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[Farmboy]

What GC third party launch titles sold as much as RR and RS besides Rogue Leader anyway?

Let's see... Sonic Adventure 2: Battle did great (it was more of a 'launch window' title, but then so was Secret Rings), there was Monkey Ball, of course (it did much better than the Wii version -- of course, it was a much better game). And I seem to recall Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3 doing well as an 'also ran', though I'm not sure if it hit anywhere near million.

And that's the state of Wii third-party development as I see it. There's a lot of shit. There's some good stuff too, but it tends to be confined to either ports (DBZ, RE4) or bizarre genre experiments that wouldn't have sold well on a Jesus Box (Elebits). The game I'm MOST disappointed regarding sales, from this list, is SSX: Blur. It's a very enjoyable reinvention of the snowboard game and it tanked.

I guess you're right. Mercury Meltdown is another one in the 'good, but a port' category. The Wii version of Harry Potter wasn't half bad, either -- looked like they put some thought into it -- I guess turning the Wiimote into a wand is pretty much a no-brainer, but at least it worked.

Between the two of us, I think we've pretty much covered the worthwhile titles (I suppose I should mention Trauma Center; I haven't played it myself), so yes, there are a few -- it's not especially bad for a first year and really no worse than the PS3. But I'm still waiting for something on the level of Monkey Ball or Rogue Squadron and it's kind of disappointing knowing the Cube had those from launch.

 

[Pureauthor]

Not so sure about handheld being plural, if you know what I mean.

Well, every great ruler needs a successor sooner or later, no?

 

[Version 3.0]

Holy crap, what a bitch-fest.

Who cares how shitty 3rd-party games sell on the Wii? Well, I do--I want them to bomb, and bomb hard. Success will only breed more shitty games. And you can include Madden in that.

I want to see the good ones sell, and so far I'm not too disappointed. I'd love to see more good ones, but I'm not rooting for all 3rd-party games because of that.

The Wii is just another Gamecube to me--I want a lot of Nintendo's 1st-party games, and whatever else that arrives that's good. Its position in the market doesn't change that in the slightest.

360 game sales are great? Fine, keep making 360 games. I don't see the problem here, either. I'm not planning on throwing out my 360 anytime soon.

Nintendo's now on top without relying on 3rd parties for much help. And if 3rd parties don't want a piece of that fast-growing pie--or don't want to put any effort into getting a piece--then that's their problem, a lot more than it is mine.

 

[speculawyer]

And handhelds inherit the earth?

I like where this is going.

They are meek.

 

[speculawyer]

Who cares how shitty 3rd-party games sell on the Wii? Well, I do--I want them to bomb, and bomb hard. Success will only breed more shitty games. And you can include Madden in that.

I want to see the good ones sell, and so far I'm not too disappointed. I'd love to see more good ones, but I'm not rooting for all 3rd-party games because of that.

Prepare for disappointment.

 

[Farmboy]

For anyone dismissing or doubting 3rd party titles on the Wii this fall lineup, do you actually know what's coming out for the Wii for the holidays besides Super Mario Galaxy and Brawl?

A couple of multiplatform titles are promising, and deserve mention, Guitar Hero 3 first and foremost. I'm definitely interested in seeing how that will perform, esp. compared to the other versions -- it seems a good match for the console and its casual audience. The Simpsons also might do reasonably well, as might Spider-Man, Tony Hawk, Tomb Raider, Lego Star Wars and Table Tennis (Bully will probably bomb, though). They won't all be successful, and I expect none to set the charts alight, but quite a few of them should show a profit.

Of course, of primary interest are the exclusive titles. Zack & Wiki looks interesting, but most of the others could go either way -- early impressions have been mixed for all of these: RE:UC, Dewy's Adventure, SC: Legends and Mario & Sonic. Swing Golf 2 and RRR2 are sequels to games that personally didn't wow me, though I can see the latter doing well. Haven't played the original Trauma Center. I'm not yet seeing the Wii's Monkey Ball or Viewtiful Joe here, but I hope I'm proven wrong.

I do fear that they'll all be crushed by the first party steamroller, though. Heck, I'm worried about Fire Emblem's chances, and that's first party...

Did I miss anything important? I'm sure I did.

 

[Pureauthor]

Haven't played the original Trauma Center.

Correct this oversight. Now.

Wii version is preferred, but DS version will do in a pinch.

 

[Version 3.0]

Prepare for disappointment.

Yeah, I saw that, but we heard the same stuff from sources like that about the PS3's turnaround, and look how that turned out.

 

[Version 3.0]

A couple of multiplatform titles are promising, and deserve mention, Guitar Hero 3 first and foremost. I'm definitely interested in seeing how that will perform, esp. compared to the other versions -- it seems a good match for the console and its casual audience. The Simpsons also might do reasonably well, as might Spider-Man, Tony Hawk, Tomb Raider, Lego Star Wars and Table Tennis (Bully will probably bomb, though). They won't all be successful, and I expect none to set the charts alight, but quite a few of them should show a profit.

Of course, of primary interest are the excluse titles. Zack & Wiki looks interesting, but most of the others could go either way -- early impressions have been mixed for all of these: RE:UC, Dewy's Adventure, SC: Legends and Mario & Sonic. Swing Golf 2 and RRR2 are sequels to games that personally didn't wow me, though I can see the latter doing well. Haven't played the original Trauma Center. I'm not yet seeing the Wii's Monkey Ball or Viewtiful Joe here, but I hope I'm proven wrong.

I do fear that they'll all be crushed by the first party steamroller, though. Heck, I'm worried about Fire Emblem's chances, and that's first party...

Did I miss anything important? I'm sure I did.

What Nintendo should do, for all these games (especially Fire Emblem), is make the "Metroid Preview Channel" into the "Wii Preview Channel", and get them some free exposure. Now this is something they can and should be doing for 3rd parties. The competition has demos.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

By a quick bit of spreadsheet doohickery, I calculate that the average US PS3 owner has had their system 6.1 months versus 5.3 months for the average Wii owner. I could try to get more accurate by taking into account which months are 4 weeks versus 5 weeks, but hey.

OK, so... I've now bothered to do this. It assumes console sales are evenly spread out through each month. Of course this isn't exactly accurate, but close enough for GAFernment work.

X360:
297.8 million weeks of system ownership / 6.2 million owners = the average X360 owner has had their machine for 48.1 weeks

PS3:
46.2 million weeks of system ownership / 1.7 million owners = the average PS3 owner has had their machine for 26.6 weeks

Wii:
91.6 million weeks of system ownership / 4.0 million owners = the average Wii owner has had their machine for 22.8 weeks

 

[Farmboy]

What Nintendo should do, for all these games (especially Fire Emblem), is make the "Metroid Preview Channel" into the "Wii Preview Channel", and get them some free exposure. Now this is something they can and should be doing for 3rd parties. The competition has demos.

I hope the WiiWare channel will feature demos. It probably will, but it's launching in early '08, so that won't help anyone this holiday.

 

[JJConrad]

Fight Night 3
Ghost Recon AW
Oblivion
Dead Rising
Madden 2007
Rainbow Six Vegas
Call of Duty 3
NCAA 2007
NFS: Carbon
Splinter Cell: DA
Saints Row

In the 360's first year with a much slower growing userbase, sold much better than any Wii 3rd party titles released in 2007 (by NPD). I don't think more than a handful of these games would be considered AAA (RSV, Ghost Recon, Oblivion, and with a stretch, maybe Dead Rising). The budget comparisons are meaningless - to make a serviceable HD game, it's going to cost more than to make a serviceable Wii game. This is never going to change.

This is the problem with this thread. We're comparing LTD totals to the Top 20 and giving them equal value. Take NFS:Carbon, it debuted at #20 last November and never appeared again ...and I won't mention where the Xbox version placed . In fact, half of these games on that list share similar traits ... they appear once or twice in the top 20 and never rank again. That doesn't mean that these games bombed. We know through complete data that these games didn't, but if looked at them through the same prism as today they would have been considered "bombs".

In this thread, we have people like KeithFranklin delibrately misrepresenting previous charts while trying to deny the exsistance of other sources; someone comparing the tie-ratio of the 360 to the PS2 as if PS2 selling 10x more software doesn't matter; almost everybody taking the sales of 5 games (in some cases they whittle it down to 1 game) and extrapolating the sales of every other game on the systems from it. This is stupidity on parade!

I'm shocked that someone hasn't started fighting about how the PSP version of Madden outsold the DS version. The market has decided! We don't have DS numbers, but if you remember, last's year sales included only 4 digits.

 

[RiskyChris]

Great JJ, now factor in 30% 360 failure rate and average turnaround time for length of physical possession, :lol

 

[Brakara]

Didn't someone say that xbox360 was gonna sell over 500k this month or something.

Short answer: no. For the longer answer, see the prediction thread:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=187929

Summary:

360 - Agg. = 241,593; Expected Range = 145,000 to 350,000

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7814598&postcount=558

That price drop sure helped! It's back up to its pre-summer numbers!

Highest numbers since January, actually.

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

Top 20 SKU's
360 MADDEN NFL 08 896.6K
PS2 MADDEN NFL 08 643.6K
360 BIOSHOCK 490.9K
PS3 MADDEN NFL 08 336.2K
WII PLAY W/ REMOTE 256.8K
WII METROID PRIME 3: CORRUPTION 218.1K
WII MARIO STRIKERS: CHARGED 147.4K

 

[thekad]

Don't take sporsk seriously. :lol

 

[schuelma]

What, do you think that is bad?

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

What, do you think that is bad?

If I thought it was good, I would've

 

[Arde5643]

If I thought it was good, I would've

You know it was counted only for 4 days, right?

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

You know it was counted only for 4 days, right?

I know it doesn't represent many days sales, but I was still hoping for more. I didn't expect it, but I had my fingers crossed.

 

[Arde5643]

I know it doesn't represent many days sales, but I was still hoping for more. I didn't expect it, but I had my fingers crossed.

We'll have to see September's NPD to be able to see if the game bombed or not.

Based on those 4 days of sales, I'd say it won't bomb - whether or not it will be spectacular sales remains to be seen.

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

We'll have to see September's NPD to be able to see if the game bombed or not.

Based on those 4 days of sales, I'd say it won't bomb - whether or not it will be spectacular sales remains to be seen.

I just hope it's more like MP1 and less like MP2 in terms of sales. Though, even MP1 was a sales disappointment in my opinion. It was utterly fantastic, yet it got overshadowed by Splinter Sell

Spoiler

out

 

[schuelma]

I know it doesn't represent many days sales, but I was still hoping for more. I didn't expect it, but I had my fingers crossed.

You do realize it sold more in its first 4-5 days than either of the first two?

 

[Arde5643]

I just hope it's more like MP1 and less like MP2 in terms of sales. Though, even MP1 was a sales disappointment in my opinion. It was utterly fantastic, yet it got overshadowed by Splinter Sell

Spoiler

out

Like Schuelma said, it's already selling more than MP1 and MP2's first days of sales.

I'm just hoping MP3 will get really spectacular sales - hopefully the good word of mouth and excellent reviews can help that cause.

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

You do realize it sold more in its first 4-5 days than either of the first two?

Well, MP1 sold about 250,000 in it's first week. So they're pretty comparable. I'm afraid it won't have the "legs" the original had though, as it's coming up front in the big Nintendo lineup, instead of the middle just before the holidays.

 

[sphinx]

Prime 3: Corruption sold better in three or four days than Prime 2: Echoes did in two weeks. If Retro Studios' final act in the trilogy has any legs, it should easily surpass overall sales of Echoes before the end of the year and could ultimately prove to be a million-seller.

.

 

[Iama]

Bioshock less than 500K

X360 less than 300K


That's bad...

Bioshock sells well almost in every part, Europe too. There's no reason to worry about.
It was the fastest selling game at launch after GoW, wasn't it?

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Well, MP1 sold about 250,000 in it's first week. So they're pretty comparable. I'm afraid it won't have the "legs" the original had though, as it's coming up front in the big Nintendo lineup, instead of the middle just before the holidays.

That's kind of my fright with it. Released in early July and it would have had the obviously spectacularly large Wii audience to sell to over the few months. It's too close to other big name titles. I'm not sure that it will have enough time or the legs to really hold out for the long haul.

Fans love it, but I know from experience that some gamers for the most part turn a blind eye to anything Nintendo fans say. Our opinion of anything is blinded by the past. Rose tinted shades and all (mine are actually rose tinted ).

Anyway, I don't think Metroid has the weight to really come out of this fall as a big seller. Which is pretty sad as this game is freaking great. I enjoy it more then the first Prime just because of the change in controls.

My only problem with the game is those freaking anorexic Space Pirates. Sure pinpoint accuracy is great, but that was just cruel.

 

[Phoenix Down]

Bioshock sells well almost in every part, Europe too. There's no reason to worry about.
It was the fastest selling game at launch after GoW, wasn't it?

Lost planet sold a million within a couple days

 

[Brak]

Lost planet sold a million within a couple days

no.

 

[Version 3.0]

Well, MP1 sold about 250,000 in it's first week. So they're pretty comparable. I'm afraid it won't have the "legs" the original had though, as it's coming up front in the big Nintendo lineup, instead of the middle just before the holidays.

This'll be the third time I've posted this, but Prime 1 sold 250k in 10 days. Prime 3 did this 218k in 5 days (it's not 4, people, it's 5. Sep 1st is counted). So it's almost the same in half the time, and in August, whereas Prime 1 launched in the much bigger, busier month of November.

I have little doubt that Prime 3 will go on to top Prime 1's numbers fairly easily. We'll see what happens in September--I'm expecting another 250k.


http://cube.ign.com/articles/378/378902p1.html

 

[AdventureRacing]

Those 'ouch my wallet will hurt lol' posts about the fall Wii line-up seldom mention third party titles, and I bet you those spinning the Wii third party sales don't own too many third party titles themselves.

The reason those 'ouch my wallet will hurt lol' posts don't mention 3rd parties is because the quality of the 1st party titles are so much better. You are right that people spinning these numbers probably don't own many third party titles on the wii because almost all of them are garbage.

But Nintendo gamers being primarily loyal to and interested in first party titles is a factor too, and an undeniable one, even if they are often justified by the gulf in effort and quality between first and third party content on the Wii.

Also it isn't undeniable, people on boards like these may be loyal to nintendo but normal consumers hold no such loyalty. You can't judge nintendos consumers by looking at loyal nintendo fans on the internet.

In fact i think you'd be hard pressed finding casual gamers who hold any loyalty to any gaming brand. I also think you'd be hard pressed to find casual gamers who know which games are made by nintendo and which ones aren't.

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

This'll be the third time I've posted this, but Prime 1 sold 250k in 10 days. Prime 3 did this 218k in 5 days (it's not 4, people, it's 5. Sep 1st is counted). So it's almost the same in half the time, and in August, whereas Prime 1 launched in the much bigger, busier month of November.

I have little doubt that Prime 3 will go on to top Prime 1's numbers fairly easily. We'll see what happens in September--I'm expecting another 250k.


http://cube.ign.com/articles/378/378902p1.html

218k in 5 days isn't really much different than 250k in 9-10 days. It was a pretty anticipated game that had it's sales frontloaded. Does anyone have an NPD chart from November 2002 to show what MP sold for the month?

And I guess if we're gonna talk about the release dates and how they affected sales, it's only fair to also point out the Wii had a larger install base with MP3's release as well.

I really want MP3 to do well, but I fear it's going to get overshadowed by the likes of Halo 3 and Bioshock (the FPS crowd) and Brawl/Smash (Nintendo Crowd). If your estimation that it'll easily outsell Prime 1 is correct, I'd be very happy. I'm just highly doubtful.

 

[schuelma]

218k in 5 days isn't really much different than 250k in 9-10 days. It was a pretty anticipated game that had it's sales frontloaded. Does anyone have an NPD chart from November 2002 to show what MP sold for the month?

And I guess if we're gonna talk about the release dates and how they affected sales, it's only fair to also point out the Wii had a larger install base with MP3's release as well.

I really want MP3 to do well, but I fear it's going to get overshadowed by the likes of Halo 3 and Bioshock (the FPS crowd) and Brawl/Smash (Nintendo Crowd). If your estimation that it'll easily outsell Prime 1 is correct, I'd be very happy. I'm just highly doubtful.

First, I doubt the Halo crowd is going to have too much overlap with the Metroid audience.

Second, Metroid is going to have nearly two and a half months as the premiere hardcore Wii game before Galaxy. That's a lot of time.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

Not so sure about handheld being plural, if you know what I mean.

The PSP is still the second highest selling current gen console, if that is what you are talking about.

The distance between number 2 and number 3 is quite big.

 

[TheRipDizz]

I think Madden Wii sales are something that people should be watching out for. It really shouldn't be that low, with Wii's userbase. It's not like Madden is some hardcore game that really clicks with WHOAMG NEXTGEN.

One would think/hope that Wii was attracting more former PS2 owners than that.

I agree, but I will say in Wii owners partial defense- EA put out a shitty game that gave owners no reason at all to buy 08 instead of sticking with 07.

Wait a second here. Doesn't that argument hold somewhat true against Madden every year? On every platform? And what happens, consistently, every year. A Madden tsunami. Why does the Wii userbase get an excuse for not buying now? Naw. The NDF is going to have to come ALOT harder than that to blow this one off.

 

[schuelma]

I think Madden Wii sales are something that people should be watching out for. It really shouldn't be that low, with Wii's userbase. It's not like Madden is some hardcore game that really clicks with WHOAMG NEXTGEN.

One would think/hope that Wii was attracting more former PS2 owners than that.



Wait a second here. Doesn't that argument hold somewhat true against Madden every year? On every platform? And what happens, consistently, every year. A Madden tsunami. Why does the Wii userbase get an excuse for not buying now? Naw. The NDF is going to have to come ALOT harder than that to blow this one off.

I'm not blowing it off- it's disappointing, plain and simple. However, Madden Wii made no significant changes to anything and provided no incentive to upgrade. Graphics still looked bad, no real new gameplay changes, and apparently more bugs than 07.

I realize that Madden is often criticized as being a mere roster update, but it certainly looked like EA put a very good product out for 360/PS3.

Bottom line is that yes, its a concern, but much like Tiger Woods, EA didn't help themselves by what they put out into stores.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Here's a valid arguement, though the statistics may have changed since I last checked.

Doesn't the X-Box 360 still have a few million more customers in the USA than the Wii? Isn't most of the Wii's userbase still in Japan at this point? American football fans are primarily in... Well, America.

Not saying this is the reason, just probably part of the reason.

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

First, I doubt the Halo crowd is going to have too much overlap with the Metroid audience.

Second, Metroid is going to have nearly two and a half months as the premiere hardcore Wii game before Galaxy. That's a lot of time.

Well, I hope your positivity reflects the outcome of MP3's sales. I just don't see it.

 

[schuelma]

Here's a valid arguement, though the statistics may have changed since I last checked.

Doesn't the X-Box 360 still have a few million more customers in the USA than the Wii? Isn't most of the Wii's userbase still in Japan at this point? American football fans are primarily in... Well, America.

Not saying this is the reason, just probably part of the reason.

Yeah but that doesn't excuse getting outsold by the PS3 and the stinkin XBOX.

 

[mepaco]

I think Madden Wii sales are something that people should be watching out for. It really shouldn't be that low, with Wii's userbase. It's not like Madden is some hardcore game that really clicks with WHOAMG NEXTGEN.

One would think/hope that Wii was attracting more former PS2 owners than that.

Wait a second here. Doesn't that argument hold somewhat true against Madden every year? On every platform? And what happens, consistently, every year. A Madden tsunami. Why does the Wii userbase get an excuse for not buying now? Naw. The NDF is going to have to come ALOT harder than that to blow this one off.

Well, it did sell less than I expected, but not by a whole lot. Anyone who has a Wii and a 360/PS3 is not likely to buy the Wii version. I'd be willing to bet that most people who own a Wii and a PS2 would buy the PS2 version. I own a Wii (along with all the last gen consoles) and I loved 07 but, from what I heard, 08 added a family mode that I don't care about and actually regressed in terms of the controls so I decided to skip it. Maybe Wii owners are smart enough not to pay $50 for a roster update.

In any case, I think using Madden as the indicator for 3rd party sales is flawed ... but thats just me.

EDIT:

Furthermore, the PS3/360 versions are pretty close to each other...so it really looks like the next gen Madden crowd have chosen graphics over user interface.

Yeah, and I think that is to be expected. The overlap between the OMG MADDEN crowd and Wii owners/people who get excited about motion control is very small. Those that pay money every year for essentially the same thing with a new roster and upgraded graphics are in it for the upgraded graphics. Wii doesn't deliver that.

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

Here's a valid arguement, though the statistics may have changed since I last checked.

Doesn't the X-Box 360 still have a few million more customers in the USA than the Wii? Isn't most of the Wii's userbase still in Japan at this point? American football fans are primarily in... Well, America.

Not saying this is the reason, just probably part of the reason.

Ok, but the same thing could be said about the Wii against the PS3.

Furthermore, the PS3/360 versions are pretty close to each other...so it really looks like the next gen Madden crowd have chosen graphics over user interface. Maybe not something to obsess over, but definitely something to think about.

360+PS3 madden sales = 1.23 Million.

Wii madden sales = < 130k.

 

[rjcc]

Ok, but the same thing could be said about the Wii against the PS3.

Furthermore, the PS3/360 versions are pretty close to each other...so it really looks like the next gen Madden crowd have chosen graphics over user interface. Maybe not something to obsess over, but definitely something to think about.

360+PS3 madden sales = 1.23 Million.

Wii madden sales = < 130k.

what makes you think the wii madden interface is in any way superior to the 360/ps3 control scheme? even if the graphics were the same, I'm not trying to play with that waggle bullshit.

 

[Deku]

Well I wouldn't describe Square-Enix's performance on the DS as poor. Third parties will always enjoy a disadvantage when there's a strong first party force behind the hardware, but Sony and Microsoft have significantly beefed up their own publishing efforts as well because they've had to evangelize their vision of a high priced games console.

Some of the analogies being thrown around as if this was 12 years ago. It's not. The playing field is a lot more even than some would like to portray.

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

what makes you think the wii madden interface is in any way superior to the 360/ps3 control scheme? even if the graphics were the same, I'm not trying to play with that waggle bullshit.

What makes you think I think that the Wiimote is better than standard controls for Madden? Quit making up bullshit.

 

[Grecco]

Second, Metroid is going to have nearly two and a half months as the premiere hardcore Wii game before Galaxy. That's a lot of time.

Not only that but its gonna have pretty much september all to itself. With the delays of BWii to october theres very ltile that Wii owners would have bought this month. A 250k-300k month is likely. Its gonna end up selling a Million units by December.

 

[Fredescu]

What makes you think I think that the Wiimote is better than standard controls for Madden? Quit making up bullshit.

the next gen Madden crowd have chosen graphics over user interface.

Your premise is pretty much that the user interface on Wii is better. Otherwise they're choosing graphics and interface. Personally I think they're choosing graphics + known quantity over lesser graphics + un necessary changes. If you were happy with Madden 06 and just want more of the same, why would you give a shit about waggle?

 

[rjcc]

What makes you think I think that the Wiimote is better than standard controls for Madden? Quit making up bullshit.

because that's what you said?

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

Your premise is pretty much that the user interface on Wii is better. Otherwise they're choosing graphics and interface. Personally I think they're choosing graphics + known quantity over lesser graphics + un necessary changes. If you were happy with Madden 06 and just want more of the same, why would you give a shit about waggle?

Saying interface was a euphemism for saying "waggle". The selling point for the 360/PS3 is HD/Graphics/Better online supprt; the selling point for the Wii, and the only thing that sets it apart, is the user interface.

If I would have said they chose better graphics over a better interface, he would've had a point. I was just highlighting the differentiating factors of the different versions.

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

because that's what you said?

You may have misunderstood what I said, but I never stated that Wii controls were better than 360/PS3 controls. I don't believe that's close to true and I apologize for the misunderstanding.