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Microsoft Investor Wants To Fire Ballmer And Sell Xbox Division

Ding-Ding

Member
Wonder if Nintendo would be interested in a couple years if this pans out.

Why on earth would nintendo pay alot of money to buy out a gaming division where alot of the monetary value will be areas Nintendo already possessed (R&D and existing tech). MS also has little presence in Nintendo's home region with Europe being a mixed bag, so little advantage gained there.

Going through possible companies for a buyout and I cant see an obvious one willing to buy the whole package. If the gaming division was to be sold, the most likely thing would be to break it apart and sell it off in small chunks
 
Too early to say such things. But Jay Allard had great vision for MS unlike their current CEO. ZUNE was a great product they should have backed IMO. If they were willing to take such hits with the XBOX, they could have done the same with ZUNE. Instead they keep trying with Phones and Tablets. XBOX made MS relevant to the general masses besides PC. This investor is truly bugging out before the launch of a console.
 

Skeff

Member
Amazon and nvidia (sorta) have already joined the market, or are about to. this is probably what any "major third party" is probably going to look like. leveraging PC titles or existing apps for mobile and tablets.


at this point the bar to making AAA games is so high, not just in cost but also expertise and name recognition, and online infrastructure that it's just not feasible for someone like Toshiba, Samsung, or IBM to Waltz into the console market as Sony and MS did.

Major software houses (EA, Activision, Ubi) who could just don't have the incentive. And valve? what would a steambox give them that they don't already have on PC? except massive hardware losses, that is.

at this point it looks like the big three is it, assuming Nintendo doesn't bow out. mobile is higher growth and less risk for any other company thinking of this route.

Well if this was sold off as a division, it would include the first part studios I expect, so Samsung would have 343 making Halo and turn10 making forza still, so they wouldn't have a problem with expertise or name recognition, as for online infrastructure, I'm sure Microsoft would rent them out a nice package.
 

tino

Banned
Nobody has said a potential buyer from within the industry yet.

I actually think its possible for EA to do the math and decide to become a console platform owner. Assuming XB1 sale decently in the US/UK next year, and MS can't convince the like of Samsung to buy it, then MS might want to work out a payment plan for an EA-leading group to take it off MS's hands.

Look at how ActiBlizzard borrow the money to buy its own independence. Not many company want to get into the gaming biz. At lease when a movie studio is for sell, a cable company can buy it. MS certainly doesn't want to sell the Xbox division to google. And lets face it, Apple will never buy it. MS might not want to sell it to Amazon either, because it will be seen as MS losing the "living room war" to a rising IT company.

EA owning the Xbox is not as crazy as you think. They just need to give the Xbox a couple months exclusive on all EA games and tie the EA extra stuff to the OS level. EA's dudebro audience has very high intersection with Xbox's owner as it is. This will be seen as another EA-NFL type deal to tie down steady revenue steam deal with more money involve.

The thing about the gaming industry is that its entering a turbulent period. A gaming industry with or without Apple entering the industry will look very fucking different 3 years from now. If Apple enter the industry with a cheapish console, you know for certain either google or Samsung with enter with a similar ARM console. As long as Apple is holding the cards standing on the sideline, almost no one want to spend the Xbox type money.

Personally I don't think Apple will take on the gaming side with a serious effort. Tim Cook is a very conservative man. And if he wait a couple years, Apple/ARM will lose the current momentum.
 

Skeff

Member
Nobody has said a potential buyer from within the industry yet.

I actually think its possible for EA to do the math and decide to become a console platform owner. Assuming XB1 sale decently in the US/UK next year, and MS can't convince the like of Samsung to buy it, then MS might want to work out a payment plan for an EA-leading group to take it off MS's hands.

Look at how ActiBlizzard borrow the money to buy its own independence. Not many company want to get into the gaming biz. At lease when a movie studio is for sell, a cable company can buy it. MS certainly doesn't want to sell the Xbox division to google. And lets face it, Apple will never buy it. MS might not want to sell it to Amazon either, because it will be seen as MS losing the "living room war" to a rising IT company.

EA owning the Xbox is not as crazy as you think. They just need to give the Xbox a couple months exclusive on all EA games and tie the EA extra stuff to the OS level. EA's dudebro audience has very high intersection with Xbox's owner as it is. This will be seen as another EA-NFL type deal to tie down steady revenue steam deal with more money involve.

The thing about the gaming industry is that its entering a turbulent period. A gaming industry with or without Apple entering the industry will look very fucking different 3 years from now. If Apple enter the industry with a cheapish console, you know for certain either google or Samsung with enter with a similar ARM console. As long as Apple is holding the cards standing on the sideline, almost no one want to spend the Xbox type money.

Personally I don't think Apple will take on the gaming side with a serious effort. Tim Cook is a very conservative man. And if he wait a couple years, Apple/ARM will lose the current momentum.

Some of the EA games cannot become exclusive or timed exclusive due to the licensing deals, In fact if EA becomes a platform holder I believe that invalidates their FIFA licensing, but I'm not sure on that. To be honest, I think EA would be happier as they are rather than selling Hardware, it's more difficult to gain money from the hardware than it is the software.
 

TechnicPuppet

Nothing! I said nothing!
In what parallel universe did 360 "win" this generation?

in my universe its :
Wii > PS3 > 360

Depends what criteria is used. MS made more money than Sony, sold more games and no one knows who has sold most consoles.

Nintendo seem the pretty clear winner though.
 

tino

Banned
Some of the EA games cannot become exclusive or timed exclusive due to the licensing deals, In fact if EA becomes a platform holder I believe that invalidates their FIFA licensing, but I'm not sure on that. To be honest, I think EA would be happier as they are rather than selling Hardware, it's more difficult to gain money from the hardware than it is the software.

Maybe EA is not the first option but if MS new CEO can't find a sucker to buy Xbox they may spin it off and sell it partially to EA to lessen the investment in gaming.

Like I said EA doesn't have to do blatant things like exclusive but they can do things in the sysrem GI level to make XB1 more attractive as a sport/shooter box.

Remember HP couldn't sell the PC division and eventually decided to keep it? This could happen to Xbox.
 

Skeff

Member
Maybe EA is not the first option but if MS new CEO can't find a sucker to buy Xbox they may spin it off and sell it partially to EA to lessen the investment in gaming.

Like I said EA doesn't have to do blatant things like exclusive but they can do things in the sysrem GI level to make XB1 more attractive as a sport/shooter box.

Remember HP couldn't sell the PC division and eventually decided to keep it? This could happen to Xbox.

To be honest, I think either the whole thing will be sold off to a hardware giant, or it will be broken up into pieces and patents/studios/ IP's will be sold off to Ubi/Sony/EA/Sega/Nintendo/Activision etc.

I think the most lucrative part of the Xbox division will not be the hardware, but the patents and IP's.
 

krazen

Member
Since everyone is trying to get customers addicted like crack to their ecosystems, Microsoft would be on crack to sell their only successful ecosystem totally under their control(Windows is basicallly the Wild Wild West).

They need to find new ways of spreading people paying $50 bucks for services they can get free elsewhere, which is why their focus as the main livingroom box along with chastity belt tight online only access for da Bone was an understandable play...it consolidated their power.

They are too late in the game with tablets and phones, but relatively right on time with consoles an media centers. They would be foolish to kill their future golden goose even if they arent making hand over fist: its their future.
 

Skeff

Member
Since everyone is trying to get customers addicted like crack to their ecosystems, Microsoft would be on crack to sell their only successful ecosystem totally under their control(Windows is basicallly the Wild Wild West).

They need to find new ways of spreading people paying $50 bucks for services they can get free elsewhere, which is why their focus as the main livingroom box along with chastity belt tight online only access for da Bone was an understandable play...it consolidated their power.

They are too late in the game with tablets and phones, but relatively right on time with consoles an media centers. They would be foolish to kill their future golden goose even if they arent making hand over fist: its their future.

Well, we all know this is their endgame, but their targets of 1 billion consoles sold and the majority being the XB1, so probably looking to sell 400million+ units at a minimum, it's not going to go that way. The living room space is increasingly becoming a standard TV, and a tablet/phone in your lap. The market that Microsoft are targeting doesn't exist because tablet's made it their own.

It's clear what Microsoft were trying to and are still trying to do and it was a great strategy, but tablets destroyed it.
 

CoG

Member
It's clear what Microsoft were trying to and are still trying to do and it was a great strategy, but tablets destroyed it.

Tablets which ironically are a market Microsoft pioneered nearly 15 years ago and totally dropped the ball on. Right around the time Ballmer took the helm. Not a coincidence.
 

tino

Banned
...

They are too late in the game with tablets and phones, but relatively right on time with consoles an media centers. They would be foolish to kill their future golden goose even if they arent making hand over fist: its their future.

Don't kid yourself, the "media center" market doesn't exist after google release the $35 Chromecast.

The whole living room center concept is a lie.
 
The Board has already put into place the Devices and Services Mantra. The have outlined a plan to restructure the company around it. They are looking for a new CEO who will go along with those plans and see them to the end.

What happens is they get a seat a the table, and maybe they can influence the decisions, although for big things like what they want to do (aka, destroying the devices and services mantra) would never go through. The current board would just go against it.

The "devices and services" mantra is an awful one that is actively harming the company in key business areas.

It is also one that is inarguably failing with the sole exception of the xbox brand, and again, to an investor it is debatable how successful Xbox as a whole has been.

Surface has been massively costly to MS extremely recently, not just in terms of their phenomenal marketing budget, or in the amount of unsold stock they have had to write off - but also in their OEM partnerships, because the very same people who traditionally aided MS in their software sales are now having to directly compete against them, but without the benefit of being able to award themselves free licences for Windows RT / Windows 8 like MS can.
 

CoG

Member
Don't kid yourself, the "media center" market doesn't exist after google release the $35 Chromecast.

The whole living room center concept is a lie.

That's bull. I got my dad a Chromecast and in the end he was like, why would I want to go through all the hassle of pushing content to the TV when I can just start Netflix from my Blu-ray player? Chromecast is a great solution for generation mobile but other than it being cheap I really can't see it taking off with the technophobes out there.
 

tino

Banned
That's bull. I got my dad a Chromecast and in the end he was like, why would I want to go through all the hassle of pushing content to the TV when I can just start Netflix from my Blu-ray player? Chromecast is a great solution for generation mobile but other than it being cheap I really can't see it taking off with the technophobes out there.

You can start Netflux from your HDTV too, why would you want to buy a $500 "media center"? Any set top box shouldn't cost more than 50 from 2013 and onward. The Chromecast is just there to set the base line.
 

CoG

Member
You can start Netflux from your HDTV too, why would you want to buy a $500 "media center"? Any set top box shouldn't cost more than 50 from 2013 and onward. The Chromecast is just there to set the base line.

I agree to that. I'd say $99 and below is acceptable. Most people will just want the functionality out-of-the-box on their TV or disc player (which is a waining market). At $499 a media center is a joke. Nobody is going to pay that much and have to have a bulky camera on top of their TV just to watch Netflix and Hulu.
 

jdmonmou

Member
I don't think we'll see a major shakeup at Microsoft anytime soon. However, I am now starting to believe that this generation of traditional boxed consoles may be the last. These consoles cost a whole lot of money for each company to make and they don't make a profit back despite selling a lot of hardware and software. I am not sure what Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo will do 7 or 8 years from now, but I won't be shocked if they didn't announce new consoles.

My prediction:

I think a likely possibility is that this generation of consoles will transition us into cloud gaming. Xbox live will have cloud and Playstation will have Gaikai. 7 or 8 years from now Microsoft and Sony won't be asking people to buy their new systems, they'll be asking us to subscribe monthly to Xbox Live or Gaikai where you can play all your games on the cloud.
 

Toski

Member
The "devices and services" mantra is an awful one that is actively harming the company in key business areas.

It is also one that is inarguably failing with the sole exception of the xbox brand, and again, to an investor it is debatable how successful Xbox as a whole has been.

Surface has been massively costly to MS extremely recently, not just in terms of their phenomenal marketing budget, or in the amount of unsold stock they have had to write off - but also in their OEM partnerships, because the very same people who traditionally aided MS in their software sales are now having to directly compete against them, but without the benefit of being able to award themselves free licences for Windows RT / Windows 8 like MS can.

The problem with Ballmer is that he perpetuated the stereotype of Microsoft as the company you don't like, but have to deal with. Ballmer's greatest failure as CEO was not putting on a good face for the general public aside from the Xbox 360. Vista, Kin, Windows Phone 7/8, Surface RT, and the previous policies of the Xbox One do not help Microsoft in getting a good rep with the general public while Google and Apple create positive images with their consumer products for the most part.

If MS still wants to sell to the general public, they're going to have to think long and hard about their internal policies, and a new CEO who can get them a positive rep with the general public, otherwise they should cut fat and become the new IBM.
 

Terra

Member
I don't think we'll see a major shakeup at Microsoft anytime soon. However, I am now starting to believe that this generation of traditional boxed consoles may be the last. These consoles cost a whole lot of money for each company to make and they don't make a profit back despite selling a lot of hardware and software. I am not sure what Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo will do 7 or 8 years from now, but I won't be shocked if they didn't announce new consoles.

My prediction:

I think a likely possibility is that this generation of consoles will transition us into cloud gaming. Xbox live will have cloud and Playstation will have Gaikai. 7 or 8 years from now Microsoft and Sony won't be asking people to buy their new systems, they'll be asking us to subscribe monthly to Xbox Live or Gaikai where you can play all your games on the cloud.

I get a little bit dizzy of this post.

You still need hardware (processor, GPU, memory) to play, right?
 

timlot

Banned
Excerpt from Mary Jo Foley interview with Steve Ballmer and Lead Board Member John Thompson after he announced his retirement.
http://www.zdnet.com/microsofts-bal...-want-to-be-ibm-or-apple-and-more-7000019812/

Q: I'm curious why you guys are so taken with being a player in consumer. Why not 'just' be IBM? You're already so successful in enterprise, why not just focus there?

Ballmer: I would say -- and I'm going to actually even let John (Thompson) echo, because this is one where I think the board and I are on the same page together, but it takes some thinking to get there.

The key isn't are you in consumer or are you in enterprise. If you're going to be in e-mail, you're going to be in e-mail. You can't say, okay, I only want to be in enterprise e-mail. If you're in real time communications, what, you only want to let enterprise people talk to enterprise people but never talk to consumers? These experiences span.

Similarly, if you're in devices -- and we are in devices. With Windows, the Windows operating system means we are in device definition. And nobody has ever managed to figure out how to build a device for a user that was just enterprise or just consumer. These core experiences do span, 'consumer and enterprise.' These core devices span consumer and enterprise.

So I know there's a lot of press, blah, blah, blah about this, but the truth of the matter is I don't even know how you could opt, what it would mean to just opt to be all enterprise, unless you want to look like Oracle and not participate in certain high value activities, or you want to choose to look like Apple and not participate in certain enterprise activities. But that's not where we grew up. We grew up with a horizontal experience called Windows and Office that's equally applicable to people in their personal lives and their professional lives.

Thompson: I think it's quite obvious that the consumerization of IT is going on around the world, and if this company is to remain relevant, it's got to have a meaningful position across the spectrum of the user base and the industry. And so to suggest that you can just be successful in the enterprise space and not have an impact on the business or the industry because of what's going on in the consumer segment I think is a little narrow in the definition of what the company can be.

If you look at history, history would suggest that the fact that some other big companies in this industry didn't focus on the consumer segment has made them increasingly less relevant in shaping the agenda for this industry. And I don't think that's an important attribute that we want to pursue at Microsoft. We want to be relevant forever, and that's about having a broad based portfolio with the right balance between the consumer and the enterprise segment.
 

jdmonmou

Member
I get a little bit dizzy of this post.

You still need hardware (processor, GPU, memory) to play, right?

The infrastructure would all be in the cloud and you will stream the game over the internet to your TV. This would be similar to what OnLive was trying to do and what Sony promises to do for PS3 backwards compatibility on the PS4.

It costs a lot of money for them to make a new system every generation and they normally have to sell these systems at a loss to get people to buy them. By moving to the cloud model they could make more money for less of an investment.

Also, I think that the only way you'll be able to play a game locally on your own hardware is with a PC or with a Nintendo console when Microsoft and Sony move to the cloud.
 

Brimstone

my reputation is Shadowruined
I don't think we'll see a major shakeup at Microsoft anytime soon. However, I am now starting to believe that this generation of traditional boxed consoles may be the last. These consoles cost a whole lot of money for each company to make and they don't make a profit back despite selling a lot of hardware and software. I am not sure what Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo will do 7 or 8 years from now, but I won't be shocked if they didn't announce new consoles.

My prediction:

I think a likely possibility is that this generation of consoles will transition us into cloud gaming. Xbox live will have cloud and Playstation will have Gaikai. 7 or 8 years from now Microsoft and Sony won't be asking people to buy their new systems, they'll be asking us to subscribe monthly to Xbox Live or Gaikai where you can play all your games on the cloud.

Game consummers desire low latency. Hence the trend for 60hz multiplayer.

Look at the complaints at Kinect that stem from high latency.

Look at the complaints about HDTV latency. Sony finally woke up to this and their TVs are now are lower latency and are looked on more favorably.

Cloud Gaming will add latency...

7 years from now there will be a new generation of hardware. After that who knows.
 

tino

Banned
The infrastructure would all be in the cloud and you will stream the game over the internet to your TV. This would be similar to what OnLive was trying to do and what Sony promises to do for PS3 backwards compatibility on the PS4.

It costs a lot of money for them to make a new system every generation and they normally have to sell these systems at a loss to get people to buy them. By moving to the cloud model they could make more money for less of an investment.

Also, I think that the only way you'll be able to play a game locally on your own hardware is with a PC or with a Nintendo console when Microsoft and Sony move to the cloud.

My problem with this philosophy is that cloud gaming doesn't rely on the platform. Google can get Cloud COD ported to Chromecast at a blink of an eye. Therefore there is no reason for the consumers to buy Sony and Xbox consoles no matter how cheap they are. I don't think either Playstation or Xbox will take that path as primary gaming method.

Also it doesn't work for half of the world due to shitty internet connection. Are you going to give up that part of the market? Don't think so.

Plus 4K is coming so at least for Sony they are not going to push Cloud gaming that much.
 
In what amount of money made, 360 made far more money than PS3. That is the biggest measure

And Wii made more money than both of them. Please do not derail a perfectly good thread with fanboy nonsense.

There isn't a chance in hell that they would spin off xbox. If they really are a services company, getting rid of the hugely profitable xbox live wouldn't really help you on your way
 

jdmonmou

Member
Game consummers desire low latency. Hence the trend for 60hz multiplayer.

Look at the complaints at Kinect that stem from high latency.

Look at the complaints about HDTV latency. Sony finally woke up to this and their TVs are now are lower latency and are looked on more favorably.

Cloud Gaming will add latency...

7 years from now there will be a new generation of hardware. After that who knows.

The latency problem will be solved eventually, and it's not a stretch to think it will be solved within the next 7 years. Xbox One and PS4 are mechanisms to test and fine tune their cloud services...work out the issues that cloud gaming present. Once they have done that, then they will ditch the console based model and switch completely over to the cloud. I believe that's the long term vision at both Microsoft and Sony.
 

Raoh

Member
A samsung xbox....that would be an interesting mix

I prefer Apple Game Center

I believe Apple would put more into quality assurance not only in hardware but demand it from publishers and developers. They would also give Sony a run in the Indie game world and challenge Nintendo in the Family Gaming department.
 
In what amount of money made, 360 made far more money than PS3. That is the biggest measure

to what end? Did that more money help MS secure and more powerful console than Sony: NOPE, did that more money get them more exclusives than Sony: NOPE, did that more money help them organize a bigger worldwide launch before Sony....survey says, NOPE

So all in all MS making more money has helped them in advantage to Sony in literally *goes back to count* ZERO ways. So again, in the end how much did that really matter???
 

Cake Boss

Banned
It wasn't bad for the consumers during their PS1/2 heydays though.

Yeah thats when they had competition from Nintendo and Sega.

Look at the 180 they did when they were getting creamed by MS and NINTENDO in the beginning of this generation.

Competition is everything in this industry, look how fast MS turned around.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
to what end? Did that more money help MS secure and more powerful console than Sony: NOPE, did that more money get them more exclusives than Sony: NOPE, did that more money help them organize a bigger worldwide launch before Sony....survey says, NOPE

So all in all MS making more money has helped them in advantage to Sony in literally *goes back to count* ZERO ways. So again, in the end how much did that really matter???

So by this definition, Sony's PS2 success didn't "really matter"??? NOPE
 

jdmonmou

Member
My problem with this philosophy is that cloud gaming doesn't rely on the platform. Google can get Cloud COD ported to Chromecast at a blink of an eye. Therefore there is no reason for the consumers to buy Sony and Xbox consoles no matter how cheap they are. I don't think either Playstation or Xbox will take that path as primary gaming method.

Also it doesn't work for half of the world due to shitty internet connection. Are you going to give up that part of the market? Don't think so.

Plus 4K is coming so at least for Sony they are not going to push Cloud gaming that much.

Cloud gaming doesn't rely on a specific hardware platform, but in a cloud service-subscription based model there's no reason for them to sell you an expensive Xbox or Playstation anymore. The next Xbox and Playstation may just be a small, compact Roku looking box. Or you may not even need a box at all as Sony could sell you a TV with a Playstation gaming app that connects to the internet so you can play your whole gaming library in the cloud.

I agree that most of the world would not want such a service due to internet bandwidth issues, but we're talking about the future. There's no reason to believe that these internet bandwidth issues won't be resolved by then. Also, Microsoft was willing to write off a whole lot of countries this year with its online DRM policies for the Xbox One.

The cost involved in developing a new console every generation is too much for little return. By getting gamers to pay them a subscription fee on a monthly basis for cloud gaming with no spend in the costs associated with designing, manufacturing, and marketing a new console sounds like a huge opportunity for Microsoft and Sony. Whether or not it's successful depends a lot on how well they do in getting gamers acclimated to the cloud on the Xbox One and PS4. They will be pushing cloud gaming hard this generation.
 

Brimstone

my reputation is Shadowruined
The latency problem will be solved eventually, and it's not a stretch to think it will be solved within the next 7 years. Xbox One and PS4 are mechanisms to test and fine tune their cloud services...work out the issues that cloud gaming present. Once they have done that, then they will ditch the console based model and switch completely over to the cloud. I believe that's the long term vision at both Microsoft and Sony.

I suspect the rate of improvement for internet latency will be slow.

Sony and Panasonic are working on a new disc format to replace Blu-Ray. In seven years people are still going to Wal-Mart to buy household items. To have a console with no serious physical presence is massive risk.
 

tino

Banned
Cloud gaming doesn't rely on a specific hardware platform, but in a cloud service-subscription based model there's no reason for them to sell you an expensive Xbox or Playstation anymore. The next Xbox and Playstation may just be a small, compact Roku looking box. Or you may not even need a box at all as Sony could sell you a TV with a Playstation gaming app that connects to the internet so you can play your whole gaming library in the cloud.

Like I said PS/Xbox would lose to Apple/Google in the cheap console game

I agree that most of the world would not want such a service due to internet bandwidth issues, but we're talking about the future. There's no reason to believe that these internet bandwidth issues won't be resolved by then. Also, Microsoft was willing to write off a whole lot of countries this year with its online DRM policies for the Xbox One.

MS skipping a bunch of countries speak for volume of the uncertainty of their console's long term goal. I don't think the game console business model itself is not sound. Look even Valve want to get into this business. The question is do you want to good high end a la Steambox or lowend ala Oura level of cheap box.


The cost involved in developing a new console every generation is too much for little return. By getting gamers to pay them a subscription fee on a monthly basis for cloud gaming with no spend in the costs associated with designing, manufacturing, and marketing a new console sounds like a huge opportunity for Microsoft and Sony. Whether or not it's successful depends a lot on how well they do in getting gamers acclimated to the cloud on the Xbox One and PS4. They will be pushing cloud gaming hard this generation.

I think thats the reason both Sony and Microsoft are getting out of console R&D this generation. Both of them are using off the shell PC solution because there is no point to R&D a faster box with minimal performance gain.

I don't want to derail this discussion into the "future of console gaming" but I think next generation we will see multiple tier of hardware options for both home and mobile, playing similar content in multiple tiers of graphic output. So in other words, even more like PC gaming.

Now back to the topic. 10+ years ago Bill Gates got into game console business because at that time gaming console aea is where the battle of living room computer were fought; but right now, the battlefield has long changed to something else. That "something else" right now that decide the future of smart home is being fought in smartphone world and will probably shift to "ecosystem" a few years down the road. MS should accept they have lost this battle. Or withdraw the resource from home console world and double down on smartphone if they want to.
 

Sydle

Member
People arguing against the idea of a device-agnostic Xbox future haven't been paying attention very closely for the last 10 years, or forgot the all-digital future MS wanted NOW just a few months ago. Microsoft set their 3 screens and a cloud strategy into play a long, long time ago and made it clear that they were moving everything to the cloud.

IBM thought the personal PC wasn't the future back in the 90s, it was the cloud and the hardware that would power it (and they were a loser in the OS space), that's why they cut the personal PC ties and went for enterprise hardware and software that would be the necessary physical infrastructure to power the cloud. Adobe recently moved all their apps to the cloud as a service. Microsoft built out Azure, Server and Tools, and has been moving all their Business Apps (e.g., Office 365) to the cloud as a service, so it should come as no surprise they want the same for their entertainment division. Amazon, Sony, Google...everything that can be moved is being moved to the cloud under single sign-on services. The future is a devices and services future, where services are powered by the cloud and have a broader audience reach because the device specs don't matter as much. It's not outlandish, far fetched, or even all that distant.

If the Xbox vision does get complete, inside of the next 15 years "Xbox" will be more of an app for all media entertainment types. I wouldn't be surprised if the Xbox "TV" device is just Kinect 3.0 packaged with the Xbox controller, allowing you unlimited cloud storage, with your tablet or phone (Smart Glass) as alternative input methods. Or, MS could enter a deal where Kinect is built into TVs. Then you just need to buy an Xbox controller and Xbox service subscription, a service where in you buy games, movies, and a la carte TV. That has really high margin potential. But that service doesn't mean much if competing services have more compelling content, which is why MS must continue adding value across games, movies, TV, and music, thus their heavy expenditures. And they will start branching out into more development of cross-platform games, for web and mobile devices (tablet, phone).

If anyone at MS was serious about exiting the console business it would have been more easy to rationalize 10 years ago. Today it's just a stupid idea. When the market is growing and moving towards a software as a service model, where your company (MS) shines, where the margins could be significantly higher than they are today, and especially where the division is not losing money, you keep investing.

Like I said PS/Xbox would lose to Apple/Google in the cheap console game

MS skipping a bunch of countries speak for volume of the uncertainty of their console's long term goal. I don't think the game console business model itself is not sound. Look even Valve want to get into this business. The question is do you want to good high end a la Steambox or lowend ala Oura level of cheap box.

I think thats the reason both Sony and Microsoft are getting out of console R&D this generation. Both of them are using off the shell PC solution because there is no point to R&D a faster box with minimal performance gain.

I don't want to derail this discussion into the "future of console gaming" but I think next generation we will see multiple tier of hardware options for both home and mobile, playing similar content in multiple tiers of graphic output. So in other words, even more like PC gaming.

Now back to the topic. 10+ years ago Bill Gates got into game console business because at that time gaming console aea is where the battle of living room computer were fought; but right now, the battlefield has long changed to something else. That "something else" right now that decide the future of smart home is being fought in smartphone world and will probably shift to "ecosystem" a few years down the road. MS should accept they have lost this battle. Or withdraw the resource from home console world and double down on smartphone if they want to.

MS and Sony wouldn't lose if their apps/devices were the only ones you could access their exclusive content, respectively. It's going to be all about the content. With the high margins on a software service they could more easily subsidize their hardware, or go the mobile-phone route and let you have it free or cheap for a service contract.

The living room isn't going anywhere - the battlefield expanded. Withdrawing resources from being an entertainment source across all 3 screens would not be smart, because that's where Sony, Google, and Amazon are going to be. People still want experiences on a big screen, and that ain't phone or tablet.
 

Rolf NB

Member
The infrastructure would all be in the cloud and you will stream the game over the internet to your TV. This would be similar to what OnLive was trying to do and what Sony promises to do for PS3 backwards compatibility on the PS4.

It costs a lot of money for them to make a new system every generation and they normally have to sell these systems at a loss to get people to buy them. By moving to the cloud model they could make more money for less of an investment.

Also, I think that the only way you'll be able to play a game locally on your own hardware is with a PC or with a Nintendo console when Microsoft and Sony move to the cloud.
Building a server that can render and deliver any game at the same quality as a home console actually costs more, not less. You need basically the same device as the home console, but you add electricity, network and maintenance on top of the cost of the device. Those are costs that the consumer would absorb if they put the device into their own home. And then you're streaming video, which is an entirely new cost on top.
 

t26

Member
I suspect the rate of improvement for internet latency will be slow.

Sony and Panasonic are working on a new disc format to replace Blu-Ray. In seven years people are still going to Wal-Mart to buy household items. To have a console with no serious physical presence is massive risk.

Well 7 years ago we didn't think people would stop going to a physical store for book and music either.
 

Dio

Banned
The latency problem will be solved eventually, and it's not a stretch to think it will be solved within the next 7 years. Xbox One and PS4 are mechanisms to test and fine tune their cloud services...work out the issues that cloud gaming present. Once they have done that, then they will ditch the console based model and switch completely over to the cloud. I believe that's the long term vision at both Microsoft and Sony.

Unless we find a way to cheat the god damned speed of light, latency will never be fixed.
 

Brian Digitalz

Neo Member
Anyone who thinks the Xbox division has been in the negatives for the whole life of the 360 is an idiot period - and anyone who thinks MS can sell the Xbox division is even dumber
 

Finalizer

Member
Another tidbit on the cloud gaming thing - if VR actually takes off within this generation, we'll see a sudden jump in demand for 4k/120FPS in the hardcore gaming segment. That is not going to be accomplished with cloud gaming.

Anyone who thinks the Xbox division has been in the negatives for the whole life of the 360 is an idiot period

When referring to the losses of the Xbox division, it's mostly pointed to the entire lifetime, including from the original Xbox which incurred massive losses. And don't forget that billion dollar writeoff early in the 360's lifetime. There's plenty of graphs on the first page of this thread that give an idea of how much money MS has poured into the Xbox division, and it becomes easy to see why investors aren't terribly thrilled with MS' continued support of it.
 
EA doesn't have the cash on hand to facilitate either a buyout of the XBox brand or especially the launch of another console in the future. Remember back in 2011 when they bought PopCap? They paid $650 million in cash...which at the time was a whopping 40% of their cash on hand.
 

admartian

Member
No no no no no no no to an Apple owned Xbox. You think MS is proprietary/nickel & diming you now? lol Apple will charge you to even update the bloody console. If this is the case, Xbox One $899 confirmed.

Samsung one will be expensive too. No to EA/Acti owning it. And I would lol just for nostalgia if Sega ended up buying it. No to a Nintendo/Sony owned Xbox; that means no competition, which is not good. Plus, Sony won't be able to afford it anyway.

A Valve-run Xbox would be great though. And a Google/Amazon one would sound intriguing.
 
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