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[PrivateRyan]

I get why it's happened but it's crazy but it wasn't that long ago that we were calling Sean Murray humble, classy, etc

 

[Bits N Pieces]

Why did the person who posted this over on Reddit delete their account? Anyone know?

 

[lordfuzzybutt]

Why did the person who posted this over on Reddit delete their account? Anyone know?

Wasn't it a mod that did that?

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

Y'all need to understand the concept of puffery.

 

[Jinroh]

Customers are owed nothing.

Is it me or are you defending false advertising?

 

[Pestilence11]

Why did the person who posted this over on Reddit delete their account? Anyone know?

Wasn't it a mod that did that?

Threats of violence most likely. If a mod deletes an account it shows up differently on Reddit.

 

[patapuf]

Is it me or are you defending false advertising?

Yeah, i don't get the attitude of "The dev is allowed to say whatever he wants, it's your own fault if you believe him".

 

[Osla]

There are many people, myself included, who feel they have received the game that was advertised. I didn't follow everything about this game, but enough to justify a purchase.

They funny thing is, two weeks ago people were asking what you did in this game, yet now we suddenly have a list of things that apparently the game was meant to be. If you went back and looked at games that are released within the last few months/year, and looked at their trailers and development videos you could draw up a list of things that didn't make the games as well.

Game development is about compromise. It is governed by technical aspects as much as it by its artistic intentions.

We are in a position where people are trawling through every single interview hoping to catch the poor bloke out. That to me suggest this is more than simple criticism, and more in line with a typical boring gamer outrage. I didn't see many people citing the criticisms in the list until someone had written it out, and now it is suddenly Hello games this, hello games that.

I don't particularly like terms such as liar, molyenuex 2, etc because it is not criticism, it's abusive. If in 3 games time Murray still has the same accusations being thrown at his games, then yes, maybe we can have this discussion.

But at the moment you have to give him the benefit of the doubt. He is a relative new face in the industry that was shoved into the spotlight, with strong ideas that should be celebrated. But instead, like gamers do, especially with hyped games, they really gone in for the kill, and i think that is really sad.

All i see is a Phil Fish mark 2, Jennifer Helper, Greg Zeschuk etc happening here. Customers are owed nothing.

It is fair to criticise the game, and there are many good posts in this page doing that, but i think there is a lot to celebrate in NMS.

There are a lot of things that Sean will learn from this, but i fall into the camp that some of the behaviour surrounding this is pretty low especially the blanket statements about Sean character, and yes i think this is blown way out of proportion.

Like many posters on here, I didn't have to retroactively read through Murray's interviews or watch his interviews. Or read that reddit list.

My hype was built up slowly over the years by what they were saying. "Planets revolve around their stars, planets rotate, only a fraction of the planets contain complicated lifeforms" (paraphrasing).

To me that was the appeal, precisely those things. And those things are precisely what's missing, without explanation whatsoever.

I'm still enjoying the game, but I hope I definitively learned my lesson this time and will not pre-order anything ever again.

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

Yeah, i don't get the attitude of "The dev is allowed to say whatever he wants, it's your own fault if you believe him".

WTF is that kind of attitude?

A lot of the claims on the Reddit list aren't anything like false advertising. More of a difference of opinion or exaggeration. False advertising usually isn't actionable unless it's clearly a demonstrably false statement. "This is the best pizza in town!" isn't really something you can prove false. "Our medium pizza is 50% bigger than National Chain PJ's medium pizza!" can be proven true or false.

Once you start getting in to matters of interpretation and subjects where different people have reasonably different reactions, it's not really false advertising any more. It certainly can be a case of not managing your customers' expectations and not satisfying those expectations, even those reasonable expectations. But false advertising is a higher level, and most of the Reddit link didn't really seem like it was up to that point.

 

[BigTnaples]

There are many people, myself included, who feel they have received the game that was advertised. I didn't follow everything about this game, but enough to justify a purchase.

They funny thing is, two weeks ago people were asking what you did in this game, yet now we suddenly have a list of things that apparently the game was meant to be. If you went back and looked at games that are released within the last few months/year, and looked at their trailers and development videos you could draw up a list of things that didn't make the games as well.

Game development is about compromise. It is governed by technical aspects as much as it by its artistic intentions.

We are in a position where people are trawling through every single interview hoping to catch the poor bloke out. That to me suggest this is more than simple criticism, and more in line with a typical boring gamer outrage. I didn't see many people citing the criticisms in the list until someone had written it out, and now it is suddenly Hello games this, hello games that.

I don't particularly like terms such as liar, molyenuex 2, etc because it is not criticism, it's abusive. If in 3 games time Murray still has the same accusations being thrown at his games, then yes, maybe we can have this discussion.

But at the moment you have to give him the benefit of the doubt. He is a relative new face in the industry that was shoved into the spotlight, with strong ideas that should be celebrated. But instead, like gamers do, especially with hyped games, they really gone in for the kill, and i think that is really sad.

All i see is a Phil Fish mark 2, Jennifer Helper, Greg Zeschuk etc happening here. Customers are owed nothing.

It is fair to criticise the game, and there are many good posts in this page doing that, but i think there is a lot to celebrate in NMS.

There are a lot of things that Sean will learn from this, but i fall into the camp that some of the behaviour surrounding this is pretty low especially the blanket statements about Sean character, and yes i think this is blown way out of proportion.

Absolutely fantastic post.

 

[JaseC]

But at the moment you have to give him the benefit of the doubt. He is a relative new face in the industry that was shoved into the spotlight, with strong ideas that should be celebrated. But instead, like gamers do, especially with hyped games, they really gone in for the kill, and i think that is really sad.

People were giving him the benefit of the doubt, however at this point the game has been out for well over a week and not only has Hello not acknowledged the missing or otherwise downscaled features (primarily the complete and utter lack of any multiplayer functionality), but it has also shown no intention of addressing the concerns. That's why some are growing increasingly frustrated -- they feel as though, and rightly so, that Hello is ducking and weaving.

 

[Tranqueris]

So I decided to actually watch some of the trailers for this game and I think I can see where the crazy hype for this game came from. I bought the game having only seen the first trailer way back when it was announced and some hour long videos of PS4 gameplay but I think if I had been paying attention to this game and had been excited for it the way some people were, I think I would have been sort of devastated.

The game in these trailers is like a more vastly well rounded version of an Elite Dangerous/Star Citizen tier game.

 

[Jinroh]

One thing is sure, the 100 bucks I spent for the special edition are indeed blown out of proportions and I'm just a stupid consumer to believe the game creator when he lies about a great many things.

After all it's just priced like a full priced game, let's give him the benefit of the doubt, it's his first game! Let's do that for his second and third game as well too.

I can't believe some of you guys, seriously.

 

[CecilRousso]

I'm still enjoying the game, but I hope I definitively learned my lesson this time and will not pre-order anything ever again.

There really were few reasons to preorder this, unless it's the "physical copies were cheaper on Amazon/Something similiar" argument. But even with that, no one should preorder if they're not prepared to take a risk on what the final product ends up being.

It would be good if the developers could explain why something they explicitly said recently would be included, but people really need to stop taking everything that's being shown or talked about as promises, and them not being included as lies.

It's not promises, it's what developers aim for.
It's not lies when they're not included, it's compromises.

Software development will always come with risks, and releases will always be compromises.

And no one needs to be there day 1 for the game. No one.

 

[Joelstinton14]

Like many posters on here, I didn't have to retroactively read through Murray's interviews or watch his interviews. Or read that reddit list.

My hype was built up slowly over the years by what they were saying. "Planets revolve around their stars, planets rotate, only a fraction of the planets contain complicated lifeforms" (paraphrasing).

To me that was the appeal, precisely those things. And those things are precisely what's missing, without explanation whatsoever.

I'm still enjoying the game, but I hope I definitively learned my lesson this time and will not pre-order anything ever again.

That's fair enough man, I understand that some people bought into the game through that specific statement, and its sad to see people disappointed they may have not gotten the game they wanted. Looking back through some of the videos, it plays and looks pretty much as what we have now. And i guess that what sold me on the game - the exploring part. Landing on planets and poking around, shooting off into the stars and repeating. That what the game is to me. Apples and Oranges i guess

I think this post above sums up my feelings pretty well, a lot of the things in the reddit list really are nitpicking (No butterflies!)

A lot of the claims on the Reddit list aren't anything like false advertising. More of a difference of opinion or exaggeration. False advertising usually isn't actionable unless it's clearly a demonstrably false statement. "This is the best pizza in town!" isn't really something you can prove false. "Our medium pizza is 50% bigger than National Chain PJ's medium pizza!" can be proven true or false.

Once you start getting in to matters of interpretation and subjects where different people have reasonably different reactions, it's not really false advertising any more. It certainly can be a case of not managing your customers' expectations and not satisfying those expectations, even those reasonable expectations. But false advertising is a higher level, and most of the Reddit link didn't really seem like it was up to that point.

So i think that the overblown reaction, or some of the accusations thrown at Sean are really not called for, and unfortunate.

But i won't lie, there be a lot of things for him to think about with the fallout but i hate to see another developer with good ideas neutered because of OTT reactions based on.. Perceptions?

 

[LastCupOfSorrow]

There are many people, myself included, who feel they have received the game that was advertised. I didn't follow everything about this game, but enough to justify a purchase.

They funny thing is, two weeks ago people were asking what you did in this game, yet now we suddenly have a list of things that apparently the game was meant to be. If you went back and looked at games that are released within the last few months/year, and looked at their trailers and development videos you could draw up a list of things that didn't make the games as well.

Game development is about compromise. It is governed by technical aspects as much as it by its artistic intentions.

We are in a position where people are trawling through every single interview hoping to catch the poor bloke out. That to me suggest this is more than simple criticism, and more in line with a typical boring gamer outrage. I didn't see many people citing the criticisms in the list until someone had written it out, and now it is suddenly Hello games this, hello games that.

I don't particularly like terms such as liar, molyenuex 2, etc because it is not criticism, it's abusive. If in 3 games time Murray still has the same accusations being thrown at his games, then yes, maybe we can have this discussion.

But at the moment you have to give him the benefit of the doubt. He is a relative new face in the industry that was shoved into the spotlight, with strong ideas that should be celebrated. But instead, like gamers do, especially with hyped games, they really gone in for the kill, and i think that is really sad.

All i see is a Phil Fish mark 2, Jennifer Helper, Greg Zeschuk etc happening here. Customers are owed nothing.

It is fair to criticise the game, and there are many good posts in this page doing that, but i think there is a lot to celebrate in NMS.

There are a lot of things that Sean will learn from this, but i fall into the camp that some of the behaviour surrounding this is pretty low especially the blanket statements about Sean character, and yes i think this is blown way out of proportion.

This kind of nonsense is what I do not understand...

When someone is on video over fifty times promising features that are not in the final product and then refuses to answer for his nonexistent integrity, I think it is a safe bet that that individual is a liar.

There is no argument at this point in his defense. There are too many multiple dozens of videos at this point proving this man has absolutely no positive character attributes, lol...

EDIT: The hesitation in most of his lies are what give it away. You can tell how uncomfortable he is when he says yes to questions from journalists in regards to features that are not actually even in the final game. The vagueness of his "answers" also give it away... It's almost as if he knows half of the things he stated are not even possible from his team yet he promises them anyway...

This video says it all: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kuz3WETd4ug

 

[Osla]

So I decided to actually watch some of the trailers for this game and I think I can see where the crazy hype for this game came from. I bought the game having only seen the first trailer way back when it was announced and some hour long videos of PS4 gameplay but I think if I had been paying attention to this game and had been excited for it the way some people were, I think I would have been sort of devastated.

The game in these trailers are like a more vastly well rounded version of an Elite Dangerous/Star Citizen tier game.

Exactly.

Maybe it was easier to believe an indie dev who seemed to connect with me on a personal level in terms of inspiration. Right now I'm not even sure if he's been lying all along or if they had to cut a lot of very basic things at the very last minute.

I'm 'hoping', for lack of a better word, it's the latter possibility. Maybe they were using the Superformula after all and had to take it out at the last minute, thus returning to old, outdated code. Something must have happened in the last two months.

 

[Brerlappin]

So I decided to actually watch some of the trailers for this game and I think I can see where the crazy hype for this game came from. I bought the game having only seen the first trailer way back when it was announced and some hour long videos of PS4 gameplay but I think if I had been paying attention to this game and had been excited for it the way some people were, I think I would have been sort of devastated.

The game in these trailers are like a more vastly well rounded version of an Elite Dangerous/Star Citizen tier game.

Those trailers are almost from a different game entirely from what ive seen of NMS.

For real, this is the worst bait and switch since Aliens: Colonial Marines.

 

[True Fire]

Looks like GAF is still doing Olympic stretches to defend this game. It's apparently our fault when we're lied to by devs, ok. It's perfectly normal when devs go back on not one or two, but dozens of promises, ok. It's acceptable that they never even planned to implement a key feature that they talked about in interviews. Ok.

 

[CecilRousso]

Looks like GAF is still doing Olympic stretches to defend this game. It's apparently our fault when we're lied to by devs, ok. It's perfectly normal when devs go back on not one or two, but dozens of promises, ok. It's acceptable that they never even planned to implement a key feature that they talked about in interviews. Ok.

It's not your fault, but people shouldn't be that suprised that things like this happen.

If you understand software development, then you can understand certain factors that contribute to compromises having to be made.

And if you don't understand, or simply just don't want to listen to those factors, since you're just the customer and shouldn't have to deal with that, then you should at least understand the risk with preordering and day 1 purchases.

The devs are of course not without blame, but customers should also know better.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

A lot of the claims on the Reddit list aren't anything like false advertising. More of a difference of opinion or exaggeration. False advertising usually isn't actionable unless it's clearly a demonstrably false statement. "This is the best pizza in town!" isn't really something you can prove false. "Our medium pizza is 50% bigger than National Chain PJ's medium pizza!" can be proven true or false.

Once you start getting in to matters of interpretation and subjects where different people have reasonably different reactions, it's not really false advertising any more. It certainly can be a case of not managing your customers' expectations and not satisfying those expectations, even those reasonable expectations. But false advertising is a higher level, and most of the Reddit link didn't really seem like it was up to that point.

You can't compare what has happened here to someone claiming to have the best pizza in town. Claiming to have the best pizza in town is just mere puffery, not something a reasonable consumer would rely on. But when Murray says there is physics, that planets rotate and planets revolve and there is multiplayer and you can run into other people like in journey, and that all turns out to be false, we're talking a different ballpark.

These are concrete things being disputed. It isn't a matter of interpreting whether someone could reasonably rely on statements of fact or not.

Looks like GAF is still doing Olympic stretches to defend this game. It's apparently our fault when we're lied to by devs, ok. It's perfectly normal when devs go back on not one or two, but dozens of promises, ok. It's acceptable that they never even planned to implement a key feature that they talked about in interviews. Ok.

Some of the posts are in fact baffling.

 

[TheVoidDragon]

There are many people, myself included, who feel they have received the game that was advertised. I didn't follow everything about this game, but enough to justify a purchase.

They funny thing is, two weeks ago people were asking what you did in this game, yet now we suddenly have a list of things that apparently the game was meant to be. If you went back and looked at games that are released within the last few months/year, and looked at their trailers and development videos you could draw up a list of things that didn't make the games as well.

Game development is about compromise. It is governed by technical aspects as much as it by its artistic intentions.

We are in a position where people are trawling through every single interview hoping to catch the poor bloke out. That to me suggest this is more than simple criticism, and more in line with a typical boring gamer outrage. I didn't see many people citing the criticisms in the list until someone had written it out, and now it is suddenly Hello games this, hello games that.

I don't particularly like terms such as liar, molyenuex 2, etc because it is not criticism, it's abusive. If in 3 games time Murray still has the same accusations being thrown at his games, then yes, maybe we can have this discussion.

But at the moment you have to give him the benefit of the doubt. He is a relative new face in the industry that was shoved into the spotlight, with strong ideas that should be celebrated. But instead, like gamers do, especially with hyped games, they really gone in for the kill, and i think that is really sad.

All i see is a Phil Fish mark 2, Jennifer Helper, Greg Zeschuk etc happening here. Customers are owed nothing.

It is fair to criticise the game, and there are many good posts in this page doing that, but i think there is a lot to celebrate in NMS.

There are a lot of things that Sean will learn from this, but i fall into the camp that some of the behaviour surrounding this is pretty low especially the blanket statements about Sean character, and yes i think this is blown way out of proportion.

I don't have a problem with features being removed from games, that sort of thing happens all the time and is to be expected. Many of the things he mentioned years ago are inconsequential really and do not have any real impact on the game. The radio chatter, for example - it would have been nice, but oh well, it's not important. The problem is that when it happens many, many times and there is a huge list of features that are gone, then it becomes too much to just put down to just reasonable development changes.

I think for me, the biggest problem is what we have got is somewhat similarto what it was promised to be, but it's not quite there. It less like just typical development changes and more outright stripping quite significant chunks of features, some of which were extremely important overall (The space physics, for example) out of the game for no conceivable reason. All that's left is the core idea of what it said it would be. That may be enough for you to be happy, but to me that doesn't mean it's what was promised when practically every area of the game is different from what was said or shown, other than those rudimentary features. If this has been a case "Well, we had to stop all that and start again, so it's basically a new game" like what happened with say TF2 or HL2, it wouldn't be so much of a problem, but it still attempts to disguise itself as what it was originally and because of that it just doesn't work.

When a huge amount features mentioned, shown and talked about for years are just gone with no explanation, the Steam page and release trailers use old footage that doesn't represent the actual game, when all the gameplay shown off before the release doesn't represent the game fully, Sean still saying things to suggest there's multiplayer when there's not, explaining nothing and ignoring all the complaints and Sean still says one thing and then changes his mind shortly after...i don't think it can be waved away with "It's their first big game, just let them do whatever"

 

[PrivateRyan]

Maybe it was easier to believe an indie dev who seemed to connect with me on a personal level in terms of inspiration. Right now I'm not even sure if he's been lying all along or if they had to cut a lot of very basic things at the very last minute.

I find it hard to believe he's a deliberate liar. I think they should have done more to clear up some of the misconceptions about the game prior to release (multiplayer being the main one) but it's hard to say if that's them being naïve, a gagging order on what they could/couldn't say from Sony, wanting the hype train to get carried away for more sales, not having time to address the misconceptions due to crunch, etc. Could be lots of things.

But the "it's all fine" posts are baffling. I know that gamers can be a bit dramatic but it's not like this fuss has come out from left field over nothing. No smoke without fire and all that.

 

[ClosingADoor]

But at the moment you have to give him the benefit of the doubt. He is a relative new face in the industry that was shoved into the spotlight, with strong ideas that should be celebrated. But instead, like gamers do, especially with hyped games, they really gone in for the kill, and i think that is really sad.

All i see is a Phil Fish mark 2, Jennifer Helper, Greg Zeschuk etc happening here. Customers are owed nothing.

It is fair to criticise the game, and there are many good posts in this page doing that, but i think there is a lot to celebrate in NMS.

There are a lot of things that Sean will learn from this, but i fall into the camp that some of the behaviour surrounding this is pretty low especially the blanket statements about Sean character, and yes i think this is blown way out of proportion.

Problem seem to be more that after release the devs just shut down all communications. It's not hard to put out some message about the multiplayer to clear stuff up for example. Yet Murray is posting some stuff on Twitter just yesterday, but ignoring the community response that he surely must have seen. People get angry then. Some are going way too far, but the criticism is very valid.

And Murray is not a new face, he knows how the industry works. He has worked in it his whole life. This is not his first game.

 

[danowat]

Thinking about this whole "what we were told vs what we got thing", and about how games companies outline what their game actually consists......

I was perusing the website for the space shooter Everspace, and was there ever anything like this page ever produced for NMS?

https://everspace-game.com/game/

 

[Joelstinton14]

This kind of nonsense is what I do not understand...

When someone is on video over fifty times promising features that are not in the final product and then refuses to answer for his nonexistent integrity, I think it is a safe bet that that individual is a liar.

There is no argument at this point in his defense. There are too many multiple dozens of videos at this point proving this man has absolutely no positive character attributes, lol...

EDIT: The hesitation in most of his lies are what give it away. You can tell how uncomfortable he is when he says yes to questions from journalists in regards to features that are not actually even in the final game. The vagueness of his "answers" also give it away... It's almost as if he knows half of the things he stated are not even possible from his team yet he promises them anyway...

This video says it all: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kuz3WETd4ug

Which one is it? Been vague about the game or over promising? Because they are two very different things, it is a contradiction.

Even on that reddit list, it is full of qualifiers such as "Maybe" (I.e the asteroid quote). The rest of that list, you can qualify as being in the game, again it down to perception and interpretation of what has been said.

The main crux of what is apparently missing is how solar systems are constructed ( and even then their is contradictory info regarding the patch notes). The rest of it is pure window dressing, or again, in the game but it is down to interpretation or perception.

But we do have is a fully functioning game that includes all the things listed (resources, trade, factions etc) that have working systems to make a game about grinding resources to move forward. Whether that meets your expectations is a different matter , and i guess one for reviews.

 

[Steiner84]

the defence force for this game is ridicoulus.

"you have to understand that some aspects of a game just dont make the cut into the final version"

noone would have a problem with "some". But we are not talking about "some". Were talking about the whole foundation of the game and the premise people based their purchase on.
This is like announcing a zombi survival game that ends up having no zombis.

 

[TheVoidDragon]

Which one is it? Been vague about the game or over promisin? Because they are two very different things, it is a contradiction.

They don't contradict each other. It's both. Vague in the way that he described the features in the game, over promising with the things he said would be included in the game.

But we do have is a fully functioning game that includes all the things listed (resources, trade, factions etc) that have working systems to make a game about grinding resources to move forward. Whether that meets your expectations is a different matter , and i guess one for reviews.

Same could be said to apply to Spore, or Aliens: Colonial Marines, or lots of other disappointing games. They also had "all the things listed" and were what they said they would be in terms of core idea. Simplying those ideas so much that there's no definite values applied to them and then saying "Well it's all still there!" is absurd.

 

[nynt9]

It seems to me that a lot of posters defending the game here don't understand the simple nature of the criticisms. Most people understand games change during development. However, when a developer keeps promising features through years - and some of these promises are very explicit and reiterated several times - people expect those features to be real. This isn't something most people just decided to retroactively care about. Me and many others were expecting these features for years because we were aware of what the developer has promised. Now, it's ok if the developer fails to implement these. It's a shame, but such is life. However, when they trumpet on national TV or major media events that these things will happen, they also need to announce the cancellation of these things just as loudly. Otherwise it creates a misleading narrative.

Digital store fronts still have images from this version of the game, and they haven't made a public statement about the cut features a week into its release despite fan proddings. Sean has tweeted less than a dozen or so times since the game's release, whereas before that he tweeted that amount daily. They know what's going on. They've been contacted by journalists too, but they haven't responded. They're avoiding questions.

Also, some people are coming in here and saying the backlash to Sean is too strong, then when asked to clarify they say they mean on Reddit and Twitter. While that is a shame, the level of discourse here is different. By responding to posts here with an impression gained on Reddit, it muddies the discourse here. Please don't act like people here are having the same reaction as people elsewhere. The discourse here has been mostly level and claims about outrage just derail the thread.

Sure, people can still enjoy the game. Maybe you weren't aware of the promised features or you don't care. But that's beside the point, and it is no grounds to defend the actions of Sean Murray et al. - the game can be good but the developers still could have been misleading. They are two separate things, and you shouldn't confuse your expectations from the game with other peoples' expectations and what was explicitly promised by the marketing.

 

[shintoki]

the defence force for this game is ridicoulus.

"you have to understand that some aspects of a game just dont make the cut into the final version"

noone would have a problem with "some". But we are not talking about "some". Were talking about the whole foundation of the game and the premise people based their purchase on.
This is like announcing a zombi survival game that ends up having no zombis.

"But I like the game!"
"He has communicated on Twitter the day before it launched!"
"Its unfair to take old interview"
"Game development changes"
"People just wanted it to fail"
"You should just give him time to respond"
"There are mistakes on page 3 of 20, it's invalid and clearly created by haters"
"It's your fault for having expectations"
"Who cares, it's selling well"
"Another bash on NMS thread"
"People in the OT are saying they like it through"
"But it happened with X Game before"
"It was an indie team anyways"
"He is so genuine and humble though"

The entire issue is the goods don't even get close to what was said(it's a pretty strong case for false advertisement, specifically with the online portion), followed by possibly some of the worst communication seen for a developer. The dude has basically resort to, "If I don't say anything, it will go away". This isn't about if you like the game or not at all. I still enjoy Fable and Spore, but they definitely sold you something that was missing a lot of what was said, with no communication prior.

 

[Ovek]

Those trailers are almost from a different game entirely from what ive seen of NMS.

For real, this is the worst bait and switch since Aliens: Colonial Marines.

Yep the game we got looks way more basic than the one in the videos hell the videos look like a next gen version more than anything.

Even in space the asteroids were in nice belts that make sense now your just presented with a wall of the things and every inch of space between planets is filled with them, I can only imagine they did this to make mining them easier but why need to refuel your pulse drive when the fule of it is literally everywhere.

I said earlier in this thread the game got dumbed the fuck down... People got confused with planets rotating -god forbid you want kids to learn about that stuff- instead let's just rip all of the shit out! When a more simple approach would be to have a half decent waypoint system, but they couldn't do that could they... why?! Because the sun isn't there and is nothing but a glowing orb in a skybox, something the developer himself slagged of in one of his interviews.

 

[Baalzebup]

the defence force for this game is ridicoulus.

"you have to understand that some aspects of a game just dont make the cut into the final version"

noone would have a problem with "some". But we are not talking about "some". Were talking about the whole foundation of the game and the premise people based their purchase on.
This is like announcing a zombi survival game that ends up having no zombis.

The "foundation of the game" is being a space-explorer, which is the game I bought and the game I am playing. Yes, shit on the missing features galore as it deserves, but the base game, called No Man's Sky, with the basic gameplay loop and sense of exploration that I expected from it, is there.

I find your claim about the missing foundation to be as ridiculous as any" nuh-uh" defense.

 

[PrivateRyan]

This is like announcing a zombi survival game that ends up having no zombis.

Ridiculous statements like this are what's making discussion of NMS so difficult.

 

[Ovek]

The "foundation of the game" is being a space-explorer, which is the game I bought and the game I am playing. Yes, shit on the missing features galore as it deserves, but the base game, called No Man's Sky, with the basic gameplay loop and sense of exploration that I expected from it, is there.

I find your claim about the missing foundation to be as ridiculous as any" nuh-uh" defense.

Is it though? I have played it quite a bit and visited many worlds that all looked roughly the same with the same whale cry in the distance even on worlds that don't have any life.

What's to explore and discover when it's all just a slight variation on your starter planet.

 

[Jokab]

Why did the person who posted this over on Reddit delete their account? Anyone know?

Wasn't it a mod that did that?

Threats of violence most likely. If a mod deletes an account it shows up differently on Reddit.

He received death threats and decided to delete his own account.

 

[nynt9]

The "foundation of the game" is being a space-explorer, which is the game I bought and the game I am playing. Yes, shit on the missing features galore as it deserves, but the base game, called No Man's Sky, with the basic gameplay loop and sense of exploration that I expected from it, is there.

I find your claim about the missing foundation to be as ridiculous as any" nuh-uh" defense.

But that's what YOU expected from it. The game was promised as having many aspects, and you focused on one and got that delivered. Good for you. But people expected other aspects as well and didn't get them. You can't dismiss that. People respect your expectations, you must do so for them as well.

 

[LastCupOfSorrow]

Which one is it? Been vague about the game or over promising? Because they are two very different things, it is a contradiction.

Even on that reddit list, it is full of qualifiers such as "Maybe" (I.e the asteroid quote). The rest of that list, you can qualify as being in the game, again it down to perception and interpretation of what has been said.

The main crux of what is apparently missing is how solar systems are constructed ( and even then their is contradictory info regarding the patch notes). The rest of it is pure window dressing, or again, in the game but it is down to interpretation or perception.

But we do have is a fully functioning game that includes all the things listed (resources, trade, factions etc) that have working systems to make a game about grinding resources to move forward. Whether that meets your expectations is a different matter , and i guess one for reviews.

I am not talking about Reddit posts or whatever other nonsense you want to throw into the mix. We are talking about hard VIDEO facts here and the testimony out of Sean Murray's very own mouth! I am not basing my argument off of what others said, like you are. The plain and simple fact is that he is on multiple dozens of videos lying and promising things that he knew were never possible by his team to begin with. Period. He intentionally lied and overpromised features that he knew were never going to be implemented in the game or even possible (by his team) to implement into the game. Whether it was one thing he lied about or many dozens (which is what transpired in this case.) To deny the very evidence that damns him is not only ignorant, but very foolish.

The guy has been recorded dozens and dozens of times lying, even on national television in front of MILLIONS. There is no defense to that. None of your Reddit posts can save the hours of footage of him lying.

Are we not allowed to hold folks accountable for the things that come out of their mouths anymore? Is everything so politically correct that we can not even voice displeasure off of being misled and intentionally misinformed? Sorry to make it sound so dramatic but I almost have to at this point with some of these nonsensical arguments that completely evade fact.

Yet I guarantee you will try to come up with another post that has nothing to do with the facts and videos that I was referring to...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kuz3WETd4ug

 

[Dash_Riprock]

I can't believe people are defending this kind of snake oil salesmen.

 

[Steiner84]

The "foundation of the game" is being a space-explorer, which is the game I bought and the game I am playing. Yes, shit on the missing features galore as it deserves, but the base game, called No Man's Sky, with the basic gameplay loop and sense of exploration that I expected from it, is there.

I find your claim about the missing foundation to be as ridiculous as any" nuh-uh" defense.

the foundation of the game is space exporation in a persistent universe. now its just a space exploration game. hence the comparison to a zombi survival game thats just a survival game.
space exploration alone is nothing outstanding. that is not why the hype build uzp for the game. what made the game so anticipated was the persistent universe, not it just beeing a space exploration game.

they knowingly sold their game into the hype based upon things that arent there. the things that in fact are there wouldnt have ever created such a buzz

 

[LastCupOfSorrow]

I can't believe people are defending this kind of snake oil salesmen.

You and me both! Common sense isn't so common... apparently...

 

[Joelstinton14]

Yep the game we got looks way more basic than the one in the videos hell the videos look like a next gen version more than anything.

Even in space the asteroids were in nice belts that make sense now your just presented with a wall of the things and every inch of space between planets is filled with them, I can only imagine they did this to make mining them easier but why need to refuel your pulse drive when the fule of it is literally everywhere.

I said earlier in this thread the game got dumbed the fuck down... People got confused with planets rotating -god forbid you want kids to learn about that stuff- instead let's just rip all of the shit out! When a more simple approach would be to have a half decent waypoint system, but they couldn't do that could they... why?! Because the sun isn't there and is nothing but a glowing orb in a skybox, something the developer himself slagged of in one of his interviews.

I watched a couple of early video's and to me the base game is there. You can accuse the trailers of scripted events and polishing and over exaggeration the vision for the game for sure. But it not he first or last game to do that, vertical slices is what E3 and the likes are built upon.

But watching the IGN first videos, the base game is all there. They are playing a recognisable version of NMS that i can relate too. I don't feel misled. Sure there are compromises, but that is game development. But the game of exploring planets, shooting off into the space, zooming out to the galaxy/universe, resource management, trading etc is all there. And that is what sold me on the game.

To be honest the planet rotation stuff completely passed me by. Just feel the excessive hunt to prove Sean character is this, or that , is low and not needed for.

I guess the discussion should be about developer access and how open it should be?

 

[Baalzebup]

But that's what YOU expected from it. The game was promised as having many aspects, and you focused on one and got that delivered. Good for you. But people expected other aspects as well and didn't get them. You can't dismiss that. People respect your expectations, you must do so for them as well.

Which is why I said it is ok to shit on the sizable list of missing features. I would never even want to try to dismiss that, but claiming that the whole foundation is missing seem to be going too far. The house is clearly missing the wiring, the roof and the insulation, but the foundation? Nah.

Is it though? I have played it quite a bit and visited many worlds that all looked roughly the same with the same whale cry in the distance even on worlds that don't have any life.

What's to explore and discover when it's all just a slight variation on your starter planet.

Highly dependent on personal thresholds, but Griss wrote a post on this than is better that I could ever write. Plus the variation can get pretty damn wild when you visit planets on systems with stars of other colors. The yellow star systems are the most basic in general.

 

[nynt9]

Which is why I said it is ok to shit on the sizable list of missing features. I would never even want to try to dismiss that, but claiming that the whole foundation is missing seem to be going too far. The house is clearly missing the wiring, the roof and the insulation, but the foundation? Nah.

Highly dependent on personal thresholds, but Griss wrote a post on this that is better that I could ever write. Plus the variation can get pretty damn wild when you visit planets on systems with stars of other colors. The yellow star systems are the most basic in general.

Depends on what the foundation of the game was for you. If you are interested in a casual exploration experience some of it is there. If you are interested in a simulation experience with planets behaving accordingly and bustling AI acting realistically, it's not there. The developers promised both. Hence why some people are massively disappointed and others are happy. Try to have some perspective.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I watched a couple of early video's and to me the base game is there. You can accuse the trailers of scripted events and polishing and over exaggeration the vision for the game for sure. But it not he first or last game to do that, vertical slices is what E3 and the likes are built upon.

But watching the IGN first videos, the base game is all there. They are playing a recognisable version of NMS that i can relate too. I don't feel misled. Sure there are compromises, but that is game development. But the game of exploring planets, shooting off into the space, zooming out to the galaxy/universe, resource management, trading etc is all there. And that is what sold me on the game.

To be honest the planet rotation stuff completely passed me by. Just feel the excessive hunt to prove Sean character is this, or that , is low and not needed for.

I guess the discussion should be about developer access and how open it should be?

No, the discussion is how clear should a developer be that features talked about might not show up in the game, and how will they communicate that to players before release.

The fault from No Man's Sky is that they talked a lot of things, but in the end couldn't deliver it. But along the way they never said things weren't there. The multiplayer, which would have been clear months ago that they wouldn't have it in - if it was in development ever at all! - should have been communicated way clearer for example. You can't talk about stuff like that multiple times over the years, then not have it there and say "well, things change." People are right to feel deceived then.

Murray talked about things in interviews this year about features that are missing. Sure, things change. But you don't remove a total galaxy simulation system a few months before release on a game like this. So why talk about it being there in interviews earlier this year?

 

[Calabi]

It's not an all or nothing situation. They shouldn't say any and everything but they shouldn't have to release a laundry list that addresses every interview done worldwide, every preview, and every hands on write up. It's an unreasonable request. Gamers need to accept that games change over time and that some stuff just won't make it into the final game. It's the nature of game development. I'm also not saying they didn't do anything wrong either; they did. I'm simply addressing the issue that they need to completely come clean after the game is done is unrealistic.



I don't disagree. The way they handled some things was terrible. The whole vague and misleading stuff about multiplayer was totally stupid and completely their fault.

If its not in the game in a functional form then you dont make claims about it, or make claims about how things work that arent true. If features have to be removed or changed then you tell people. Its not a complicated thing.

If there making so many claims that they dont know what they've claimed and are in a big whole mess then these developers already have major problems. Like shouldn't they have design documents? Shouldn't they know what they want in the game. They shouldn't need to check the interviews because they shouldn't be claiming things that arent in the the design docs.

 

[themadcowtipper]

Is it though? I have played it quite a bit and visited many worlds that all looked roughly the same with the same whale cry in the distance even on worlds that don't have any life.

What's to explore and discover when it's all just a slight variation on your starter planet.

But have you travelled to all 18 quadwhatever planets.The cool stuff is all super rare, so rare that only the hardest of the hardcore will find.

 

[Elandyll]

the defence force for this game is ridicoulus.

"you have to understand that some aspects of a game just dont make the cut into the final version"

noone would have a problem with "some". But we are not talking about "some". Were talking about the whole foundation of the game and the premise people based their purchase on.
This is like announcing a zombi survival game that ends up having no zombis.

So is the witch hunt and hyperbole, not unlike your own post here.

"The whole foundation of the game"?

 

[hodgy100]

the defence force for this game is ridicoulus.

"you have to understand that some aspects of a game just dont make the cut into the final version"

noone would have a problem with "some". But we are not talking about "some". Were talking about the whole foundation of the game and the premise people based their purchase on.
This is like announcing a zombi survival game that ends up having no zombis.

Can we stop dismissing discussion as defending the Advertising for this game. some people are just trying to have an actual genuine discussion about game development / advertising and the industry in general, trying to explain how things end up like this (even including qualifiers to explain they aren't justifying the actions)

Just because they aren't dogpiling along with you doesn't mean they condone the misleading advertising that you get in the games industry. they jsut aren't as emotionally invested as you.

the example you quote is totally spot on. Certain things don't end up in the end product because they didn't have the time / money / manpower to do it or due to some other technical limitation.

 

[Baalzebup]

Depends on what the foundation of the game was for you. If you are interested in a casual exploration experience some of it is there. If you are interested in a simulation experience with planets behaving accordingly and bustling AI acting realistically, it's not there. The developers promised both. Hence why some people are massively disappointed and others are happy. Try to have some perspective.

Mmm, true dat. I would consider that to be part of the missing dressing, but people do have a vast variety of priorities.

 

[Joelstinton14]

No, the discussion is how clear should a developer be that features talked about might not show up in the game, and how will they communicate that to players before release.

The fault from No Man's Sky is that they talked a lot of things, but in the end couldn't deliver it. But along the way they never said things weren't there. The multiplayer, which would have been clear months ago that they wouldn't have it in - if it was in development ever at all! - should have been communicated way clearer for example. You can't talk about stuff like that multiple times over the years, then not have it there and say "well, things change." People are right to feel deceived then.

Murray talked about things in interviews this year about features that are missing. Sure, things change. But you don't remove a total galaxy simulation system a few months before release on a game like this. So why talk about it being there in interviews earlier this year?

Because maybe they felt, as the development was coming to a close (or earlier) that it wasn't an important aspect to the game and that they can simulate the important aspects of the physics without resorting to actually implementing it? Like day night cycles/ temperature. Which in turns saves on performance and reduce bugs.

Like after you seen one solar system doing its thing, how many times are you likely to stay and watch it on every system you go to? Once, twice? After that you are just playing the game as we are now.

There isn't a massive list of features of things that are missing - there is plenty of things that can come down to interpretation and perception, and there is even confusion over the solar system construction with the patch notes (which suggest that is some degree of physics in there)

The microscope that sean and the game as been placed under as been insane, and personally unwarranted. When you compile any list it always looks damning, but when you sive through them, it really comes across as nitpicking (no butterflies! oh they are in the game) or a system doesn't work as you initially thought, the criticisms aimed at it start to become muted.

There are things to criticise for sure. But this feels more like finding anything that sticks than having an honest discussions about it. Just my take though, and understand people feel differently. I just feel we start going down a dangerous path where if you want developer interaction, they going to record and apologise to any thing they said when it changes in fear of a backlash. That is what i meant by developer access.