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[DenchDeckard]

Ahhh yes here we go with the excuses

A game that reviewed well and has good user reception and is an excellent graphics showcase is suddenly bad and that’s why it bombed

Horizon fw was reduced to 15 pounds on disk the year it launched in the UK and went onto playstation plus within a year.

Sony are trying their best to keep the lifeline going on that franchise.

The game is boring slop, which is an insult to all of us. How do you make robot dinosaurs a boring mess? Ask the devs...

The first game was fine for what it was but I couldn't get passed the tutorial on the second game. Awful characters, awful design. Great graphics. Is that all you want?

Sony need to get back to making great games and I personally want them on pc day one but I can understand why hardcore fans of the sony business and console want that to not happen. Me though, give me cross save and I'll double dip on good games.

 

[nial]

and went onto playstation plus within a year.

It was an experiment to prove why games launching soon on subscription servives was a bad idea on financial terms.

 

[Zathalus]

You got proof it sold close to 20mil alone on PC there champ? Denuvo gets cracked still.

Yes, Gamalytic. It's been proven to be extremely accurate over and over again. By the leaked Sony numbers no less. As well as others like Palworld, Last Epoch, etc...

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Awful characters, awful design. Great graphics. Is that all you want?

10x better in all of these aspects compared to your GOTY 2023, Dench

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

Collect yourselves, PCMR.

PCMR in shambles

 

[ArtHands]

I am starting to agree with the sentiment that perhaps Sony might be releasing Day One on PC in the future, which will be inline with their trojan horse strategy.

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

I am starting to agree with the sentiment that perhaps Sony might be releasing Day One on PC in the future, which will be inline with their trojan horse strategy.

I don't see it happening. With their GAAS sure but seeing how HFW flopped on PC, this strategy doesn't work for their high profile single player games.


I know some people will say that it's because HFW already launched on PS5 and FOMO is over but those PC numbers are still bad even when you take that into consideration.


There just isn't enough incentive for Sony to do so with weak numbers like that.

 

[mckmas8808]

1. Steam takes a 20-30% cut from sales.

2. Exclusives drive hardware sales which in turn drive accessories sales.

3. Most importantly, exclusives convert or keep more people in the PS ecosystem and the largest share of Sony’s profits come from PS+ and related services. Sony cannot afford to lose those because PC customers don’t buy PS+.

4. None of Sony’s games have DRM’s on PC so they sure as shit ain’t afraid of piracy, else they’d use Denuvo which takes a minimum of 90 days to crack most of the time.

Points 2 and 3 are the things most people in this thread don't want to discuss. Because like my man said here....... It becomes overly obvious that Sony can't afford to lose that money by pushing them to being PC gamers.

That you for wanting to have the real conversation.

 

[mckmas8808]

I don't think it would make a lot of difference. Console gamers will still be console gamers. They are not going to drop their PS5, leave behind their PS library and invest in PC, simply because some first party games launch day one on PC. I think a small segment of gamers who own both PC and PS would decide there is too much redundancy, but the vast majority will still be gaming with thier console in the living with the big TV.

It's literally what many would do. Me included. And I've been a PS gamer since 1997 until now. Never a year without a PS.

 

[Braag]

Uh oh, not the type of news GAF likes to hear.

The cope begins.

It's always the same people too lol

 

[ArtHands]

I don't see it happening. With their GAAS sure but seeing how HFW flopped on PC, this strategy doesn't work for their high profile single player games.


I know some people will say that it's because HFW already launched on PS5 and FOMO is over but those PC numbers are still bad even when you take that into consideration.


There just isn't enough incentive for Sony to do so with weak numbers like that.

Horizon didn’t flopped considering Sony is doubling down on their PC effort now.

I don’t think this will happen this year or next year though. There is no major PS5 release this year, and there are still PS5 games to port over like TLOU Part II, GOW Ragnarok and Spider-Man 2. Likely happen after they have run out of games to port over.

 

[firegamer273]

i see so many salty peeps in this thread

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

Horizon didn’t flopped considering Sony is doubling down on their PC effort now.

I don’t think this will happen this year or next year though. There is no major PS5 release this year, and there are still PS5 games to port over like TLOU Part II, GOW Ragnarok and Spider-Man 2. Likely happen after they have run out of games to port over.

You and I will have to disagree on that. Those HFW numbers are bad, it flopped from what I’m seeing. I can’t imagine Sony is too happy with its performance on PC considering how the last one sold.

 

[Gaiff]

You guys are revisionists. We had people complaining about how bringing games to PC day 1 would make xbox consoles obsolete for years.
People are even literally saying that consoles are dying for that reason.

And obviously it's a bunch of reasons that all caused the downfall, like their games output, but the message has been "you don't need an Xbox" for years.

And if you don't think so, you can just look at any PS PC game thread where people keep saying that if Sony would just bring all their games to PC day 1, they won't need a Playstation console anymore.

The downfall of Xbox began years before they started their PC ports so you're wrong. The PC ports started in 2016, but Microsoft stopped reporting sales numbers in 2015 out of sheer embarrassment because they had been terrible for years. The whole E3 fiasco was years before the PC ports.

So, no. You are the revisionist because we know for a FACT that Xbox sales were cratering long before the PC initiative. The PC ports were seen as a remedy to the problem. It's not like Xbox was doing well, started doing PC ports, and then the descent began. We had it in front of our eyes but you guys like to pretend that a bunch of shit games for a decade+ isn't the number 1 reason that this brand is failing. The rest isn't even relevant. Your games suck? Your console will tank. End of the story.

Make a list of all the Xbox exclusives that came out between 2011-2015 and have a laugh. Hell, some consoles that flopped worse than the X1 and SX such as the Gamecube and Dreamcast had way better games either console ever did, but you insist that PC has anything to do with their problems?

Please.

 

[DenchDeckard]

It was an experiment to prove why games launching soon on subscription servives was a bad idea on financial terms.

It was deffo an experiment but the game had already been dropped in price considerably in the UK and sales had slowed. Word of mouth was no where near as positive as the first game either.

10x better in all of these aspects compared to your GOTY 2023, Dench

And what game do you think that is?

 

[Killjoy-NL]

The downfall of Xbox began years before they started their PC ports so you're wrong. The PC ports started in 2016, but Microsoft stopped reporting sales numbers in 2015 out of sheer embarrassment because they had been terrible for years. The whole E3 fiasco was years before the PC ports.

So, no. You are the revisionist because we know for a FACT that Xbox sales were cratering long before the PC initiative. The PC ports were seen as a remedy to the problem. It's not like Xbox was doing well, started doing PC ports, and then the descent began. We had it in front of our eyes but you guys like to pretend that a bunch of shit games for a decade+ isn't the number 1 reason that this brand is failing. The rest isn't even relevant. Your games suck? Your console will tank. End of the story.

Make a list of all the Xbox exclusives that came out between 2011-2015 and have a laugh. Hell, some consoles that flopped worse than the X1 and SX such as the Gamecube and Dreamcast had way better games either console ever did, but you insist that PC has anything to do with their problems?

Please.

You didn't read what I said, did you?
I acknowledged that it is a multitude of reason, but saying PC has nothing to do with it is retarded.

Not even going to bother arguing about this any longer.

 

[Gaiff]

You didn't read what I said, did you?
I acknowledged that it is a multitude of reason, but saying PC has nothing to do with it is retarded.

It has nothing to do with it.

Not even going to bother arguing about this any longer.

There’s nothing to argue because you don’t have a shred of evidence to back up your claims.

 

[cebri.one]

PSPC is the way to go.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

It has nothing to do with it.

There’s nothing to argue because you don’t have a shred of evidence to back up your claims.

Yet we have a lot of xbox fanboys claiming xbox fans will just move PC because it wouldn't matter.

All part of the messaging of "you don't need an Xbox", which already started when MS decided to bring all their games to PC day 1.

If you think it's not the case, fine by me.

And no, I'm not saying it's the reason for Xbox downfall.

 

[Gaiff]

Yet we have a lot of xbox fanboys claiming xbox fans will just move PC because it wouldn't matter.

All part of the messaging of "you don't need an Xbox", which already started when MS decided to bring all their games to PC day 1.

If you think it's not the case, fine by me.

And no, I'm not saying it's the reason for Xbox downfall.

Fanboys aren’t representative of the general populace. Looking at Gaf, you’d swear that everyone rocks a 4090 inside their PCs but this isn’t the case.

Once again, you’re suggesting that people would have bought Xboxes to play Crackdown 3, Bleeding Edge, Quantum Break, Ryse, or other shit games. Look at how poorly Halo 5 sold compared to 3 and they’re both exclusives.

Evidence disagrees with your assessment.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Fanboys aren’t representative of the general populace. Looking at Gaf, you’d swear that everyone rocks a 4090 inside their PCs but this isn’t the case.

Once again, you’re suggesting that people would have bought Xboxes to play Crackdown 3, Bleeding Edge, Quantum Break, Ryse, or other shit games. Look at how poorly Halo 5 sold compared to 3 and they’re both exclusives.

Evidence disagrees with your assessment.

So basically, you didn't read what I said or are too retarded to get the point.
Gotcha.

You're talking about a completely different issue for MS that's in addition to what I'm saying.

 

[Gaiff]

So basically, you didn't read what I said or are too retarded to get the point.
Gotcha.

You're talking about a completely different issue for MS that's in addition to what I'm saying.

No, I’m saying PC ports have fuck-all to do with their decline. You keep repeating it does, yet fail to bring up anything to back up this claim. Fanboy speak on Twitter or Gaf isn’t evidence.

 

[GHound]

Good for them. I hope Sony follows the infinite growth.

 

[DenchDeckard]

No, I’m saying PC ports have fuck-all to do with their decline. You keep repeating it does, yet fail to bring up anything to back up this claim. Fanboy speak on Twitter or Gaf isn’t evidence.

Pc is part of their downfall, but like you have said there was considerable damage before and during. There are many factors as to why they have failed in the console business.

 

[Gaiff]

Pc is part of their downfall,

No, it wasn’t.

but like you have said there was considerable damage before and during. There are many factors as to why they have failed in the console business.

Yes, the E3 fiasco and trying to sell TVs as opposed to games. The used games debacle that Sony used against them. The mandatory Kinect that was removed a year later. The $500 price tag vs the more powerful $400 PS4. Losing COD exclusivity deals. Sony’s much more aggressive practices to make PS+ better than Xbox Live Gold which was a huge reason to own an Xbox. The shut down of multiple studios such as Lionhead. The failed relationship with Bungie who developed their flagship franchise and so on.

PC ports have 0 to do with their downfall and you guys can keep repeating it and still be incorrect. When asked for proof, all I got was, "Well, fanboys said they no longer had reasons to own an Xbox."

 

[Killjoy-NL]

No, I’m saying PC ports have fuck-all to do with their decline. You keep repeating it does, yet fail to bring up anything to back up this claim. Fanboy speak on Twitter or Gaf isn’t evidence.

It's part of it. Marketing/PR/messaging.

You are using one of their issues to somehow dismiss another, while it's actually both issues on top of eachother, as well as issues like GamePass.

 

[ClosBSAS]

Doesn’t work for single player games

HFW bombed on PC

Only makes sense for GaaS titles

It didnt bomb...45k ccu is at least 400k copies, that already is profit and free money for sony. Tsushima looks like its gonna sell better and in the long run they are gonna keep selling so nah, not a bomb like you would like it to be.

 

[MikeM]

Possibly but Sony would have to actually take the risk to assess this and they don't seem willing to. It's really a risk vs reward situation. Are those extra PC customers enough to offset what we'd lose by having our games Day 1 on PC? So far, it seems that the answer is no.


Honestly, I might do that as well. I played Ragnarok after replaying 2018 on PC on my 2080 Ti at 3440x1440 at over 100fps with Reflex. Going back to 30-40fps at 1080p on an LCD for Ragnarok was quite a stark contrast. The game just felt too slow and unresponsive. I then went back to 2018 and played it on my 4090 at 165fps and 3440x1440 on an OLED monitor with the DLAA mod.

Yeah, the PS4 Pro experience doesn't quite measure up lol. I would need the PS5 Pro at the very least.

Sony seems to be increasing their investments in PC so we will see what happens. The new overlay on Ghosts is interesting. I wonder if they will go as far as a storefront.

How’d you get such low FPS and resolutions with Ragnarok? I played it on my C1 and was around 80-95 fps.

 

[Fabieter]

The downfall of Xbox began years before they started their PC ports so you're wrong. The PC ports started in 2016, but Microsoft stopped reporting sales numbers in 2015 out of sheer embarrassment because they had been terrible for years. The whole E3 fiasco was years before the PC ports.

So, no. You are the revisionist because we know for a FACT that Xbox sales were cratering long before the PC initiative. The PC ports were seen as a remedy to the problem. It's not like Xbox was doing well, started doing PC ports, and then the descent began. We had it in front of our eyes but you guys like to pretend that a bunch of shit games for a decade+ isn't the number 1 reason that this brand is failing. The rest isn't even relevant. Your games suck? Your console will tank. End of the story.

Make a list of all the Xbox exclusives that came out between 2011-2015 and have a laugh. Hell, some consoles that flopped worse than the X1 and SX such as the Gamecube and Dreamcast had way better games either console ever did, but you insist that PC has anything to do with their problems?

Please.

Of course it started earlier but excellent exclusive in the second half would have saved the console. But their games that generation weren't just good enough or just didn't hit the eight zeitgeist. Sony fucked up the first part of the ps3 even worse and managed to come back simply because of alot of great exclusives.

 

[SmokedMeat]

PCMR in shambles

He’s literally coddling you insecure PlayStation fans, and you can’t even see it.

 

[Gaiff]

It's part of it. Marketing/PR/messaging.

No, fanboys on Twitter are just fanboys lol.

You are using one of their issues to somehow dismiss another, while it's actually both issues on top of eachother, as well as issues like GamePass.

You’ll have to do better than Twitter idiots to back up your point.

Microsoft even claimed that the Series X/S were their fastest-selling consoles yet.

https://www.ign.com/articles/xbox-s...consoles-in-xbox-history-almost-two-years-in#

And at one point, it was doing a decent job keeping up with the PS5. Why would it hit the ground running when people knew all of their exclusives were coming to PC anyway? It should have done worse than its predecessors that had confirmed exclusives.

I’ll reiterate: PC ports have nothing to do with why Xbox is failing. It’s not even a reason. If the games were actually good, it’d be worth debating. As it stands, they might even be the reason more studios haven’t been shut down.

 

[Fabieter]

No, fanboys on Twitter are just fanboys lol.

You’ll have to do better than Twitter idiots to back up your point.

Microsoft even claimed that the Series X/S were their fastest-selling consoles yet.

https://www.ign.com/articles/xbox-s...consoles-in-xbox-history-almost-two-years-in#

And at one point, it was doing a decent job keeping up with the PS5. Why would it hit the ground running when people knew all of their exclusives were coming to PC anyway? It should have done worse than its predecessors that had confirmed exclusives.

I’ll reiterate: PC ports have nothing to do with why Xbox is failing. It’s not even a reason. If the games were actually good, it’d be worth debating. As it stands, they might even be the reason more studios haven’t been shut down.

I means is that's just PR without context. Xbone and 360 sold not that good early on and series x and s had great help from covid and the fact people couldn't buy ps5s the first few years.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

No, fanboys on Twitter are just fanboys lol.

You’ll have to do better than Twitter idiots to back up your point.

Microsoft even claimed that the Series X/S were their fastest-selling consoles yet.

https://www.ign.com/articles/xbox-s...consoles-in-xbox-history-almost-two-years-in#

And at one point, it was doing a decent job keeping up with the PS5. Why would it hit the ground running when people knew all of their exclusives were coming to PC anyway? It should have done worse than its predecessors that had confirmed exclusives.

I’ll reiterate: PC ports have nothing to do with why Xbox is failing. It’s not even a reason. If the games were actually good, it’d be worth debating. As it stands, they might even be the reason more studios haven’t been shut down.

Cool, and their whole marketing for Xbox this gen has been "play anywhere you don't need an Xbox" and people have been listening.

What is there not to understand about that being part of MS' issues?

This even got me to agree with DenchDeckard , because even he can acknowledge it.

You're a weird one. I'm out.

 

[Gaiff]

I means is that's just PR without context. Xbone and 360 sold not that good early on and series x and s had great help from covid and the fact people couldn't buy ps5s the first few years.

Both Series X and PS5 faced shortages and as you said, 360 didn’t do that amazingly early on. Xbox One did pretty well though.

The point remains that the Series X initially did very well despite pretty much all of its games coming to PC or even last-gen platforms (as there were no exclusives in the first two years if I remember). So the point that it would have sold better had its games not been on PC rings hollow.

Cool, and their whole marketing for Xbox this gen has been "play anywhere you don't need an Xbox" and people have been listening.

Then people have been listening since like 2011.

What is there not to understand about that being part of MS' issues?

This even got me to agree with DenchDeckard , because even he can acknowledge it.

You're a weird one. I'm out.

And what part about being incorrect don't you understand? We got a mountain of evidence from declining sales numbers to the competition porting their games to PC, yet you insist that not porting a bunch of trash games to PC would have improved the Xbox's position.

 

[Fabieter]

Both Series X and PS5 faced shortages and as you said, 360 didn’t do that amazingly early on. Xbox One did pretty well though.

The point remains that the Series X initially did very well despite pretty much all of its games coming to PC or even last-gen platforms (as there were no exclusives in the first two years if I remember). So the point that it would have sold better had its games not been on PC rings hollow.


Then people have been listening since like 2011.

And what part about being incorrect don't you understand? We got a mountain of evidence from declining sales numbers to the competition porting their games to PC, yet you insist that not porting a bunch of trash games to PC would have improved the Xbox's position.

You could buy series s in most parts of the world the entire time. It definitely also helped having a more budget console early on. All things considered a comparison with other Microsoft don't work at all.

I mean they had games coming but they were cross platform and the best version day one was on pc so to say no one would have considered buying a series x console for it is definitely false.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Both Series X and PS5 faced shortages and as you said, 360 didn’t do that amazingly early on. Xbox One did pretty well though.

The point remains that the Series X initially did very well despite pretty much all of its games coming to PC or even last-gen platforms (as there were no exclusives in the first two years if I remember). So the point that it would have sold better had its games not been on PC rings hollow.


Then people have been listening since like 2011.

And what part about being incorrect don't you understand? We got a mountain of evidence from declining sales numbers to the competition porting their games to PC, yet you insist that not porting a bunch of trash games to PC would have improved the Xbox's position.

Word of mouth.

 

[Gaiff]

You could buy series s in most parts of the world the entire time. It definitely also helped having a more budget console early on. All things considered a comparison with other Microsoft don't work at all.

All consoles faced shortages, including the Series S. There were just more of them to go around.

And yes, the console comparison perfectly works. While you may argue the Series X got a boost from covid, it also had the problem of having all of its games available on the Xbox One, PS4, PS5, and PC (which was astronomically bigger in 2021 than it was in 2014, let alone 2007). The Xbox One and Xbox 360 did not face such strong competition, yet the Series X/S still outsold them.

So, nah, not buying for one second that not porting their games to PC would have made a difference.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

, it also had the problem of having all of its games available on the Xbox One, PS4, PS5, and PC.

So, games being available on more platforms can be problem.

You really are a special kind of stupid, huh?

And don't go "but those were 3rd party", because the principle of the matter still stands:
Bringing games to more platforms can devalue the console.
Which is closely tied to the Xbox brand.

We're done here now.

 

[crackajack]

No way Sony won't be getting pressure from shareholders for that day 1 release going forward.

day 1 on PC for other MP games maybe, which might be relatively many games with their coming GaaS focus, but anything else is needed to drive the console business. And before a Sony PC store is not at least a working option they won't (should not imho) risk their core business and also risking losing the 30% of everyone else. The Sony overlay for whatever gets released soon is imho a first step, but if they want to get proper serious on PC they will have their own store, maybe everything cross buy with PS5, PS6 etc. but only on their own thing.

Funny that PC became so big lately, while iirc in the 90s it was more a European thing, with Germany at the core but also Eastern Europe rather strong on PC and lacking in console sales.

 

[Fabieter]

All consoles faced shortages, including the Series S. There were just more of them to go around.

And yes, the console comparison perfectly works. While you may argue the Series X got a boost from covid, it also had the problem of having all of its games available on the Xbox One, PS4, PS5, and PC (which was astronomically bigger in 2021 than it was in 2014, let alone 2007). The Xbox One and Xbox 360 did not face such strong competition, yet the Series X/S still outsold them.

So, nah, not buying for one second that not porting their games to PC would have made a difference.

Well I dont know where are you from but there wasn't any real shortage in Asia and Europe. We had covid almost double media consumption, in fact companys overhired so much that we still feel the correction from it. And 360 sold really bad early on because still weren't on board. Halo 3 came like 2 years later and changed the perception.

Anyway there is no way to know for sure but exclusives always helped media and still do to this day. I know its not a 1:1 comparison but I would just sub to the best streaming service if any show would be on any platform.

 

[feynoob]

You guys are revisionists. We had people complaining about how bringing games to PC day 1 would make xbox consoles obsolete for years.
People are even literally saying that consoles are dying for that reason.

And obviously it's a bunch of reasons that all caused the downfall, like their games output, but the message has been "you don't need an Xbox" for years.

And if you don't think so, you can just look at any PS PC game thread where people keep saying that if Sony would just bring all their games to PC day 1, they won't need a Playstation console anymore.

Yeah right. People who console war would always complain about bringing games to other platforms.

The reality is each device offers different taste. They can coexist. People won't ditch PS because their games are on PC.

Console is for purpose. It's why it always sells a lot. While PC requires investment.

 

[Fabieter]

Yeah right. People who console war would always complain about bringing games to other platforms.

The reality is each device offers different taste. They can coexist. People won't ditch PS because their games are on PC.

Console is for purpose. It's why it always sells a lot. While PC requires investment.

Pc doesn't require investment and no going forward consoles besides nintendo won't be there anymore at least as we know them.

 

[Gaiff]

So, games being available on more platforms can be problem.

When the hell did I say that it couldn't? I literally told you the following:

If the games were actually good, it’d be worth debating.

You really are a special kind of stupid, huh?

Careful now, your mom might take your computer away knowing that you insult people online.

And don't go "but those were 3rd party", because the principle of the matter still stands:
Bringing games to more platforms can devalue the console.
Which is closely tied to the Xbox brand.

If those games are any good, yes, if they aren't, no, which has been my point all along. The Series X/S had better launches than the Xbox One and Xbox 360 despite facing far stronger competition from the PC platform. The fact that it did better than them despite having no exclusives to speak of completely shuts down your point of them declining because of PC ports. They were doing better against a Steam with 130M users in 2021 than a Steam with 15M users in 2008. Surely, if PC ports were such a problem for Xbox, then the 130M users should have swallowed the Xbox brand whole, not make it sell better. The numbers don't match your claims.

We're done here now.

You said that like 3 times. Just leave already.

Well I dont know where are you from but there wasn't any real shortage in Asia and Europe. We had covid almost double media consumption, in fact companys overhired so much that we still feel the correction from it. And 360 sold really bad early on because still weren't on board. Halo 3 came like 2 years later and changed the perception.

Microsoft themselves said there were shortages and it was for all consoles. There were multiple reports. The Series S was much easier to find but still regularly ran out of stock.

Anyway there is no way to know for sure but exclusives always helped media and still do to this day. I know its not a 1:1 comparison but I would just sub to the best streaming service if any show would be on any platform.

And I never said exclusives don't help, they do. What I'm arguing is that bad exclusives don't move the needle at all. If Xbox had a bunch of games that routinely scored 90+ on Metacritic and received much fanfare but still failed to move units, then PC hurting their console business would be a legitimate question. They release a bunch of shit games for years but also port them to PC. In this case, keeping them exclusive to Xbox would have made no difference whatsoever because people don't care about bad games, exclusives or not. I can guarantee you, PlayStation would also flop if they released mediocre games for over 10 years straight, even if they kept them exclusive.

I'm in this very thread claiming over and over again that day 1 exclusives to PC would hurt the PlayStation brand, but that's because their games are actually worth buying and DO convince people to invest in a console to play them. God of War, Horizon, Uncharted, Ghost of Tsushima, The Last of Us, etc. These games will compel people to buy your consoles, but if you port them to PC at launch, this will encourage customers to ignore your consoles in favor of PC. Ryse, Quantum Break, Crackdown 3, Gears 43, Halo Infinite, etc, won't convince anyone to buy your console because they mostly suck and people don't buy bad games just because they're unavailable elsewhere.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Yeah right. People who console war would always complain about bringing games to other platforms.

Yes, because platformholders bringing their 1st party output to other platforms can devalue their console.

The reality is each device offers different taste. They can coexist. People won't ditch PS because their games are on PC.

They can coexist if they have their own specific demographic, like PC, Nintendo (Switch) and Playstation.

Playstation and Xbox can't coexist, because they fight for the very same demographic.

And people might not ditch their PS because of PC releases, but it does devalue the brand, even more so if they release on PC day 1 for all games.

It's a slippery slope that Sony is careful to tread, because with Xbox as example, it can spiral out of control before you know it.
And as Sony has stated and insinuated over and over, contrary to MS, consoles are still the core of their business.

Console is for purpose. It's why it always sells a lot. While PC requires investment.

Sure, nobody is denying that.

It's all about how the brand perceived.

 

[KaiserBecks]

You guys are revisionists. We had people complaining about how bringing games to PC day 1 would make xbox consoles obsolete for years.
People are even literally saying that consoles are dying for that reason.

The same people told MS they had abandoned the PC crowd and were only interested in the console market. The funny thing is, none of those guys buy MS games either way.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

When the hell did I say that it couldn't? I literally told you the following:

If the games were actually good, it’d be worth debating.

Careful now, your mom might take your computer away knowing that you insult people online.

If those games are any good, yes, if they aren't, no, which has been my point all along. The Series X/S had better launches than the Xbox One and Xbox 360 despite facing far stronger competition from the PC platform. The fact that it did better than them despite having no exclusives to speak of completely shuts down your point of them declining because of PC ports. They were doing better against a Steam with 130M users in 2021 than a Steam with 15M users in 2008. Surely, if PC ports were such a problem for Xbox, then the 130M users should have swallowed the Xbox brand whole, not make it sell better. The numbers don't match your claims.

You said that like 3 times. Just leave already.

Microsoft themselves said there were shortages and it was for all consoles. There were multiple reports. The Series S was much easier to find but still regularly ran out of stock.

And I never said exclusives don't help, they do. What I'm arguing is that bad exclusives don't move the needle at all. If Xbox had a bunch of games that routinely scored 90+ on Metacritic and received much fanfare but still failed to move units, then PC hurting their console business would be a legitimate question. They release a bunch of shit games for years but also port them to PC. In this case, keeping them exclusive to Xbox would have made no difference whatsoever because people don't care about bad games, exclusives or not. I can guarantee you, PlayStation would also flop if they released mediocre games for over 10 years straight, even if they kept them exclusive.

I'm in this very thread claiming over and over again that day 1 exclusives to PC would hurt the PlayStation brand, but that's because their games are actually worth buying and DO convince people to invest in a console to play them. God of War, Horizon, Uncharted, Ghost of Tsushima, The Last of Us, etc. These games will compel people to buy your consoles, but if you port them to PC at launch, this will encourage customers to ignore your consoles in favor of PC. Ryse, Quantum Break, Crackdown 3, Gears 43, Halo Infinite, etc, won't convince anyone to buy your console because they mostly suck and people don't buy bad games just because they're unavailable elsewhere.

I always have hope people will see the light, especially when they themselves say pretty much the same as me without realizing it.

But you bring up an interesting point:
I'm willing to bet there is a correlation between quality of Xbox games declining and putting them on PC day 1.

 

[Gaiff]

I always have hope people will see the light, especially when they themselves say pretty much the same as me without realizing it.

I mean this is what I've been saying all along. You seemed to have misconstrued my argument as, "Exclusives don't move consoles." No, my argument was, "Bad exclusives don't move consoles."

But you bring up an interesting point:
I'm willing to bet there is a correlation between quality of Xbox games declining and putting them on PC day 1.

Simultaneous PC releases do lead to a lack of polish, yes. However, the problem with Xbox's games isn't even their lack of polish. They just ain't good for the most part. I think that this stems from the fact that studios can no longer pump out AAA games in 1-3 years like during the PS360 generation. We're talking 3 years at the very least but more than likely around 5 years. Sony's first-party studios have been with them for decades. Naughty Dog, Santa Monica, Insomniac, and a few others have over 20 years at PlayStation. Xbox, on the contrary, either sacked/lost their most experienced people/studios such as Bungie, or shut down their most important studios such as Lionhead. You can't just make up for people with 10, 15, or 20 years of experience by buying out studios. It would simply take Microsoft too long to reestablish all of their AAA developers, and the top brass is having none of that. So what can you do? Release bad to decent games and port them to PC because you cannot build a studio and wait 5-10 years for them to get it together to start producing GOTY hits.

I'll say it again, if Xbox had great games but still flopped, I would wholeheartedly agree that PC ports hurt them. As things stand though? PC probably helps those mediocre titles reach a wider audience.

 

[squarealex]

Yes, Gamalytic. It's been proven to be extremely accurate over and over again. By the leaked Sony numbers no less. As well as others like Palworld, Last Epoch, etc...

20 millions on PC and 20 millions on PS5, that's 40 millions for HellDivers 2?

Are you lost your mind? Ther's no way the game got 20 miilions on each plateform

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I mean this is what I've been saying all along. You seemed to have misconstrued my argument as, "Exclusives don't move consoles." No, my argument was, "Bad exclusives don't move consoles."

Simultaneous PC releases do lead to a lack of polish, yes. However, the problem with Xbox's games isn't even their lack of polish. They just ain't good for the most part. I think that this stems from the fact that studios can no longer pump out AAA games in 1-3 years like during the PS360 generation. We're talking 3 years at the very least but more than likely around 5 years. Sony's first-party studios have been with them for decades. Naughty Dog, Santa Monica, Insomniac, and a few others have over 20 years at PlayStation. Xbox, on the contrary, either sacked/lost their most experienced people/studios such as Bungie, or shut down their most important studios such as Lionhead. You can't just make up for people with 10, 15, or 20 years of experience by buying out studios. It would simply take Microsoft too long to reestablish all of their AAA developers, and the top brass is having none of that. So what can you do? Release bad to decent games and port them to PC because you cannot build a studio and wait 5-10 years for them to get it together to start producing GOTY hits.

I'll say it again, if Xbox had great games but still flopped, I would wholeheartedly agree that PC ports hurt them. As things stand though? PC probably helps those mediocre titles reach a wider audience.

You're not wrong. And it's not PC ports that's the issue, it's day 1 PC that's an issue. It sends a bad signal to consumers.
Exclusivity leads to FOMO.

Hence why Sony will not do it for their singleplayer titles (i.e. flagship titles). There is little to gain, much to lose.

 

[Markio128]

Are folk actually using Helldivers 2 PC success as a barometer for day 1 PS games?

It’s an ideal game for the PC market, and it’s as simple as that really, at least in my mind. There is no evidence to suggest that Sony should, or need, to release all their games day 1. It’s just wishful thinking.