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[Drake]

Can someone explain to me why the video game industry has just a big problem with used versions of its product.

I never hear the movie industry complaining about used DVD sales. I never hear the music industry complain about used CD sales and I never hear authors or book publishers complain about used book sales. Also you would think authors would despise libraries, but they don't. What's the deal?

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

But if the problem is publishers being too ambitious, how are we going to get new IPs like Gears of War or Assassins Creed? What if Watch Dogs doesn't meet profit expectations? If gamers are only interested in what they are familiar with (Call of Duty), and not willing to try critically acclaimed titles (Lara Croft) because they are so driven by franchise mindshare (CoD "good", Lara Croft "bad"), then who is at fault?

The first gears of war was really cheap. Granted I don't think it added engine costs but still pretty cheap.

Edit: costs less than $10 million.

 

[zkylon]

Can someone explain to me why the video game industry has just a big problem with used versions of its product.

I never hear the movie industry complaining about used DVD sales. I never hear the music industry complain about used CD sales and I never hear authors or book publishers complain about used book sales. Also you would think authors would despise libraries, but they don't. What's the deal?

I don't think there's any other entertainment product you can buy for 60 bucks, so I imagine games being more expensive than movies/dvds maybe makes them more apt for the second hand market?

 

[DrLazy]

How are used games hurting the industry? You think it has nothing to do with ridiculous high budgets and mismanagement?

Why do you think budgets are so high? The only way to make money is to sell the games week 1, not slowly build momentum for some low-hype art title. Have you noticed that XBLA, PSN, WiiWare, Steam are the only places where you see mid-tier games anymore? Used-games hurt the industry and the gamer.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

But if the problem is publishers being too ambitious, how are we going to get new IPs like Gears of War or Assassins Creed? What if Watch Dogs doesn't meet profit expectations? If gamers are only interested in what they are familiar with (Call of Duty), and not willing to try critically acclaimed titles (Lara Croft) because they are so driven by franchise mindshare (CoD "good", Lara Croft "bad"), then who is at fault?

The problem is the budget, not the ambition.

Lara Croft did really fucking well, better than anybody should have expected it to, and yet it will still make a loss. That's stupid. That's throwing away money. Of course it's used games and piracy and the market doesn't like innovation and any number of excuses. Any excuse that isn't "we fucked up the numbers."

Gamers are willing to stick their necks out, and then the game companies come through and chop everybody's necks off.

At the risk of becoming a broken record.

 

[EatinOlives]

Please someone tell me this is satire.

It's really fucking rich this comes from Ben Kuchera, who spent months if not upwards of a year during this Ars Technica days on blatant anti-Sony propaganda because of the homebrew scandal (Sony suing the exploiters, etc.), then proceeded to childishly gloat during the entire duration of the PSN hacking debacle. Both times he went on about some "consumer rights" spiel, but dude was bitter as fuck about Sony and he used that as his reasoning.

Now he's applauding a move by Microsoft that is without a doubt magnitudes worse in regards to consumer rights? What the fuck is going on in this industry?

 

[dreamcastmaster]

But Gamestop would never accept that original trade if person 2 wasn't going to buy the used game. Why shouldn't Gamestop benefit? They are the middleman. You just want them to give people free money and throw the discs away?

No, here's the problem. Tomb Raider sold 3.4m units in the space of a month and it's a "failure" because it will fail to recoup its budget.

THREE POINT FOUR MILLION FUCKING UNITS FOR WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY A B-TIER FRANCHISE AND THAT'S STILL NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE ANY MONEY.

And killing used games would have solved this how? Would it have made the execs at Squenix who thought throwing $100m budget at a franchise that's been irrelevant since the turn of the century suddenly get a clue?

Oh, but no, they argue "GAMERS PUSH FOR HIGHER AND HIGHER BUDGETS AND WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT! THEIR ENTITLEMENT COMPLEX CAN'T BE SATIATED! WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO LET BUDGETS SPIRAL OUT OF CONTROL!" and that's lovely, but since when did they ever give a fuck about what we actually thought?

Are Microsoft going to turn around and backtrack on this DRM fiasco because "WE HAVE TO GIVE GAMERS WHAT THEY WANT!"? Are they fuck.

Are EA going to throw all their games up on Steam and patch Sim City to not need the stupid Origin authentication because "THAT'S WHAT THOSE ENTITLED GAMERS ARE SCREAMING FOR!"? Fuck no.

If you couldn't afford to give people what they wanted, then why didn't you just turn around and say no like you do with every other thing we complain about? Here's why; Every publisher big and small decided to get into a dick waving contest and it turns out that not everyone has a big dick. Squenix got its tiny little acorn cock out and went up against Mandingo Activision screaming "LOOK AT MY MASSIVE JUNK! YOU'LL WANT TO CARE FOR IT!" and everyone just turned around and shrugged and bought something else.

Not everyone has a big dick. Acting like you have a big dick when you don't have a big dick is going to make the reveal of your tiny little penis all the more humiliating. And that's what happened here. Squenix acted like Tomb Raider, a franchise that habitually sells less than 3m lifetime per entry was going to suddenly sell COD numbers just because they spent $100m on it and guess what happened? THE FUCKING INEVITABLE.

In terms of the franchise post-Core, the game is going to do really well, probably double what you'd expect from a Tomb Raider game post-PSone but it cost far, far too much.

But no, it's all used games that did this. Used games made Capcom make some horrible design decisions on DmC and piss off the entire fanbase. Used games made Activision and EA flood the market with guitar games and accessories long after people stopped caring. Used games made Microsoft make a fourth Gears of War game that nobody asked for from a developer nobody cares about. Used games made Sony pump out another God of War game after they spent the past few years flooding the market with HD remasters. Used games made Sony make a Smash Bros clone with no appealing characters to help sell it. Used games made Bizarre Creations make James Bond and racing games no-one wanted. Used games make publishers shutter studios the moment the game they were working on goes gold, before they've even had a chance to sell a single new copy, let alone a used one.

I could go on. And on. And on. You could write a book about every single executive level screw-up this gen and yet these same people with their million dollar salaries and their shill puppets still try to insult our intelligence and blame used games and awful, entitled consumers for companies shutting and talented people losing their jobs.

So please forgive our cynicism when we don't want to buy into the bullshit you're spouting.

10/10 (Not sponsored by Doritos)

 

[DrLazy]

Can someone explain to me why the video game industry has just a big problem with used versions of its product.

I never hear the movie industry complaining about used DVD sales. I never hear the music industry complain about used CD sales and I never hear authors or book publishers complain about used book sales. Also you would think authors would despise libraries, but they don't. What's the deal?

You obviously don't follow those markets. They complain a lot and do a lot of things to promote sales of new BluRay or DVDs as opposed to RedBox or others

 

[jay]

Can someone explain to me why the video game industry has just a big problem with used versions of its product.

I never hear the movie industry complaining about used DVD sales. I never hear the music industry complain about used CD sales and I never hear authors or book publishers complain about used book sales. Also you would think authors would despise libraries, but they don't. What's the deal?

Publishers realized that if they prevent used games sales, they will make more and won't have to address the actual ways in which they are failing.

 

[BlastProcessing]

Let's just see if Microsoft goes through with this and what happens if sales don't increase.

They will just blame it on smartphones.

 

[Archaix]

Why do you think budgets are so high? The only way to make money is to sell the games week 1, not slowly build momentum for some low-hype art title. Have you noticed that XBLA, PSN, WiiWare, Steam are the only places where you see mid-tier games anymore? Used-games hurt the industry and the gamer.

Have you noticed that XBLA/PSN games are also incredibly front loaded in sales? Care to blame used games for that too? Try buying an average title on one of those services a month after release and jump into a multiplayer game, let me know how that works out for you.

 

[Jake Tower]

Why do you think budgets are so high? The only way to make money is to sell the games week 1, not slowly build momentum for some low-hype art title. Have you noticed that XBLA, PSN, WiiWare, Steam are the only places where you see mid-tier games anymore? Used-games hurt the industry and the gamer.

Yes, it is a well known fact that Dark Souls sold 2 million copies in the first week.

 

[dreamcastmaster]

Can someone explain to me why the video game industry has just a big problem with used versions of its product.

I never hear the movie industry complaining about used DVD sales. I never hear the music industry complain about used CD sales and I never hear authors or book publishers complain about used book sales. Also you would think authors would despise libraries, but they don't. What's the deal?

Those business models work.

 

[MisterHero]

way to go Burai

But if the problem is publishers being too ambitious, how are we going to get new IPs like Gears of War or Assassins Creed? What if Watch Dogs doesn't meet profit expectations? If gamers are only interested in what they are familiar with (Call of Duty), and not willing to try critically acclaimed titles (Lara Croft) because they are so driven by franchise mindshare (again, CoD), then who is at fault?

Publishers have the capacity to watch and position themselves against competitors. They should use profits to make sure they can sustain any future losses, rather than spending everything they have on marketing one game. Losses are inevitable the way the industry is going the way it is.

It's not the fault of the individual customer, or the audience as a whole, for any of that.

Things like new IPs are the benefits of a thriving company, not an obligation. Old IPs help carry the risk.

As for CoD's popularity, it probably sounds impossible but some devs might be better off NOT competing with them. It's Activision's thing, other devs need to find theirs.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

I don't think there's any other entertainment product you can buy for 60 bucks, so I imagine games being more expensive than movies/dvds maybe makes them more apt for the second hand market?

That's part of it. Another part is that most gamers are unlikely to replay a game, in part due to the time commitment that entails, whereas movies may be watched multiple times.

For people that don't collect games, there's really no benefit to holding onto the game once it has been completed.

 

[Duxxy3]

But if the problem is publishers being too ambitious, how are we going to get new IPs like Gears of War or Assassins Creed? What if Watch Dogs doesn't meet profit expectations? If gamers are only interested in what they are familiar with (Call of Duty), and not willing to try critically acclaimed titles (Lara Croft) because they are so driven by franchise mindshare (CoD "good", Lara Croft "bad"), then who is at fault?

The enormous series that we have today did not start as an enormous series. They built up over time, not just by throwing tens of millions of dollars at it.

 

[King Beyond the wall]

The crash that the video game industry has been heading towards over the last few years seems almost imminent now.

 

[Game Guru]

I don't think there's any other entertainment product you can buy for 60 bucks, so I imagine games being more expensive than movies/dvds maybe makes them more apt for the second hand market?

Yeah, the reason why used games are rampant on consoles is because they have a much higher price than what people would prefer for their games. The used market isn't as big for music, film and television because they are priced at a much lower price point. Even books are generally at a lower price point than a game is.

 

[jay]

Why do you think budgets are so high? The only way to make money is to sell the games week 1, not slowly build momentum for some low-hype art title.

If publishers spent a billion dollars on a game, just think about how front loaded those sales would be. All problems would be solved.

 

[szaromir]

But if the problem is publishers being too ambitious, how are we going to get new IPs like Gears of War or Assassins Creed? What if Watch Dogs doesn't meet profit expectations? If gamers are only interested in what they are familiar with (Call of Duty), and not willing to try critically acclaimed titles (Lara Croft) because they are so driven by franchise mindshare (CoD "good", Lara Croft "bad"), then who is at fault?

Games like Watch Dogs are precisely the problem, a huge money drain for the publisher that tries to distinguish itself by slick movie-like presentation, with no hope of being profitable unless it hits absurdly high numbers for a new, unproven IP. People here are arguing that publishers should try to look for different ways to make their games more appealing outside their usual 'extremely high production values' philosophy.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

Can someone explain to me why the video game industry has just a big problem with used versions of its product.

I never hear the movie industry complaining about used DVD sales. I never hear the music industry complain about used CD sales and I never hear authors or book publishers complain about used book sales. Also you would think authors would despise libraries, but they don't. What's the deal?

Most industries don't have the number one retailer of their product trying to flog you a second hand versions instead.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Can someone explain to me why the video game industry has just a big problem with used versions of its product.

Because publishers are always looking for an excuse for why they didn't make as much money as they think they should've. Instead of looking at why they just sunk another ten million dollars into the development of a game, or why they thought tacking on multiplayer would make people more interested in a game, they blame piracy and used games. So if this actually happens they'll finally get their wish, at least on one platform. What eventually happens is going to be very interesting. My guess is that they're going to end up regretting ever wanting or asking for this to happen.

 

[unbias]

That's part of it. Another part is that most gamers are unlikely to replay a game, in part due to the time commitment that entails, whereas movies may be watched multiple times.

For people that don't collect games, there's really no benefit to holding onto the game once it has been completed.

But do we have any real numbers that show that gaming is more substantial to the 2nd hand market? Or even that it is actual forgone growth? Cause most of the crying about used games sounds exactly like the 8 billion dollar ipod crap.

 

[Unknown One]

Very delusional. Publishers will keep the prices of the games high. You don't see Activision dropping the price of COD much at all. Hope these publishers crash and burn.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

The enormous series that we have today did not start as an enormous series. They built up over time, not just by throwing tens of millions of dollars at it.

way to go Burai


Publishers have the capacity to watch and position themselves against competitors. They should use profits to make sure they can sustain any future losses, rather than spending everything they have on marketing one game. Losses are inevitable the way the industry is going the way it is.

It's not the fault of the individual customer, or the audience as a whole, for any of that.

Things like new IPs are the benefits of a thriving company, not an obligation. Old IPs help carry the risk.

As for CoD's popularity, it probably sounds impossible but some devs might be better off NOT competing with them. It's Activision's thing, other devs need to find theirs.

The problem is the budget, not the ambition.

Lara Croft did really fucking well, better than anybody should have expected it to, and yet it will still make a loss. That's stupid. That's throwing away money. Of course it's used games and piracy and the market doesn't like innovation and any number of excuses. Any excuse that isn't "we fucked up the numbers."

Gamers are willing to stick their necks out, and then the game companies come through and chop everybody's necks off.

At the risk of becoming a broken record.

Study: Average dev costs as high as $28m

Robert Walsh, the CEO of Australian outfit Krome, recently told Develop that game budgets are rising at a frightening pace. “I think that’s one thing that the press, to a certain extent, is forgetting,” said Walsh in an interview. “They’re saying sales have increased over ten percent since last year or whatever; I mean, dev costs have probably doubled or tripled in the console transition.”
​

http://www.develop-online.net/news/33625/Study-Average-dev-cost-as-high-as-28m

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

Those business models work.

I've just got to say: The fact that an industry that brings in 65 billion a year (something tells me this is padded with IOS sales and other such sales... no way this is just console and core game sales) and is expected to sky rocket the next few years can't sustain itself is fuckin' sad. Sorry for the language, but holy hell is that a crock.

 

[WanderingWind]

Remember when Penny Arcade didn't fondle the industry's balls?

 

[Burai]

But if the problem is publishers being too ambitious, how are we going to get new IPs like Gears of War or Assassins Creed? What if Watch Dogs doesn't meet profit expectations? If gamers are only interested in what they are familiar with (Call of Duty), and not willing to try critically acclaimed titles (Lara Croft) because they are so driven by franchise mindshare (CoD "good", Lara Croft "bad"), then who is at fault?

But that's the thing; Publishers aren't being too ambitious. They are doubling down on what they know works but spending more money on making it look a bit prettier and ramming more advertising down our throats, trying to make every game a massive event when it's essentially just a new game with no genuine cultural resonance like you get from a Halo or a CoD. Again, we're back to dick waving.

I want new, exciting game design, but we just aren't getting it on consoles right now because the stakes have been raised so high that developers can't afford to take risks any more. And that's only going to get worse next gen. Do you think that someone is going to take a risk on a $60 unknown quantity if they can't trade it back in if they don't like it?

I don't really understand how you can accuse me of being anti-risk taking when most of those games took so little risk in their design. Band Hero? PlayStation Battle Royale? Really? And those that did like Blur were just so mismanaged and misjudged by the execs at the top.

I'm all for risk taking. What I'm not for is the wasting of money and employees' livelihoods being placed on the line because a mid-tier publisher got ideas above their station or a big publisher whored a franchise to death.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

Study: Average dev costs as high as $28m

Robert Walsh, the CEO of Australian outfit Krome, recently told Develop that game budgets are rising at a frightening pace. “I think that’s one thing that the press, to a certain extent, is forgetting,” said Walsh in an interview. “They’re saying sales have increased over ten percent since last year or whatever; I mean, dev costs have probably doubled or tripled in the console transition.”
​

http://www.develop-online.net/news/33625/Study-Average-dev-cost-as-high-as-28m

That proves our point. Those average budgets are pretty high. Maybe if there was some variance we might have some room in the market on our hands, but everybody wants to fill the same "it's not even AAA anymore, it's AAAAA!" pocket of success. That's reflected in the very high average budget which you quoted there.

 

[Arkos]

Lol retracted

 

[UraMallas]

Study: Average dev costs as high as $28m

Robert Walsh, the CEO of Australian outfit Krome, recently told Develop that game budgets are rising at a frightening pace. “I think that’s one thing that the press, to a certain extent, is forgetting,” said Walsh in an interview. “They’re saying sales have increased over ten percent since last year or whatever; I mean, dev costs have probably doubled or tripled in the console transition.”
​

http://www.develop-online.net/news/33625/Study-Average-dev-cost-as-high-as-28m

This is exactly what is being said. That is the exact point.

 

[FrostuTheNinja]

Remember when Penny Arcade didn't fondle the industry's balls?

That was like, 13 years ago.

Damn, I'm old. D:

 

[Boss Man]

and as profit margins rise it's possible we'll see prices drop.

I can't even find a .gif that is ridiculous enough

 

[TheContact]

Remember when Penny Arcade didn't fondle the industry's balls?

I couldn't believe PA wrote this article, I clicked on it expecting PA to be something else

 

[scitek]

Can someone explain to me why the video game industry has just a big problem with used versions of its product.

I never hear the movie industry complaining about used DVD sales. I never hear the music industry complain about used CD sales and I never hear authors or book publishers complain about used book sales. Also you would think authors would despise libraries, but they don't. What's the deal?

I think it's publishers unwilling to admit they've made mistakes and instead trying to blame their fiscal losses on the used market, effectively likening it to piracy. If the used market is killed off and their problems continue, there's no telling what they'll try next.

 

[aeolist]

so

i honestly don't believe kuchera is a genuinely evil sellout. i think he thinks he is speaking hard truths here.

this means he is a person who has spent most of his adult life interfacing with game publishers yet sincerely believes that if they start seeing higher profit margins there is a good chance they will take that extra money and do things like lower prices or keep studios intact after poor sales of their games.

now normally i would take this and conclude that the person in question is simply a blithering idiot, but kuchera, in the very act of writing this comedy goldmine of an article has demonstrated that he is able to receive information from the outside world, process it, and output a syntactically coherent string of sentences that communicate his mental state, so i don't think he is quite as stupid as would be necessary to actually believe all this

quite a conundrum

 

[Yagharek]

so

i honestly don't believe kuchera is a genuinely evil sellout. i think he thinks he is speaking hard truths here.

this means he is a person who has spent most of his adult life interfacing with game publishers yet sincerely believes that if they start seeing higher profit margins there is a good chance they will take that extra money and do things like lower prices or keep studios intact after poor sales of their games.

now normally i would take this and conclude that the person in question is simply a blithering idiot, but kuchera, in the very act of writing this comedy goldmine of an article has demonstrated that he is able to receive information from the outside world, process it, and output a syntactically coherent string of sentences that communicate his mental state, so i don't think he is quite as stupid as would be necessary to actually believe all this

quite a conundrum

Occams Razor tells me he is a sellout

 

[Delusibeta]

so

i honestly don't believe kuchera is a genuinely evil sellout. i think he thinks he is speaking hard truths here.

this means he is a person who has spent most of his adult life interfacing with game publishers yet sincerely believes that if they start seeing higher profit margins there is a good chance they will take that extra money and do things like lower prices or keep studios intact after poor sales of their games.

now normally i would take this and conclude that the person in question is simply a blithering idiot, but kuchera, in the very act of writing this comedy goldmine of an article has demonstrated that he is able to receive information from the outside world, process it, and output a syntactically coherent string of sentences that communicate his mental state, so i don't think he is quite as stupid as would be necessary to actually believe all this

quite a conundrum

Or alternatively he's on Microsoft's payroll, which makes much more sense.

 

[Replicant]

The current economics of the industry are a creation of the industry. You can't just run your business into the ground and then claim that the only solution is to take away consumer rights. It's insane.

Quoted for Truth. Anyone advocating for taking away consumers' right is automatically on my shit list.

 

[Pyronite]

Ahh, a whole bunch of ad hominems against the author, mixed in many less reasonable counter-arguments.

It's like a religious thing - start from the standpoint that used games are good for the market, or that studios kill themselves, and refuse to accept anything to the contrary.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

Ahh, a whole bunch of ad hominems against the author, mixed in many less reasonable counter-arguments.

It's like a religious thing - start from the standpoint that used games are good for the market, or that studios kill themselves, and refuse to accept anything to the contrary.

Instead of sitting in the corner looking at us with a smug look on your face, why don't you try quoting some of these less reasonable counter-arguments and putting them to bed?

You can start with my posts, I can take it.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

No used games would kill the video game industry.

Unless new games are like $20 which will never happen.

 

[Yagharek]

Ahh, a whole bunch of ad hominems against the author, mixed in many less reasonable counter-arguments.

It's like a religious thing - start from the standpoint that used games are good for the market, or that studios kill themselves, and refuse to accept anything to the contrary.

And yet you ignore the post quoted several times this page. Convenient.

 

[Ponn]

Why do you think budgets are so high? The only way to make money is to sell the games week 1, not slowly build momentum for some low-hype art title. Have you noticed that XBLA, PSN, WiiWare, Steam are the only places where you see mid-tier games anymore? Used-games hurt the industry and the gamer.

People dont buy full price after the first week because the industry has them trained to wait for the quick price drops and goty editions.

 

[Pyronite]

And yet you ignore the post quoted several times this page. Convenient.

Dude, its primary argument hinged on one example of a game where the parent company expected much higher sales based on their internal tracking - that post is being passed around as 10/10 because of confirmation bias on the part of the posters and outrage on the part of the quoted. And because he threw in the term "entitled gamers" and made the entire post a straw man of "it's all because of used games".

It's not executives that used games hurt, it's normal people who love games and spend their time making them.

Most importantly, it didn't address one thing I read in the original article.

 

[JDSN]

Remember when Penny Arcade didn't fondle the industry's balls?

They are part of the game now, they have to walk the line.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

Dude, it cherry picked one example of a game, where the parent company expected much higher sales based on their internal tracking - that post is being passed around as 10/10 because of confirmation bias on the part of the posters and outrage on the part of the quoted. And because he threw in the term "entitled gamers" and a couple more straw men lumped under the umbrella "it's all because of used games".

Ah, you didn't even read the entire post, where there's a string of other pertinent examples.

Carry on being smug in the corner, we'd rather you stayed there.

 

[GraveRobberX]

How the hell has second hand sales killed studios?

Is it second hand sales fault, that publishers throw money at devs and ask them to create games to attach onto the game of the generation, COD for this gen
Put in such weird earmarks/milestones in contracts from the get go, if it isn't a breakout hit, most don't earn the extra bonuses they are promised
How about focus test ad nauseum just so they can grab all markets rather work towards a core/casual crowd and work outwards from the center rather than outside and try to reach the core in the center
How about those pubs that create fly by devs, get them to create stuff, no long stay plan, just a quick fast boost to the bottom line and close up shop
Placing titles at such archaic release dates, that you already force the devs to know what their outlook is (Bloodstone, releases 1 week before COD... by the damn same publisher, bye Bizarre Creations)

Yes second hand sales really fucked the industry, an Industry 30+ years old that was in sync with it, but recently somehow is the antagonist, that is blamed for low sales, ballooned budgets, devs close up shops, executives getting sacked, plethora of other fucked up thinking publishers fault to the consumers, sometime looking into a mirror would help them out, but why place blame on oneself and their stockholders, blame everything else

 

[WanderingWind]

I couldn't believe PA wrote this article, I clicked on it expecting PA to be something else

Me either. We're rapidly running out of people who are on the side of the consumer in this industry. Payola, special access and the fact that everybody eventually just wants to work in the industry is basically fucking us pretty good.

Quoted for Truth. Anyone advocating for taking away consumers' right is automatically on my shit list.

Yup.

Ahh, a whole bunch of ad hominems against the author, mixed in many less reasonable counter-arguments.

It's like a religious thing - start from the standpoint that used games are good for the market, or that studios kill themselves, and refuse to accept anything to the contrary.

It's not ad hominem if you're not trying to debunk him based on how you view him as a person. You can be a shill without that having to be the sole reason for people to be against what you're saying. I'm confortable with people working for the industry, publicly or otherwise. That doesn't make their poor opinions any less poor.

 

[Pyronite]

Ah, you didn't even read the entire post, where there's a string of other pertinent examples.

Carry on being smug in the corner, we'd rather you stayed there.

They were equally lame examples couched in emotion. His entire post ignores reality - reality like the CEO behind the Tomb Raider sales predictions resigning due to his performance. Not blaming used games and carrying on.