What benefits did the PICA200 offer 3DS over Tegra 2 to convince Nintendo to switch?
Tegra 2 didn't perform as promised. That was likely enough.
What benefits did the PICA200 offer 3DS over Tegra 2 to convince Nintendo to switch?
It was running too hot and not performing as advertised the stories said.What benefits did the PICA200 offer 3DS over Tegra 2 to convince Nintendo to switch?
Wouldn't a 28nm chip be too large to use in a handheld device?
Yeah I would think they would need to die shrink considerably to be feasible. It was more interesting timing than anything. Nvidia would have to mess up bad to lose another contract.
How likely is it that Nintendo changed their mind on Nvidia 2x in a row?
0.1%.How likely is it that Nintendo changed their mind on Nvidia 2x in a row?
Which DMP chip are you guys talking about? The M3000? They advertise it as having a low power consumption & being a chip for mobile machines. Maybe it'd be an option if the Nvidia deal falls through somehow, but I really don't think that'd happen again. I'm gonna stick with Nvidia on NX.
Wouldn't a 28nm chip be too large to use in a handheld device?
How likely is it that Nintendo changed their mind on Nvidia 2x in a row?
Which DMP chip are you guys talking about? The M3000? They advertise it as having a low power consumption & being a chip for mobile machines. Maybe it'd be an option if the Nvidia deal falls through somehow, but I really don't think that'd happen again. I'm gonna stick with Nvidia on NX.
0.1%.
I'd pretty much call the Tegra being inside the NX handheld a lock right now.
The process node is a factor in determining the density of a chip, not the size. Also, that DMP chip is 28nm?
The M3000 (assuming this is the one you've been talking about here) is 28nm, yes.
DMPの新世代GPU IPコアを搭載したSoC製品はは2017年前半に出荷される予定です。
That's interesting. It would be very "Nintendo" to use an old process like that lol, especially since the 20nm process of the X1 just wasn't very good and 16nmFF+ is very new.
We don't even know the potential Tegra X2 range of performance.DMP announced a new chip for first half 2017. It looks to be in the potential Tegra X2 range of performance but there simply isn't enough details on it and I really doubt Nvidia would get dumped again
Ok, but honestly, i don't see the point in writing pages about something like this. Tegra 2 was dumped because Nvidia failed to deliver and the chip was sub-par compared to what they promised, but after seeing how TX1 performs there's no reason to assume this will happen again, especially with a new product on a node that doesn't suck ass (20nm) and with a better architecture than Maxwell.Pessimism, nothing has been confirmed.
We may as well speculate that Nintendo will go with Qualcomm or PowerVR etc and dig through financial reports and press releases for hours on end.
Yeah, pretty much. Until a substantial leak happens (possibly about the new devkits teased by lcgeek) or the reveal, there's not much to discuss. But rather than discussing the possibility of Nintendo dumping Nvidia for DMP because it happened in the past maybe it's better to just wait hahaI don't think there's anything left to discuss with it at this point. I'm not sure why DMP got brought up in the first place. They're not Nintendo's choice for NX. (This is my opinion, feel free to voice yours or keep talking about DMP if you think there's any substance in those discussions.)
Is there a specific reason why we're still talking about DMP?
Is there a specific reason why we're still talking about DMP?
I don't think there's anything left to discuss with it at this point. I'm not sure why DMP got brought up in the first place. They're not Nintendo's choice for NX. (This is my opinion, feel free to voice yours or keep talking about DMP if you think there's any substance in those discussions.)
Self proclaimed insiders have stepped forward...I agree. It's been how many weeks now since Eurogamer started those NX rumours and no insiders have stepped forward to say,"That's not correct, NX is powered by AMD x86 Polaris tech!"
Yep, none whatsoever yet.
Instead we get IGN, Kotaku and WSJ backing up Eurogamer's report.
All I want is an HD Monster Hunter with AA.
Because it's a more charming and interesting visual direction than the tedious "realistic" aesthetic?
I know I'd be very disappointed if a hypothetical Bravely Third on NX looked like FFXV rather than like Bravely Default. It's a much more charming art style and I hate games going for the realistic aesthetic, it does nothing for me.
I agree. It's been how many weeks now since Eurogamer started those NX rumours and no insiders have stepped forward to say,"That's not correct, NX is powered by AMD x86 Polaris tech!"
Yep, none whatsoever yet.
Instead we get IGN, Kotaku and WSJ backing up Eurogamer's report.
Pokemon Sun and Moon should be fun to play on the big screen if this thing is backwards compatible
Self proclaimed insiders have stepped forward...
Wasn't chibI a design choice due to 3ds having weird 800 240 resolution giving devs lots of horizontal resolution but not vertical ones?
I'm just saying nothing of substance has stepped forward. No reputable outlet has dismissed the report.I can't remember whom, I'm just baiting any around now.
I can only remember that one guy that failed the verification process just a couple of days ago.
You'd think if these mythical AMD devices existed, at least some reputable outlet would have heard about it. I think we should just focus on the device that has been reported. If we fall into the habit of saying "Well, maybe it'll come later, don't write off AMD, a console will come, etc.," we'll be saying that over and over again even if Nintendo only revealed the device described by Eurogamer.I'm just saying nothing of substance has stepped forward. No reputable outlet has dismissed the report.
I'm just saying nothing of substance has stepped forward. No reputable outlet has dismissed the report.
You'd think if these mythical AMD devices existed, at least some reputable outlet would have heard about it. I think we should just focus on the device that has been reported. If we fall into the habit of saying "Well, maybe it'll come later, don't write off AMD, a console will come, etc.," we'll be saying that over and over again even if Nintendo only revealed the device described by Eurogamer.
This is the wise thing to do. I'm not sure why this case is special, and people are so readily to dismiss the reports of IGN, WSJ, Tweaktown, EG, etc...
Oh, I misread what you were saying before as though there was still doubt with the Eurogamer report.
This is the wise thing to do. I'm not sure why this case is special, and people are so readily to dismiss the reports of IGN, WSJ, Tweaktown, EG, etc...
Well, I can't blame anyone for dismissing IGN or Tweaktown. It's the amount of corroboration, though (which is also why I'm still not very confident in your Pascal claim, no offense).
So...NX might not be using Tegra is what you're saying?Well, I can't blame anyone for dismissing IGN or Tweaktown. It's the amount of corroboration, though (which is also why I'm still not very confident in your Pascal claim, no offense).
Well, there are those who doubt the report - as you have seen readily on Twitter with HNF. No website worth a damn has reported conflicting reports, however. Which is odd since never before have we seen a situation where a base is so adamant that multiple sites are wrong while presenting no evidence or proof beyond speculation to support their claims.
A lot of people (myself included) don't necessarily disagree with the Tegra rumors, but just think there is more to the NX than the information we've heard. I personally think the info from both you and Eurogamer is legit, but I also suspect there's an SCD or other console involved that we haven't yet "officially" heard about.
So...NX might not be using Tegra is what you're saying?
Maybe all these rumors are just false, and the patent stuff is just that: patents. I'd rather Nintendo suddenly come out of the woodworks with a surprise Nintendo Direct announcement than need to really analyze deeply into Eurogamer/Digital Foundry's claims.
I guess if there's one thing to take away from all this, is that it has set expectations for Nintendo's next console very low, almost to the point that you can hear the naysayers claim "go 3rd party" or bust. Considering how much they surprised people at E3 with one title (BotW), surprised people with PokemonGO (despite naysayers claiming Ninty had no involvement, see Iwata in deathbed thread), I kinda feel NX will also be a surprise in that regard, regardless of what 3rd party publishers, or NeoGAF, might think. It's not even about the Tegra or what chip they use anymore: It's how they implement it and what they plan to do moving forward.
In my opinion, I'm not going to expect any secret sauce in the dock and, I'm not expecting much from the SCD either. I think the SCD should be treated as it's name says, a supplement.
I imagine the SCD has to be something affordable and not be treated as a console upgrade. I would think just releasing the next iteration of the NX is the upgrade.
Then we have to look at what the SCD can do, I imagine at the minimum it gives a boost in CPU performance, things get expensive adding a GPU in there. Then as I've heard, it would need the Thunderbolt peripheral to transfer so much data at high speeds or the NVlink but I can't say much more if this is likely to happen.
Certain people in the know here have said the CPU is better than PS4/Xbone by a reasonable amount, so I envision the potential SCD being pretty much just a graphics chip and power supply to output in higher resolution to a TV. Off the shelf price for an RX 480 is $199. RX 470 is $179. I imagine Nintendo could get pretty deep discounts on that. So, ideally the main unit itself would be $200-$250, and the SCD could be $150-$200, which would give you a portable console, tablet, and powerful home console for around the PS4/Xbone launch price. This could be wishful thinking on my part, but it seems like it could at least be feasible.
That is a disaster to market. We're talking about a peripheral that would be the next Wii U at that price. Most people would prefer to just buy the next iteration of the NX.
Also, it's been claimed that the CPU in the NX is more powerful than Xbox One but, it is still weak compared to desktop CPUs.
You also didn't mention what method of transfer it would use to transfer upto hundreds of GBs per second since you are using an external GPU.
Which DMP chip ?
DMP announced a new chip for first half 2017. It looks to be in the potential Tegra X2 range of performance but there simply isn't enough details on it and I really doubt Nvidia would get dumped again
DMP, domestic GPU IP "M3000" series corresponding to Vulkan
Power efficiency in the industry at ~ TFLOPS-class performance
Shinji Nakamura August 9, 2016
Digital Media Professionals Inc. (DMP) has announced the availability of the company's third-generation GPU "Musashi" computing was developed based computing / 3D graphics for GPU IP core "M3000" series.
M3000 series is a GPU aimed at applications that require a high level of graphics performance, such as visual computing and VR / AR applications, "OpenGL ES3.2" and "Vulkan" in the latest graphics API standard, parallel computing standard It will conform to the "OpenCL".
When compared with the same manufacturing process as SMAPH-S of the previous generation, to achieve 50% of the size reduction and 2 times the operating frequency was improved about six-fold performance including optimizations such as the new instruction set. M3400 is a top level that comprises a computing performance of TFLOPS level.
Use applications, smartphone / tablet, games, car (automatic operation), over security cameras, medical equipment, robot, variety, such as digital consumer electronics. 3D graphics as well, also to be preferred, such as in deep learning. As graphics capability, supports deferred shading rendering system used by Unreal Engine 4. In addition, the power-saving performance by the size of the GPU size than competitors is high, and has led to cost reduction.
SoC equipped with the M3000 series is scheduled to ship the first half of 2017.
That is a disaster to market. We're talking about a peripheral that would be the next Wii U at that price. Most people would prefer to just buy the next iteration of the NX.
Also, it's been claimed that the CPU in the NX is more powerful than Xbox One but, it is still weak compared to desktop CPUs.
You also didn't mention what method of transfer it would use to transfer upto hundreds of GBs per second since you are using an external GPU.
I think it would be pretty simple to market. Like I said, you could have a portable console, tablet, and powerful home console all in one... Or, just a portable console and tablet. The base portable would be marketed towards casual gamers and 3DS owners, and the SCD would be a relatively inexpensive add-on to appeal to core gamers looking for something more competitive with PS4 Neo.
I think it would be pretty simple to market. Like I said, you could have a portable console, tablet, and powerful home console all in one... Or, just a portable console and tablet. The base portable would be marketed towards casual gamers and 3DS owners, and the SCD would be a relatively inexpensive add-on to appeal to core gamers looking for something more competitive with PS4 Neo. The full console + SCD package could be sold bundled at a combined discount, or the SCD could be sold individually to people who might want to wait to upgrade.
As for it being weaker than desktop CPUs, that's certainly true, but it still compares favorably to the Jaguar CPUs in the PS4/Neo, which is what devs will be targeting.
Is it possible for them to license Tegras only to be used in devkits? Because even if early devkits had Tegras in them, they still had to pay royalties regardless.Seems this is what DMP will be offering.
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I'd prefer Nvidia Tegra (semi custom X1 or X2) over DMP just because every developer is familiar with their architecture, tools, software ecosystem, etc.
I doubt DMP's M3000 would really be able to match Tegra X2 in practice which is what counts, not paper specs.
Is it possible for them to license Tegras only to be used in devkits? Because even if early devkits had Tegras in them, they still had to pay royalties regardless.
DMP might have been a possibility, but I'm not so sure how this will allign with NX's launch timeline.
Unless it matches Neo/Scorpio in specs then the pricing could be okay.
The other thing I was wondering was that wouldn't the NX need more RAM then since we're talking about a hybrid that is most likely to use LPDDR4 RAM?
Thinking about it some more. As long as there is going to be no NX home console (Unless it's just a PS Vita TV version of the hybrid) it should be okay. I just don't agree with selling it at the price you suggest. Unless it matches Neo/Scorpio in specs then the pricing could be okay. The other thing I was wondering was that wouldn't the NX need more RAM then since we're talking about a hybrid that is most likely to use LPDDR4 RAM?