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Media Create Sales: Week 36, 2013 (Sep 02 - Sep 08)

Lesiroth

Member
It'll be outselling 3DS soon enough, right?
Thrive != Dominate

And I don't seeing it thriving anytime soon. Not with the current line-up, are there any big hitters announced for it other than PSN?

At least Sony does have some sort of plan for it with Vita TV, so they're not leaving it to a slow death. I guess it depends on their execution now.
 

Frodo

Member
Thrive != Dominate

And I don't seeing it thriving anytime soon. Not with the current line-up, are there any big hitters announced for it other than PSN?

Biggest games now are FFX/FFX-2, God Eater 2, and the newly announced Phantasy Star Nova.

FFX and FFX-2 are also coming out for the PS3 in a single disk, GE2 is coming out on the PSP. Only exclusive is PSN.
 

DaBoss

Member
Soul Sacrifice was a mild success? It sold ~200k units AFAIK and if you consider Dragon's Crown and Fantasy Life as success, how is SS mild success? =/
It even has a updated release next year and a sequel is likely to hit in 2015.
Should have sold more for the support it got in terms of marketing and was riding the initial wave of the price cut.
Fantasy Life and Dragon's Crown are different games not even MH related and the former launched near Animal Crossing.
 
Can you really generalize 250 million people like that though ?. Now I agree with your general point, the smart phone / tablet market has had a significant effect on Nintendo but I see many people using that as an easy way to explain the failure (at first) of 3DS and the current WiiU failure.

The reality of the Nintendo home console business is that older Nintendo fans buy it to play 2D Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Smash Bros, Mario Kart, Donkey Kong and 3D Mario. Newer fans will become interested when the likes of Wii U Fit, Play and Wii Sports 2 are released along with some of those I listed above.

So far the WiiU has only had one of those seven titles release (NSMB U), so it's no surprise that it's sales are pretty bad. This Winter it will get another five of those games with a sixth arriving in Spring, marketing should also drastically improve.

Although the WiiU is a disaster I think some are far to quick to write it off as a complete and utter Virtual Boy like failure before even it's 'killer apps' are released.

People made the same mistake with 3DS and that's about to go above the Wii in lifetime sales. I'm not saying WiiU is going to start selling 100 000 console per week but it's not out of the realm of possibility that it could start selling 20 000 per week once the exclusive games people tend to buy Nintendo platforms for start arriving this Winter.
First of all, 3DS never hit as low as Wii U, not even during its worst months/weeks. Secondly, this is related to sales in Japan so i will be talking about Japan specifically and in that case handhelds are far more bigger in Japan than consoles.

What's more is that 3DS already had strong support from third parties even if it wasn't selling well. It is totally unlike Wii U, whose third party support in Japan has completely dried off now.

Nintendo IPs will come and sell well but don't think that they are going to bring in a large new audience. If anything, the existing audience will be the one who will buy majority of the software. Casual titles like Wii Fit and Wii Sports 2 are just a lost cause at this point.

Should have sold more for the support it got in terms of marketing and was riding the initial wave of the price cut.
Fantasy Life and Dragon's Crown are different games not even MH related and the former launched near Animal Crossing.
While i agree with your point, it got a updated release in 2014 and is even going to get a sequel in 2015. How is that not success? I don't think Sony will try to bleed more money on a failed IP.
 

DaBoss

Member
While i agree with your point, it got a updated release in 2014 and is even going to get a sequel in 2015. How is that not success? I don't think Sony will try to bleed more money on a failed IP.
I didn't say it is a failed IP. Just saying it should've done better. Looking at Toukiden really gives that feeling even if Toukiden is more closer to MH.
They need to change the art direction.
Is it really that bad? It looked fine in the trailers and other promo videos.
 

Madao

Member
Oh so it's not only me.

But really, I've gone at length a few times before, and I think the hybrid idea is possibly the worst possible way to react to their current ordeals. It is downright suicidal and I'm surprised many people are suggesting it.

they don't have to make a hybrid.

just make a decently powered handheld with TV output and the ability to hook up a controller wirelessly.
 

B.O.O.M

Member
Announcing those vita2k models + bundles at this time won't do it any good hardware sales wise. The next 3-4 weeks will be very low..but who knows this might be a permanent thing :S

WiiU hardware...not really much else to say. I don't see this changing outside of a few bumps and major holidays.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
Well yeah, I'm just saying that it might have done worse if there were more vita games being released but 11k is pretty bad already even for a FPS in Japan and I'm sure there are at least some fans of the franchise over there so it may not be a factor. I dunno, supposedly there was some marketing for Puppeteer so I'm at a loss to be honest. Sub 10k is just too bad.
I dont think that Killzone Vita would have done much worse actually, even if there were other games released. The game is pretty good, and i think the 11k sales are more due to a fanbase rather than random people picking it up.
 
Oh so it's not only me.

But really, I've gone at length a few times before, and I think the hybrid idea is possibly the worst possible way to react to their current ordeals. It is downright suicidal and I'm surprised many people are suggesting it.

Honestly, me too, but...
but.
I didn't see it mentioned as a trol-driven post, and the actual situation (not only the Wii U struggles, but the competitors moves in this way as VitaTv, the clear separation between western and japanes market in terms of portable and home preferences, the Nintendo moves to unify portable and home development tools, the Wii U itself with its conception and so on) could lead into that direction for real

the only thing is that it is mentioned in a too simplicistic way (it would be an earthquake for the Nintendo Group, and it would be serious also for us gamers because of the obvious lack of specific development both for HW and SW)

I'm not saying this to defend Nintendo's console business or anything, I'm saying that it makes no sense to create a hybrid because it has way too many disadvantages, some devastating to a company like Nintendo. Here is a post I made in a different thread about it:

There are several depending on what kind of solution you're looking which is why I clearly prefer the single ecosystem over the single hardware solution.

Streaming from the handheld to some kind of set-top box and use it as a controller isn't an option. A battery operated home console won't fly. Hooking it up to some AC adapter won't work as not everybody has power socket in their close proximity when sitting on a couch. The handheld form and battery would make it a hard task to balance power (Wii U level with 1080p output minimum), price ($199 at most and that's being generous).

Of course you could solve the battery requirement with an actual dock which doubles as power supply and a proper gamepad but it still leaves many questions open. For example the screen resolution. On a handheld with a 5" screen (like the Vita) a 1080p screen would be utterly pointless and would have a higher pixel density than Retina. I'd argue that even 720p would be too high-res (close to 300PPI).

For a handheld a qHD or SVGA display is much more likely but that leaves you with an upscaled picture on your TV or would require severely underclocked hardware in the handheld that goes into "power-mode" when you put it into the dock. Neither very desirable.

It also creates a marketing problem. How do you sell the dock? You can't sell it with every handheld because people who only want the handheld don't need it. You can't sell it only in a second SKU bundled with the handheld because some might want to buy it later. And selling all of them separately also has its disadvantages since you're selling a TV-bound device that's practically useless without a handheld. Marketing nightmare right there. Even worse when you need a gamepad as well. Nintendo's aims with their hardware after this generation should be to keep the price as low and the concept as simple as possible. The appeal of the original Wii could be grasped in an instant. As for the Wii U, many people don't even know what it is.

That's why I think that a single ecosystem with the same games which work across home console, handheld and maybe even more devices is the best solution. Call them "Nintendo Home" and "Nintendo Mobile" (or something like that), make them both based on the same architecture (ARM) with the handheld rendering at qHD and the home console at 1080p with added AA and effects (kinda like PCs) and keep prices at ~$150 and you have a winner, I think.
 

AniHawk

Member
This is why you launch your consoles in the west first.

i think it's clear the vita tv is sony's japanese console moving forward, and the ps4 is their western console. if you're a mid-tier studio, you'll make games for that or 3ds, and if you're a major studio, you'll make your big western-focused games on the ps4.
 

B.O.O.M

Member
I didn't say it is a failed IP. Just saying it should've done better. Looking at Toukiden really gives that feeling even if Toukiden is more closer to MH.

Is it really that bad? It looked fine in the trailers and other promo videos.

Nope it isn't bad. It's just very different. I hope they never change it. I love the atmosphere

I disagree about the sales too. This is their highest selling handheld game and it's also a new IP. It takes time to build a bigger userbase with these kinds of games. it's also a very mature game so it's not going to be big with casual audiences either.
 

Kid Ying

Member
Nice try with the troll post. I never post in these threads, because I find them unbearable, but I'll address this. Iwata said that he expected the 3DS to lead Nintendo's drive in 2013. The Wii U can expect to have better and sustained momentum by the end of 2014; At this point, one could say that they are restarting its engine, and later on, it would shift through its gears. Although announced, the official price cut hasn't come into play (it will do later in the month), while certain titles aren't out for it yet. It is surely common sense to wait for it, if you're considering one at this time, and it isn't unthinkable that once these things happen, the numbers will improve a little. The games are coming, too, and that is what will help the most. It hasn't played all of its cards yet. One could single out the Vita, too, and I will, but not in fanboyish spirit - In that case, new models were announced; It isn't unthinkable that people are also waiting for these. In both cases, perhaps the same will be true Worldwide.

Furthermore, IIRC, Pikmin is a series which typically does better outside of Japan, and there are some promising signs. It contributed in more ways then some would care to recognise - In my neck of the woods, we saw Disney Infinity and Splinter Cell chart at #1 and #3 in the Wii U charts, while Rayman Legends is selling better on the Wii U. So, here, you can see a case of software selling hardware, THEN other parties starting to benefit more from it. The Wii U doesn't need 'saving' - this is extremely premature, rotten, fanboyish trolling, and NeoGAF would do well to stop thinking of this in terms of "Which game will help?". That has NEVER been Nintendo's aim, and few people, especially in this climate, would buy a new console for just the one game. They said themselves that they'll try to build a library of games. Still, to claim Doom is to be completely ignorant of their 'Evergreen' approach, an approach adopted by them a lot more since the Wii and DS era. 'Industry analysts' are being dumb and horribly short-sighted with their Doom Narrative. It's tiresome and pathetic, ESPECIALLY when they are seemingly unaware of this. The Wii U will be around for quite a while; it is better to come back when the 9th Generation consoles launch, and after all of its cards have been played. I feel that this is the most reasonable position.

Pikmin 3 alone won't sustain momentum. It is more appropriate to look at it in terms of "How many games are there which I want to play?" - So, by the time LOZ: Wind Waker HD, Super Mario 3D World, Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze, Sonic Lost World, Mario & Sonic At The Sochi 2014 Olympic Winter Games, Wii Party U, Wii Fit U, then in 2014, Bayonetta 2, X, Smash Bros. and Mario Kart 8, people will see that it has a great library. Also, they might see Disney Infinity, Rayman Legends, Assassin's Creed 4, COD: Ghosts, Batman: Arkham Origins, Watch_Dogs, Just Dance 2014, and, of course, New Super Mario Bros. U (an important Evergreen title), or bite when unannounced titles are announced. Clearly, that post is an example of trolling, or one that doesn't know what 'momentum' is, or both - 'Momentum' usually starts slowly, then builds to a steady pace, or a crescendo; it isn't "hitting the ground running". Even in the event that one "hits the ground running", the 'runner' had to build up to that point.
I agree. I think it's very unfair to say that Pikmin didn't helped the Wiiu. The game was released on july, almost exactly two months ago. It took two months for the Wiiu to reach it's low levels when there was no follow up for it.

Pikmin helped it. It couldn't turn the whole console into a huge sucess, but it made the Wiiu sell much more for a while. Iwata wanted to build momentum and that didn't worked because Wonderful 101 wasn't a sucess and held nothing, but at least in terms of launching games and making the Wiiu a better platform than it was, he was spot on. The biggest problem for the Wiiu right now is that Wonderful 101 failed to achieve expectations, but Zelda will surely help the console a little more. Unfortunately, it will release in the middle of the MH4 tornado, but things can only get better.
 
i think it's clear the vita tv is sony's japanese console moving forward, and the ps4 is their western console. if you're a mid-tier studio, you'll make games for that or 3ds, and if you're a major studio, you'll make your big western-focused games on the ps4.

:lol I think the vita tv is launching in japan first so they don't feel salty about not getting PS4 the same time as the west. Vita tv was made with the west in mind, in fact, I think it'll sell 20x more in the west than it will in Japan. You have to be crazy if you don't think that Vita tv is western conceived.
 
Oh so it's not only me.

But really, I've gone at length a few times before, and I think the hybrid idea is possibly the worst possible way to react to their current ordeals. It is downright suicidal and I'm surprised many people are suggesting it.

Less suicidal than going with another console - good luck getting any 3rd party on board after Wii U and good luck producing even more expensive higher resolution handheld and console games for next generation.
 

RM8

Member
they don't have to make a hybrid.

just make a decently powered handheld with TV output and the ability to hook up a controller wirelessly.
That'd be more expensive than a regular Nintendo handheld. Price is important for Nintendo handheld to succeed. I think their next handheld should launch at $150, that'd be killer.
 

FlynnCL

Unconfirmed Member
HARDWARE
| 3DS | 79.191 | 67.022 | 64.159 | 2.536.671 | 3.059.106 | 12.316.551 |
That's just amazing. The numbers really do show that people are preparing for Monster Hunter / Pokémon. It's going to be fascinating to see.

HARDWARE
| PSV | 7.314 | 8.405 | 14.106 | 692.892 | 519.554 | 1.823.717 |
| WIU | 5.702 | 6.741 | ---------- | 440.612 | ----------- | 1.067.899 |

It's sad to see how much these two have dropped, especially the Vita. I'm also a bit confused as to why they'd release a new model 2 days before Pokémon...

Reminds me of Nintendo of America releasing The Wonderful 101 just 2 days before Grand Theft Auto V. :p
 

AniHawk

Member
:lol I think the vita tv is launching in japan first so they don't feel salty about not getting PS4 the same time as the west. Vita tv was made with the west in mind, in fact, I think it'll sell 20x more in the west than it will in Japan. You have to be crazy if you don't think that Vita tv is western conceived.

that library is incredibly unfriendly to american audiences. regardless of quality, they'll see the machine offering watered down versions of games on consoles with better libraries. the best it has to offer this holiday is killzone, and the vita tv probably won't even come out until that game is a couple months old.
 

Busaiku

Member
I wonder if it's possible for 3DS to beat last year.
Monster Hunter, Pokemon, and Puzzle & Dragons are big, but it still has a huge gap.
 

L Thammy

Member
that library is incredibly unfriendly to american audiences. regardless of quality, they'll see the machine offering watered down versions of games on consoles with better libraries. the best it has to offer this holiday is killzone, and the vita tv probably won't even come out until that game is a couple months old.

The sense that I get is that the Vita TV is built for the US, but Sony doesn't really have the option of giving it a US focused library. Their Western-focused developers are more likely to be working on PS4 and it's mostly the Japanese developers that will work on a handheld.

How does the Vita's sales in the US compare to Japan? I vaguely recall reading that it's better, but I could easily be wrong.
 

LayLa

Member
The Vita will thrive. Just give it a lil more time

I'll believe Vita is thriving when Sony stop hiding it's sales figures in their quarterly reports. will they have to start combining Vita, Vita TV and PSP numbers soon?
looking forward to the MH photos, feels like a long time since we've seen pictures of bored Japanese people waiting in queues.
 
that library is incredibly unfriendly to american audiences. regardless of quality, they'll see the machine offering watered down versions of games on consoles with better libraries. the best it has to offer this holiday is killzone, and the vita tv probably won't even come out until that game is a couple months old.

What Library? Are you talking about Vita? Because Vita's current library leans towards the west, especially if you include indie games.
 

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
I'll believe Vita is thriving when Sony stop hiding it's sales figures in their quarterly reports. will they have to start combining Vita, Vita TV and PSP numbers soon?
looking forward to the MH photos, feels like a long time since we've seen pictures of bored Japanese people waiting in queues.

Why wouldn't they combine Vita and Vita TV together? They play the same games.
 
03./01. [PS3] JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: All-Star Battle # <FTG> (Bandai Namco Games) {2013.08.29} (¥7.980) - 19.720 / 445.437 (-95%)
05./02. [PS3] Final Fantasy XIV Online: A Real Reborn # <RPG> (Square Enix) {2013.08.27} (¥3.300) - 12.336 / 196.354 (-93%)

I've never seen drops this big. That's insane. I wonder how FFXIV will do going forward (and also how the PS4 version will sell).
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
I'm not saying this to defend Nintendo's console business or anything, I'm saying that it makes no sense to create a hybrid because it has way too many disadvantages, some devastating to a company like Nintendo. Here is a post I made in a different thread about it:

You know, reading your post better, especially the solution proposed, I can definitely see it. Yeah, I'm quite a supporter of the hybrid idea, through a portable and a separate donglelike device, but your idea is quite similar to mine. The only difference is that the dongle contains the hardware too, basically XD
 
I was reading MC threads from 2011, and when the 3DS first came out it was outsold by the PSP during most weeks, and people were calling it doomed. Crazy how things can change in two years. It really highlights just how much of a failure the Vita has been. I'm not sure why Sony didn't just moneyhat Monster Hunter, that game single-handedly made the PSP a healthy system and created an install base where other 3rd party games thrived.
 

AniHawk

Member
What Library? Are you talking about Vita? Because Vita's current library leans towards the west, especially if you include indie games.

you're talking about the one with dangan ronpa, phantasy star, soul sacrifice, god eater, panopticon, ys, dance girls games, gundam, criminal girls, gust games, compile hearts games, and idea factory games, right? because the us lineup has killzone, fifa, lego marvel super heroes, batman, angry birds, and tearaway and that's about it.

no one includes indie games. we're getting there, but we're not at the time where indie games will push a traditional gaming platform's sales if they're download only. keep in mind, i'm talking from a sales perspective.

The sense that I get is that the Vita TV is built for the US, but Sony doesn't really have the option of giving it a US focused library. Their Western-focused developers are more likely to be working on PS4 and it's mostly the Japanese developers that will work on a handheld.

How does the Vita's sales in the US compare to Japan? I vaguely recall reading that it's better, but I could easily be wrong.

vita's sales are roughly even. if you align launches, they're probably on the same trajectory (vita had a small 3 month head start). i think us vita is around 1.5m right now. the big difference is that software in the us is terrible.
 
the 3ds is some sort of hardware sales vampire.

Not really. Its more like the the rest of the consoles are dry. PS3 is understandable considering its 7 years old. However the two new consoles WiiU and Vita are dead in the water.

i think it's clear the vita tv is sony's japanese console moving forward, and the ps4 is their western console. if you're a mid-tier studio, you'll make games for that or 3ds, and if you're a major studio, you'll make your big western-focused games on the ps4.

The Vita TV is clearly western focused as in Japan people prefer to have portable games whereas in the West most people play their portable handheld at home. Also there were a lot of mid tier studios making their games on ps3 last gen.
 
Vita just doesn't make sense in today's market. Wii U doesn't have that one casual gimmick to lure in non hardcore gamers. Both consoles are DOA.
 
you're talking about the one with dangan ronpa, phantasy star, soul sacrifice, god eater, panopticon, ys, dance girls games, gundam, criminal girls, gust games, compile hearts games, and idea factory games, right? because the us lineup has killzone, fifa, lego marvel super heroes, batman, angry birds, and tearaway and that's about it.

no one includes indie games. we're getting there, but we're not at the time where indie games will push a traditional gaming platform's sales if they're download only. keep in mind, I'm talking from a sales perspective.
Smaller games and multimedia functions is the reason why people would even buy a 100$ micro console. People interested in the vita tv wont give a fuck about the games in your list, if they do, they'll just buy a traditional vita. Saying that any type of home console is tailored towards japan at this point is just ridiculous.


Vita just doesn't make sense in today's market. Wii U doesn't have that one casual gimmick to lure in non hardcore gamers. Both consoles are DOA.

:lol
 

AniHawk

Member
Not really. Its more like the the rest of the consoles are dry. PS3 is understandable considering its 7 years old. However the two new consoles WiiU and Vita are dead in the water.

i was commenting on how the hardware that should have been pushed, the ones with new releases, dropped, while the 3ds, which saw no no releases, went up a significant amount.

The Vita TV is clearly western focused as in Japan people prefer to have portable games whereas in the West most people play their portable handheld at home. Also there were a lot of mid tier studios making their games on ps3 last gen.

alternatively, the vita tv could be sony's attempt at fostering a sort of console development scene in japan.

Smaller games and multimedia functions is the reason why people would even buy a 100$ micro console. People interested in the vita tv wont give a fuck about the games in your list, if they do, they'll just buy a traditional vita. Saying that any type of home console is tailored towards japan at this point is just ridiculous.

a tiny inexpensive portable console that plays a mostly japanese-dominated library from a portable lineup sounds much more like a japanese device than it does an american one. if sony really had wanted this to do something in america, they would have had it out before black friday, and pushed killzone alongside it.
 

Cygnus X-1

Member
If Nintendo is not posting huge losses, is mainly because of the very good performance of 3DS and its games in Japan.

But if something goes wrong here too....they are in the shit. They better find some good idea to make the Wii U sell at least as the Gamecube.

Quite unbelievable if you think about it.....how going from a smashing planetary success like the Wii to the irrelevancy of the Wii U.
 

DrWong

Member
If Nintendo is not posting huge losses, is mainly because of the very good performance of 3DS and its games in Japan.

But if something goes wrong here too....they are in the shit. They better find some good idea to make the Wii U sell at least as the Gamecube.

Quite unbelievable if you think about it.....how going from a smashing planetary success like the Wii to the irrelevancy of the Wii U.

So, if Nintendo is not posting huge loses is because it's doing well? But if things go wrong Nintendo will post loses?

I understand that.
 
i was commenting on how the hardware that should have been pushed, the ones with new releases, dropped, while the 3ds, which saw no no releases, went up a significant amount.



alternatively, the vita tv could be sony's attempt at fostering a sort of console development scene in japan.



a tiny inexpensive portable console that plays a mostly japanese-dominated library from a portable lineup sounds much more like a japanese device than it does an american one. if sony really had wanted this to do something in america, they would have had it out before black friday, and pushed killzone alongside it.
PS4? and like I said before, they are launching this first in Japan because they aren't getting PS4 first. The games that you named are 40$+ games(actually even more than that in japan). People who are interested in those games are going to buy the vita, not the vita tv. Outside of blockbusters, Japan does not fuck with consoles anymore, they would prefer to be able to play their games anywhere. Vita tv is a multimedia device designed for gaikai in mind, that vita shit is just extra. The vita shit is just them trying salvage a flopping device. Saying that handheld device without a screen is Sony's plan for japan as far as consoles in concerned is just nonsense.
 

Cygnus X-1

Member
Nintendo's next piece of HW should serve as both a home console and a handheld.

No. Next Nintendo's home system should be based on a original idea. Wii was based on something never done before. Crazy, but new. Wii U merely follows iPod's hype. Obviously, the consumer doesn't see any advantage in buying a Wii U at the moment - exactly because it's not an interesting device. On the core, the Gamecube suffered the same problem: why buying it when you had a PS2 with everything you wanted + the DVD driver in it?

Nintendo needs just to stop following what others are doing. They are failing so badly exactly because they ignored their own blue ocean strategy. I wonder if they realized as much.

So, if Nintendo is not posting huge loses is because it's doing well? But if things go wrong Nintendo will post loses?

I understand that.

I know it seems a very boring statement....but it's like seeing a elephant on a chair with a single leg - you better repair other legs before that single one break too :-D

If 3DS loses steam in Japan, there is no possibility to compensate in the west because of concurrence of smartphones. And 2DS....bah, I'm skeptical at the moment. And Wii U is more of a burden than anything worldwide.
 

BadWolf

Member
alternatively, the vita tv could be sony's attempt at fostering a sort of console development scene in japan.

This has been on my mind as well.

Clearly the PS3 generation has screwed with the region and it couldn't keep up, and still doesn't seem to be able to.

To bring to the market a product which is essentially a budget low powered console could offer the console devs there another shot with the added bonus of their game being playable not only at home but on the go as well.
 
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