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Sony defends decision to block crossplay: "A responsibility to our install base."

T

The Artisan

Member
Marty Chinn said:
But there are more changes to the game than just cross play and they're holding those features back from the PS4 version for business reasons. Is that not the case? I'm not saying they aren't justified; I'm saying your argument is weakened when you have a hypocritical stance by siding with one party over the other when they both are doing similar things in the fact that they're doing what's in their best interest as a business. Are you saying Microsoft doesn't have the resources to update Minecraft for the PS4 to have all the other features except cross play? As a business, Microsoft shouldn't be required to incur that cost because of Sony, but if you want to ignore the business reality, then that shouldn't be something you consider.

I feel if you want this to gain better traction, people need a better approach because it's coming off as borderline fanboyism when you are condemning one but not the other based on principles of not caring about what it means to the business and yelling out anti-consumer. Otherwise you get people poking holes in your flawed approach rather than having a sound argument. I've said it before, I'm on your side as far as wanting cross play for everyone, but I think some of your reasoning is flawed when you're trying to present your case. It's disheartening to see in the other thread how many people don't give a shit on an enthusiast board, but if they don't care, the casuals probably won't either so I think a stronger case needs to be made. That's why I'm calling you out on your argument; that and because you seemed at least willing to listen and consider the points being made.
Click to expand...
Once again I don't care if I come off as a hypocrite in your eyes and your devil's advocate attitude is likewise also not doing anything to add value for or against this cause; also again Cerium can explain it better than I can but the update has been made and it is what it is, everything about it to me is positive and cross play isn't supposed to be looked at as a tradeoff; it's another positive. Also, you already know that I'm an owner of only PlayStation consoles. Ps1, Ps2, PsP, Ps3, Ps4, Ps Vita; I only game on Sony's platforms and I've been critical of Sony this whole time. The colloquial term "fanboy" has been meant so many different things at this point now you're saying I'm a fanboy of a platform brand that I've never even been a part of
 
R

RedStep

Member
Ploid 3.0 said:
(Thanks xbox players for accepting pay for online play...)
Click to expand...

oQCBeMk.png
 
M

Marty Chinn

Member
The Artisan said:
Once again I don't care if I come off as a hypocrite in your eyes and your devil's advocate attitude is likewise also not doing anything to add value for or against this cause; also again Cerium can explain it better than I can but the update has been made and it is what it is, everything about it to me is positive and cross play isn't supposed to be looked at as a tradeoff; it's another positive. Also, you already know that I'm an owner of only PlayStation consoles. Ps1, Ps2, PsP, Ps3, Ps4, Ps Vita; I only game on Sony's platforms and I've been critical of Sony this whole time. The colloquial term "fanboy" has been meant so many different things at this point now you're saying I'm a fanboy of a platform brand that I've never even been a part of
Click to expand...

I'm not saying you're a fanboy; I'm saying the stance and argument has the optics of fanboyism. There's a difference. Nobody is going to look at your gaming history and know from how you post. They are going to look at you condemning Sony but then letting Microsoft slide on similar principles. When you scream and yell at one while excusing the other then it looks like fanboyism. There's a difference.

If you don't care that you look like a hypocrite is the only response you have to that, then you really have a flawed argument despite being on the right side of the issue. You wonder why people in here and other threads challenge and debate you and other people like you on this argument and maybe you should actually look at how you argue and present your side. There's reason for push back and this is part of it. If you don't care how it looks, then what do you really expect to accomplish when people dismiss it as just raving Xbox fans because they get the impression you're looking the other way when it comes to Microsoft based on the very reasons you're using explicitly to condemn Sony? You're free to push the issue any way you please, but if this is the stance that you and other people are going to take, I'd brace myself for a lot more push back and less people jumping in with you.

I'll say it again, your end game is good; your game plan and approach is flawed.
 
C

CookTrain

Member
Marty Chinn said:
I'm not saying you're a fanboy; I'm saying the stance and argument has the optics of fanboyism. There's a difference. Nobody is going to look at your gaming history and know from how you post. They are going to look at you condemning Sony but then letting Microsoft slide on similar principles. When you scream and yell at one while excusing the other then it looks like fanboyism. There's a difference.

If you don't care that you look like a hypocrite is the only response you have to that, then you really have a flawed argument despite being on the right side of the issue. You wonder why people in here and other threads challenge and debate you and other people like you on this argument and maybe you should actually look at how you argue and present your side. There's reason for push back and this is part of it. If you don't care how it looks, then what do you really expect to accomplish when people dismiss it as just raving Xbox fans because they get the impression you're looking the other way when it comes to Microsoft based on the very reasons you're using explicitly to condemn Sony? You're free to push the issue any way you please, but if this is the stance that you and other people are going to take, I'd brace myself for a lot more push back and less people jumping in with you.

I'll say it again, your end game is good; your game plan and approach is flawed.
Click to expand...

I dunno man... trying to paint Microsoft as bad for not providing two bespoke versions of Minecraft for a platform that is antagonistic to them over the very same Minecraft doesn't really have the greatest "optics" either.

Is there a group of people who would rather argue that Playstation get it's own bastardised implementation of the bedrock codebase, rather than Sony letting everyone play together? I've still yet to see compelling thinking behind why a customer would feel more inclined to get the sidelined version even if it was updated when the full cream is on offer.
 
J

jonscrambler

Member
Marty Chinn said:
You wonder why people in here and other threads challenge and debate you and other people like you on this argument and maybe you should actually look at how you argue and present your side. There's reason for push back and this is part of it..
Click to expand...

what push back? there's maybe a total of 3 people in all these threads that are against crossplay. of course a lot of people "don't care", 2/3 of PS4 owners don't even have PS+ to play online, why would they care about cross play.
 
8

8byte

Banned
rpmurphy said:
Obviously, I don't have insight into their business itself, but three possibilities come to mind:
1) A policy has not yet been formalized or been considered, and their PR people are not in a position to discuss this on behalf of the business.
2) They have special relationships with certain publishers and/or developers that they are comfortable with negotiating crossplay features, and that is the furthest they will go.
3) They do not want to have crossplay with XBox or Nintendo, period.

Personally, I think it falls somewhere between 1 and 2. They have conceded to some cross-platform multiplayer for Square-Enix MMOs, and it's a matter for them to consider whether that should be broadened.
Click to expand...

I agree that it's mix of 1 and 2 without a discernible hard line in the sand. I don't think they flat out refuse to let this be a possibility.

I do believe they would probably like their terms met, and in some of the cases where crossplay has happened on other systems, those terms were not met.

Sony has already shown they are willing to work across platforms. I'm willing to bet it isn't a hard "no" but more of a "well these are our terms, so it's a no until then."

I'd also argue there is the mix of business in there and what they stand to gain. As it is, these two games probably aren't a big enough hit to Sony's ecosystem for them to genuinely buckle and change their terms for the good of the consumer.

Maybe with a bigger title in the future that can happen, but I'm not holding my breath.
 
P

PrivateWHudson

Member
CookTrain said:
I do find it a little cheeky that they tweak the render distance in the better looking one as well. That's not part of the fancy dancy pack :p
Click to expand...

From what I understand, that is part of the fancy pack. This update isn't just a texture and lighting pack, it's a whole new engine. It also uses the crossplay network to add PC like infinite worlds on console and mobile.
 
C

CookTrain

Member
PrivateWHudson said:
From what I understand, that is part of the fancy pack. This update isn't just a texture and lighting pack, it's a whole new engine. It also uses the crossplay network to add PC like infinite worlds on console and mobile.
Click to expand...

Aye, the Bedrock codebase is basically Pocket Edition, which expanded to Windows 10 as well and is now being brought over to some consoles. The performance boost is pretty staggering on even modest hardware. The top shot looks underwhelming for distance even to current Xbox One Minecraft, let alone what the beefed up standard edition will look like even before adding the swanky dank boost pack on top.
 
P

PrivateWHudson

Member
Marty Chinn said:
I'm not saying you're a fanboy; I'm saying the stance and argument has the optics of fanboyism. There's a difference. Nobody is going to look at your gaming history and know from how you post. They are going to look at you condemning Sony but then letting Microsoft slide on similar principles. When you scream and yell at one while excusing the other then it looks like fanboyism. There's a difference.

If you don't care that you look like a hypocrite is the only response you have to that, then you really have a flawed argument despite being on the right side of the issue. You wonder why people in here and other threads challenge and debate you and other people like you on this argument and maybe you should actually look at how you argue and present your side. There's reason for push back and this is part of it. If you don't care how it looks, then what do you really expect to accomplish when people dismiss it as just raving Xbox fans because they get the impression you're looking the other way when it comes to Microsoft based on the very reasons you're using explicitly to condemn Sony? You're free to push the issue any way you please, but if this is the stance that you and other people are going to take, I'd brace myself for a lot more push back and less people jumping in with you.

I'll say it again, your end game is good; your game plan and approach is flawed.
Click to expand...

It's not hypocritical to focus the conversation on Sony. IF there wasn't crossplay involved and MS was refusing to add some other code to make it compatible with PlayStation, then you would be right. But, by focusing on Sony's decision, we stand the chance to get the new version PLUS crossplay. Why not fight for two things instead of just one? Why give MS grief just to settle?
 
T

The Artisan

Member
Marty Chinn said:
I'm not saying you're a fanboy; I'm saying the stance and argument has the optics of fanboyism. There's a difference. Nobody is going to look at your gaming history and know from how you post. They are going to look at you condemning Sony but then letting Microsoft slide on similar principles. When you scream and yell at one while excusing the other then it looks like fanboyism. There's a difference.

If you don't care that you look like a hypocrite is the only response you have to that, then you really have a flawed argument despite being on the right side of the issue. You wonder why people in here and other threads challenge and debate you and other people like you on this argument and maybe you should actually look at how you argue and present your side. There's reason for push back and this is part of it. If you don't care how it looks, then what do you really expect to accomplish when people dismiss it as just raving Xbox fans because they get the impression you're looking the other way when it comes to Microsoft based on the very reasons you're using explicitly to condemn Sony? You're free to push the issue any way you please, but if this is the stance that you and other people are going to take, I'd brace myself for a lot more push back and less people jumping in with you.

I'll say it again, your end game is good; your game plan and approach is flawed.
Click to expand...
Maybe bullet points would be easier to explain how I see things

-Mojang: We're coming out with a new free Minecraft update, better graphics, infinite worlds, and crossplay

-Psyonix: It is very simple for us to implement crossplay; now with the release of Switch, we're going to put them all together

-Me: Okay, awesome. These games are available on Ps4, so I will get to reap these benefits right?

-Sony: No.

-Me: What?! What is the holdup?

-Sony: We don't want to collaborate with the competition/we don't want to boost mS's MAU/we have a duty to our stakeholders and children of the user base.

-Me: What the fuck?! If I was playing these games on any of the other platforms I wouldn't have to deal with this bullshit!

-You: So are you gonna start asking for free consoles too? Also, no one knows about the Minecraft update. Also, isn't it reasonable to ask Mojang for a Ps4 exclusive update?

You've had a polite demeanor and I appreciate that, but your devil's advocate type attitude is coming off as a more sophisticated form of trolling now
 
ArtHands

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
JONEZZEEonGAF said:
I don't see the big deal. Ms last gen wouldn't allow it and Sony is doing the same this gen. No one hated on Ms back then.
Click to expand...

MS was shit back then but they are the one stepping a step forward and improve here, along with Nintendo, Apple, Google etc
 
M

mrg6290

Member
JONEZZEEonGAF said:
Bias? I'm not fussed either way. People are going over the top with this. Sony as a company can choose what to do with their online infrastructure. As can the other two companies.
Click to expand...

And customers can choose when to be loud on the internet so that they get the features they want wherever they choose to play.
 
JONEZZEEonGAF

JONEZZEEonGAF

Member
mrg6290 said:
And customers can choose when to be loud on the internet so that they get the features they want wherever they choose to play.
Click to expand...
Indeed they can voice their opinion, I can't see much changing just because people on a forum shout about this one thing.

If they do change their mind and get cross platform gaming then fair enough well done internet.

Lets not forget that from a leading position MS never pushed for cross platform mp. Do I think Jim ryan is telling the truth with his scripted reasoning? Not at all.

Most of my friends have the same console or own a couple consoles. This usually rings true for most people.

Maybe some people bought an xb1 and all their friends got PS4's sucks to be them.
 
M

Moneal

Member
CountAntonius said:
You lose nothing if this becomes a reality. Stop arguing for a corporation.
Click to expand...

I was never arguing for corporations. Some people on here just need a reality check. Sony isn't going to do this #4thePlayers, and neither is MS. Both are doing this for business reasons. Saying I don't care about business, and then saying MS shouldn't have to port the upgrade to PS4 while saying Sony should do crossplay is hypocritical plain and simple.
 
C

Cerium

Member
monegames said:
I was never arguing for corporations. Some people on here just need a reality check. Sony isn't going to do this #4thePlayers, and neither is MS. Both are doing this for business reasons. Saying I don't care about business, and then saying MS shouldn't have to port the upgrade to PS4 while saying Sony should do crossplay is hypocritical plain and simple.
Click to expand...

It's not hypocritical because if Sony does crossplay PS4 gets the upgrade. This is 100% up to Sony.
 
O

Oersted

Member
monegames said:
I was never arguing for corporations. Some people on here just need a reality check. Sony isn't going to do this #4thePlayers, and neither is MS. Both are doing this for business reasons. Saying I don't care about business, and then saying MS shouldn't have to port the upgrade to PS4 while saying Sony should do crossplay is hypocritical plain and simple.
Click to expand...

So are you trying to say that Nintendo, Microsoft, Google, Apple and Valve are doing a pro-consumer move out of business reasons?

What a hypocritical consumer would I be to reward such shameless pro-consumer moves.
 
S

superNESjoe

Member
What you're seeing here is PS2 era Sony coming back again, which will lead to another PS3-launch/early years scenario just as the success of Xbox 360 led to the Xbox One.

Something tells me Sony's tremendous success won't continue into the next console generation if they don't learn from their mistakes and keep the pro-consumer momentum going. Arrogance is a bad thing and the top brand in this industry gets replaced every single generation.
 
T

Trup1aya

Member
8byte said:
You disagree? You think MS/Nintendo doing this is "for the players"?
Click to expand...

No, they are doing it for themselves...

It also happens to be the best thing "for the players" so it's a win-win

As consumers, why fret about the motives? It's the outcome that's important.
 
T

TheYanger

Member
monegames said:
I was never arguing for corporations. Some people on here just need a reality check. Sony isn't going to do this #4thePlayers, and neither is MS. Both are doing this for business reasons. Saying I don't care about business, and then saying MS shouldn't have to port the upgrade to PS4 while saying Sony should do crossplay is hypocritical plain and simple.
Click to expand...

Nothing you posted addresses the fact that it doesn't matter why the other companies want to do it - better for consumers is better for consumers. By your logic there's no such thing as anti or pro-consumer in any sense.
 
N

n!smo

Neo Member
I'm fine with
PS4 + PC (+ Switch) and
Xbone + PC + Switch

Enough players in pool. (As if PS4 ever had any problems in matchmaking...).

If you don't want to accept a certain business strategy, you are gladly welcome to vote with your wallet. MS is launching new console in dire need of buyers (and games) - so there's that.
 
O

Oersted

Member
n!smo said:
I'm fine with
PS4 + PC (+ Switch) and
Xbone + PC + Switch

Enough players in pool. (As if PS4 ever had any problems in matchmaking...).

If you don't want to accept a certain business strategy, you are gladly welcome to vote with your wallet. MS is launching new console in dire need of buyers (and games) - so there's that.
Click to expand...

I will see the day where "vote with your wallet" won't be barely coded language for "shut up and stop complaining".

Anyway, full cross play is enabled between in many cases of these cases between Switch, 3DS, Xbox One, Steam, iOs and Android.

If you think all these platforms are in dire need of buyers, I think I got some bad news for you.
 
M

Moneal

Member
TheYanger said:
Nothing you posted addresses the fact that it doesn't matter why the other companies want to do it - better for consumers is better for consumers. By your logic there's no such thing as anti or pro-consumer in any sense.
Click to expand...

Businesses are never pro consumer. they are pro their business. MS is doing things that they see as benefiting their business. As a byproduct, it can be seen by gamers as pro consumer, similar to how Sony did with game trading early in this Gen. The other companies, the only ones that would potentially have a say are Nintendo and maybe Apple. Android is open and google doesn't dictate it. Windows 10 is MS. As for apple I don't know if they would have to sign off on this, as there are many mobile games that are already crossplay with android. I actually don't know any games that have dedicated servers that are on both android and ios that aren't crossplay.
Nintendo and MS benefit from a larger player pool, which sony sees as not a worthy benefit for them.


Oersted said:
So are you trying to say that Nintendo, Microsoft, Google, Apple and Valve are doing a pro-consumer move out of business reasons?

What a hypocritical consumer would I be to reward such shameless pro-consumer moves.
Click to expand...

Its not hypocritical to reward companies for moves you like. If you read my post I say its hypocritical to say one side is anti consumer for what they are not doing while saying its ok for the other side to not do something.

monegames said:
I was never arguing for corporations. Some people on here just need a reality check. Sony isn't going to do this #4thePlayers, and neither is MS. Both are doing this for business reasons. Saying I don't care about business, and then saying MS shouldn't have to port the upgrade to PS4 while saying Sony should do crossplay is hypocritical plain and simple.
Click to expand...

Im saying that Sony should do cross play and MS should bring the upgrades to PS4 even if they don't. I see this as MS designing the update around cross play to make everyone comply or not get the update. It makes no sense to create a codebase to update your game that can't have an online feature optional, especially when the feature isn't something you dont have an agreement with all platform holders the game is already on..
 
C

Cerium

Member
monegames said:
Its not hypocritical to reward companies for moves you like. If you read my post I say its hypocritical to say one side is anti consumer for what they are not doing while saying its ok for the other side to not do something.
Click to expand...

No your post is a stupid as fuck deflection because if we get what we want (crossplay) then you get what you claim to want (the Minecraft relaunch). If you actually had any interest in Minecraft you would be asking for crossplay just like the rest of us. What you actually want here is to muddy the discussion with some "both sides are the same" horseshit. It's very transparent and no one is fooled.
 
M

Moneal

Member
Cerium said:
No your post is a stupid as fuck deflection because if we get what we want (crossplay) then you get what you claim to want (the Minecraft relaunch). If you actually had any interest in Minecraft you would be asking for crossplay just like the rest of us. What you actually want here is to muddy the discussion with some "both sides are the same" horseshit. It's very transparent and no one is fooled.
Click to expand...

I am on neither side. I own minecraft on Xbox anyway. I want cross play going forward for as many games as possible, I just don't see one side of the argument. I do see both. you can say its not hypocritical to ask for a company to be pro consumer while not asking the same of the other, but it is. You should attack my argument instead of attacking me.
 
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