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[Diablohead]

of course a company is going to work at getting money from people, it's the point of them making a console in the first place.

Really interesting if the specs for cost ratio is true.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

But MS is playing it save with the same core games over and over again, while sony tries to establish new IPs. They're just serving the halo, gears and forza guys, but that's just a small group of core gamers. MS is not really interested anymore into getting the whole.

Only if you ignore and all the new XBLA and core Kinect IPs they've been pushing. But that's par for the course around here, I suppose.

I think people are going to expect 60 fps and more dev pushing it.

Don't be so naive, 60 fps will likely never be the norm on consoles.

 

[iceatcs]

Yeah, the whole document basically smelled like nickel&diming your userbase. How to sell more DLC, how to get them to pay for more subscriptions etc.

I though it's what MS doing all the time.

 

[Dabanton]

Witcher 2 was published by MS? Pretty sure it is published by Namco and could theoretically come out on PS3.

I'm sure you know what he meant.

Witcher 2 was obviously not published by them but it goes against the argument many want to make that the 'core' and I'm including both third and first party games is 'underserved' on the 360.

The same kind of shenanigans are what sometimes 'disallows' XBLA from being discussed when talking about a lack of games on the system again because it punctures some peoples arguments before they even get off the ground.

 

[Petrichor]

But MS is playing it save with the same core games over and over again, while sony tries to establish new IPs. They're just serving the halo, gears and forza guys, but that's just a small group of core gamers. MS is not really interested anymore into getting the whole.

Sony are still playing it safe with another semi-interactive adventure game from quantic and another action adventure third person shooter from naughty dog (who are also undoubtedly making an uncharted 4 on the side). How much money do you think Sony made from starhawk or twisted metal? Microsoft isn't interested in losing money on first party titles just to differentiate itself from the competition. It doesn't need to, now at least, but it will need to when the next generation rolls around.

 

[LuchaShaq]

Only if you ignore and all the new XBLA and core Kinect IPs they've been pushing. But that's par for the course around here, I suppose.




.

This drives me nuts.

I'd argue xbla/psn have significantly better lineups of exclusive games than the disc based games on their respective consoles. This is doubly true if you count timed exclusives like brain/shatter before they go to PC 3-9 months later.

I would take xbla or psn over every single full priced console exclusive this gen.

 

[Para bailar La Bomba]

Quote:
Why do we need a next gen Xbox in 2013?

Xbox 360 Will not support full range of XTV platform scenarios (e.g. 1080p video + Video Chat +HTML5 Apps)

•Lacking modern entertainment capabilities (e.g. Blu-ray, Native 3D output, 2x1080p in/out)

• Can’t run “always on”/low power states
• Can’t run multiplexed or concurrent applications and services

The use of language in this section is abysmal and does not match the tone and syntax used in large corporations.

 

[TheSeks]

jeff would in a single afternoon.

I dunno about that. He was right about the browser upgrade on PS3, even if it took forever for that to happen.

Dude does have some truth in what he's saying, no matter how outlandish it is for some of us.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

I dunno about that. He was right about the browser upgrade on PS3, even if it took forever for that to happen.

Dude does have some truth in what he's saying, no matter how outlandish it is for some of us.

Even a blind hen sometimes finds a grain of corn...

 

[dragonelite]

Only if you ignore and all the new XBLA and core Kinect IPs they've been pushing. But that's par for the course around here, I suppose.

Don't be so naive, 60 fps will likely never be the norm on consoles.

Then people shouldn't expect faster gameplay or other gameplay.
Yeah if they aren't going to push 60 fps a little.
Then i know that next will have more games wanting to be like movies.
And then i hope its everybody's thing because its not mine. A big reason why i hate the more cinematic stuff. I rather play Watch dogs a open world game where i can do what i want. Then watch a interactive movie like Heavy rain and Beyond because movies are better at being movies(Big IMO).

But yeah im feeling less and less with the paths games are going and finally understand what retro gaming people feel. Im getting older too

 

[iceatcs]

I think it could be real but too old by now. Lot of things happened in last 2 years like kinect fading, massive drop for wii, etc..

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Then people shouldn't expect faster gameplay or other gameplay.
Yeah if they aren't going to push 60 fps a little.
Then i know that next will have more games wanting to be like movies.

Not necessarily, it's just that consoles are closed systems so most developers usually choose to go with 30 fps and more detail. Maybe cloud gaming will change that, given time.

 

[grimshawish]

Document is funny.
Its obvious that someone has 'tried' but they've generally tried too hard in the wrong places. Lots of mumbo jumbo and then we get the most hilarious 'Business Model' slide

Doesn't even discuss main parts of Xbox's business model except in respect of the customer - e.g. a customer wrote this lol - e.g. its a pretty obvious fake.

 

[dragonelite]

Not necessarily, it's just that consoles are closed systems so most developers usually choose to go with 30 fps and more detail. Maybe cloud gaming will change that, given time.

Cloud gaming will be the death of core gaming and fast gameplay.
A cloud gaming based console will be a big no no.

If one thing closed system are perfect to engineer for 1080p and 60 fps.
We as consumer(people sharing my vision) should support devs choosing 60 fps.

And im still a big believer that what makes cod stand out against the rest is that its 60 fps.
Why do you guys think after bf3 and other more graphically games cod is still 60 fps im pretty sure they have the engineering power to drop the 60 fps and rival those 30 fps games with graphics.
Yet they dont do that.

 

[Black-Box]

so confirmed fake? it seems fake that they say Xbox 720, they would of said next xbox.

 

[Rahul]

Document is funny.
Its obvious that someone has 'tried' but they've generally tried too hard in the wrong places. Lots of mumbo jumbo and then we get the most hilarious 'Business Model' slide

Doesn't even discuss main parts of Xbox's business model except in respect of the customer - e.g. a customer wrote this lol - e.g. its a pretty obvious fake.

Mumbo jumbo in an internal Microsoft document increases the likelihood that it's real. No gamer would get this stuff right. All of the lingo is typical Microsoft internal lingo. It's one of the bigger pointers to this being a real presentation (from 2010).

 

[FunnyBunny]

So, is the XBOX 361 what gets announced tomorrow?

 

[i-Lo]

So is it or is it not fake?

To me certain aspects seem plausible though. That said total system power of only 120W seems more like the dream they'd want to achieve down the line with downsized XB3 like they did with X360. However, if they are indeed trying to make it so out of the gate, I shudder to think what GPU they will be putting in.

Sony are still playing it safe with another semi-interactive adventure game from quantic and another action adventure third person shooter from naughty dog (who are also undoubtedly making an uncharted 4 on the side). How much money do you think Sony made from starhawk or twisted metal? Microsoft isn't interested in losing money on first party titles just to differentiate itself from the competition. It doesn't need to, now at least, but it will need to when the next generation rolls around.

Compared to MS, Sony's attempt at establishing new IPs make it look tremendously bold.

And I'm sorry, correlating "playing it safe" with "Quantic" dream's game is laughable. There are no guarantees with a new IP. All they (BTS and HR) share is the genre. By that account, calling any new IP in an established genre a safe bet would not only be possible but also be very foolish.

 

[shinobi602]

so confirmed fake? it seems fake that they say Xbox 720, they would of said next xbox.

Would you, or anyone of us here actually have any semblance of what MS would internally call their next machine? No.

At least we know Activision and Bungie refer to it as the 720 in official court documents.

 

[chris0701]

At least it is a highly professional powerpoint file. lol

 

[gamergirly]

Well let's hope for microsofts sake that's its a fake. If somebody gets fired it'd real lol

 

[grimshawish]

Mumbo jumbo in an internal Microsoft document increases the likelihood that it's real. No gamer would get this stuff right. All of the lingo is typical Microsoft internal lingo. It's one of the bigger pointers to this being a real presentation (from 2010).

Oh I know - thats what I mean, its filled with stuff that isn't fully explained and is left as if its 'internally known'/to be explained in the presentation. But a number of areas, specifically the 'business model' section are hilariously under described and fail to mention large areas of the MS strategy or the complexities involved. Thats where it falls down.

 

[SimonM7]

Well let's hope for microsofts sake that's its a fake. If somebody gets fired it'd real lol

I don't think they'll fire Microsoft.

 

[Speedymanic]

But MS is playing it save with the same core games over and over again, while sony tries to establish new IPs. They're just serving the halo, gears and forza guys, but that's just a small group of core gamers. MS is not really interested anymore into getting the whole.

Except that's not really true.

If we look at which console has established more new IPs this gen, MS is the clear winner. Sure, some of those IPs aren't exclusive any more, but the fact remains that they have established and supported more new IPs this gen than Sony.

You also say they keep serving up Halos, Forza and Gears.

Sony have released 3 Uncharted's (four if you include the vita release), 3 motorstorm's (four if you include the vita release), 3 Infamous', 3 Killzone's (four with the upcoming vita release), six God of war titles (4 hd remakes and counting Ascension), 2 LBP (four if you include the vita release and karting, 2 hawks, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some.


MS have released 3 Gears (if you count next years release), 3 forza's (four if count open world release), 2 crackdowns, 2 alan wakes, 5 halo titles (six if you include 4, two of which were a new direction for the series, one was a remake) and...????

Sony is just as reliant on its 'core' title releases as MS. MS have also developed just as many new IPs this gen as Sony as well as supporting new third parties IPs.

 

[gamergirly]

I don't think they'll fire Microsoft.

I'm referring to the other incident in which an employer lost their job for the wii u Gamepad leak

Although thinking about it, they may have radically changed the plans by now

 

[Wolves Evolve]

Oh I know - thats what I mean, its filled with stuff that isn't fully explained and is left as if its 'internally known'/to be explained in the presentation. But a number of areas, specifically the 'business model' section are hilariously under described and fail to mention large areas of the MS strategy or the complexities involved. Thats where it falls down.

This is a discussion document, probably put together by 1-2 people over 1-2 weeks. It doesn't have a large amount of original text or art. But having seen similar discussion documents at a large games company, I think this feels genuine to my experience. I've seen worse developed for big products, closer to release. I would also date it at being written earlier than many here think, as far back as late 2010.

 

[i-Lo]

Except that's not really true.

If we look at which console has established more new IPs this gen, MS is the clear winner. Sure, some of those IPs aren't exclusive any more, but the fact remains that they have established and supported more new IPs this gen than Sony.

You also say they keep serving up Halos, Forza and Gears.

Sony have released 3 Uncharted's (four if you include the vita release), 3 motorstorm's (four if you include the vita release), 3 Infamous', 3 Killzone's (four with the upcoming vita release), six God of war titles (4 hd remakes and counting Ascension), 2 LBP (four if you include the vita release and karting, 2 hawks, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some.


MS have released 3 Gears (if you count next years release), 3 forza's (four if count open world release), 2 crackdowns, 2 alan wakes, 5 halo titles (six if you include 4, two of which were a new direction for the series, one was a remake) and...????

Sony is just as reliant on its 'core' title releases as MS. MS have also developed just as many new IPs this gen as Sony as well as supporting new third parties IPs.

3 inFAMOUS! I must have missed the third one!

 

[Vinterbird]

3 inFAMOUS! I must have missed the third one!

Festival of Blood, which would count as he includes 2 Alan Wakes, and American Nightmare is about the same amount of content / product as Festival of Blood.

 

[Para bailar La Bomba]

This is a discussion document, probably put together by 1-2 people over 1-2 weeks.

Lol...employee KPIs at MS must be really fucking low these days.

 

[Speedymanic]

3 inFAMOUS! I must have missed the third one!

Festival of Blood, which would count as he includes 2 Alan Wakes, and American Nightmare is about the same amount of content / product as Festival of Blood.

Yep. Both are standalone releases, so count as new entries in their respective series'.

 

[Manmademan]

Except that's not really true.

If we look at which console has established more new IPs this gen, MS is the clear winner. Sure, some of those IPs aren't exclusive any more, but the fact remains that they have established and supported more new IPs this gen than Sony.

You also say they keep serving up Halos, Forza and Gears.

Sony have released 3 Uncharted's (four if you include the vita release), 3 motorstorm's (four if you include the vita release), 3 Infamous', 3 Killzone's (four with the upcoming vita release), six God of war titles (4 hd remakes and counting Ascension), 2 LBP (four if you include the vita release and karting, 2 hawks, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some.

MS have released 3 Gears (if you count next years release), 3 forza's (four if count open world release), 2 crackdowns, 2 alan wakes, 5 halo titles (six if you include 4, two of which were a new direction for the series, one was a remake) and...????

Sony is just as reliant on its 'core' title releases as MS. MS have also developed just as many new IPs this gen as Sony as well as supporting new third parties IPs.

You left out quite a few.

Quantic Dream is basically a second party dev at this point- so Heavy Rain was a new IP, as is quantic dream's followup Beyond: Two Souls
Sony owns the IP (and assisted in development of) Demon's Souls
Heavenly Sword isn't remembered much these days, but was a big part of the PS3 launch
The Last of Us hasn't yet released, but will
The Last Guardian hasn't yet released, but will
LocoRoco and Patapon are PSP titles, so hard to quantify whether they count as "this gen" for you
Gravity Rush is an awesome vita title
Sports Champions is one of the only reasons worth owning a move
MAG was an interesting experiment in multiplayer gaming, but not my cup of tea
Unit 13 is a followup by the same studio that created MAG..yet to be released but will soon

and even with that I'm sure I'm forgetting a few things that might be PSN exclusive, as well as first party series that existed during the PS2 era like Gran Turismo, Sly Cooper, and SOCOM.
The quality and sales figures vs microsoft's first and second party efforts might be up for debate, but Sony has easily twice the volume.

 

[Miles X]

Genuine Microsoft document confirmed.

Hahaha, thanks for making me laugh!

OT: I'm gonna believe this is real, just because it's more fun that way.

 

[soul creator]

lol

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

You left out quite a few.

Not counting portable games (since Microsoft doesn't compete in that segment), they've introduced approximately the same number of new retail, non-Move/Kinect IPs this generation. I did a breakdown in another thread several weeks ago and Sony is ahead by maybe 2 or 3 IPs. The difference is Microsoft has introduced most of theirs earlier in the generation, while Sony has been more even. That said, Microsoft's curve is normal for the industry, most publishers function that way.

 

[AngryMoth]

The article referenced at the end of theverge piece seems to have almost certainly seen the same document, except it was posted a month ago, before smartglass was announced. http://nukezilla.com/2012/05/04/exclusive-next-xbox-to-have-blu-ray-support-augmented-reality-glasses/

Apparently the website is unreliable but this seems to add a lot of credibility to the source. Correct me if I'm missing something obvious here.

edit: oops I see this has been mentioned a few times already, sorry

 

[Speedymanic]

You left out quite a few.

Quantic Dream is basically a second party dev at this point- so Heavy Rain was a new IP, as is quantic dream's followup Beyond: Two Souls
Sony owns the IP (and assisted in development of) Demon's Souls
Heavenly Sword isn't remembered much these days, but was a big part of the PS3 launch
The Last of Us hasn't yet released, but will
The Last Guardian hasn't yet released, but will
LocoRoco and Patapon are PSP titles, so hard to quantify whether they count as "this gen" for you
Gravity Rush is an awesome vita title
Sports Champions is one of the only reasons worth owning a move
MAG was an interesting experiment in multiplayer gaming, but not my cup of tea
Unit 13 is a followup by the same studio that created MAG..yet to be released but will soon

and even with that I'm sure I'm forgetting a few things that might be PSN exclusive.
The quality and sales figures vs microsoft's first and second party efforts might be up for debate, but Sony has easily twice the volume.

No, factor in XBLA and Kinect titles and it's apparent to most that MS have supported and developed more new IPs.

I chose not to list single entries in new IPs as I didn't have all day and I didn't want it to descend into a list war. My point was that both companies are heavily reliant on their core IPs, so only accusing MS of constantly releasing the same IPs is nonsensical.

 

[Fredrik]

While I believe this is fake, I don't think their actual plans are all that different. Kinect will play a large role in them, no doubt about it.

I think Kinect will be a side quest for MS, I just can't see them having it as a main thing for the sequel to the only pure and super successful hardcore gaming console out there.

 

[Jadedx]

lol

Throw some of that money this way.

 

[SwimmingwithChickenz]

Haven't read over everything, but does this list teraflop performance? How well will this run unreal engine 4? Four to six times the performance of xbox 360 doesn't exactly get me excited.

 

[CLEEK]

No, factor in XBLA and Kinect titles and it's apparent to most that MS have supported and developed more new IPs.

That's only if you chose to ignore all the Sony exclusive IPs on PSN. Why would you ignore them? Because they debunk your argument that MS have been host to more new IPs than Sony this gen, when they patently haven't. Certainly not at retail, and not at DD either.

I don't know why youre claiming Halo and Forza are new IPs, as they debuted last gen. So that leaves Crackdown (not first or second party, incidentally), Gears, Alan Wake... ???

 

[dragonelite]

No, factor in XBLA and Kinect titles and it's apparent to most that MS have supported and developed more new IPs.

I chose not to list single entries in new IPs as I didn't have all day and I didn't want it to descend into a list war. My point was that both companies are heavily reliant on their core IPs, so only accusing MS of constantly releasing the same IPs is nonsensical.

Im with this sony conference did a bit better then microsoft for me.
But the last of us feels to me like a side way chapter of uncharted kinda like ODST played with a open world concept and derived from Halo 3. And the new god of war im asking is it really necesary why not make a new ip from it the same with the Forza Horizon.

The Forza:Horizon name has now collided with the forza franchise.
The forza franchise already supports the Sim lovers and casual racers because of the assist system. Now when the name forza falls people need to think are we talking about a new sim racer or the arcade racer. Should have used PGR for forza Horizon the mini games in PGR 4 i played sounds perfect for it. And the game fits into the ip jacket.

 

[onQ123]

Throw some of that money this way.

wouldn't that make you feel a little dirty?

 

[mujun]

You left out quite a few.

Quantic Dream is basically a second party dev at this point- so Heavy Rain was a new IP, as is quantic dream's followup Beyond: Two Souls
Sony owns the IP (and assisted in development of) Demon's Souls
Heavenly Sword isn't remembered much these days, but was a big part of the PS3 launch
The Last of Us hasn't yet released, but will
The Last Guardian hasn't yet released, but will
LocoRoco and Patapon are PSP titles, so hard to quantify whether they count as "this gen" for you
Gravity Rush is an awesome vita title
Sports Champions is one of the only reasons worth owning a move
MAG was an interesting experiment in multiplayer gaming, but not my cup of tea
Unit 13 is a followup by the same studio that created MAG..yet to be released but will soon

and even with that I'm sure I'm forgetting a few things that might be PSN exclusive, as well as first party series that existed during the PS2 era like Gran Turismo, Sly Cooper, and SOCOM.
The quality and sales figures vs microsoft's first and second party efforts might be up for debate, but Sony has easily twice the volume.

You didn't add Banjo, Viva to the 360 list? Convenient?

Not that I am debating the fact the retail-wise the PS3 wins.

 

[theBishop]

Cloud gaming will be the death of core gaming and fast gameplay.
A cloud gaming based console will be a big no no.

If one thing closed system are perfect to engineer for 1080p and 60 fps.
We as consumer(people sharing my vision) should support devs choosing 60 fps.

And im still a big believer that what makes cod stand out against the rest is that its 60 fps.
Why do you guys think after bf3 and other more graphically games cod is still 60 fps im pretty sure they have the engineering power to drop the 60 fps and rival those 30 fps games with graphics.
Yet they dont do that.

Where are you getting these conclusions? Cloud-rendering dramatically lowers the entry cost for core gaming. You'll be able to send a Facebook invite to anyone to play any game and they don't have to buy anything to join. People who would never spend $300 on a console can play the most graphically demanding games within minutes.

Can you explain how this is not a major breakthrough?

And I think your comment about closed platforms and 60fps is lunacy. There's total incentive for developers of cloud games to push technology as far as it can go. Developers will want their games to stand out. Unlike current models, high tech requirements don't diminish the total potential sell-through.

 

[Jadedx]

wouldn't that make you feel a little dirty?

I'd get over it.

 

[Kung Fu Grip]

List wars.

OT. This document screams MS too much to be fake. In that case, thank god im a sony fan.

 

[JustProgress]

If this were real we'd be have C&D letters going out. I mean, if this is true, their entire next gen strategy just leaked.

 

[onQ123]

I'd get over it.

lol

 

[Speedymanic]

That's only if you chose to ignore all the Sony exclusive IPs on PSN. Why would you ignore them? Because they debunk your argument that MS have been host to more new IPs than Sony this gen, when they patently haven't. Certainly not at retail, and not at DD either.

I don't know why youre claiming Halo and Forza are new IPs, as they debuted last gen. So that leaves Crackdown (not first or second party, incidentally), Gears, Alan Wake... ???

what about my post says I'm ignoring them? I did factor them in and MS still comes out ahead.

I didn't claim those were new IP. I was comparing both companies core IPs and how much they rely on them/how many entries they've released in those IPs. I thought I made that very clear, guess I was wrong.

 

[ironcreed]

NOOOOO MY DIARY

LOL