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[michaelius]

Another country where the biggest mass attacks and crime was done by native citizens bans immigrants to prevent nothing but ensure more human suffering.



But the evidence is pretty clear, most all terrorism is done by native citizens of any particular country.

What attacks?

There was like 4 attacks in last 130 years in Poland that can even be considered as terrorism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Terrorism_in_Poland

With 3 of them happening around WW1 and 1 being atributed to german agents before WW2

To put it bluntly, the EU pays Poland money, gets racism in return. Kinda needs more than that.

To put it bluntly noone is giving anything for free.

When you receive EU funds they never cover 100% of investment you need to put your own money too. Since it's given to poorer countries then those money need to be borrowed and who has money ? Western European banks mostly French and German.

Then someone has to actually build those things which results in public tenders open to companies from whole Europe

To actually build something you need tools, machines, etc. Yep those are comming mostly from rest of Europe too.


Not to mention we had to surrended a lot of food production capabilities we had before joining EU to stay in allowed limits.

 

[M°°nblade]

The attackers were revealed to have been born in Belgium.. yet there are still leaders blaming refugees for the attack...

They don't blame the refugees. They blame the lacking migration policy which allows both refugees and terrorists to enter Europe uncontrolled and without any identification.

 

[PdotMichael]

They don't blame the refugees. They blame the lacking migration policy which allows both refugees and terrorists to enter Europe uncontrolled and without any identification.

Well, I guess birth control is very important.

 

[Alex Stroud]

By Poland not accepting refugees. That's exactly what they want. Creating a world where it's muslims vs the rest.

The greatest pain/setback we've inflicted terrorists was Merkel's saying the refugees (mostly muslims) are welcome here.

Is Merkel now the chancellor of Opposite Land?

 

[chugen]

Stick to facts, please.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...sex-attack-on-new-years-eve-are-a6874201.html

the fact that only 3 suspects were German citizens?

 

[M°°nblade]

Stick to facts, please.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...sex-attack-on-new-years-eve-are-a6874201.html

What's your point? That North-African refugees/immigrants don't count?

Well, I guess birth control is very important.

Birth control isn't. Proper integration and tracking/keeping out known terrorists are.

 

[PdotMichael]

What's your point? That North-African refugees don't count?


Birth control isn't. Proper integration and tracking/keeping out known terrorists are.

Why would terrorists go through the routes which include long identity checks and ends with getting registered?

 

[Henkka]

Stick to facts, please.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...sex-attack-on-new-years-eve-are-a6874201.html

So according to your facts, all the perpetrators were still immigrants from that general part of the world. I don't see how that benefits your argument.

"They weren't Syrian, they were from Morocco, Tunisia and Algeria!"

So are you saying that if there was a massive civil war in those countries, Europe could refuse refugees based on what happened in Cologne? I don't think that's what you want to be saying, at least.

Look, I think refusing to take a measly 7000 refugees is pretty weak. That amount of people could be quite easily integrated. But the multiculturalism experiment in Europe is an utter failure, and even Merkel has said that. I can't really blame Poland for not wanting it.

 

[JimmyRustler]

In the minds of anti-immigrant people you never stop being an immigrant as long as you're of a "non-European" ethnicity. You could have had family in the country for over 150 years and you'd still have these people fret about fifth generation integration.

And let me pre-emptively point out that this is not aimed at anyone in this thread but at far-right politicians like the Polish government.

From my experience actually many, many immigrants don't see themselves as local people in the EU country they live. See, for instance, I'm born in Croatia and both of my parents are Croatians. By now I have an Austrian passport. When someone asks me what I am, then I say I'm Austrian. I feel myself as Austrian because I have adopted the local values.

That said, I have rarely seen other local immigrants (especially when they are of Muslim origin) who would consider them as local - EVEN the ones that have been born here and have the paperwork. Now THAT is fucking sad.

I actually had a discussion about this in my gym with some immigrants a couple of weeks back. They were like "Well, you're parents are Croatians, so that's what you are as well." and I'm like "No." and all those guys give me a Bertstare.

This is very much a problem IMO.

 

[M°°nblade]

Why would terrorists go through the routes which include long identity checks and ends with getting registered?

They wouldn't. They would have to find other routes to enter Europe instead of blending in with the refugee streams.

 

[nib95]

What's your point? That North-African refugees don't count?

Birth control isn't. Proper integration and tracking/keeping out known terrorists are.

Well not really, because we're talking about the humanitarian crisis mostly surrounding specifically Syria and Iraq, or taking in those from places most severely affected by ISIS or the current Middle Eastern turmoil. Last I checked, Morocco, Tunisia etc aren't war torn, so refugees from those countries are not the priority except in extreme circumstances. I don't know what portion of those 7000 refugees Poland refers to are from the conflict areas, but presumably it's the vast majority. Or at least it should be.

 

[M°°nblade]

Well not really, because we're talking about the humanitarian crisis mostly surrounding specifically Syria and Iraq, or taking in those from places most severely affected by ISIS or the current Middle Eastern turmoil. Last I checked, Morocco, Tunisia etc aren't war torn, so refugees from those countries are not the priority except in extreme circumstances. I don't know what portion of those 7000 refugees Poland refers to are from the conflict areas, but presumably it's the vast majority. Or at least it should be.

Agreed. Economic refugees shoudn't get the same priority as war refugees from Syria and Iraq, yet they arrive together using the same smuggler routes. This is why an identification&registration proces, idealy before entering Europe, is important.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Agreed. Economic refugees shoudn't get the same priority as war refugees from Syria and Iraq, yet they arrive together using the same smuggler routes. This is why an identification&registration proces, idealy before entering Europe, is important.

This is being solved now by sending people from Greece back and then taking in refugees from the camps in Turkey.

Next up would be closing the route into Italy which will probably grow again now that the Balkan route is basically closed off.

 

[D4Danger]

By Poland not accepting refugees. That's exactly what they want. Creating a world where it's muslims vs the rest.

The greatest pain/setback we've inflicted terrorists was Merkel's saying the refugees (mostly muslims) are welcome here.

you're not going to win any support with the "this is what the terrorists want" stuff.

everyone is welcome in the EU but that doesn't mean we have to have open borders. the two things aren't mutually exclusive

 

[Nivash]

From my experience actually many, many immigrants don't see themselves as local people in the EU country they live. See, for instance, I'm born in Croatia and both of my parents are Croatians. By now I have an Austrian passport. When someone asks me what I am, then I say I'm Austrian. I feel myself as Austrian because I have adopted the local values.

That said, I have rarely seen other local immigrants (especially when they are of Muslim origin) who would consider them as local - EVEN the ones that have been born here and have the paperwork. Now THAT is fucking sad.

I actually had a discussion about this in my gym with some immigrants a couple of weeks back. They were like "Well, you're parents are Croatians, so that's what you are as well." and I'm like "No." and all those guys give me a Bertstare.

This is very much a problem IMO.

It's a two way street to be sure. I think there's an issue in Europe with both natives and immigrants that ethnicity and nationality get conflated. Which extends to immigrants too. Over time, we need to strike a balance where people feel that it's easier to identify with their nation without them feeling they have to cut ties to their roots.

 

[Christopher]

Not taking refugees in is not letting the "terrorists win". Victory in ISIS's mind is killing/subjigating infidels and setting up a caliphate, not influencing immigration policy.

It seems that's such a catch all "Let the terrorist win" "it's what Isis wants!!"

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

"Our strategy is to ignore the problem and attack anyone who proposes actual solutions."

Great.

 

[massoluk]

So the terrorists won?

=(

 

[kingkaiser]

Agreed. Economic refugees shoudn't get the same priority as war refugees from Syria and Iraq, yet they arrive together using the same smuggler routes. This is why an identification&registration proces, idealy before entering Europe, is important.

Dear refugee, please sign on the reason for your temporary stay:

- Fleeing from war, need asylum
- Wanna get rich muthafucka
- All nonbeliever should burn

Yeah...

 

[Bonfires Down]

I was expecting a thread full of people shouting 'racist', but it's actually been a fairly sensible discussion. Good job GAF.

 

[TCRS]

their good right.

 

[Lead]

Oh hey!

So, when do you stop becoming an "immigrant" or part of an "immigrant" family exactly?

Do only certain races have that privilege?

No but ignoring their cultural heritage to Islam is just burying your head in the sand.

Look at all of these Islamic terror that have happened in Europe and abroad over the past 20 years. Who are these people? Most if not all are just not ethnic Europeans.

I don't personally think it's reasonable to close your borders entirely, as I do think some people are in dire need of refugee. With that said, it's easy to see where the Polish government is coming from with these policies.

 

[xenist]

What the fuck do refugees have to do with Brussels? It seems the Polish government was just looking for an excuse. Or it may just be that they're bigger cowards than I thought.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Oh hey!

So, when do you stop becoming an "immigrant" or part of an "immigrant" family exactly?

Do only certain races have that privilege?

It's different for different people. I'd say second generation for some, third generation for others.

There's no point trying to hide or ignore the immigrant component by using terms like "homegrown". A failed immigration policy from thirty years ago doesn't cease to be a failed immigration policy because it's the kids of immigrants carrying out attacks rather than the immigrants themselves.

 

[kingkaiser]

What the fuck do refugees have to do with Brussels? It seems the Polish government was just looking for an excuse. Or it may just be that they're bigger cowards than I thought.

Jarosław Kaczyński always was a coward also known as a conservative nationalist, after his brother died in this plane crash he went full mentally instable though.

His party currently in power after all, is the one trying to overthrow the polish supreme court and bring "unpleasant" media "into line".

 

[Khasim]

To most of us Poles, it doesn't matter if the immigrants are from Syria, Iraq, or Saudi Arabia. What matters is that they are Muslims. In the eyes of the general populace in Poland, Muslims from the Middle East = terrorists, uncultured goat-fuckers etc. I don't even think most of us know that we have had native Muslims in Poland for hundreds of years (the Tatars).

This is what happens when the most power in the country lies with people raised in socialist Poland with brainwashed 'Catholic' values. Polish Catholic fanatics are only better than the Muslim fanatics in that they don't blow themselves up. They have the same line of thinking (they're the REAL Christians, other religions are enemies etc).

Our culture is, however, slowly evolving and adapting to the modern age. I'm born in '92 and most people at/around my age realise how fucked up the society is, when politicians are seriously considering making religion ('religion' as a subject in Polish schools means 'Catholicism', of course,not 'theology') part of our maturity exams, where the separation of church and state exists only on paper, and other things like that.

Once the generation of people raised before democracy was introduced in Poland dies out, then we may actually start growing. It's slowly happening. People are slowly realising that the two most popular political parties are not the only choices. However, the Poles got so fed up with the previous governments shenanigans that they elected their natural enemy, who in the past had different opinions on pretty much everything, but they were more or less tolerable. Nobody expected that they will start pulling shit like this.

GAF, please remember - young (~30 and younger) Poles who barely remember socialism are mostly very nice, open-minded and tolerant people. Problem is, it's the older ones who are in power, because the older ones are the majority of voters. It will change, but it will take at least 10 more years.

What happens before that, however, scares me to the point I'm thinking about emigrating to Canada.

 

[Jumeira]

No but ignoring their cultural heritage to Islam is just burying your head in the sand.

Look at all of these Islamic terror that have happened in Europe and abroad over the past 20 years. Who are these people? Most if not all are just not ethnic Europeans.

I don't personally think it's reasonable to close your borders entirely, as I do think some people are in dire need of refugee. With that said, it's easy to see where the Polish government is coming from with these policies.

Most terror in UK is from ethnic Europeans. Genocides in Bosnia are from ethnic Europeans.
You mentioned 20 years, what were Muslims doing over the past 1000 years in Europe? Getting by. Why not question what contemporary changes have taken place to see this sudden (and i purposely used sudden ) change for a small amount of Muslims. There are millions of europeam muslims getting on fine still, but it seems your burying your head and ignoring that fact. Nice use of slippery slope though.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Dear refugee, please sign on the reason for your temporary stay:

- Fleeing from war, need asylum
- Wanna get rich muthafucka
- All nonbeliever should burn

Yeah...

Its pretty clear that people coming to Europe from for example Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria, Pakistan are not fleeing from a war, or if they are in an unsafe region have places in their own country to go to. So those should be identified as soon as possible, so they can be rejected.

 

[TheRealTalker]

Oh please they weren't going to let them in anyway. Nice try Poland.

 

[CassSept]

To most of us Poles, it doesn't matter if the immigrants are from Syria, Iraq, or Saudi Arabia. What matters is that they are Muslims. In the eyes of the general populace in Poland, Muslims from the Middle East = terrorists, uncultured goat-fuckers etc. I don't even think most of us know that we have had native Muslims in Poland for hundreds of years (the Tatars).

This is what happens when the most power in the country lies with people raised in socialist Poland with brainwashed 'Catholic' values. Polish Catholic fanatics are only better than the Muslim fanatics in that they don't blow themselves up. They have the same line of thinking (they're the REAL Christians, other religions are enemies etc).

Our culture is, however, slowly evolving and adapting to the modern age. I'm born in '92 and most people at/around my age realise how fucked up the society is, when politicians are seriously considering making religion ('religion' as a subject in Polish schools means 'Catholicism', of course,not 'theology') part of our maturity exams, where the separation of church and state exists only on paper, and other things like that.

Once the generation of people raised before democracy was introduced in Poland dies out, then we may actually start growing. It's slowly happening. People are slowly realising that the two most popular political parties are not the only choices. However, the Poles got so fed up with the previous governments shenanigans that they elected their natural enemy, who in the past had different opinions on pretty much everything, but they were more or less tolerable. Nobody expected that they will start pulling shit like this.

GAF, please remember - young (~30 and younger) Poles who barely remember socialism are mostly very nice, open-minded and tolerant people. Problem is, it's the older ones who are in power, because the older ones are the majority of voters. It will change, but it will take at least 10 more years.

What happens before that, however, scares me to the point I'm thinking about emigrating to Canada.

I'd have agreed with you on that... a few years back. I'm afraid that, like in the entire Europe, that trend had been for youth to radicalize towards far right parties. You can see it really well in the results of the recent election - 30-somethings voted mostly for Civic Platform, while Law and Justice and other more socially conservative parties (Kukiz '15 which is an unfocused anti-estabilishment mess of a 'movement') was favored by 20-29 cohort.

I was born in 1991 and the prevalence of conservatism among high school and college youth is palpable. Mind you it might be anecdotal evidence, as they tend to be far louder and more outspoken. It's fine as long as they're more centrist, open to discussion and accepting of others' opinion. However, even among people with higher education I've recently noticed a disturbing amount of hate speech and more radical ideas being spread around. It only gets worse as we move more towards groups with lower degree of education.

A lot of these will flip-flop, thankfully. Many of these young adults grew up during Civic Platform's rule so they naturally developed to be predisposed towards Law and Justice as the main minority force in the Parliament (as Poland is a relatively young democracy you can see very well how fickle the general electorate can be in the years leading to Civic Platform's first win in 2007). Some are already seeing what a mess the governing party is, some will still need years, but the consistent level of approval towards their actions in the polls is... troubling, really. Shows how much you can easily buy votes with some absolutely ill-advised welfare programs.

Still, their popularity will falter and the next big thing will take Law and Justice's place. However, with how conservatism came back in the big way before more liberal ideals took root in, I think it will take far longer for the country to move on than we could have expected just a few years back.

 

[Khasim]

I'd have agreed with you on that... a few years back. I'm afraid that, like in the entire Europe, that trend had been for youth to radicalize towards far right parties. You can see it really well in the results of the recent election - 30-somethings voted mostly for Civic Platform, while Law and Justice and other more socially conservative parties (Kukiz '15 which is an unfocused anti-estabilishment mess of a 'movement') was favored by 20-29 cohort.

I was born in 1991 and the prevalence of conservatism among high school and college youth is palpable. Mind you it might be anecdotal evidence, as they tend to be far louder and more outspoken. It's fine as long as they're more centrist, open to discussion and accepting of others' opinion. However, even among people with higher education I've recently noticed a disturbing amount of hate speech and more radical ideas being spread around. It only gets worse as we move more towards groups with lower degree of education.

A lot of these will flip-flop, thankfully. Many of these young adults grew up during Civic Platform's rule so they naturally developed to be predisposed towards Law and Justice as the main minority force in the Parliament (as Poland is a relatively young democracy you can see very well how fickle the general electorate can be in the years leading to Civic Platform's first win in 2007). Some are already seeing what a mess the governing party is, some will still need years, but the consistent level of approval towards their actions in the polls is... troubling, really. Shows how much you can easily buy votes with some absolutely ill-advised welfare programs.

Still, their popularity will falter and the next big thing will take Law and Justice's place. However, with how conservatism came back in the big way before more liberal ideals took root in, I think it will take far longer for the country to move on than we could have expected just a few years back.

I think there's two reasons for those statistics - one is that the people who I know and have reasonably liberal views simply do not vote, because there aren't any viable choices at the moment, and it's hard to trust parties that have just appeared and preach about change for the better, just as the ruling party is losing popularity. We're just waiting for the opportune moment to vote when it matters - not when we have to choose between one evil and another evil, but with different specifics.

The other reason for that, I think, is what I me tinned in my previous post - people were fed up with the Civic Platform. The constant corruption scandals, raise of VAT and other things made people look at Law&Justice as the "lesser evil". Turns out they were wrong.

I'm very interested to see what the next election will look like. If the gap between L&J/CP and other parties doesn't significantly reduce, then I'll worry. For now, unless L&J invents cure for cancer and raises everyone's salaries by 100% by cutting taxes, I don't see them being elected for a second term. The obvious choice would be to vote for CP, however I think that people will remember their bullshit and many of them will try to look for an alternative.

This is when the reasonable young people will think "okay, so there is hope for this country after all and vote. For now, we're too busy working our assess off to make a decent living and/or studying to worry about which clowns get elected - for the past couple of years, no matter who won, we lost. Now, it may start to change, as more people realise how bad of a choice both CP and L&J are and our votes may actually matter (currently they don't because there's too few of us). The question is whether a reasonable alternative will present itself. Currently it's too early to say.

I was born in this country and I see a lot of good in it (despite being born in a radical, pathological family), and I don't want to leave. The country keeps giving me reasons to, though. I'll give it 10 years tops - if things don't change for the better significantly, I'm bailing out before the boat sinks.

 

[Depths of Orion]

To be honest this doesn't surprise me one bit. I'm polish so I have quite a lot of polish friends on facebook and it's disgusting how much hatred they have towards the immigrants.
They've been protesting this for several months. It's really sad to see

 

[zonezeus]

I'm very interested to see what the next election will look like. If the gap between L&J/CP and other parties doesn't significantly reduce, then I'll worry. For now, unless L&J invents cure for cancer and raises everyone's salaries by 100% by cutting taxes, I don't see them being elected for a second term.

If they manage to balance the budget without raising taxes - which I think they won't be able to pull off because they are largely counting on revenues that may or may not materialize - PiS being elected for a second term is exactly what is going to happen.

 

[CassSept]

If they manage to balance the budget without raising taxes - which I think they won't be able to pull off because they are largely counting on revenues that may or may not materialize - PiS being elected for a second term is exactly what is going to happen.

There is absolutely no way they can pull off their current fiscal policy beyond 2016 (which only works because they managed to throw some 2016 expenses back into 2015 budget back in December and their headline project is only in effect for 9 months). Lack of any alternative that's capable of taking them down on a national level is a much greater problem.

 

[AstroZombie]

Polska strong!

 

[Accoun]

Polska strong!

Kurwa!

 

[Viltsu300]

I hope that my country (Finland) would do the same...

 

[Darkangel]

I can understand Poland's position, I mean why risk it from their perspective? You kind of side-step the whole "domestically born" jihadist thing by just never having any to begin with.

 

[Walpurgis]

From my experience actually many, many immigrants don't see themselves as local people in the EU country they live. See, for instance, I'm born in Croatia and both of my parents are Croatians. By now I have an Austrian passport. When someone asks me what I am, then I say I'm Austrian. I feel myself as Austrian because I have adopted the local values.

That said, I have rarely seen other local immigrants (especially when they are of Muslim origin) who would consider them as local - EVEN the ones that have been born here and have the paperwork. Now THAT is fucking sad.

I actually had a discussion about this in my gym with some immigrants a couple of weeks back. They were like "Well, you're parents are Croatians, so that's what you are as well." and I'm like "No." and all those guys give me a Bertstare.

This is very much a problem IMO.

I was born in Canada but my parents came from Africa. If someone asks me what I am, I will say African because me being Canadian is a given. That's probably why they gave you the weird stare.

You don't have to pick one or the other. You can be both and that is what most people choose.

 

[Lead]

Most terror in UK is from ethnic Europeans. Genocides in Bosnia are from ethnic Europeans.
You mentioned 20 years, what were Muslims doing over the past 1000 years in Europe? Getting by. Why not question what contemporary changes have taken place to see this sudden (and i purposely used sudden ) change for a small amount of Muslims. There are millions of europeam muslims getting on fine still, but it seems your burying your head and ignoring that fact. Nice use of slippery slope though.

Why are you comparing what was basically a civil war (the troubles) and all out war (Serb-Bosnian war)to religious terrorism?

And the Muslim population have never been as large in Europe as it has become over the past 40 years. The Muslim population have basically exploded (no pun intended) since after World War 2, so you just can't compare the time prior to that.

When I grew up as a child it was a rare thing to see maybe a Turk on the street, I walk down the street these days and 1 in 10 are people with an Islam cultural background one way or the other.

Having more Muslims obviously means having a bigger risk of "the few bad apples" committing terrorism.

 

[AstroZombie]

You mentioned 20 years, what were Muslims doing over the past 1000 years in Europe?

You must not be from the Balkans, Greece, Spain, or other parts of southern Europe. Know your history.

 

[kingkaiser]

I think there's two reasons for those statistics - one is that the people who I know and have reasonably liberal views simply do not vote, because there aren't any viable choices at the moment

As someone who was born in Poland but grew up in Germany I am having a really hard time to understand how the true and only alternative for progressive people, the Zjednoczona Lewica (United Left) can be ignored so hard, that they couldn't even manage to take a seat in the Sejm (Parliament).

I mean, I can understand the general distrust against anything left after forty years of socialism and the oppression it came with, but just looking at the electoral manifesto of the ZL it seems they have pretty modest and sane ideas, you know, like rising minimum wage, taxing the wealthy more appropriate and cutting the VAT.

So, what’s the excuse for those liberal people not voting for ZL?

 

[Accoun]

So, what’s the excuse for those liberal people not voting for ZL?

Don't people generally have aversion to SLD? ZL is made of other parties IIRC, which SLD is a part of, if not the majority.

 

[KonradLaw]

As someone who was born in Poland but grew up in Germany I am having a really hard time to understand how the true and only alternative for progressive people, the Zjednoczona Lewica (United Left) can be ignored so hard, that they couldn't even manage to take a seat in the Sejm (Parliament).

I mean, I can understand the general distrust against anything left after forty years of socialism and the oppression it came with, but just looking at the electoral manifesto of the ZL it seems they have pretty modest and sane ideas, you know, like rising minimum wage, taxing the wealthy more appropriate and cutting the VAT.

So, what’s the excuse for those liberal people not voting for ZL?

It's SLD. People haven't forgotten their rule, with over 20% unemployment. Not to mention that there was this crazy 2 year period where pretty much every single day we had journalist dig up new corruption example from SLD. And I'm not joking. Pretty much every single day.

Poland is very right wing centered as a whole. Thanks to decades of communism people are immune to leftist ideas. Even when SLD rulled twice, their rule was pretty much right-wing anyway. Not to mention that the current right wing parties have adapted left ideas. The liberals took over the more moral aspects (to a point that's acceptable to typical polish catholic's levels), while the hard right-wingers took over the social ideas of giving out the money and taxing the right. So there's really nothing left fot ZL.

 

[CassSept]

So, what’s the excuse for those liberal people not voting for ZL?

In short? They're a complete embarrassment.

In Poland you can either run in the election as a political party or a coalition. Political party needs 5% in the election to get into the parliament, coalition needs 8%. ZL would have gotten the 8% required if not for the last week surge of 'Razem', a far left socialist party that thanks to their charismatic leader went from 0,5% in the polls a week before election to 3,5% in the actual election, thus costing both parties any chance of being in the parliament (however, gaining public funds for further activity, as all parties that get above 3% in the election receive financing from budget).

ZL is a coalition of 'Ruch Palikota' and 'SLD', two completely disastrous parties who due to their actions are both responsible for the decline of popularity of liberla ideas in Poland as much as the recent rise of nationalism around Europe.

'Ruch Palikota' was a somewhat to-go anti-estabilishment party in the 2011 election. However, after they've successfully gotten over 10% in the election and beaten veteran left-wing party 'SLD' they proceeded to do squat. For 4 years they managed to do nothing but organize half-assed anti-church happenings. Thing is, the church obviously has too much power in Poland but come on, it would be nice if they did anything, anything of substance. Instead they turned out to be a gimmick party that within two years went from 10% in the election to nothing.

'SLD' is, somehow, even worse! They are the direct descendant of 'PZPR', the communist regime that ruled Poland for half a century - and that's not everything! The last time they were in power - they won over 40% of the votes in 2001 - their government went down in flames amidst a flurry of scandals. Then-prime minister Leszek Miller was removed from power and they quietly became the parliament minority. The party then meandered for a few years as they failed to regain their prior influence. So what do they do? Of course, in 2011 they selected Leszek Miller, widely considered to be the worst prime minister in modern history of Poland, to be their leader again! And he managed to tank the party even further by selecting a completely inept amateur as their candidate for 2015 presidential election. The cherry on top of course being SLD, for the first time ever, failing to be voted into the parliament.

Left-wing parties in Poland are a complete disaster and they've got nobody else but themselves to blame.

 

[KonradLaw]

You mentioned 20 years, what were Muslims doing over the past 1000 years in Europe? Getting by. .

By getting by you mean slaughtering, raping, pillaging and when dust settle rulling with iron fist? Stuff like Reconquista or battle a gates of Vienna are still integral part of European's common conciousness for many people. Polish's version of catholicism is still basically church of war - with Poland being the defender of western civilization and whole christianity. Almost nobody will say they believe those things out loud, but deep, beneath all the modernity those things are alive and well in polish society.
Western Europe is more progressive (plus thanks to colonialism can be shamed easier), but even there those elements are still visible. One just has to look at the recent explosion of crusaders/deus vult memes' popularity.

 

[kingkaiser]

Wow, thanks for all the replies.

Looks like the info I had about the ZL were just pretty shallow, I had no idea.

Corruption seems to be still the major problem in my old homeland, it's crazy how fast new parties rise and implode because of it.

Yeah, looking at it this way the political choice for Polish people is hardly a motivating one to actually vote. Not like it's much better here in Germany though.

By the way, was the eavesdropping scandal ever dissolved?

It always seemed a bit fishy to me such a big scandal erupted close to the elections.

 

[TaterTots]

ISIS has been threatening to send in their "soldiers" with immigrants fleeing. Obviously, some kind of measure has to be made to prevent an attack. What option do countries have?

 

[Viltsu300]

ISIS has been threatening to send in their "soldiers" with immigrants fleeing. Obviously, some kind of measure has to be made to prevent an attack. What option do countries have?

D-d-d-don't g-g-ive in to f-fear


Close the borders.

 

[JimmyRustler]

I was born in Canada but my parents came from Africa. If someone asks me what I am, I will say African because me being Canadian is a given. That's probably why they gave you the weird stare.

You don't have to pick one or the other. You can be both and that is what most people choose.

This is not how integration should work in my opinion - and this is exactly the reason why ethnic circles of immigrants form in many countries. Grats for being part of the problem.