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[shuri]

Do we take into account that the Mechanicum has found failures starting to emerge in the Golden Throne they can't even fix as of the 5th Edition?

Exactly! And from memory the throne is a giant communication beacon that links everything in the galaxy together. Spaceships use it to navigate and communicate, entire planets too, etc etc.

 

[R2D4]

If the Death Star can destroy planets can't it just go planet to planet blowing shit up? I'm sure the Empire can churn out a bunch of them as well.

 

[Alucrid]

I don't think the Imperium of Man knows how to clone anything. If they could clone Space Marines I don't see why it would be a problem, though they can only get so much raw genetic material so quickly from the existing ones.

Isn't the only thing keeping them from expanding past 1000 marines the whole Horus Heresy?

 

[AceBandage]

If the Death Star can destroy planets can't it just go planet to planet blowing shit up? I'm sure the Empire can churn out a bunch of them as well.

1. The Death Star is SLOW AS HELL. The Imperium would be able to take it out pretty quick.

2. It took them years (decades) just to make one, no way they can just "churn then out".

 

[DUFFMCWALIN]

The Imperium from Warhammer 40k would destroy the Empire so fast even though they can not devote all of their forces to the battle because all of their enemies. If they could the Empire would lose the war in only a few battles.

Spoiler

also warhammer 40k> star wars

 

[DrForester]

1. The Death Star is SLOW AS HELL. The Imperium would be able to take it out pretty quick.

2. It took them years (decades) just to make one, no way they can just "churn then out".

What's slow in Star Wars? Takes a week to get across the Galaxy?

 

[R2D4]

1. The Death Star is SLOW AS HELL. The Imperium would be able to take it out pretty quick.

2. It took them years (decades) just to make one, no way they can just "churn then out".

It didn't take decades between the first and the second one.

 

[DUFFMCWALIN]

The side that has Caiphas Cain.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

 

[TacticalFox88]

What's slow in Star Wars? Takes a week to get across the Galaxy?

A day really. They have extremely advanced hyperspace technology.

 

[LaserBuddha]

Isn't the only thing keeping them from expanding past 1000 marines the whole Horus Heresy?

Yes, they have rules in place limiting the size of Chapters, to keep them from being able to overthrow the Imperium like Horus tried to do. Of course not all Chapters follow this rule but they don't get too huge.

I mean, one Company of Ultramarines (100 dudes), pretty much single-handedly put down a Tyranid invasion of one of their homeworlds. If you want some context of what that Tyranid invasion was like, imagine that scene in Starship Troopers where there were A LOT of bugs swarming that outpost, then expand that to an entire planet. 10,000 well placed Space Marines, under the right circumstances, could threaten the entire Imperium. Back before the Horus Heresy, they had Legions of 10,000 marines instead of Chapters of 1,000.

 

[DrForester]

It didn't take decades between the first and the second one.

2nd one was well into production when the first was destroyed, wasn't it?

 

[AceBandage]

What's slow in Star Wars? Takes a week to get across the Galaxy?

It took forever for the Death Star just to get from behind a moon so it could fire at Endor.

 

[LaserBuddha]

Exactly! And from memory the throne is a giant communication beacon that links everything in the galaxy together. Spaceships use it to navigate and communicate, entire planets too, etc etc.

Yeah, the Emperor spent a long time up until his death personally constructing the Golden Throne, which is likely why no one can do anything to fix it despite it being the most urgent issue in the galaxy for them.

That beacon is actually the emperor himself. It's called the Astronomicon. He built the Throne expressly to broadcast this beacon, but I guess he thought he'd be alive for it. This psychic presence is pretty much the only thing left of the Emperor, as his body is pretty much a dead husk. Whether he's actually alive or dead is an abstract subject.

The Astronomican basically works like a lighthouse. Anywhere in the Galaxy, an astropath (psyker) on a ship can tell what direction Terra is in and use that to figure out where they are.

Without the Astronomicon, almost all of humanity would be immediately isolated to whatever planet they are on, and eventually would be slaughtered or enslaved by other species. Without it, they can't navigate the Warp, and then it would take a realistic amount of time to travel from planet to planet, thousands of years.

 

[CF_Fighter]

Don't forget that if the Holy Emperor, Blessed be His Name, is killed then Chaos would be wholly unleashed against everyone. Palpatine would fall to them faster than any of the Primarchs.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

It took forever for the Death Star just to get from behind a moon so it could fire at Endor.

"forever" = 15 minutes.

think about that.

after it got into orbit, that entire sequence took 15 minutes.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Can't beat the Imperium of Man, they are so powerful it is crazy. Everything in 40k is cranked up to 11.

 

[KamenSenshi]

Any ground battle would be basically 40k destroying Star Wars. Space battles are a better jumping off point as Star Wars would need any advantage they could get. Ship to ship would be an ok match until 40k manages to get some Marines aboard a few Star Cruisers.

 

[datruth29]

The thing that makes this fight interesting is the other races in the Warhammer Universe. I would imagine that the Orks would also be in the mix, fighting both the Empire and the Imperium, because...well....that's just what they do :lol

But then there's other things, like the Empire trying to establish fronts on planets....only to be destroyed by an awakened Necron force, or an invading Tyranid fleet. I would imagine that they would be going on a planet destroying binge after realizing that colonization of these planets are futile.

 

[R2D4]

2nd one was well into production when the first was destroyed, wasn't it?

I doubt the full weight of the Empire was put behind the production. The destruction of the first Death Star was a complete surprise. If they had too I'm sure they could build them much faster if there was a serious threat to the Empire.

 

[pieatorium]

Isn't this scenario just a rehash of the Gothic war? single planet oneshotting ship included. Iperium won that one by the way.

 

[BattleMonkey]

I doubt the full weight of the Empire was put behind the production. The destruction of the first Death Star was a complete surprise. If they had too I'm sure they could build them much faster if there was a serious threat to the Empire.

It would be more advantageous for the Empire to instead of building more Death Stars, to just build fleets of star destroyers.

Isn't this scenario just a rehash of the Gothic war? single planet oneshotting ship included. Iperium won that one by the way.

Eh? The scenario in the OP is quite different from the Gothic War

 

[JayDubya]

I'm rusty on 40k though I've RP'd in it a little bit...

From what I understand, though, you've made things pretty hard on Palps by making him want to take the throne.

My first thought on seeing the thread title was:

1) Take Imperial Star Destroyer
2) Remove hyperspace safety inhibitor
3) Plot coordinates for location of God Emperor.
4) Boom.
5) Imperium of Man can no longer use their ships. Empire can move unfettered. Empire wins.

Since that is off the table...


Stormtroopers would be outclassed by Guardsmen.

Dark Troopers MIGHT be a match for Space Marines, but Space Marines are rather, um, legion and Dark Troopers were never mass produced. Granted, this is a world where the Empire won Yavin, so that'd make things play out differently I suppose.

Sith and Dark Jedi strike me as more powerful than Psychers on average, though... but hard to say.

It's hard to say in general... Everything in 40k is over the top and extreme.

 

[siddx]

I never understood the size argument. How big your spaceship is means next to nothing. Firepower, overall numbers, and training is far more important.
Jesus fuck why am I getting dragged into yet another one of these....

I thought ST would have won the last one, simply because the power figures of Star Wars weapons didn't add up. Can one shot a borg but can't blow up a meteor? While a Trek vessel can't penetrate a Star Detroyers hull and yet can vaporize entire cities with a single phaser blast? Whatever uber dork came up with the power output numbers was high off the fumes from his own bullshit. But thats the old thread....

Don't know much about the Warhammer universe but from everything I've seen, it would be a massacre. Jedi and stormtroppers in plastic helmets laying dead all over the universe.

 

[R2D4]

It would be more advantageous for the Empire to instead of building more Death Stars, to just build fleets of star destroyers.

Or put the Death Star gun on a Super Star Destroyer.

 

[LaserBuddha]

I doubt the full weight of the Empire was put behind the production. The destruction of the first Death Star was a complete surprise. If they had too I'm sure they could build them much faster if there was a serious threat to the Empire.

Imagine if they hadn't wasted so much time and resources to build that COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY AND USELESS solid sphere of crap around the Death Stars. They could have whooped ass.

I mean, unless you think a planet-destroying weapon is something you need to build an artificial planet around, full of millions of people that have nothing to do with the weapon part. I wonder what the brochures looked like.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

any reason why the Empire couldn't do gurrella-style hit and run attacks with Star Destroyers?

and by "hit and run" I mean "destroy the fucking planet and hyperspace jump out" over and over again until the Imperium surrendered?

 

[LaserBuddha]

Or put the Death Star gun on a Super Star Destroyer.

I think the Eclipse had one.

BTW, most large ships in 40k can completely destroy the surface of an entire planet by themselves, which is just as effective as blowing it up.

 

[BattleMonkey]

any reason why the Empire couldn't do gurrella-style hit and run attacks with Star Destroyers?

and by "hit and run" I mean "destroy the fucking planet and hyperspace jump out" over and over again until the Imperium surrendered?

I'm sure, but to what advantage? The Imperium of Man is pretty lax on not giving a damn about it's people and the Golden Throne on Terra is what the Empire wants in the OP scenario.

 

[AceBandage]

any reason why the Empire couldn't do gurrella-style hit and run attacks with Star Destroyers?

and by "hit and run" I mean "destroy the fucking planet and hyperspace jump out" over and over again until the Imperium surrendered?

Star Destroyers can't use HS that close to planets, can they?

 

[R2D4]

I think the Eclipse had one.

BTW, most large ships in 40k can completely destroy the surface of an entire planet by themselves, which is just as effective as blowing it up.

Oh well. I don't know anything about 40K.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

I really don't think there is any universe that's really fucking with Warhammer 40K to be honest.

 

[Alucrid]

I'm rusty on 40k though I've RP'd in it a little bit...

From what I understand, though, you've made things pretty hard on Palps by making him want to take the throne.

My first thought on seeing the thread title was:

1) Take Imperial Star Destroyer
2) Remove hyperspace safety inhibitor
3) Plot coordinates for location of God Emperor.
4) Boom.
5) Imperium of Man can no longer use their ships. Empire can move unfettered. Empire wins.

Rules say they can't touch the Golden Throne.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Star Destroyers can't use HS that close to planets, can they?

Hyperspace drives have safety feature that prevents them from operating within gravity wells

 

[LaserBuddha]

I really don't think there is any universe that's really fucking with Warhammer 40K to be honest.

.


I'm biased, but this is completely true.

 

[shuri]

Couldn't the Emperor use the Force to disable the Emperor of men from far away?

 

[Meteorain]

I think a lot of misconceptions about the 40k Universe seem to be flying about.

let's not forget that the Empire is using state of the art technology that they can fix.. The Warhammer 40k universe is based on old centuries old spaceships that barely hold together.. they've been at war for so long they dont remember how to fix their own technology and survive on scavenging. Losing a spaceship is hugeeee drama for them.

The Empire has complete air superiority. Also it doesnt help that the space marines are freaked out by anything 'psychic' .. The dark jedis would fuck with them hardcore. Most Space Marines are mostly dumb meatheads after all.

Those century old spaceships are still some of the most technologically advanced ships around. They are effective and hence kept in use. A lot of them have however been replaced with newer and better models. On this note, whilst losing a ship is a big deal, it's not an irrecoverable one. I think you underestimate how much technology the current Imperium understands. Very few technologies are beyond them. Not really seeing how the Empire has complete air superiority there...

All Space Marines are highly capable soldiers. They aren't idiots, in fact they are far from it. All relevant knowledge is pumped into their brains as Aspirants, and this includes a massive catalogue of strategies and what not. They are bred to know that the "dark arts" are bad, and despise it, but they do not fear it. Space Marines do not know fear.

Also, the big problem with Space Marine is equipment.. they have re-use old equipment all the time, some of the power armors are thousand years old and they have Technicians (I forgot their official name) doing voodoo on them so that the suits still work.

Let's not forget that Space Marines are a finite resource. It takes a LOOONNNG time to become a space marine, tons of enhancements are required too, and one of the main enhancement that they get is a special heart that was modified to support the various cyborg enhancements and implants, and that heart is installed on a space marine recruit before getting those upgrades. From memory its called Lieman's heart, or something, and they were cloned from one of the first legendary space marine. And from memory it takes a long time to create a space marine from start to finish, something like 20-40 years..

ANYHOW

Those hearts cannot be reproduced anymore, and the warhammer clerics have to pull them out of dead space marines to re-implant them on new recruits.. It's kind of fucked up really, and If the Empire blows up a planet full of space marines, that's a lot of replacement hearts gone forever.

The empire can clone an infinite number of troopers. And what's stopping them from cloning space marines..

In the long run, the space marines are fucked.

Yes a lot of their equipment is old but their workings are based on mechanics and science. Not imperial voodoo. They are just superstitious that way about the "Machine God".

As for creating a Space Marine....it doesn't take 20-40 years. In fact, it takes less than 5. Around 2-3 I believe....and that includes training.

Now, these Space Marine hearts which I believe you mean Gene-seeds aren't finite in number. It's just that number of SM's allowed per chapter is limited by their war codes (blame that twat Robute Guillaman). They are only allowed 1000 per chapter, but the Black Templars have over 6000 at a given time.

I'm rusty on 40k though I've RP'd in it a little bit...

From what I understand, though, you've made things pretty hard on Palps by making him want to take the throne.

My first thought on seeing the thread title was:

1) Take Imperial Star Destroyer
2) Remove hyperspace safety inhibitor
3) Plot coordinates for location of God Emperor.
4) Boom.
5) Imperium of Man can no longer use their ships. Empire can move unfettered. Empire wins.

Since that is off the table...

Erm, won't they have to find those Coordinates first?

Also, the Imperium has a fair few Psykers who can see the future and what not. They would probably see this coming.

I really don't see the Imperium of Man losing this. They just have too much going for them. Death Star is the only thing that can wipe out planets? Well too bad that the Imperium can do this aswell.

Also.....Virus bomb. GG.


Also, I'm going to pose a question. Does the SW use of Hyperdrives involve the Warp?

 

[Subitai]

Imperium and friends/enemies of course. You guys have and will explain it better than I ever could. :lol

 

[Jenga]

Imperium would win.


Hell, the Imperium is probably what Palpatine imagined his human-only empire would look like if it had all gone to plan

 

[Alucrid]

Also, I'm going to pose a question. Does the SW use of Hyperdrives involve touching the Warp?

Interesting. I wouldn't say so since ships in 40k have to open a portal to get in the warp, then exit it to travel. SW just seems to go super fast.

 

[TheKaeptain]

Isn't there a ship in Star Wars that has the power of the deathstar?

 

[LaserBuddha]

WH40K is so head-swimmingly macho and extreme that it actually transcends the traditionally negative reaction to things that are overly macho and extreme.


This wiki contains everything there is to know about WH40K

 

[BattleMonkey]

Those century old spaceships are still some of the most technologically advanced ships around. They are effective and hence kept in use. A lot of them have however been replaced with newer and better models. On this note, whilst losing a ship is a big deal, it's not an irrecoverable one. I think you underestimate how much technology the current Imperium understands. Very few technologies are beyond them. Not really seeing how the Empire has complete air superiority there...

Much of their technology IS beyond them. Lot of the technology they can not replicate because they truly don't understand it, they just know how to fix certain common things, but when destroyed, they will often not be able to replicate said technologies. Many templates used by the Imperium is long lost so they must always repair as much of it as they can. The one thing though is that even though this is a problem, they tend to have tons of the stuff laying around anyways since the universe and size of the Imperium is so huge, they aren't going to run out any time soon.

As for being the most technologically advanced, that is only true in the frame of the 40k universe itself, but a major aspect of the universe is that lot of the tech is a fusion of high tech, and archaic tech.

Isn't there a ship in Star Wars that has the power of the deathstar?

There are several ships with super lasers on them, but they are not as powerful as the deathstars.

 

[DUFFMCWALIN]

Imperium would win.


Hell, the Imperium is probably what Palpatine imagined his human-only empire would look like if it had all gone to plan

Ya thats what I think too. Palpatine probably has a hard on while watching the Imperium do work.

 

[Diseased Yak]

I fucking love nerd arguments like this!

Unfortunately, I can't comment because I simply don't know enough bout Warhammer 40k. What you you all suggest as a book to start on? I love all the God Emperor stuff, fascinating.

 

[Alucrid]

I fucking love nerd arguments like this!

Unfortunately, I can't comment because I simply don't know enough bout Warhammer 40k. What you you all suggest as a book to start on? I love all the God Emperor stuff, fascinating.

I've actually read a lot of books, but there are TONS of them out there so I have no clue. Maybe the Codex which is the rule book but also gives background info. It's expensive as fuck though. I'm sure someone can suggest a good paper back about it.

 

[AceBandage]

Much of their technology IS beyond them. Lot of the technology they can not replicate because they truly don't understand it, they just know how to fix certain common things, but when destroyed, they will often not be able to replicate said technologies. Many templates used by the Imperium is long lost so they must always repair as much of it as they can. The one thing though is that even though this is a problem, they tend to have tons of the stuff laying around anyways since the universe and size of the Imperium is so huge, they aren't going to run out any time soon.

As for being the most technologically advanced, that is only true in the frame of the 40k universe itself, but a major aspect of the universe is that lot of the tech is a fusion of high tech, and archaic tech.



There are several ships with super lasers on them, but they are not as powerful as the deathstars.

That's kind of true of SW as well, though. Laser Crossbows, lightsabers...

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I'm sure, but to what advantage? The Imperium of Man is pretty lax on not giving a damn about it's people and the Golden Throne on Terra is what the Empire wants in the OP scenario.

oh i see. I was trying to envision a scenario that could force a surrender. if they can't out-muscle them, perhaps a more crafty approach that relies on speed/deception/stealth can yield a path to victory.

that lead me to guerrilla tactics. but it sounds like that won't work here, so idk. what kind of targeting technology to Imperium ships use? speeds? can they avoid Imperial turbolasers or are they gonna get 1-shot?

 

[Meteorain]

Much of their technology IS beyond them. Lot of the technology they can not replicate because they truly don't understand it, they just know how to fix certain common things, but when destroyed, they will often not be able to replicate said technologies. Many templates used by the Imperium is long lost so they must always repair as much of it as they can. The one thing though is that even though this is a problem, they tend to have tons of the stuff laying around anyways since the universe and size of the Imperium is so huge, they aren't going to run out any time soon.

As for being the most technologically advanced, that is only true in the frame of the 40k universe itself, but a major aspect of the universe is that lot of the tech is a fusion of high tech, and archaic tech.

Most technologies as an overall then sure. Most utilised technologies, I don't think so. I've not come across very much fluff where they talk about technologies they don't know. They just say "oh we don't know what this does", but not in terms of stuff they actually use. The most prominent I can think of is Teleportation.

Yes you are right, they are only technologically advance in their Universe, but that's how I meant it. I can't really fault them for keeping it, since it's the most advance in their Universe :lol

I fucking love nerd arguments like this!

Unfortunately, I can't comment because I simply don't know enough bout Warhammer 40k. What you you all suggest as a book to start on? I love all the God Emperor stuff, fascinating.

Horus Heresy series. Do it.



I got another question. If SW gets Darth Vader and stuff.....does 40k get to keep some Primarchs?

 

[Sinatar]

any reason why the Empire couldn't do gurrella-style hit and run attacks with Star Destroyers?

and by "hit and run" I mean "destroy the fucking planet and hyperspace jump out" over and over again until the Imperium surrendered?

Imperium... Surrender?

Not happening.

 

[way more]

All I know about Warhammer is what I've wikied and these selections stand out the most to me.

The Adeptus Terra is so immense, and operates so inefficiently, that whole departments of it still service agencies which no longer exist and worlds dead for thousands of years.

And this what I find about the technology.

The Adeptus Mechanicus

Known as the Tech-Priests of Mars, the Adeptus Mechanicus is based on the ancient factory world of Mars, and are a quasi-independent organisation and empire unto themselves (controlling all forge-worlds and manufacturing bases in the Imperium), with their own armed forces and institutional culture. These 'enginseers' and 'techpriests' of the Imperium create and maintain most of the Imperium's more advanced machinery and weaponry, despite the fact that their understanding of technology is limited at best - most procedure is based on ritual and religious dogma rather than genuine engineering or mechanical skill. Their extremely conservative beliefs regarding the advancement of human technology, coupled with their stranglehold on the Imperium's manufacturing capabilities, has ensured that humanity's technological advancement has mostly stagnated for 10,000 years.

The Imperium sounds big, slow, and dumb but that technique has won plenty of wars for Russia.