Support NeoGAF

[CaviarMeths]

Yeah isn't Nintendo Retro and Next level for Western studios?
Anyway great for Wii u!
MM and spat are killing it!

Retro and NST are the only 1st party studios outside of Japan. NLG is a wholly independent 3rd party company, but they develop for Nintendo platforms almost exclusively. They're in the same boat as companies like AlphaDream, Grezzo, Monster Games, Game Freak, or Good-Feel.

Honestly not sure where HAL and IntSys fall in. I mean, IntSys has their office and works right inside Nintendo's HQ. But are apparently 3rd party? I dunno.

 

[Xbro]

Retro and NST are the only 1st party studios outside of Japan. NLG is a wholly independent 3rd party company, but they develop for Nintendo platforms almost exclusively. They're in the same boat as companies like AlphaDream, Grezzo, Monster Games, Game Freak, or Good-Feel.

Honestly not sure where HAL and IntSys fall in. I mean, IntSys has their office and works right inside Nintendo's HQ. But are apparently 3rd party? I dunno.

I figured IntSys was first party for the longest time. But I heard they are third party, but have a lifetime contract with Nintendo. So...Second Party.

 

[sörine]

SCE's studios are comfortably called "Sony Worldwide Studios" and that's probably why their workforce is dispersed throughout the world. SCE's structure is hardly comparable to Nintendo, where pretty much everything is coming from Japan. If Sony Japan is a dwarf compared to Nintendo Japan, the western part of Nintendo is non-existent compared to Sony, I don't think it's more complicated than that.

Believe me I'm the first who would like SCE Japan Studio to grow and deliver games on a more regular basis. But if Sony Japan alone was comparable to Nintendo, while having Naughty Dog, Guerrilla, Sucker Punch, Santa Monica etc... that would give us some kind of ultimate beast of a company

Keep in mind Japan Studio is still pretty large (400+ staff). They're about half the size of Nintendo EPD. Polyphony Digital is meanwhile roughly the size of Monolith Soft (130+ staff).

Size isn't the issue for SCEJA, they're really just not putting out much content for a publisher with dev studios at that scale.

Retro and NST are the only 1st party studios outside of Japan. NLG is a wholly independent 3rd party company, but they develop for Nintendo platforms almost exclusively. They're in the same boat as companies like AlphaDream, Grezzo, Monster Games, Game Freak, or Good-Feel.

Honestly not sure where HAL and IntSys fall in. I mean, IntSys has their office and works right inside Nintendo's HQ. But are apparently 3rd party? I dunno.

Monster Games and Next Level both have exclusivity contracts at this point afaik.

HAL and IntSys are both technically 3rd party. Both go way back with Nintendo though as contractors though, as do other often overlooked companies like Pax Softnica and SRD.

 

[vinnygambini]

I figured IntSys was first party for the longest time. But I heard they are third party, but have a lifetime contract with Nintendo. So...Second Party.

Yup, second party much like HAL Laboratory but technically one could consider them 3Rd party albeit with close ties to Nintendo. Even funnier is that both these companies have joint copyright ownership to the Fire Emblem and Kirby IP respectively with Nintendo; Nintendo own the character rights though. Its a relationship similar to the Pokémon rights.

 

[-Horizon-]

#FE finally charting on COMG, 8 point.

Millions incoming.

*sigh*
I want this game to do well but the wombo combo of it being on Wii U and barely any marketing...
I still want to believe in after Christmas miracles.

 

[Ōkami]

I'm going to be even more pessimistic about #FE.

Those 8 points are just the Fortissimo Edition, standard SKU isn't on the chart, and even then Fortissimo has less points than Star Ocean 5 on PS3 a game that won't be releasing over 3 months after #FE.

 

[Mory Dunz]

Over under 40k?

 

[-Horizon-]

I'm going to be even more pessimistic about #FE.

Those 8 points are just the Fortissimo Edition, standard SKU isn't on the chart, and even then Fortissimo has less points than Star Ocean 5 on PS3 a game that won't be releasing over 3 months after #FE.

;~;

 

[madstarr12]

I know COMGnet isn't the most reliable source for predicting how much a game will sell, but it's still worrying. 45K opening week for #FE....maybe? If it doesn't move much these next few weeks, then uh oh...

Wii U won't do as well as 2013's December. For week 51, 60-70K should be okay. I think week 52 will be bigger than 51, but slightly, like how 2009's 52 was slightly more than 51. But with the launch of pound FE, maybe Wii U hardware would get a bigger-than-usual bump thanks to the console bundles of hashtag FE. 75-80K for 52, maybe 90+K if the #FE bundles have a big shipment (relatively speaking.)

 

[SarusGray]

Gravity Rush second place on the PSN JP Store!

 

[Jarod McChicken]

Keep in mind Japan Studio is still pretty large (400+ staff). They're about half the size of Nintendo EPD. Polyphony Digital is meanwhile roughly the size of Monolith Soft (130+ staff).

Size isn't the issue for SCEJA, they're really just not putting out much content for a publisher with dev studios at that scale.

Even considering that staff numbers from Wikipedia is on point, that doesn't tell us much about the real workforce in terms of development. Staff includes producers for external projects and all the needs for the localisation of western games, among others. What do we know exactly about the teams, the organisation and the exact numbers of dev working behind the doors of Japan Studio ? We know the Gravity Rush/Keiichiro Toyama team, the team working since 20 years on the Last Guardian, and... ?

 

[Sterok]

So Splatoon really is going to outsell #FE on the latter's release week. Huh. Not sure if I should be surprised or not.

 

[sörine]

Even considering that staff numbers from Wikipedia is on point, that doesn't tell us much about the real workforce in terms of development. Staff includes producers for external projects and all the needs for the localisation of western games, among others. What do we know exactly about the teams, the organisation and the exact numbers of dev working behind the doors of Japan Studio ? We know the Gravity Rush/Keiichiro Toyama team, the team working since 20 years on the Last Guardian, and... ?

No need to question, the staff numbers are on point. They came from Sony themselves after all.

Japan Studio

Polyphony Digital

I'm not sure of the current state of Japan Studio but they used to have a relatively distinct project lead / floating team based setup (Team Ico, Team Siren, Team Saru, etc). Namco, Capcom, Nintendo and most other large JP developers usually operate this way.

Also worth noting, production and localization are also done inhouse at Nintendo EPD. It's basically the old EAD and SPD rolled into one. So are technology, audio, some testing and other aspects of game making not strictly based on game design.

 

[Moor-Angol]

I'm going to be even more pessimistic about #FE.

Those 8 points are just the Fortissimo Edition, standard SKU isn't on the chart, and even then Fortissimo has less points than Star Ocean 5 on PS3 a game that won't be releasing over 3 months after #FE.

leave the desperate mode out, COMG is not a nationwide indication, how is going on amazon?

also nintendo games often dont have a lot of preorders (COMG speaking), their strenght have also been selling in the long period

 

[AntMurda]

Keep in mind Japan Studio is still pretty large (400+ staff). They're about half the size of Nintendo EPD. Polyphony Digital is meanwhile roughly the size of Monolith Soft (130+ staff).

But you know that those "400" staff members don't just work on games right? Japan Studio is a hub to a great deal of SCEI's base operation. Hardware, OS, external production, localization, tool coordination, Etc. When it comes to actual game development, Japan Studio uses a huge amount of external agencies. Much of their development staff seems to overturn quite often.

HAL and IntSys are both technically 3rd party. Both go way back with Nintendo though as contractors though, as do other often overlooked companies like Pax Softnica and SRD.

They aren't technically "third party". Nintendo has some rather undisclosed financial and contractual agreements with those companies. They don't fit in a box we can OCD list them under really. Nintendo discloses them as affiliates.

 

[hiska-kun]

#FE isn't in a good shape on Amazon.jp either.
The game will sell a la Bayonetta 2. Maybe slightly better due to the bundle.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

#FE isn't in a good shape on Amazon.jp either.
The game will sell a la Bayonetta 2. Maybe slightly better due to the bundle.

A shame. It deserves to sell better but being on a dead platform isn't helping it any better.

 

[sörine]

But you know that those "400" staff members don't just work on games right? Japan Studio is a hub to a great deal of SCEI's base operation. Hardware, OS, external production, localization, tool coordination, Etc. When it comes to actual game development, Japan Studio uses a huge amount of external agencies. Much of their development staff seems to overturn quite often.

Much of Sony's general development for technology, API/backend, hardware, support and so on in recent years has been offloaded to other divisions like Santa Monica, ICE Team, London, etc. Japan Studio doesn't really seem to be nexus for everything they were even late last decade. I'm not sure how this really differentiates them from EPD either, who also doesn't strictly work on game development.

They aren't technically "third party". Nintendo has some rather undisclosed financial and contractual agreements with those companies. They don't fit in a box we can OCD list them under really. Nintendo discloses them as affiliates.

Oh man. Return of Second Party.

Nintendo still has a stake in Genius Sonority too I believe. And both Monster and Next Level have stated contractual exclusivity. Any other companies along these lines; less than subsidiaries but more than freelancers?

 

[duckroll]

I hate to pull the "I told you so" card, but from the start I never had any confidence that Nintendo would seriously make any attempt to sell #FE to anyone. They have written off the WiiU for core games even as they continue to release them, especially in Japan. It's contradictory but it's just how NIntendo is. They've never been particularly good with engaging that audience to begin with.

 

[Sterok]

So are we expecting #FE to end up above or below Xenoblade X (~130K)? I was wondering if the former might have the advantage since it might be catering to JP tastes better, but right now I'm not sure about that. Or is it something that we'll need the game's reception to determine the answer?

 

[Maniel]

So are we expecting #FE to end up above or below Xenoblade X (~130K)? I was wondering if the former might have the advantage since it might be catering to JP tastes better, but right now I'm not sure about that. Or is it something that we'll need the game's reception to determine the answer?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say below by a good margin.

 

[CaviarMeths]

I'll be nice and say 100k LT for #FE.

Which is too bad. Atlus and IntSys is a dream collab.

 

[AntMurda]

Much of Sony's general development for technology, API/backend, hardware, support and so on in recent years has been offloaded to other divisions like Santa Monica, ICE Team, London, etc. Japan Studio doesn't really seem to be nexus for everything they were even late last decade.

SCE has content service teams in Japan Studio, London Studio, and Foster City. They have external production teams at Liverpool (XDev), Foster City, Santa Monica and Japan Studio. They have QA and Localization teams at San Mateo and Japan Studio. Those 400 people employed at Japan Studio do a lot of things! I mean look at Santa Monica who has 200+ and share half the reaponsibities of Japan Studio.

I'm not sure how this really differentiates them from EPD either, who also doesn't strictly work on game development.

Nintendo's Kyoto R&D is massive compared to Japan Studio. EPD is only one fourth of their development force. SCE is a massive global entity though.

 

[Jarod McChicken]

No need to question, the staff numbers are on point. They came from Sony themselves after all.

Japan Studio

Polyphony Digital

I'm not sure of the current state of Japan Studio but they used to have a relatively distinct project lead / floating team based setup (Team Ico, Team Siren, Team Saru, etc). Namco, Capcom, Nintendo and most other large JP developers usually operate this way.

I didn't question the PD staff, (it's actually 110 people and not 140 now, according to their fresh new website, by the way) since we were talking about Japan Studio. Also, it's impressive you can go as far as using Web Archives If the staff number is gone on the most recent refresh of WWS website, maybe there is a reason.

But then again, the staff number is not the problem. The problem is you were suggesting that Japan Studio is a special case of a lazy japanese gang (especially compared to Nintendo, of course) when you don't have more clue than everyone else about what's going on inside, and about how many dev/teams are working at the moment. The fact is Japan Studio output is barren, but you don't know if that's the result of a strategic decision or pure inefficiency.

Also worth noting, production and localization are also done inhouse at Nintendo EPD.

'Scuse me, but localization of what exactly ? Nintendo western games ? When I was talking about localization, I was referring to Uncharted, The Order, The Last of Us, God of War, and so on. Everything from WWS is adapted for Japan.

 

[Pennywise83]

#FE will be lucky to reach 40k LTD - I predict a sub-20k opening and some mildy legs due to holidays. I totally expect the game to be ported on the next Nintendo platform à la Devil Survivor.


Sumikko Gurashi: 2014 (Koko ga Ochitsukundesu) VS 2015 (Omise Hajimerundesu)

------------------------------------------------------------- 
|    |   2014    |      2015     |  Difference  | 
|    | [3DS] (2014.11.20)| [3DS] (2015.11.19)|              | 
|----|---------|---------|---------|---------|--------------| 
|Week|  Weekly |   LTD   |  Weekly |   LTD   | 2015 - 2014  | 
|----|---------|---------|---------|---------|--------------| 
|  1 |  10.301|  10.301|  12.880|  12.880|      2.579|
|  2 |   4.878|  15.179|   6.012|  18.892|      3.713|
|  3 |   6.970|  22.149|   7.503|  26.395|      4.246| 
|  4 |   12.933 |  35.082|   12.787|  39.182|      4.100| 
|  5 |   21.052|  56.134|   |  |      |  
|  6 |   19.406|  75.540|   |  |      |  
|  7 |   9.474|  85.014|   |  |      |  
|  8 |   3.652|  88.666|   |  |      |  
|  9 |   3.008|  91.674|   |  |      | 
| 10 |   2.126|  93.800|   |  |       | 
|----|---------|---------|---------|---------|--------------|   
-------------------------------------------------------------

 

[JoeM86]

Pokémon is not "in trouble" but the sales of the last mainline entry have been quite disappointing (worst LTD ever), and legs of both the mainline and the remake have been pretty dire. On top of that, spin-offs start to become less and less relevent - bear in mind that being the only retail release in 2015 for the franchise should have helped SMD.

It's the worst because it has barely been any time. It's disingenuous to compare game sales of games that have been out longer. It should be a time adjusted comparison where X & Y aren't that far behind at all, and considering the state of the handheld market, it's understandable.

Spin-offs aren't less relevant based on the information in my post. Just because Super Mystery Dungeon didn't do too well doesn't mean they are no longer relevant. It means Mystery Dungeon games are tired and people are bored with them...I know I am. Spin-offs have very rarely done amazingly. I think people have misconceptions about this.

 

[Pennywise83]

It's the worst because it has barely been any time. It's disingenuous to compare game sales of games that have been out longer. It should be a time adjusted comparison where X & Y aren't that far behind at all, and considering the state of the handheld market, it's understandable.

Spin-offs aren't less relevant based on the information in my post. Just because Super Mystery Dungeon didn't do too well doesn't mean they are no longer relevant. It means Mystery Dungeon games are tired and people are bored with them...I know I am. Spin-offs have very rarely done amazingly. I think people have misconceptions about this.

The fact is, XY legs have been terrible - I compared DP legs with XY legs and the former sold 100k+ in its 4th year in the market - XY sold 23k in its 3rd year. It doesn't seem XY will be able to increase much its LTD given the poor legs.

People might have been grown tired of MD but SMD result is still quite poor - barely any leg and highly unlikely it will reach the 400k LTD of the previous entry. Being the only Pokémon retail release in 2015 should have helped because Pokémon fans had something to play.

Also, Pokémon spin-offs tended to be successful - so there's not any misconception. Pokémon Ranger sold 600k on average across 3 entries; MD itself reached 1.5m units with the second entry, and sold 400k+ with the subsequent entries. Rumble Blast in 2011 sold 350k units and it was a quite peculiar spin-off. Even PokéPark games sold 330k+ units.

 

[Jarod McChicken]

#FE will be lucky to reach 40k LTD - I predict a sub-20k opening and some mildy legs due to holidays. I totally expect the game to be ported on the next Nintendo platform à la Devil Survivor.

That's probably where it will land (50K opening max for me) but the question is where should it be ? I mean, if you use the kind of reasoning you had recently for Exist Archive, Gravity Rush Remastered, Star Ocean 5 or Setsuna ?

Your expectations seems suddenly very low for that long-awaited JRPG made by Atlus, tied (somehow) with Fire Emblem and marketed every week (every friday to be exact) since months, that's why I ask.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

#FE will be lucky to reach 40k LTD - I predict a sub-20k opening and some mildy legs due to holidays. I totally expect the game to be ported on the next Nintendo platform à la Devil Survivor.

Hehehee... While this post is not wrong, it did make me laugh considering your Setsuna predictions

I hope Nintendo fully funded #FE because Atlus doesn't deserve this bomba. They are better off selling games on a platform where it has actual chance of selling like 3DS, PS4 and Vita.

 

[manipulate]

40k LTD for #FE? That seems pessimistic af. Surely it'll do closer to XCX numbers at least?

 

[cw_sasuke]

The fact is, XY legs have been terrible - I compared DP legs with XY legs and the former sold 100k+ in its 4th year in the market - XY sold 23k in its 3rd year. It doesn't seem XY will be able to increase much its LTD given the poor legs.

People might have been grown tired of MD but SMD result is still quite poor - barely any leg and highly unlikely it will reach the 400k LTD of the previous entry. Being the only Pokémon retail release in 2015 should have helped because Pokémon fans had something to play.

Also, Pokémon spin-offs tended to be successful - so there's not any misconception. Pokémon Ranger sold 600k on average across 3 entries; MD itself reached 1.5m units with the second entry, and sold 400k+ with the subsequent entries. Rumble Blast in 2011 sold 350k units and it was a quite peculiar spin-off. Even PokéPark games sold 330k+ units.

DP had the luck being on the most successful system ever - it easier to have this kind of legs when the system sells for much more per weeks. This was also a period before MH, Yokai Watch and co. on the own system as well as multiple popular mobile attracting the same audience with similar overall gameplay agendas (collect, battle, level up etc.).

Pokemon Company has been slowly transition to f2p software for their spin-off titles so its more difficult to tell how successful the last projects were, even with Mystery Dungeon underperforming.

40k LTD for #FE? That seems pessimistic af. Surely it'll do closer to XCX numbers at least?

It would be a spectacular bomb at 40k - i would hope 70-80k might be possible but it will end up being ported to NX anyway so ...we will see.

 

[Pennywise83]

That's probably where it will land (50K opening max for me) but the question is where should it be ? I mean, if you use the kind of reasoning you had recently for Exist Archive, Gravity Rush Remastered, Star Ocean 5 or Setsuna ?

Your expectations seems suddenly very low for that long-awaited JRPG made by Atlus, tied (somehow) with Fire Emblem and marketed every week (every friday to be exact) since months, that's why I ask.

#FE doesn't seem a high-budget game and I say its expectations should be set at around 170-180k units - indeed, it's a re-imagining of the cross-over between two quite popular IPs (Fire Emblem is more popular than ever; Shin Megami Tensei has its following). If the game were to be released on 3DS, for example, I would say the software house could have expected much more - 250k+. However, Wii U is a not a jRPG-friendly platform and the game looks totally out of place.

Hehehee... While this post is not wrong, it did make me laugh considering your Setsuna predictions

I hope Nintendo fully funded #FE because Atlus doesn't deserve this bomba. They are better off selling games on a platform where it has actual chance of selling like 3DS, PS4 and Vita.

You're confusing personal predictions of how much a game I think will sell with reasonable expectations a software house should have (of course, speculations since we don't typically have much information about them).

DP had the luck being on the most successful system ever - it easier to have this kind of legs when the system sells for much more per weeks. This was also a period before MH, Yokai Watch and co. on the own system as well as multiple popular mobile attracting the same audience with similar overall gameplay agendas (collect, battle, level up etc.).

Pokemon Company has been slowly transition to f2p software for their spin-off titles so its more difficult to tell how successful the last projects were, even with Mystery Dungeon underperforming.

Indeed, there are plenty of reasons why Pokémon is declining - this doesn't change the fact that it is declining. DP got huge legs but also suffered competition from Platinum in 2008 (it still sold 240k+ units) and HeartGold / SoulSilver in 2009 (it still sold 140k+ units). Pokémon mainline games have always had nice legs - see Emerald, GBA remakes, Black / White. Game Freak should really revise its business model and how to develop Pokémon games if they want to stop the decline (of course Pokémon is still a hugely popular IP, this is a given).

 

[1st Course]

stuff

Maybe we need to look at the final shipment ltd per region to understand the picture better:

Japan: 4m or so (I think we can agree that this a responsible estimation)

EU/Other: 4m or so (JP and EU sales are about even, so should be around this ballpark)

NA: 8m? (You have been following NPD better than me, you probably can give a better estimation)

We also need to consider the effect of the NX, it could cut through the Wii U sales pretty hard. Gamecube shipped less than 1 million WW post the Wii release for example.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

wiki says Dec 26

I predict 30k opening. I'm pretty sure a traditional FE WiiU game would of done better.

 

[HGH]

I remember when the Nintendo UK boss justified not advertising XenoX because "those who want it will buy it anyway". Now I wonder if this is just a company wide policy across regions.

 

[Kid Ying]

leave the desperate mode out, COMG is not a nationwide indication, how is going on amazon?

also nintendo games often dont have a lot of preorders (COMG speaking), their strenght have also been selling in the long period

Comg is really not the best barometer, especially for smaller games, but this is quite awful. It's preorders are bad everywhere. Xenoblade had a lot of preorders on most places, where on amazon the best version of Sharp fe is at the number 150 and the number 10 at only wiiu games. Not even on eshop rankings, where i think there's more fans of games like these, the game is doing well.

It's strange. I thought this game would do well. There's no rpg on wiiu that sold less than 100k, so there is a mild audience. Don't know why those people are not interested in this game.

Anyway, i will get it. If it sells like bayo 2, it would end with 60k ltd, but even bayo had better preorders and marketing. Don't know.

 

[HGH]

Gravity Rush second place on the PSN JP Store!

I was wondering if people would be interested in shots like these:

Or if they're too vague and inconclusive to bother.

It was funny seeing Goat Simulator in the top 3 for weeks at a time.

 

[Acquiescence]

Gravity Rush second place on the PSN JP Store!

Oh cool, that's something at least.

 

[1st Course]

I was wondering if people would be interested in shots like these:


Or if they're too vague and inconclusive to bother.

It was funny seeing Goat Simulator in the top 3 for weeks at a time.

What the tracking period for these charts? Weekly/daily?

 

[Chris1964]

First Day Sell-Through {2015.12.17}

[3DS] Monster Strike <RPG> (Mixi) (¥4.860) - 30% good sales expected for the weekend

[PS4] [XB1] Fallout 4 # <RPG> (Bethesda Softworks) (¥8.618) - 60% this time the One version is selling better than usual

[PS4] [PS3][PS3] [PS4] JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Eyes of Heaven <FTG> (Bandai Namco Games) - It's better don't say anything lol*

[PSV] Miracle Girls Festival <ACT> (Sega) (¥7.549) - 30-40%

[PSV] [PSP] Angelique Retour # <SLG> (Koei Tecmo) (¥7.344) - 50-60%

[PSV] [PS4][PS4] [PSV] Exist Archive: The Other Side of the Sky <RPG> (Spike Chunsoft) - 20-30%

[PSV] [PS4] [PS3] Dengeki Bunko: Fighting Climax Ignition <FTG> (Sega) - 20-30%

[PSV] MeiQ no Chika Ni Shisu: A Maze to Eradicate Them All # <RPG> (Compile Heart) (¥7.344) - 30%

Rabbids Land

[3DS] Shokuhoko no Soma: Yuujou to Kizuna no Hitosara <ADV> (FuRyu) (¥6.458)
[3DS] Downtown no Gaki no Tsukai Yaarahen de!! Zettai ni Tsukamatte Haikenai Gasu Kurobikari Land <ACT> (Alchemist) (¥5.184)

* (maybe some Jojo fan can translate the sarcasm)

Week of bombs round 3.

For Fallout 4 he expects a 10/1 PS4/XB1 ratio with a little luck.

He also gives what SKU leads the sales looking at the images.

 

[JoeM86]

The fact is, XY legs have been terrible - I compared DP legs with XY legs and the former sold 100k+ in its 4th year in the market - XY sold 23k in its 3rd year. It doesn't seem XY will be able to increase much its LTD given the poor legs.

People might have been grown tired of MD but SMD result is still quite poor - barely any leg and highly unlikely it will reach the 400k LTD of the previous entry. Being the only Pokémon retail release in 2015 should have helped because Pokémon fans had something to play.

Also, Pokémon spin-offs tended to be successful - so there's not any misconception. Pokémon Ranger sold 600k on average across 3 entries; MD itself reached 1.5m units with the second entry, and sold 400k+ with the subsequent entries. Rumble Blast in 2011 sold 350k units and it was a quite peculiar spin-off. Even PokéPark games sold 330k+ units.

I never said that XY's legs hadn't been damaged...they had, I even said so. As cw_sasuke said, DP was on the most popular device of all time, and brought a brand new concept to Pokémon, online trading and battling, that was huge and brought in a lot of people. The handheld market is a different beast these days. Very few things have legs, and when they do their legs aren't that great.

Again, you're comparing things to a time when the market was a lot healthier so sales were bigger. It's not necessarily indicative of the franchise in decline, it's indicative of the market being severely dented.

Also, people wouldn't just buy Pokémon Super Mystery Dungeon just because it's Pokémon and there's nothing else. If they aren't interested in it, then they aren't interested in it and won't buy it.

Pokémon isn't declining. If it does appear to be, it's such a minimal decline it's ridiculous. Fun fact, Generation VI games combined have already sold more than Generation V games combined. If that's a decline, then I think you're sitting upside-down

 

[CaviarMeths]

What are the LTD sales for each main series entry for Pokemon in Japan? I can only find WW figures on the Googles (which seem remarkably consistent since RB, ftr).

 

[wrowa]

It's strange. I thought this game would do well. There's no rpg on wiiu that sold less than 100k, so there is a mild audience. Don't know why those people are not interested in this game.

I'd argue that #FE is just not a very appealing game. Without doing further research, it just looks like a cheap Persona rip-off with a meaningless FE skin on top of it. It's a fun idea executed in a way that makes it neither appealing to the FE fanbase nor the Atlus fanbase. It's just ... something.

I don't think the idol theme helps either. Feels like a setting that is catering to that "Otaku audience" even though the Wii U doesn't really appeal to that crowd in the first place.

RPGs are a hard sell on Wii U anyway and #FE kinda looks like a game that is doing everything possible to not appeal to that modest Wii U RPG market.

 

[Pennywise83]

I never said that XY's legs hadn't been damaged...they had, I even said so. As cw_sasuke said, DP was on the most popular device of all time, and brought a brand new concept to Pokémon, online trading and battling, that was huge and brought in a lot of people. The handheld market is a different beast these days. Very few things have legs, and when they do their legs aren't that great.

Again, you're comparing things to a time when the market was a lot healthier so sales were bigger. It's not necessarily indicative of the franchise in decline, it's indicative of the market being severely dented.

Also, people wouldn't just buy Pokémon Super Mystery Dungeon just because it's Pokémon and there's nothing else. If they aren't interested in it, then they aren't interested in it and won't buy it.

Pokémon isn't declining. If it does appear to be, it's such a minimal decline it's ridiculous. Fun fact, Generation VI games combined have already sold more than Generation V games combined. If that's a decline, then I think you're sitting upside-down

The fact that the market is declining doesn't necessarily mean that IP should decline as well. You have Animal Crossing, which was a top seller on DS, and was able to repeat the same success on 3DS. You were saying that we should make comparison once all is said and done but XY doesn't have much left in the tank to improve its LTD - reasons are many and this should worry Game Freak more than us. DS was huge but let's not act as 3DS is not of the best-selling platforms of all time in Japan - it sold more than GBA, but XY couldn't even match RS sales by a wide margin (RS was the worst-selling mainline entry back then).

If we're considering Japan (MC sales thread and all), XY+ORAS is at about 7.5m units; BW+B2W2 is at 8.5m units.

What are the LTD sales for each main series entry for Pokemon in Japan? I can only find WW figures on the Googles (which seem remarkably consistent since RB, ftr).

RGB - 7.783.101
GS - 6.089.503
RS - 5.337.045
DP - 5.826.538
BW - 5.488.538
XY - 4.454.325

XY is the first mainline entry to not break the 5m mark - RS did on a less popular platform.

 

[JoeM86]

The fact that the market is declining doesn't necessarily mean that IP should decline as well. You have Animal Crossing, which was a top seller on DS, and was able to repeat the same success on 3DS. You were saying that we should make comparison once all is said and done but XY doesn't have much left in the tank to improve its LTD - reasons are many and this should worry Game Freak more than us. DS was huge but let's not act as 3DS is not of the best-selling platforms of all time in Japan - it sold more than GBA, but XY couldn't even match RS sales by a wide margin (RS was the worst-selling mainline entry back then).

If we're considering Japan (MC sales thread and all), XY+ORAS is at about 7.5m units; BW+B2W2 is at 8.5m units.

The market is ridiculously different now though. Sales of the best selling hardware is half what it was just a few years ago. You need to factor in everything rather than just claim "Oh the franchise is declining" when it's still the biggest franchise in Japan.

 

[Pennywise83]

The market is ridiculously different now though. Sales of the best selling hardware is half what it was just a few years ago. You need to factor in everything rather than just claim "Oh the franchise is declining" when it's still the biggest franchise in Japan.

I mean, the franchise is declining and numbers speak for themselves - M18, for example, is the poorest performer among Pokémon movies. Then we can discuss the reasons why it's declining, and which direction GF should take to raise IP awareness and increase the popularity again. The decline of dedicated devices, though, should not be the only justification - Animal Crossing sold as well as on DS and kept its legs, for example. Pokémon should be able to do better than what it's doing.

 

[Kresnik258]

First Day Sell-Through {2015.12.17}

[PSV] [PS4] Exist Archive: The Other Side of the Sky <RPG> (Spike Chunsoft) - 20-30%

Bah. Supremely disappointing.

[PSV] MeiQ no Chika Ni Shisu: A Maze to Eradicate Them All # <RPG> (Compile Heart) (¥7.344) - 30%

Too many gridders on Vita lately, seems to have been saturated. While Demon Gaze was a new draw on the system, there's loads of alternatives now.

[PSV] [PSP] Angelique Retour # <SLG> (Koei Tecmo) (¥7.344) - 50-60%

I wonder how much this shipped. The original was pretty popular right?

 

[GunBR]

[PSV] [PS4] Exist Archive: The Other Side of the Sky <RPG> (Spike Chunsoft) - 20-30%

Now i'm sad

Spoiler

;_;

I'm not so confident about Star Ocean 5 sales too. Hope that Tri-Ace don't end up having to make mobile games

 

[Pennywise83]

I wonder how much this shipped. The original was pretty popular right?

Mmm... Angelique has never been a massively popular IP. The series has always had its own niche following - the best-selling entry was Angelique 1999 on PS1 with 42k units; the latest entry, Angelique 2011 on PSP, sold around 14k units.

 

[CaviarMeths]

RGB - 7.783.101
GS - 6.089.503
RS - 5.337.045
DP - 5.826.538
BW - 5.488.538
XY - 4.454.325

XY is the first mainline entry to not break the 5m mark - RS did on a less popular platform.

Yeah, all things considered, that seems remarkably consistent since RS. Dropping that much in sales from one generation to the next after the rise of smartphones isn't dire straits.

It's also worth noting that RS, DP, and BW all had two whole holiday seasons before the next game was out. XY had one. It could be argued that OMAS cannibalized XY.

Is OMAS more comparable to FRLG and HGSS?