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May 7th | UK General Election 2015 OT - Please go vote!

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I

industrian

will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Dan27 said:
I wont be voting UKIP either.

My experience of the Greens (after several emails to and from my local party representative) paints a picture of a party who's policies are deeply misjudged and deeply mis-communicated to it's own members. They are a shambles of a party.
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The Greens are in that wondrous stage for a political party that's just starting up and getting their shit together. So many conflicting ideas, so many potential ways to do things, and no qualified statesmen to get the message across and to work for them on a national and international level.

The SNP were in a similar situation up until the 90s. Severe factionalism, groups that preferred a progressive path to independence compared to guys that essentially wanted a UDI, right-wing elements and left-wing elements. Then they got their shit together, and combined with having MPs and MSPs were able to get a number of qualified statesmen compared to the rabble they started out with. And in doing so they've transformed into essentially the only mainstream socialist party left in the UK.

The Greens also inhabit that magical area for ultra-liberal agendas where 50% of their policies are blatant utopianism and the other 50% a mishmash of fringe ideas, existing policies, and stuff that will make them unelectable in most parts of the country. Their highest aspirations for the next 4 elections should be to supplant the Liberal Democrats in receiving protest votes and votes from wide-eyed young idealists. After that time we'll see if they're built to last.

giant_frying_pan said:
I'm all for more women leaders in politics, but the Greens need to get Patrick Harvie up to the big job. I don't think he'd want to leave Holyrood though.
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That and they're two different parties.
 
K

kmag

Member
Tory benefit cut proposals leaked to the Beeb.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32084722

Taxing Disability benefits, but I thought Dave respected disabled people?


Oh and there's another expenses scandal brewing. 46 MP's (from all parties) claimed for hotels or rent in London despite owning properties which taxpayers contributed to in London.

Labour's shadow culture minister Chris Bryant claimed expenses of £35,350 in 2012/13 and 2013/14 to rent a London flat - despite already owning a penthouse in the capital. He bought the property in 2005, claiming around £1,000 a month in mortgage claims. But when the rules changed he let it out. Estate agent brochures show the two-bed apartment with a private lift and porter has since been marketed for rent for around £3,000 a month.

Conservative MP and former health secretary Andrew Lansley jointly owns a flat in upmarket Pimlico with his wife, bought with help from mortgage claims. But since 2013 he's claimed £7,440 to stay in London hotels. The MP for South Cambridgeshire does not let his flat out, but has instead made room for his daughter who has used the property to launch a business.
Click to expand...

http://www.channel4.com/news/mps-expenses-46-claim-in-london-despite-owning-a-property
 
K

kmag

Member
Channel 4 digging out the oldest poshest Tory they could find to try and defend fleecing the taxpayer. Old cunt.
 
V

Volotaire

Member
Updated with the rules of this thread and a lot more 2010 UK general election videos and content if you want to take a trip down memory lane. I am still updating other parts in the meantime, but I think the rules were needed due to some of the posts in the past day.

___________________________________________________________

Rules
___________________________________________________________

- Do not attack someone because of their party affiliation. We should be above party partisan politics. Policies should, logically, dictate a poster's party affiliation
- There is no need for you to post or reveal your party affiliation or who you have voted for in the past. If you are feeling pressurised into doing so, please feel free to contact a mod
- If you are claiming something in an argument, use poll data, ONS/OBR/etc. statistics to support your argument
- Take into consideration the limitations of your data sources and the statistical methods that are employed. In particular, the way polling data is constructed and how economists use economic data/use particular data or measures to support their argument should be considered. Economic history and history can be perceived as post modernist, and economic techniques are not infallible.
- The TOS rules should be abided to
 
S

Snowman

Member
95% labour
94% green
91% lib dem
30% conservatives
25% ukip

So yeah, didn't really help me decide which of those top 3 I should be voting for though, which is what I was hoping for
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Snowman said:
95% labour
94% green
91% lib dem
30% conservatives
25% ukip

So yeah, didn't really help me decide which of those top 3 I should be voting for though, which is what I was hoping for
Click to expand...

Your constituency might solve the rest of the problem. Do you know which one you're in?
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
phisheep said:
Well, that's me and Musha from Cwmbran. And you from ... where exactly?
Click to expand...

Halfway between Abergavenny and Monmouth itself.

One of my old school teachers is standing for UKIP to be your MP, incidentally.
 
E

Empty

Member
97% labour
94% green
85% lib dem
34% conservative
33% ukip

was planning on voting labour, especially as my seat is a tory-labour marginal and the labour candidate seems v. cool with genuine academic credibility (also as a curiosity, the sister in law of charlie brooker)
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
phisheep said:
Not quite the industrial heartlands then. More sheep. Gotcha.
Click to expand...

Sheep, hills, and boredom. I spend most of my time back home in Cardiff, to be honest. I love Cardiff, severely under-rated city. Wouldn't mind living there one day.
 
W

WayneMorse

Banned
1000.jpg
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Volotaire said:
Great idea.
Click to expand...

Greens have already put their manifesto up, so that one could be done. I think you could also probably rewrite the Green's and Plaid's blurb, they seem a bit negative and uninformative respectively compared to the other five.
 
V

Volotaire

Member
Crab said:
Greens have already put their manifesto up, so that one could be done. I think you could also probably rewrite the Green's and Plaid's blurb, they seem a bit negative and uninformative respectively compared to the other five.
Click to expand...

Will do! Thanks.
 
Marc

Marc

Member
Huw_Dawson said:
PR is dead. The rich want a revolving door of Lab and Con to parade around whilst they make their money. They want stable and controllable pseudo-democracy.

The only major party that wants to change that is the LDs and nobody wants to vote for them because tuition fees.
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Can Lib Dems be considered a major party considering the PR polling of UKIP and Greens, both of which seem like they want PR for obvious reasons.

I do wish people would stop voting tactically, nothing will ever change if they do that. So what if the seat goes to your complete opposite, it could be a closer run thing and they will know that and the people voting will know that for next time. You would also count towards any PR polling data which would undermine any government's right to govern if significant enough.



As for the recent 'debate', I found it all a bit of a show and not really what is needed. They got to avoid major concerns of people like their records on spying on us and got a pass on immigration which is one of the top issues for voters. Very little follow up or follow through apart from the odd question. I didn't think Cameron was as bad people are saying, nor Miliband as good... they come off as two sides of the same coin. They one point of Milibands which was very good and he should definitely emphasize more was his standing up to Murdoch, Energy Companies and the top 1% of earners. That does take guts to do and despite looking like he was going to cry at times, that was a forceful point and something I agree with him on. And I did think Paxo crossed the line with the last part of the interview, way too personal.
 
phisheep

phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
kmag said:
Tory benefit cut proposals leaked to the Beeb.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32084722

Taxing Disability benefits, but I thought Dave respected disabled people?
Click to expand...

They're proposals, not policy so far. And, so far as I can see, proposals prepared for - not by - the Conservatives.

Besides, they may not be all bad. For example, bringing benefits into the tax system might (and I do emphasise the might here) be a sane way of tapering off - rather than removing entirely - benefits for those in gainful employment. A big problem at the moment is the abrupt removal of benefits on only the slightest indication of income. A lot depends on what thresholds are applied.

IF (and again note the if) the personal tax allowance were greater than the maximum benefit, then I can't see that this would significantly disadvantage anyone in real need.

Oh and there's another expenses scandal brewing. 46 MP's (from all parties) claimed for hotels or rent in London despite owning properties which taxpayers contributed to in London.
Click to expand...

Now who was it in this thread (or maybe the other one) who suggested that funding political parties out of general taxation would make politics honest?
 
V

Volotaire

Member
Included all parties that have at least one House of Commons representative (Respect, Senn Fein, etc). I'm still surprised the DUP are not in the seven party debate.

EDIT: Timetable is now a picture, added a few electoral maps, countdown clock, polling websites updated and archive links to the Scottish referendum and EU Elections 2014.
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
I'm thinking of hosting a general election night party at my flat in London. I'm not inviting you all or anything (though of anyone wants to come, there welcome! Which I guess sort of is an invite) but if a friend of yours was hosting such a party, would you a) go and b) what would you want there? Pizza, beer and doritos? A night at the pub before watching just the returning votes? An evening of hilarious political quizzes?
 
I

industrian

will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
As I'm in Australia (10 hours ahead) I'll be in a good position to see the results come in live.

I was in Korea during the 2010 election, and since it coincided with my school's sports day I was able to watch it all unfold.

The highlight of course was watching the Scottish 2011 election live when I was working in Taiwan. Having to explain to my colleagues why I kept shouting out "WHAT THE FUCK?!" at random intervals was amusing.
 
P

Psychotext

Member
Checking in to say that for the first time in 18 years I probably wont be voting, or if I do, I'll likely be spoiling my ballot.

Funny thing is, my local seat was won by just four votes last time around, but I can't even begin to tell you the contempt I have for all of the main contenders this time around.

I can't even bring myself to protest vote for the greens because half of their policies are utterly ridiculous.
 
I

industrian

will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
I'd go for Labour minority government at this point. Or maybe Labour + Lib Dem + Green coalition.

Whatever the case I hope that the SNP stay the fuck away from any coalition. They can support a minority Labour government on certain issues, but no official pact or coalition. Junior partners of coalitions are always given the brunt of the blame when things go south. That and the potential for a repeat of 1979.
 
Q

QuicheFontaine

Member
industrian said:
I'd go for Labour minority government at this point. Or maybe Labour + Lib Dem + Green coalition.

Whatever the case I hope that the SNP stay the fuck away from any coalition. They can support a minority Labour government on certain issues, but no official pact or coalition. Junior partners of coalitions are always given the brunt of the blame when things go south. That and the potential for a repeat of 1979.
Click to expand...

I don't think you need to worry about that. There doesn't appear to be an appetite for such a coalition on either side. It'd just be a supply and confidence arrangement.

I think the last five years support your point about junior partners. The Lib Dems have basically been a punching bag.
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
I'm wondering if that results from FPTP. I may want to vote Liberal but if they're going to join a coalition to put Conservatives in power I'd rather vote Labour to keep conservatives out of power or vice versa. So the junior partner gets hammered way more because you aren't just voting for the party but also the potential government.

Contrast this with a mixed system like Germany and...well, okay, FDP is a bad example.
 
I

industrian

will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
benjipwns said:
I'm wondering if that results from FPTP. I may want to vote Liberal but if they're going to join a coalition to put Conservatives in power I'd rather vote Labour to keep conservatives out of power or vice versa.
Click to expand...

The Lib Dems don't care. They'll just as easily jump into bed with Labour as much as they would the Tories. It all depends on who has the biggest election and can poll the hardest. The Lib Dems will then easily give them that final umph to make their partners all come together.

If your main concern is keeping the Tories out of power, as much as I hate saying it: vote tactically. See who would benefit the most from your vote, bend over to mark an X in the box, and think of England.
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
Oh, I was just using the parties in a hypothetical wondering if it's the system that promotes the junior coalition partners getting whacked. Not really anything to do with the reality of the parties but as you note tactical voting.

Just the idea that, say you live in a riding that's:
40% Liberal
30% Conservative
20% Labour
10% Other

You can have a good chance at a Liberal MP (which you want), but if you think that'll lead to a Tory-LD government for whatever reason (which you don't want), then your (and others like you) real choice is Labour. If you can get 11% of the Liberal vote over to Labour (or whatever combination to get Labour above the Liberals) that's +1 Labour MP and one less seat for a potential Tory-LD coalition. So the Liberals get whacked hard in this election, but they're still likely the dominant party there so in later elections that's how they spring back to gain the seat. Which is why they continue to exist as a potential junior partner from time to time despite getting the brunt of the blame.

In other words, I responded to your post with the same thing you said only longer and more complex.
 
H

Huw_Dawson

Member
industrian said:
The Lib Dems don't care. They'll just as easily jump into bed with Labour as much as they would the Tories. It all depends on who has the biggest election and can poll the hardest. The Lib Dems will then easily give them that final umph to make their partners all come together.
Click to expand...

Strong language for what is simply smart politics. Five years ago for the LDs there wasn't any prospect of anything other than a coalition with the Tories or a minority Tory government calling a snap election a few months down the line. Like it or not the LDs chose the better choice. I'd rather have my party be battered by the left than have left Cameron alone with the keys for five years.

This election might be closer. Even if (as a poster put above) UKIP and the Greens might well end up polling at similar or better numbers to the LDs, they will end up on few to no seats each. The LDs will be holding their more secure seats and this is the wrong election to predict a seat collapse for them. That'd be next time.

Anyway, if the LDs end up with the balance of power, they may or may not choose to just jump into bed with Labour on principle of them getting more votes or slightly more seats or something. If Labour offers a better package of LD policies and priorities then they'll go with that - they'll be representing the interests of the LD voter more.

I know people really hate the LDs - Clegg in particular - for (at this point) personal reasons but they will at least choose a coalition which is best for the interests of their voters. Looking at the Labour policies (which include reducing tuition fees amongst other things) that might end up being Labour this time around.

I am putting this out as a LD member BTW but I have no greater reference or source than my own speculation.
 
W

Whitechocolatekrispies

Banned
WayneMorse said:
1000.jpg
Click to expand...

Point 1, directly contradicts the remaining points.

Point 2, probably the only valid point, but even then we'll see.

Point 3, where are they going to find them? Claims like this are utter bullshit and need to be shot down. You can't just pull 20 000 nurses out the woodwork, 8000 GP's ... plus who is going to pay for that? (see point 1). Guaranteeing an appointment within 48 hours is hilarious as well, talk about not knowing how broken your system already is. Oh and cancer tests within a week? Have they spoken to a single pathologist in this country? They are already working at 120% capacity. How the fuck is labour going to cut the NHS deficit, increase nurse and GP numbers and guarantee faster cancer diagnosis from an already strained breaking system? If Point 1 was 'borrow fuck ton of money to try and fix our NHS' this point might be at least not terrible.

Point 4, HAAAAAA, yes we believe you labour ... you totally will follow through with that.

Point 5, Again where are you going to get the money for more teachers? Have they spoken to teachers in this country? The system is utterly broken and failing. How are we going to get more apprentices, which they want to pay even more by the way.


Labour seriously needs to sort itself out, right now they are just a bunch empty headed career politicians that have no credible understanding of the way this world actually works. They are scrambling to get power by promising us whatever we want to hear, not by telling us how things are and how things need to get fixed.


How about some politicians stand up and talk about something that actually matters to us. Like decriminalising drugs, balancing our heavily biased (towards the wealthy) courts and sorting out the rampant wage gap that is appearing. The NHS is a bloated broken system that is impossible to fix, it just needs money and been left alone. Anyone promising a fix this election is talking bullshit.
 
M

Mr. Sam

Member
Clegg essentially had the following choices at the end of the last general election:

1) Form a coalition with the Conservatives, who had the largest vote share and therefore the largest mandate.

2) Form a coalition with Labour and a smaller third party, which would've meant only a very small majority government, a less stable government and a much smaller mandate. It should also be noted that Labour demonstrated next to no interest in such an arrangement.

3) Sit on his hands and let the Conservatives run the country with a minority government/wait for another election to be called if that proved unworkable.

Basically, the Lib Dems were stuck between a rock and a hard place and went with the most sensible option. You can criticise their decisions since then (although I think people often fail to take into account that they're the junior partners in a coalition) but that initial one makes sense. People paint Clegg as some power-hungry monster that wanted into government at any price. Yeah, politicians are dicks but very rarely are they actually Skeletor.
 
K

Kotetsu534

Member
I voted Lib Dem in 2010 in hopes they would secure English students the same protection from tuition fees that I enjoyed in Scotland (as I believed, and still do believe, the prevailing situation to be manifestly unfair). Well, I learned my lesson.

If the Tories do get a majority, I wonder where the huge cuts in welfare will come from, and whether they can be done without significant backlash. Even the leaked policy proposals would not cover more than half of the proposed £12bn cuts. Regional caps, child benefit limits, carer's allowance restictions, disability benefits subject to taxation, a freeze on in-work benefits, and that would only be the start. I assume they would need to go after Housing Benefit or Pensions to get anywhere close to their target - a significant cut to the former would, I think, see sparks fly.
 
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