gofreak said:I think you pin too much responsibility on Game for NPS overall results.
By the sounds of it, for the last quarter, Game made a profit while NPS overall had a loss. So...you can't really work your math like that.
I'm surprised at the discrepancy between 'game' and NPS for the last quarter. I'm trying to find more detail.
I would say yes. But consider like everybody they always are working in R&D, so you have to add here PS4, and PS3+PSP future cheaper revisions.JardeL said:So, Sony sold 35.7 mil PS3s in 4 years, that's 4.2 mil more than MS did with X360.
By the way, those losses include R&D costs like PSP2 or Move?
Stumpokapow said:It's worth noting that with these losses, Sony has now officially lost money since entering the game industry.
Celine said:
~$4.6 ?Jtyettis said:So ~$5.6 billion this gen. They had improved the year before while tracking back to similar losses from the earlier years this last year. Price cut I'm sure did that which certainly leads me to believe a price cut going forward looks rather silly, but with 15 million eh they'll have to have it.
Celine said:~$4.6 ?
They think that now it is profitable, will likely post an annual profit of at least 1 billion yen this year from PS3 HW.Jtyettis said:So ~$5.6 billion this gen. They had improved the year before while tracking back to similar losses from the earlier years this last year. Price cut I'm sure did that which certainly leads me to believe a price cut going forward looks rather silly, but with 15 million eh they'll have to have it.
I thought it was those LCD Tvs, the currency rate, continued company wide restructuring, and decreased sales of the highly profitable psp and ps2?Rapping Granny said:Wow, how the fuck do you lose $900million?
Dedication Through Light said:I thought it was those LCD Tvs, the currency rate, continued company wife restructuring, and decreased sales of the highly profitable psp and ps2?
yurinka said:They think that now it is profitable, will likely post an annual profit of at least 1 billion yen this year from PS3 HW.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21254624&postcount=138
So at the end of the generation maybe this 5.6 billion is back in addition to some profit.
Note it will be even more if we consider PS3 games (not hardware), perifeals and PSN services sales, and the additional profit the console would be added to HD TVs, 3DTVs, BlueRay players and movies divisions at the end of the generation.
Tutomos said:If they lose so much money why don't they quit? Very simple answer, because they already have the infrastructure setup and it would be a waste to not try to do better from here.
Psychotext said:Code:Sony Nintendo Microsoft Total Y/E 1998 $902,811,090 $1,023,333,867 $1,926,144,957 Y/E 1999 $1,102,563,557 $1,301,350,000 $2,403,913,557 Y/E 2000 $722,738,949 $1,368,207,547 $2,090,946,497 Y/E 2001 -$449,776,290 $677,576,000 $227,799,710 Y/E 2002 $629,101,056 $895,872,180 -$1,135,000,000 $389,973,237 Y/E 2003 $935,569,253 $834,333,333 -$1,191,000,000 $578,902,586 Y/E 2004 $627,195,212 $993,161,303 -$1,337,000,000 $283,356,515 Y/E 2005 $419,888,799 $1,056,056,202 -$539,000,000 $936,945,001 Y/E 2006 $69,129,058 $774,478,055 -$1,339,000,000 -$495,392,887 Y/E 2007 -$1,970,923,859 $1,914,666,388 -$1,969,000,000 -$2,025,257,471 Y/E 2008 -$1,079,994,103 $4,322,637,887 $426,000,000 $3,668,643,783 Y/E 2009 -$664,313,787 $5,691,428,301 $169,000,000 $5,196,114,515 Y/E 10Q1 -$413,541,667 $420,843,750 $312,000,000 $319,302,083 Y/E 10Q2 -$653,333,333 $710,655,556 $375,000,000 $432,011,111 Y/E 10Q3 $210,629,750 $2,087,904,452 N/A N/A Total $387,078,407 $24,072,504,822 -$6,157,000,000 $16,004,049,028 Full Year Average $103,665,745 $1,737,758,422 -$1,001,857,143 $914,270,499 Profitable Years 8 12 2 10 Non Profitable Years 4 0 6 2 Average in Loss Year -$1,041,252,010 N/A -$1,251,666,667 -$1,260,325,179 Average in Profit Year $676,124,622 $1,737,758,422 $333,000,000 $1,389,625,094
...and a handy note suggested by Stumpokapow:
The years in the chart above refer to the financial years of each company, which do not align on a calendar basis.
Microsoft is one quarter behind Sony and Nintendo on that chart. They will be the first to report their 2010 calendar Q1 earnings (Jan - Mar), which they report as their 2010 Q3 financial figures. Nintendo and Sony just reported their 2010 calendar Q3 earnings (Oct - Dec), which they report as their 2010 Q3 financial figures.
...and another:
These numbers are the operating income figures for all companies, rather than the net income.
...and another:
As of FY 2010 Q1, Sony are now reporting the results for the re-organised division "Networked Products & Services" rather than the old method of reporting for the gaming division.
"Sony said it will combine its VAIO personal-computer, Walkman and PlayStation businesses in the Networked Products & Services Group to focus on creating gadgets that can work with each other and connect to the Internet."
LOL I failed. xDSpiegel said:Billion yen != Billion dollars
They won't recover these losses this gen.
donny2112 said:Fixed.
No one but Nintendo is likely to make $6B in gaming in the next few years. PS2's biggest profit year was < $1B with typical years like $600m profit. Perspective is useful.
Tom Penny said:Shortages will prevent them from even outselling the 360 never mind near Wii numbers.
Jtyettis said:Yea and who actually beleives that really happened. :lol
Jtyettis said:How does the Wii compare to the best PS2 years?
gcubed said:is the 360 number from a financial report or Sony's estimates, if its from a report, i don't know how you can argue... unless you are saying companies lie on their financial reports
Jtyettis said:Oh it is most certainly from the reports, but where in the world did it actually outsell the 360. Name one place and even if it did in Japan it couldn't have been anywhere near enough to make up the rest of the world. And no I'm not big on Sony reports they have in fact changed shipments numbers well after the fact.
I think you should add "/sarcasm" since not everyone can figure it out.Tom Penny said:Shortages will prevent them from even outselling the 360 never mind near Wii numbers.
...Jtyettis said:Not with 900 million on top of it.
Y/E 2007 -$1,970,923,859 $1,914,666,388 -$1,969,000,000 -$2,025,257,471
Y/E 2008 -$1,079,994,103 $4,322,637,887 $426,000,000 $3,668,643,783
Y/E 2009 -$664,313,787
Y/E 2010 -$900,000,000
gcubed said:thats fine, can't really argue with you. You don't trust financial reports but you trust your gut more.
Celine said:...
2 + 1.1 + 0.6 + 0.9 = 4.6
no.yurinka said:So at the end of the generation maybe this 5.6 billion is back in addition to some profit.
donny2112 said:Updated the previous post with Psychotext's last chart update.
PS3 vs 360 HW worldwide LTD became closer with the years, specially after the big PS3 price cut. Now (as of March 2010) there is 4.5M distance I think.Jtyettis said:Oh it is most certainly from the reports, but where in the world did it actually outsell the 360. Name one place and even if it did in Japan it couldn't have been anywhere near enough to make up the rest of the world. And no I'm not big on Sony reports they have in fact changed shipments numbers well after the fact.
yurinka said:PS3 vs 360 HW worldwide LTD became closer with the years. Now there is 4.5M distance I think.
I think USA and UK (around 20% of Euro market) are the big markets where the 360 has a bigger install base. Same happens in Japan with PS3. BTW does anyone has PS3 vs 360 HW LTD sales updated until March in USA,Japan and UK?
The combined sales of the other smaller markets I think should be around 50% or maybe with a really small PS3 lead globally considering this 4.5M.
Celine said:
I don't know if you noticed but that 5.6 billion is dollars, when the number above is yen.yurinka said:They think that now it is profitable, will likely post an annual profit of at least 1 billion yen this year from PS3 HW.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21254624&postcount=138
So at the end of the generation maybe this 5.6 billion is back in addition to some profit.
Or maybe Sony realises that their 'star' talent are pretty set in thier production strategy ways, and it wouold take fresh blood to implement fresh ideas. Theoretically speaking.gofreak said:One thing that's irked me so far about Move, or I suppose that's curious, is that practically all the software coming from Sony isn't from existing Sony studios. They're nearly all from new studios, or from external studios they've contracted in (with the exception of one game from Sony Cambridge).
Filling a gap until their more 'star' studios adopt it? Or recognition that it needs a different type of software altogether? Either way, Sony's not really leveraging their established talent for it. Yet, anyway...maybe we'll see that change at E3 or TGS, but that'll likely be for non-launch, 2011 software anyway.
They lost $75 million this last quarter. Your other point still stands -- it is the best 4th quarter result since the PS3 launched:DMeisterJ said:They only lost 33 million dollars in the Network Products blah blah blah this quarter. That's down from last year, and the lowest in a long while iirc.
Fake-edit: Let me check my maths
Real-edit: My yen conversion skills fail, more like a loss of only 330 million. My previous point does not stand anymore. :lol
Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4 TOTAL
FY2006 -26.8 -43.5 -54.2 -107.8 -232.3
FY2007 -29.2 -96.7 12.9 -11.6 -124.6
FY2008 5.4 -39.5 0.4 -24.8 -58.5
FY2009 -39.7 -58.8 19.4 -7.0 -86.1
(Billions of yen.)
Nirolak said:So if I'm reading this correctly, they're expecting the PS3 to sell almost as much as the Wii?
That is pretty ambitious.
Jtyettis said:I trust this;
US NPD
~1.1 million X360 (Q1)
~260K PS2 (Q1)
Now combine that with Europe and the rest of the world and tell me where it outsold the the 360 again.
Yea, you are correct totally reading that wrong.
Jtyettis said:Now combine that with Europe and the rest of the world and tell me where it outsold the the 360 again.
gbovo said:Or maybe Sony realises that their 'star' talent are pretty set in thier production strategy ways, and it wouold take fresh blood to implement fresh ideas. Theoretically speaking.
gcubed said:i have no idea where it came from. If you trust only NPD and extrapolate to the world, then you dont believe the PS3 outsold the 360 either?
gofreak said:The rest of the world is probably a much bigger deal for PS2 than it is for 360, at this stage in its life. It's not too difficult to think that all the places Sony's still pushing PS2 add up to a reasonable number.
Jtyettis said:We're talking about the PS2 not PS3. Don't mix things.
I don't really buy that argument but ok. Even if you we're to add in Japan I'm fairly certain the numbers wouldn't change by much. I'm sure someone has those which really leaves EMEA, AU and NZ and that just ain't happening. It comes down to shipment numbers, but in actual sale through sorry no way it could make up that kind of gap adding in the rest.
TunaLover said:How can they afford to lose so much money?, I doubt they go for another red year, they will probably add more value at the package, but no price cut, though.
Jtyettis said:I don't really buy that argument but ok. Even if you we're to add in Japan I'm fairly certain the numbers wouldn't change by much. I'm sure someone has those which really leaves EMEA, AU and NZ and that just ain't happening. It comes down to shipment numbers, but in actual sale through sorry no way it could make up that kind of gap adding in the rest.
Square Triangle said:I would think that software sales on the 360 are lower because of the modding community?
gofreak said:The alternative is there was a mistake or Sony's lying
:lol :lol Jyettis.Jtyettis said:I trust this;
US NPD
~1.1 million X360 (Q1)
~260K PS2 (Q1)
Now combine that with Europe and the rest of the world and tell me where it outsold the the 360 again.
Yea, you are correct totally reading that wrong.
Baki said::lol :lol Jyettis.
At any rate you should take into account that:
A) Deepbrown was talkin about Q4 (haven't seen the numbers myself)
B) PS2 sells very well in emerging markets (China, India, Russia,Korea,Middle East)
C) Its also quite possible MS overshipped a bit in Q3.
In the last 4 financial years Nintendo made US$ 15.8 Billion in operating income.Jtyettis said:Which blows my mind to think the 360 division is approaching PS2 era profits this fiscal year (the biggest profit year that is). How does the Wii compare to the best PS2 years? I'm sure this is harder to tell with the NDS in the mix.