Ah okay, gotcha' . So it could be for any situation, including potentially a future PS5, etc.
Yeah
Ah okay, gotcha' . So it could be for any situation, including potentially a future PS5, etc.
Who knows, maybe it's a modified Puma, like the semi-custom Radeon 7850.PS4 Pro can't have Puma CPU because Puma doesn't support HSA
Who knows, maybe it's a modified Puma, like the semi-custom Radeon 7850.
Pretty sure Jaguar or any Jaguar related evolution does not have a loop predictor or especially the u-ops cache (Ryzen features).
Its certainly intriguing to see them actively exploring the space. Whether they actually follow through with compatibility or just lay a patent minefield for a competitor is less clear.
Its certainly intriguing to see them actively exploring the space. Whether they actually follow through with compatibility or just lay a patent minefield for a competitor is less clear.
TSMC Updates its Silicon Menu
First 7-nm chips, EUV migration described
SANTA CLARA, Calif. — TSMC reported progress in 7 nm and extreme ultraviolet (EUV) lithography and bolstered a planar process that competes with fully depleted silicon-on-insulator at an annual event here. It also gave updates on its work in packaging and platforms for key market segments.
TSMC sketched out what it called a relatively simple process of porting design rules and IP to an N7+ process using EUV that it could put into production in 2019. The process can deliver 20% greater density, 8–10% higher speeds, or 15–20% less power than its current N7 node. Compared to its 16FFC process, N7+ can enable 30% higher speed or 50% less power on an ARM A72 core, said Cliff Hou, vice president of R&D for design technology at TSMC.
The foundry will provide a utility to port immersion design rules to the EUV process that will ”clean up most of the layout differences," said Hou. Overall, the work of moving from N7 to N7+ should represent about a third of the effort of migrating to a new node, he added.
In packaging, TSMC said that it is working on a new variant of InFO, its wafer-level fab-out technique famously used in Apple's latest A Series processors. InFO-MS will integrate logic and memory and is first being targeted for use with the latest high bandwidth memory (HBM2) in efforts among TSMC, Samsung, and SK Hynix.
Separately, Open-Silicon announced Tuesday that it has validated for use in system-in-package designs its HBM2 IP subsystem made using TSMC's 16-nm process and its CoWoS 2.5-D chip stacking technology. It supports data rates up to 2 Gbits/second per pin. The company expects that a 7-nm version will hit 2.4 Gbits/s.
”Probably no company in the world has done as much to take us into 3D chip stacks as TSMC," said Wally Rhines, chief executive for Mentor Graphics, which provides verification software for some of the foundry's stacks.
http://gamingbolt.com/ps5-will-like...-will-possibly-launch-in-2019-michael-pachter
I don't know if Pachter is getting wiser or I'm getting dumber but I agree with him.
I can see the PS5 do a minor jump to reach 4K as a standard but most effort be pushed towards CPU to improve performance for PSVR(2).
Half close if old.
MS will have an issue competing with PS5, regardless of hardware, unless they do something about their first party exclusives portfolio.
Will be interesting, most likely scenario for now is Sony getting at least a one year head start, which on the other hand gives MS the opportunity to come up with a more powerful one which they could (and most likely will) announce before PS5 launches.
MS will have an issue competing with PS5, regardless of hardware, unless they do something about their first party exclusives portfolio.
If PS5 releases in 2019 and plays out similar to PS4 thats likely too soon for a NextBox announcement.
It would also likely destroy the X's 3rd holiday season.
Will be interesting, most likely scenario for now is Sony getting at least a one year head start, which on the other hand gives MS the opportunity to come up with a more powerful one which they could (and most likely will) announce before PS5 launches.
If PS5 releases in 2019 and plays out similar to PS4 thats likely too soon for a NextBox announcement.
It would also likely destroy the X's 3rd holiday season.
I predict greedy MS will double down on power, but they'll market their machine as more premium and charge too much for it.
I predict arrogant Sony will deliver hardware that is both weaker and cheaper than the Xbox but delivers no better value for money. They'll focus on exclusives but those will take a while to come through.
And PS4/XB1 proves that launching the same year and having lower specs than your competitor can also be a recipe for disaster.
That's why a new paradigm of releasing mid-generation upgrades might be a good solution for all parties, because it allows them to keep leapfrogging one another, to the point where worrying about which system has the better specs becomes less of a sticking point, and the focus shifts instead to software and services. The most important element moving forward under this new model is continuity - if there's no cohesion between hardware iterations then you're seriously at risk of losing mindshare.
It won't matter. A new Xbox releasing 1 year after PlayStation 5 would not have nearly the same power advantage as the Xbox One X currently has over the Pro.
It won't matter. A new Xbox releasing 1 year after PlayStation 5 would not have nearly the same power advantage as the Xbox One X currently has over the Pro.
There's no real reason to believe that both MS and Sony won't be pushing hard to release in the same year; i.e. as soon as the relevant manufacturing technology (7nm) is ready and mature enough.
PS3 proves that launching a full next-gen console a year late is an unmitigated disaster. By allowing your direct competitor a full year uncontested in the marketplace you give up a 10-16m unit head-start in console sales, a full year head-start in entrenching consumer mindshare as well as a full year head-start of next-gen game releases, which all become effective defacto exclusives because there is not competitor box available to play on.
Once you're competitor is already 10-16m units entrenched in the marketplace, the battle for the gen is pretty much already over.
Even a PS5 launch in 2019 would significantly impact XB1X's 3rd holiday season (as well as PS4/Pro and XB1 sales). At that point, what's the point of buying an expensive mid-gen upgrade to a last-gen console at a $100 over a regular XB1, when you can buy a PS5 that is the new hotness that every gamer, developer and media outfit will be focused on.
The only way I see MS or Sony pushing out a box that is significantly stronger than their competitor this next cycle, is if one wins the lottery by signing with Intel or Nvidia for their CPU or GPU.
With both using AMD, it's likely that their APUs will be extremely similar, with the main differences potentially comprising memory sub-system design (Sony may go with HBCC and a lump of GPU accessible flash memory, but with a smaller GDDRx5/6 based RAM pool, whereas MS might go with a bigger GDDR6 RAM pool or even go HBM).
With both trying to avoid giving the other a full year head-start, both using the same IHV for their APU design, both using the same manufacturing process and both shooting to hit a holiday season launch in either 2019/2020 (dependent on 7nm maturity/availability), there's little reason to believe we'll see a similar 40-50% gulf in performance between next-gen consoles that we saw this gen.. (i.e. MS isn't trying to shoehorn a Kinect equivalent into their console APU design this time).
Since Xbox One X GPU is about 4.5 times more powerful than Xbox One GPU, I can't see Microsoft making a future Xbox with a GPU that isn't at least the same difference in power from XB1X GPU as XB1X's is from that of original Xbox One, even if that means not launching the next Xbox until fall 2021 (4 years, again). Microsoft could then certainly make use of the better density and performance of 7nm+
I think Sony will go for around 3X the GPU performance of XB1X and not launch PS5 before fall 2020.
Since Xbox One X GPU is about 4.5 times more powerful than Xbox One GPU, I can't see Microsoft making a future Xbox with a GPU that isn't at least the same difference in power from XB1X GPU as XB1X's is from that of original Xbox One, even if that means not launching the next Xbox until fall 2021 (4 years, again). Microsoft could then certainly make use of the better density and performance of 7nm+
I think Sony will go for around 3X the GPU performance of XB1X and not launch PS5 before fall 2020.
Since Xbox One X GPU is about 4.5 times more powerful than Xbox One GPU, I can't see Microsoft making a future Xbox with a GPU that isn't at least the same difference in power from XB1X GPU as XB1X's is from that of original Xbox One, even if that means not launching the next Xbox until fall 2021 (4 years, again). Microsoft could then certainly make use of the better density and performance of 7nm+
I think Sony will go for around 3X the GPU performance of XB1X and not launch PS5 before fall 2020.
Just saw the DF review and Vega 64 really is a massive failure. How can a 47 percent increase in core clocks and a 40 percent increase in transistors over fury x only result in a 25 percent uplift in performance in most games? Given how inefficient their architecture is, one gets very worried about the next gen consoles and their performance leap over current gen. PS5 and Xbox two will most likely use the follow up to RX480 on a 7nm process (navi) which should result in largely the same flops and performance as vega 56 or vega 64, not very impressive considering what we could expect from next gen GTX 1160 or 1260 (volta or beyond). I really hope AMD switch architecture before Navi. Otherwise, AMD's law of diminishing returns will destroy PS5 performance.
Yeah considering it's even supposed to have tiling support it is a bit of a letdown. Something around GTX 1080 level isn't enough of an upgrade over PS4 Pro.
If they're launching in 2019, they'll announce in 2019. It's always in the same year. Any earlier would be daft.
I think next time around Xbox will have the advantage of a generation-less user base so they can make the hardware & not worry too much about what software is going to sell that hardware because it's all going to be Xbox One & UWP software . But Sony will have the advantage of being able to come with something new while Xbox will most likely stay on the same path.
Ugh, hopefully they delay as much as possible. PS5 ending up with just GTX 1070-level performance with Vega 56 isn't much of an upgrade over the RX 470-level Pro.Some of you guys really have unreasonable expectations. A GTX 1080 is more than 2.5 times as strong as a Pro. You might not even get something on par with a 1080.
AMD hasn't been able to scale down a Fury X to a console tier GPU in 2.5 years. What makes you think they'll be able to scale down a VEGA 64, which uses even more power than a Fury X btw, in 2.5 years. Technology is slowing down, not speeding up.
Remember PS4 Pro wasn't suppose to be able to play any 4K games according to NeoGaf.
Point us to people who said that in masses. You always have some doubters but this was never general consensus. People like me even argued for native 4k games running on PS4 amateur and Xbox One.
These generalizations don't help at all in any discussion.
Unmitigated disaster when PS3 still ended up beating the Xbox 360?
I don't really want this to turn into a sales thread but as it's come up...
First mover advantage in sales isn't a given. While Sony lost considerable market share reS2 in the move to 7th gen, globally it outpaced 360 sales for almost the duration of the generation and according to Adam Boyes finished ahead of the 360.
MS' issue isn't power, or features or price. Its problem is that it's image has regressed to being 'USA-box'. X1X won't address this, and unless Sony fuck PS5 up so egregiously that even the people who stayed loyal for gen 7 give it up at best MS can hope for is to get back to where they were with the 360.
Anyway...tech speculation is a lot more fun...
They won't delay a launch for a minor node shrink, they didn't with PS4 and I don't think they will with PS5 either.
If it's available after the console has launched they'll use it for a slim model or whatever (PS5 Pro?).
if sony goes full force into "next generation", MS will be forced to respond. MS doesnt want to be the only one holding their machines back after all when that's how you get eyes on your shiny new machine
IE, i think a lot of MS's "we're done with generations" talk is hot air drummed up to get people talking about their iterative unit they have going on sale
Just saw the DF review and Vega 64 really is a massive failure. How can a 47 percent increase in core clocks and a 40 percent increase in transistors over fury x only result in a 25 percent uplift in performance in most games? Given how inefficient their architecture is, one gets very worried about the next gen consoles and their performance leap over current gen. PS5 and Xbox two will most likely use the follow up to RX480 on a 7nm process (navi) which should result in largely the same flops and performance as vega 56 or vega 64, not very impressive considering what we could expect from next gen GTX 1160 or 1260 (volta or beyond). I really hope AMD switch architecture before Navi. Otherwise, AMD's law of diminishing returns will destroy PS5 performance.
Until Sony managed to put out the slim PS3 it was a complete disaster. Sony did an excellent job of pulling it back in the end, but initially, PS3 was a mess.
There's first mover advantage, and there's giving your direct competitor a full year alone in the marketplace uncontested. Regardless of the latter success of the PS3 (owed to Sony's efforts in price reduction of the PS3 as well as their wider reach in international markets - i.e. a luxury MS cannot boast), Sony still learned a valuable lesson about giving your competitor too much time alone in the market.
It's not about who goes first, so much as how much time they have in the market to generate a lead and soak up mindshare.