse that pushes Microsoft's new Windows strategy, that's only because the people running Microsoft are very smart and were able to change things on the fly. It's definitely not what they wanted out of it.

 

[Steverulez]

Lionhead have returned to the Microsoft Studios website with a Fable Legends picture there... bizarre. Maybe the studio will get some sort of reprieve

https://microsoftstudios.com

 

[Matt]

Lionhead have returned to the Microsoft Studios website with a Fable Legends picture there... bizarre. Maybe the studio will get some sort of reprieve

https://microsoftstudios.com

Might very well just be the result of UK law with regards to business closures.

 

[Steverulez]

Might very well just be the result of UK law with regards to business closures.

What is the law? (Im from the UK, but have no idea of what you refer to)

I don't see why that obligates them to put the picture on the website though.

I wonder if the studio will be rebooted, scale down and make something new - perhaps not even AAA. It does say "proposed closure", I could see MS considering some alternatives to just dumping the entire thing although FL will presumably remain dead

 

[hydrophilic attack]

What is the law? (Im from the UK, but have no idea of what you refer to)

Officially, the studio is not closed yet. Officially they "are in discussions with employees about the proposed closure of Lionhead Studios"

 

[curiouscharles]

Officially, the studio is not closed yet. Officially they "are in discussions with employees about the proposed closure of Lionhead Studios"

still don't understand why law would dictate that they can't remove their image from their website though.

seems more likely to get them in trouble for misleading consumers if the game isn't coming out no?

 

[Matt]

still don't understand why law would dictate that they can't remove their image from their website though.

seems more likely to get them in trouble for misleading consumers if the game isn't coming out no?

Probably never should have been removed in the first place, as the studio is not yet closed, and that implies it is.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Officially, the studio is not closed yet. Officially they "are in discussions with employees about the proposed closure of Lionhead Studios"

It would be fascinating if the studio didn't close due to public backlash.

 

[shoreu]

Officially, the studio is not closed yet. Officially they "are in discussions with employees about the proposed closure of Lionhead Studios"

I'm hoping they stay open this game needs to be played by the masses.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Fable Legends saved! Now everyone can go back to not caring!!

 

[Matt]

I'm hoping they stay open this game needs to be played by the masses.

Don't do this to yourself.

 

[Ushay]

Christ the doom and gloom some people are singing in this thread is downright embarrassing.

It's been the same old rhetoric for over 10 years now. Xbox is here to stay, much to the disappointment of many.

 

[Warxard]

Maybe Lionhead will make it out...

There'll probably be a ton of layoffs but maybe they won't be gone.

 

[shoreu]

Don't do this to yourself.

Lol man I feel so bad they just updated the game with new content after this announcement too lol their still working.

The private forums are in a riot.

 

[LordBaztion]

Christ the doom and gloom some people are singing in this thread is downright embarrassing.

It's been the same old rhetoric for over 10 years now. Xbox is here to stay, much to the disappointment of many.

do you remember about a year ago when MS selling Xbox to Amazon or other was inevitable? Those were good times.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

do you remember about a year ago when MS selling Xbox to Amazon or other was inevitable? Those were good times.

I mean, you can't say they didn't. Where's your proof MS is still running the Xbox ship?

They might just be the mouthpiece for the ones who really run things.

Think about it.

Think.

 

[Kathian]

Christ the doom and gloom some people are singing in this thread is downright embarrassing.

It's been the same old rhetoric for over 10 years now. Xbox is here to stay, much to the disappointment of many.

The idea its been this for 10 years is ridiculous. 10 years ago MS was the star.

 

[LukasTaves]

They did. Yusuf Mehdi in 2013:



They were so out of touch that they thought TVTVTVTV would push the XBO to the better part of a market of a billion units. Of course, there was likely some very optimistic maths in that estimate, of the kind you use to get skeptical shareholders to sign off on making a new product in a product line they are starting to lose faith in.

Still, they were pushing numbers like one billion units around. Struggling to reach 20 million must be far below what they were targeting.

They also said 1 billion users a few times during the 360 reveal. Their goals didn't changed heck even the win10 push we are seeing now is similar to Live Anywhere that they announced last gen.

They had the same goal (and still has) since forever, the difference now is that they finally got the entire company to work together towards that goal.

 

[slavesnyder]

Maybe Lionhead will make it out...

There'll probably be a ton of layoffs but maybe they won't be gone.

If british law forces Microsoft to keep Lionhead alive, Spencer will punish them by letting them work on kinect games.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

What is the law? (Im from the UK, but have no idea of what you refer to)

I don't see why that obligates them to put the picture on the website though.

As officially, the company is not closed, but it's closure is under proposal, the staff effected have so many days to put together arguments against it's closure, to why it is a bad idea to do this. Staff can essentially argue their worth. I have been through this process, and it was literally just bullshit, as when these things are decided, they have already been through the arguments. The worst part is that the people putting it together and presenting it worked really hard for us all, as we put forward reps to do it for the office as a whole.

If MS remove the pictures, they are admitting the process redundant, and that does not stand. Their removal signified that it is already a forgone conclusion, even though that is exactly what it is, it cannot be represented.

 

[SOR5]

Lionhead have returned to the Microsoft Studios website with a Fable Legends picture there... bizarre. Maybe the studio will get some sort of reprieve

https://microsoftstudios.com

Fable Legends is also currently in the little "games" tab at the top of the page, was it removed before?

 

[SneakersSO]

Fable Legends is also currently in the little "games" tab at the top of the page, was it removed before?

Yes it was. See the post above yours about the UK law which is why these updates have occurred.

 

[etta]

I mean, you can't say they didn't. Where's your proof MS is still running the Xbox ship?

They might just be the mouthpiece for the ones who really run things.

Think about it.

Think.

Haha goddamn.

But seriously, I plead to moderators if they can pay a little more attention to Xbox threads, most of them have been depressing to read these past few days. Even all the good Gears of War news threads are being trolled about how it's a dead franchise and 1080pr.
:/

 

[Leflus]

If british law forces Microsoft to keep Lionhead alive, Spencer will punish them by letting them work on kinect games.

Kinect jokes are so 2012.

It's all about dat Hololens now!

Luckliy it seems like MS has moved away from making its main studios implement experimental control schemes in their games. The current hololens stuff is either made by the hololens team in Redmond or by external studios.

 

[Warxard]

If british law forces Microsoft to keep Lionhead alive, Spencer will punish them by letting them work on kinect games.

Isn't this joke kind of outdated.

 

[Steverulez]

As officially, the company is not closed, but it's closure is under proposal, the staff effected have so many days to put together arguments against it's closure, to why it is a bad idea to do this. Staff can essentially argue their worth. I have been through this process, and it was literally just bullshit, as when these things are decided, they have already been through the arguments. The worst part is that the people putting it together and presenting it worked really hard for us all, as we put forward reps to do it for the office as a whole.

If MS remove the pictures, they are admitting the process redundant, and that does not stand. Their removal signified that it is already a forgone conclusion, even though that is exactly what it is, it cannot be represented.

Thanks for the write-up!

My hope has always been that they (Lionhead management) could convince MS to let them reboot the studio, either with the same name or even a different one. Unfortunately layoffs seem inevitable but perhaps if they can offer some hope with something new (and not at all like Fable Legends) - even on a smaller scale which might let them rebuild.

It seems incredibly unlikely though and I'm not anticipating it.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

They also said 1 billion users a few times during the 360 reveal.

I'd be interested in seeing a source for this.

 

[SPDIF]

They did. Yusuf Mehdi in 2013:



They were so out of touch that they thought TVTVTVTV would push the XBO to the better part of a market of a billion units. Of course, there was likely some very optimistic maths in that estimate, of the kind you use to get skeptical shareholders to sign off on making a new product in a product line they are starting to lose faith in.

Still, they were pushing numbers like one billion units around. Struggling to reach 20 million must be far below what they were targeting.

No, they thought that the XB1, along with the PS4 and Wii U could reach a grand total of a billion units. That's still an absolutely insane figure to put out there, but they definitely did not say that they expect the XB1 alone to reach that figure.

 

[Papacheeks]

Yes, it is an online game. No, it is not an MMO game. Neither is Destiny.

...and are you serious about the subs suggestion/speculation? Oh wow. There will probably be some sort of microtransactions in the game, but I seriously doubt that there's even a chance it'll have subscriptions. That's what Xbox Live Gold is for anyways.

The game has you playing with and against other online players? Just like division, and other online focused games.
Looking at it, I can guarantee there will be cosmetic microtransactions or separate dlc to customize your pirate and ship.

I guarantee there is a level system or rank system on how your ranked among pirates. I also guarantee there will be something along the lines for late adopters, IE you can buy experience through in game currency through the store.
They did it with Forza, they tried having F2P fable with microtransactions, the req system in Halo 5 is similar to a microtransaction system.
They have been doing it, don't be naive.

Do I have to repeat my first comment again

Are you exclusively revealing that Sea of Thieves is an MMO with a monthly sub and whoring it out with micro transactions lol.

I am saying it's not far fetched seeing they've added micro-transactions in Halo 5 with Req system, in Forza, tried to make fable into a gigantic, dota inspired game with bought character,s and probably loot packs.
It's not rocket science to understand what Sea of thieves is about, and how they would try those types of things for the game to continue as a service since it's primarily online. You more than likely have a rank of your pirate or sailor type character, probably can improve to become captain and have your own custom ship.

So if those are like my educated hunch telling me in the game in some form, you can expect there to be ways to pay your way to first mate or captain if your a late to the game.
And there will be custom outfits and such which you probably can buy with in game loot, or buy them with real money in some form or fashion.
The game is online only from the looks of it, to keep supporting the game, how do you expect them to do that if this is in fact how the game plays out?

Because seeing how MS went ahead and green lit fable legends which was a F2P game you knew they were trying new paywall types to see what they could get away with. Hell it's currently in Halo 5, forza.
So yea, I'm making a educated guess, about a online game that has you looting and plundering against other players.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

No, they thought that the XB1, along with the PS4 and Wii U could reach a grand total of a billion units. That's still an absolutely insane figure to put out there, but they definitely did not say that they expect the XB1 alone to reach that figure.

Read what I said again. They expected to hit THE BETTER PART of 1 billion. Read the quote again. Based on historic data, 400 would be the total number. They thought if you tried to reach outside the core gamer market, you could get to a billion. Which player made a real effort of reaching outside the core gamer market? Xbox. Ergo, they expected the XBO to be mainly responsible for growing the market from 400 million to a billion.

 

[SPDIF]

Read what I said again. They expected to hit THE BETTER PART of 1 billion. Read the quote again. Based on historic data, 400 would be the total number. They thought if you tried to reach outside the core gamer market, you could get to a billion. Which player made a real effort of reaching outside the core gamer market? Xbox. Ergo, they expected the XBO to be mainly responsible for growing the market from 400 million to a billion.

Fair enough. When I initially read your post I thought that you thought MS were expecting the Xbox to reach a billion alone. Reading it again I see what you mean now.

 

[Lemondish]

Seriously no one cares about your drivel



Eh perhaps disappointing but not a failure. Still selling better than 360..though that will probably end soon. Also microsoft sees xbox as their play to push the synergy of windows going forward...so from that level it is immensely important to their consumer play

Uhm, the only system that sold slower than the 360 in the past couple generations was the Wii U, so selling better than the second worst isn't a medal worthy victory. It's more of something you say following the words "well, at least it's..."

 

[Leflus]

The game has you playing with and against other online players? Just like division, and other online focused games.

Borderlands has you playing with or against other online players. That doesn't make it an MMO.

The devs themselves are classifying Sea of Thieves as a "shared world adventure".

Looking at it, I can guarentee there will be cosmetic microtransactions or sperate dlc to customize your pirate and ship.

I guarentee there is a level system or rank system on how your ranked among pirates. I also guarentee there will be something along the lines for late adopters, IE you can buy experience through in game currency through the store.

They did it with Forza, they tried having F2P fable with microtransactions, the req system in Halo 5 is similar to a microtransaction system.

They have been doing it, don't be naive.
.

What are you on about? How am I being naive? Go back and re-read my post. I said that there will probably be microtransactions in the game.

Right now the only thing we know about it is that it's not a F2P game. That's why I said "probably". They haven't come out and detailed the price model yet.

 

[Sydle]

I'd be interested in seeing a source for this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smLy_S6spDw

 

[NoPiece]

Christ the doom and gloom some people are singing in this thread is downright embarrassing.

It's been the same old rhetoric for over 10 years now. Xbox is here to stay, much to the disappointment of many.

If you look at the broader timeline of consoles, more manufacturers have left the business then stayed in the business (e.g., Atari, Mattel, Coleco, NEC, Sega, SNK, 3DO). So i don't think it would be surprising or doom and gloom if one of current manufacturers left the living room game console business (MS or Nintendo).

 

[hydrophilic attack]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smLy_S6spDw

Fair enough.

But there is a huge difference between what they said before this generation (1 billion console units sold) and what they said before last (reaching one billion people with the medium as they said in that video). The latter included hand-helds, people trying a free browser game, parents playing with their kids a couple of times before losing interest, pc gaming, Minesweeper, and so on.

I mean, with the rise of f2p smartphone games, Allard's prediction probably came through. Mehdi's prediction not so much.

 

[SOR5]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smLy_S6spDw

His mannerisms were alot like Phils, but with more fire

J was cool