Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Yep. Caught that one too. This confirms it’s indeed an overclocked (that thermal throttles) 9 TFLOPs RDNA 1.5 console as we’ve all suspected all along.
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Mark Cerny: When making consoles, we're not trying to build low-cost PCs
- Thread starter Thick Thighs Save Lives
- Start date
- Opinion Game Dev Hardware
MAX PAYMENT
Member
Yeah. I'm always amazed at that innovation every time I play a console.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
It's been a bit of a nothingburger outside of the whole rift apart thing though
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
hinch7
Member
There's only so much you can do with so little BOM. Which is impressive for the cost but gets outdated fast. The CPU especially hasn't aged well as Zen 2 wasn't really a great architecture for gaming in the first place, and this version in the APU is cut back even further. Hopefully with more power next generation comes better tools to aid game development as well, and we don't get one game per developer per generation. With the surgence of Ai, they can leverage that to assist and cut down dev times.
Also really hope we can get 30fps out the way next generation. With most TV's capable nowadays of handing 120hz, 40fps should be the gold standard for fidelity. With frame generation, even more-so. With tripled up FG like with what Lossless Scaling has showed me; that is the way forward. People say fake frames but here I am playing GoT with low latency and 240fps. And it looks goddamn glorious.
Also really hope we can get 30fps out the way next generation. With most TV's capable nowadays of handing 120hz, 40fps should be the gold standard for fidelity. With frame generation, even more-so. With tripled up FG like with what Lossless Scaling has showed me; that is the way forward. People say fake frames but here I am playing GoT with low latency and 240fps. And it looks goddamn glorious.
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ChiefDada
Gold Member
Lol, it's been the cause of many tears flowing over the misnomer of "bad PC ports". PC struggles with equivalent settings of cross-gen ports like Horizon, Spider-Man, and the same will happen in September with Ragnarok. By the time true current gen only games like Demon Souls and SM2 get ported hopefully mainstream class hardware will catch up.
Zathalus
Member
Yep, faster loading is great and all but the whole paradigm shift in game design and asset streaming hasn't really occured. Rift Apart is basically the only game that has even pushed the PS5 SSD (and consequently the PC version is the only game that requires GPU decomp Direct storage).
I'm hoping future releases do something exciting.
feynoob
Gold Member
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Ah yes, the "lazy devs" fallacy.
OverHeat
« generous god »
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
No, memory management has been the issue.
KimDongHwan
Member
I have to be honest, I bought a PC (and love it) because of being bored by Sony's PS5 offerings, but I would say the PS5 still wins in a lot of departments compared to my 2k+ Computer. There is something on how smooth it runs, the loading speed, that just makes it look higher budget than my PC.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
If you got top of the line hardware like I do…we can brute force it all
Agreed.
That guy just charges a lot for last years stuff renumberedThis guy is better
Cerny is not bad
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
That's not I/o. Cards around the same range as the ps5 simply lack vram so you get stuttering issues. Most of the ports are pretty peachy otherwise
Madserb2023
Member
Consoles are just low to mid PCs and have been since the PS4. There are differences but that's more down to the basic reality of having a fixed platform that developers can specifically build their game around so no need for decompilation etc. You can also get relatively better performance but that's less to do with hardware and more down to developers knowing exactly what is going to be observed by everyone playing your game so it's easier to optimize. To be honest I'm not bothered by the fact that consoles no longer have custom hardware even if it might limit potential. I can't even imagine how long games would take to make on a Cell 3.0. last Is Us 3 would take about 20 years to make.
Rudius
Member
Not at all. With a low end PC you will waste more time getting games to run optimality than playing those games. A PS5 still works as intended.
Killjoy-NL
Member
Wouldn't Series X then be a badly designed console in comparison, given that it's on par with said 9Tflop RDNA 1.5 machine?
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feynoob
Gold Member
You really don't. Where are you guys getting these stuff?
Al you need is essentially upgrade your ram or your graphic card.
feynoob
Gold Member
That is mainly due to optimization.
Because Sony is only making games for PS5, it's easier to play them.
The loading speed is ssd difference. A good ssd makes your game faster, or even faster than a PS5 game.
feynoob
Gold Member
What fallacy?
Developers still have yet to fix some of their horrible PC porting games. They don't care.
We had cyberpunk 2077 fiasco because of the management greed.
OverHeat
« generous god »
True I have 2 990pro and a gen 5 t700 that whip the PS5 SSD
KimDongHwan
Member
I will need to check on this then, maybe my SSD is just plain bad. Because I see loading screens far more often on PC than on PS5.
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bitbydeath
Member
That’s simply not true.
The hardware is heavily customised to the point that you cannot purchase a lot of the parts off the shelf.
simpatico
Member
Designing what? The housing? AMD designs the important bits. “Herrr where should we put the HDMI port?? Ask me again in 3 years, I’m working on it”Cerny says building a console takes about four years, and nowadays that's less time than it takes to make some of the big AAA titles.
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
But he didn’t mean to do that!
AJUMP23
Member
I will see what she will send my way.
CPU: More or less lifted straight from Renoir. Except with reduced AVX performance.
GPU: Modified variant of Navi 10 with RT accelerators.
"Heavily customized".
Killjoy-NL
Member
Isn't that like €780 combined? One would hope they would whip PS5 SSD.
Imagine of they didn't.
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bitbydeath
Member
They’re made that way for a specific purpose, and aren’t the only parts modified. And in the OP it is mentioned how PC has since adopted some of these methods.
The differences were so great that a lot of people didn’t understand Mark Cerny’s Road to PS5, and expected the PS5 to perform a lot worse than it has because they were basing it on what they thought was comparable PC hardware at the time.
Insane Metal
Gold Member
Fixed
cinnamonandgravy
Member
not trying but
Hudo
Member
you know what? We won't ever agree on this so let's just drop it.
Rudius
Member
Than it's not low end anymore. PC gaming is good when you have more power than you need, so you don't have to worry about optimising all the time. An old PC is for old games and emulators.
Nonehxc
Member
Reverse Uno, it'sPlot twist, it'sfeynoob
IntentionalPun
making an intentional pun with his avatar about him being Cerny in disguise which turns out to be true.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Which PC struggles with Horizon? Yours? Mine doesn't.
Then your PC sucks somehow.
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feynoob
Gold Member
Do you game on PC?
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Call me crazy, but I have a theory. Wait wait don't say I am crazy yet...
I think for some obscure reason, the odd-numbered PS consoles, are always the worst ones. And the ugliest. But in truth, they are also the most innovative ones.
Let me elaborate.
PS1, PS3 and PS5... can all fit into (less so the PS1) the ugly console category. And they are always curved in some way. PS2, 4 and ultimately PS6, would be sexy-looking things, and the PS6 will likely continue the trend of all even-numbered PS consoles being angular... not curved.
Now that the superficial stuff is outta the way... what makes the odd-numbered consoles bad and the most innovative?
I believe that for whatever reason, every major tech advancement first shows up in an odd-numbered PS console. PS1, the start of the whole 3D thing. PS3, the start of the HD era and of course blue ray and HDD in every console as standard. PS5, the start of the RT era.... etc.
The PS6 is going to come along, and everything that the PS5 started, will be mature and developed and be what we all imagined they would be now. Rinse and repeat.
Rudius
Member
Pc and PS5
feynoob
Gold Member
Then you should have an idea that you can simply upgrade your PC then, unlike your consoles.
I am still rocking on a 2017 graphic card playing starfield.
A 2021 graphic would make it better than my current card.
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
Based Cerny
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
I'm honestly not sure what your position is, so I can't say what I'm disagreeing with.
Not trying to be a dick about this, I truthfully do not understand what you meant!
All I was saying is that what makes a system distinct in terms of performance and user experience when developing for it is how it fits together holistically. Sharing make-up in terms of which vendor supplied the components is far less significant - the devil's in the details.
Also I hate the fact that people think of peak performance as being more relevant than average performance, when in the real world how effort intensive it is to reach a satisfactory level of performance is a massive influencing factor on the final result.
Sony learned their lesson well with the PS3; being forward looking and adventurous at the expense of making coders struggle against the system is not a "win".
Even if in the long term the benefits are somewhat demonstrable, if the first development cycle results in comparatively sub-par product then it creates a negative impression that is hard to shake.
Geometric-Crusher
Member
I saw a lot of prejudice from users who don't really understand what R&D is, people who think you just have to go to AMD and buy the chips and build them.People who think like this would bankrupt Sony with 3RLs, leave room for piracy like the Dreamcast or make a 12 terflop console that loses to the 10tf competitor.
more respect for the Sony systems architect and the engineering professionals who work in the R&D departments researching the best solutions in terms of cost-benefit, quality, believe me, without these professionals, the xbox controller would still be the Duke today, but they improved it by finding on the xbox one controller, the ultimate in perfection on an xbox console.
more respect for the Sony systems architect and the engineering professionals who work in the R&D departments researching the best solutions in terms of cost-benefit, quality, believe me, without these professionals, the xbox controller would still be the Duke today, but they improved it by finding on the xbox one controller, the ultimate in perfection on an xbox console.
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
The point of consoles are unique, streamlined closed systems where you can optimize and “code to the metal”, one set of hardware for everyone. This allows games like TLOU 2 to be made on 1.8 TF hardware…
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