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[Killjoy-NL]

Asylum sold ~9.5 million. Arkham City sold ~12.5 million copies. Knight sold ~7 million. In no way were any of those games not considered hugely successful, critically or commercially.

Again, the issue was being forced by upper management at WB to make something they had no experience making.

SS:KTJL was clearly a case of the executive team setting a goal for Rocksteady that they had no chance of meeting. They set them up for failure. If that team is then blamed for the failure and laid off, and the executive team doesn't take any responsibility for the failure, that's a shitty situation.

That's a shitty move from the execs then.

But I don't see a reason to get emotional.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

That's a shitty move from the execs then.

But I don't see a reason to get emotional.

Yes, that is the point that is being made.

Not sure what you're going on about with emotions. Google is a valuable resource though, if you don't know something.

 

[Punished Miku]

SS:KTJL was clearly a case of the executive team setting a goal for Rocksteady that they had no chance of meeting. They set them up for failure. If that team is then blamed for the failure and laid off, and the executive team doesn't take any responsibility for the failure, that's a shitty situation.

I still don't get why it's so impossible. Basically asked to make Prototype / inFamous with 4 player co-op, and guns. That's it. Then make a bunch of costumes and shit for drops later.

Do developers just kind of suck ass now or something? I really don't get what is so crippling about this GAAS thing.

 

[DeepEnigma]

After what happened with Tales of Kanzera recently, both are two sides of the same coin. Deserve each other forevermore.

Explain.

 

[balls of snow]

Explain.

Oh no a black man wanted to make a game about dealing with the death of his father. The horror. The dei boogeyman is attached to the project though. Cant have that.

 

[feynoob]

Underperform and get canned.

Goes for any studio. Same as why Zipper, Evolution and London Studios got closed.

I think people should seperate emotion from business.

The management created this mess. They shouldn't have went with live service mode.

 

[rm082e]

I still don't get why it's so impossible. Basically asked to make Prototype / inFamous with 4 player co-op, and guns. That's it. Then make a bunch of costumes and shit for drops later.

Do developers just kind of suck ass now or something? I really don't get what is so crippling about this GAAS thing.

By your definition, they succeeded then because that's what they made. But success in the GAAS market isn't just checking off boxes on a requirement list. There's an impossible-to-describe element of excitement that each successful GAAS game has, and it's different from one game to the next. Saying "come up with a wildly successful hook for your game" is easy to say, but almost impossible to do.

It really comes down to the expectations of the executive management vs. the performance of these games. The execs are expecting the next Fortnite, GTA Online, or Helldivers. They expect a juggernaut title that will bring in dump trucks of money. The reality is most of the games that try this GAAS model don't catch on with the audience, even if they check all the boxes on the list of requirements.

 

[Punished Miku]

By your definition, they succeeded then because that's what they made. But success in the GAAS market isn't just checking off boxes on a requirement list. There's an impossible-to-describe element of excitement that each successful GAAS game has, and it's different from one game to the next. Saying "come up with a wildly successful hook for your game" is easy to say, but almost impossible to do.

It really comes down to the expectations of the executive management vs. the performance of these games. The execs are expecting the next Fortnite, GTA Online, or Helldivers. They expect a juggernaut title that will bring in dump trucks of money. The reality is most of the games that try this GAAS model don't catch on with the audience, even if they check all the boxes on the list of requirements.

That's a fair point. I just don't get why it takes that long to develop this. The sales outcome is out of their control to some extent, but it sounds like they knew they were failing at developing any unique hooks when they were internally questioning why Captain Boomerang has a gun.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Yes, that is the point that is being made.

Not sure what you're going on about with emotions. Google is a valuable resource though, if you don't know something.

This isn't the first thread about studio closures where people whine about the state of the industry.

 

[Stuart360]

Gutted if true. Yes Suicide Squad sucked, but by all accounts it was forced onto them.
No studio is safe though in the current climate it seems.
End of an era.

 

[SF Kosmo]

The suits that forced the live service model on them need to be canned first.

 

[Majormaxxx]

Rest in pieces

 

[rm082e]

This isn't the first thread about studio closures where people whine about the state of the industry.

Nor will it be the last. We're seeing talented people mismanaged by executives who don't understand the industry. When the mismanagement leads to failed products, the talented people are blamed and laid off. The executives should be laid off for their mismanagement, but they rarely are.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Oh no a black man wanted to make a game about dealing with the death of his father. The horror. The dei boogeyman is attached to the project though. Cant have that.

Is this the guy calling everyone racist because they have their own principals?

And a black man and Kenyan, why does he need a DEI group for "sensitivities" about his own lived experiences? Seems he should have been able to skip that line outright.

Conform, comrades.

Oh, and this....

Oh wait... he is that DEI group. Oopsies.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Nor will it be the last. We're seeing talented people mismanaged by executives who don't understand the industry. When the mismanagement leads to failed products, the talented people are blamed and laid off. The executives should be laid off for their mismangement.

Yeah, it sucks, but happens all the time in any field in all of history.

Times are changing, goes for the gaming industry as well and those that can't adapt, get left behind or laid off.

It's how life works in general. That's why I said people seperate emotions from business, because life doesn't care about emotions.

Doesn't mean that it doesn't suck for those affected, but what can you do about it?

 

[rm082e]

Doesn't mean that it doesn't suck for those affected, but what can you do about it?

Commiserate with people who share your viewpoint and frustration, maybe on an internet forum...

 

[DragoonWalker]

Even if this is a disreputable source, doesn't take a genius to see this outcome. Little guy pays for the man's mistakes. Tell me a new story.

Yeah real Ship of Theseus vibes here.

To be honest that's most game companies that we grew up with and are still around. Bioware, Volition (RIP), dare I even say Naughty Dog. The industry is a volatile one, we're in the gig economy era, and talent is often a revolving door. The more important thing is to maintain the company culture after talent comes and goes, which western devs are particularly bad at.

They had a blueprint for success and threw it all away.

People are thirsty af for another batman arkham game.

This is destructive path. You want Batman games from them until the end of time? The well will run dry. They were talented enough to come up with game changing mechanics in the first game because they took a risk where no one else did. What they should have done alternate with new IP they want to do so they can keep evolving forward. Suicide Squad was forced on them. Despite what many of you think creativity and innovation are lifeblood of video games.

 

[TheKratos]

How about sales? You can make the best game in the world, but if people don't care about it, you failed at your job.

I think you have different devs mixed up. Rocksteady's Arkham games were all commercial and critical succes.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Commiserate with people who share your viewpoint and frustration, maybe on an internet forum...

Or if people really cared, they would've supported Rocksteady by buying Suicide Squad and cutting em some slack, knowing it was their first attempt at Gaas and they were forced to do it.

But since people have a hate-boner for Gaas, they refused to do so and it got Rocksteady closed.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Jason just wrote an article that said the complete opposite. The studio is very small by todays standard and they fucked up only because of WB executive meddling. The execs have no case to shut them down unless they want to fire themselves as well.

I was just about to point this out, I didn't read the article itself but read some key bullet points. One specifically mentioned how Sweet Baby wasn't as invasive and controlling at all. Nor was WB. All of its failures were because of failed management.

Which, honestly, as much as people hate Sweet Baby, they're a consultant agency. Whether it's up to the publisher or the developer themselves to want to work with them, their job is to provide services to the title. The studio can turn stuff away as much as they want, or accept it. They just specialize in all of the DEI stuff.

The article stated that Rocksteady would NOT be closing. Which, doesn't necessarily guarantee anything. I just don't know how legit "theparkplace.com" is, so I'm going to take this with a grain of salt.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I think you have different devs mixed up. Rocksteady's Arkham games were all commercial and critical succes.

Never forget,

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

Who would've thought Arkham Knights would be the "good" current-gen game?

 

[reektann]

Im glad I decided not to go to that interview there now …

 

[Loomy]

To be fair. David Zaslav will sell his family to make WBD profitable. While this is an unsubstantiated rumour, it also wouldn't be out of character for him. He's already been talking about how it cost them $200m.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

Multiple people on this board called it.

 

[ManaByte]

That is a shit source

It’s a plague here now. People using the worst culture war bullshit sources as OPs.

 

[balls of snow]

Is this the guy calling everyone racist because they have their own principals?

And a black man and Kenyan, why does he need a DEI group for "sensitivities" about his own lived experiences? Seems he should have been able to skip that line outright.

Conform, comrades.

Oh, and this....


Oh wait... he is that DEI group. Oopsies.

Is that what you want? I relate to the man because I lost my father to kidney failure fairly recently and his nerve wracking speech when he introduced his game last year was inspired because I know exactly how he felt. Could not give a fuck about what he said prior or how sbi is 'corrupting' the game industry.

He earned that purchase from me because he actually could elicit something profoundly intagibly human. And if the trolls could actually look past the culture war bs and gain some humility then they could relate to it too.

Go after the big corpos all you want just because of how disingenuous they are, maybe leave out the small studios that put out their very first game.

 

[MrMephistoX]

I just knew WB exec’s key takeaway was going to be that consumers no longer want Rocksteady’s games or Arkham not that it was a mistake to turn a beloved single player series into GAAS LIVE service nonsense: it reeks of a lack of self awareness and failure upwards on the corporate ladder.

And on the other hand we have the usual crowd blaming Suicide Squad’s failure on death by wokeness.

 

[mitch1971]

I'm a consumer and I don't get emotional over these things.
If you want to keep your job, you have to meet your employer's criteria.

Just common sense.

How can you not have some kind of emotion for a product. You are attracted to it or not, that's an emotional response. Execs read the landscape and think of the money aspect based on what would excite the audience.

Also, the employees followed orders and now could loose that job anyway.

 

[Sushi_Combo]

These companies learning the hard way that Infinite growth doesn't work.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Is that what you want? I relate to the man because I lost my father to kidney failure fairly recently and his nerve wracking speech when he introduced his game last year was inspired because I know exactly how he felt. Could not give a fuck about what he said prior or how sbi is 'corrupting' the game industry.

He earned that purchase from me because he actually could elicit something profoundly intagibly human. And if the trolls could actually look past the culture war bs and gain some humility then they could relate to it too.

Go after the big corpos all you want just because of how disingenuous they are, maybe leave out the small studios that put out their very first game.

I lost my father too when I was a very young man. Appeals to emotion fall flat when I can see the forest through the trees.

For you, that is fine. For others, they have a right to not support what they see as a cancer to the industry. Nobody is "racist" for it, and no amount of pretend victimhood currency gaslighting will change that.

Pendulums doth swing. Everyone forgets that, which is why ones should be more humble in life.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

How can you not have some kind of emotion for a product. You are attracted to it or not, that's an emotional response. Execs read the landscape and think of the money aspect based on what would excite the audience.

Also, the employees followed orders and now could loose that job anyway.

Yeah, a lot is based on emotion. So was not buying the game because it was Gaas and had that Baby Inc or whatever involved.

That's why I also made this comment, which would actually be a good discussion to have:

Or if people really cared, they would've supported Rocksteady by buying Suicide Squad and cutting em some slack, knowing it was their first attempt at Gaas and they were forced to do it.

But since people have a hate-boner for Gaas, they refused to do so and it got Rocksteady closed.

 

[phant0m]

Why is so hard to give a greenlight for a sp batman game for them?

i thought RS said they wanted to do something non-Batman after Arkham Knight.

Shame it look them 9 years to deliver that flop.

 

[Morrie’s wig shop]

Who green lit it? Who?
Where’s the name of the suits who told them to make this.

It’s time to start calling out these fools by name..

 

[AzekZero]

I've shifted my opinion of WB Games back towards neutral based on the Jason Schreier behind the scenes article.

If Schreier's right, this was more of a Bioware situation where the blame should actually go towards the Rocksteady leadership.

 

[SplunkyMunkey]

Would be nice if Sony offered to buy rocksteady expecially when they have made batman they can assist insomniac of making great single player games from venom to other hero games.

 

[BlackTron]

The execs have no case to shut them down unless they want to fire themselves as well.

Does that make a difference?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Would be nice if Sony offered to buy rocksteady expecially when they have made batman they can assist insomniac of making great single player games from venom to other hero games.

I think a lot of that key talent that did Batman is already gone. Not worth it, at all.

 

[XXL]

Jason just wrote an article that said the complete opposite. The studio is very small by todays standard and they fucked up only because of WB executive meddling. The execs have no case to shut them down unless they want to fire themselves as well.

The underlying cause of the issue with leadership was the studio was being forced to make a game in this genre/model that they had zero experience in. That's the whole reason this all fell apart and what led to the ultimate disaster at last year's SoP reveal, and then the predictably horrible launch reception.

Bean counters on the C-suite floor meddling, with no actual experience or subject matter knowledge. And hence the shitty, predictable result.

Last I heard Rocksteady chose to make it a live service game themselves.

Rocksteady Was Behind the Decision to Make Suicide Squad Live-Service

The plot thickens on Rocksteady's controversial live service game, as it was supposedly the studio's call to make Suicide Squad a part of the genre.

gamerant.com

Is there anything suggesting the opposite?

 

[Roman Empire]

Trash source. Don't doubt Warner is dumb enough but with the current industry trend Rocksteady should be in the chopping block.

 

[diffusionx]

Obviously this was inevitable. It’s just annoying to see publishers force devs to make a bunch of bullshit they aren’t good at and don’t know how to make, and then shut them down when the game is terrible. Same thing happened to Arkane. I know old Rocksteady is gone and even if they wanted to make a SP game it wouldn’t be the same company making it but it’s like… come on. They could have released 2 great SP games in the time it took them to make one abhorrent gaashit.

 

[Sanepar]

Sorry it was duplicated

 

[Clear]

Which, honestly, as much as people hate Sweet Baby, they're a consultant agency. Whether it's up to the publisher or the developer themselves to want to work with them, their job is to provide services to the title. The studio can turn stuff away as much as they want, or accept it. They just specialize in all of the DEI stuff.

Its almost guaranteed to be the publisher who's responsible for their involvement. Hiring writers isn't difficult or expensive, and very likely the consultancy route is going to cost more.

It'd be very foolish I think not to draw comparisons with "sensitivity reader" in literary publishing. These I cannot imagine are actually wanted by writers - when your gig is writing for a living who on Earth would welcome editorial interference on what amounts to morality in content? - but are mandated top-down for whatever reason.

 

[lughnasadh123]

And a black man and Kenyan, why does he need a DEI group for "sensitivities" about his own lived experiences? Seems he should have been able to skip that line outright.

If he believes in what they have to offer as a consultancy agency on how it could benefit his game, why wouldn't he. Basically bringing in people to help build on the foundation of his own story to make it fit better into what it is.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Its almost guaranteed to be the publisher who's responsible for their involvement. Hiring writers isn't difficult or expensive, and very likely the consultancy route is going to cost more.

It'd be very foolish I think not to draw comparisons with "sensitivity reader" in literary publishing. These I cannot imagine are actually wanted by writers - when your gig is writing for a living who on Earth would welcome editorial interference on what amounts to morality in content? - but are mandated top-down for whatever reason.

In this situation, it is most certainly the publisher. I was just saying in general.

 

[Badlucktroll]

 

[DeepEnigma]

If he believes in what they have to offer as a consultancy agency on how it could benefit his game, why wouldn't he. Basically bringing in people to help build on the foundation of his own story to make it fit better into what it is.

It's already been revealed. He is that group.


Explains the "racism" currency.

 

[FunkMiller]

Frankly, good. Far better for the those remaining with actual talent to get out from under Zaslav.

 

[realcool]

 

[YCoCg]

More like RockUNsteady *badum tsch*