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[Krejlooc]

If I have a problem with a kickstarter, then I simply don't back it. I dont need a rule about what sort of financing is or isnt allowed because the decision to give money is mine alone. I back projects because I am interested in them, not because I think I am their primary lifeblood.I

 

[Stone Ocean]

Right. Yeah. I'm mostly there. But I do understand questioning where to draw the line (assuming we need to draw the line at all) in terms of whether or not a project should utilize crowdfunding. Not to pick on the franchise unfairly, but do you think that Activision should Kickstart next year's Call of Duty? That's not a rhetorical question either. I honestly don't know how I'd answer it.

There's no line to be drawn. The market curates itself, people won't fund things they don't want to fund, assuming we're mostly adults that know what they are doing with their money. And if big publishers want to use it they're free to do so, doesn't mean they'll be successfull or that it'll be worth it - I'm sure Activision would love to give out 2 millions worth of cheap Call of Duty pre orders just to offset some meaningless cost.

If we're to draw a line, where do we stop? Should we also consider devs that had multiple successfull Kickstarters to be scummy? How big do you need to be to have a Kickstarter?

As backers, there's only two things that should concern us out of a KS pitch: if we want what is being pitched and whether the devs are capable of delivering it. Nothing more, nothing less. We start adding armchair politics and we just ruin the damn thing.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Right. They couldn't fully fund it. The target would most definitely be some negligible amount in the grand scheme of things. But the question is would them launching a $2 million (for example) Kickstarter seem sleazy?

I'm assuming your asking from the viewpoint of if COD all of a sudden disappeared off the gaming landscape and 10 years from now we wanted another one and in order to gauge interest they launched a KS...

No its not sleazy to me.

 

[King_Moc]

Everything should be Kickstarted with early release. We actually might get better quality games.

This is another point people miss. It helps to prove to publishers that we aren't only interested in homogenised AC style crap.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I'm assuming your asking from the viewpoint of if COD all of a sudden disappeared off the gaming landscape and 10 years from now we wanted another one and in order to gauge interest they launched a KS..

No. I was asking where people would stand if Activision put up a Kickstarter campaign in January to Kickstart funding for Call of Duty 2016. If your point with this question was to highlight the differences between that scenario and this one, then I will assure you that your post was unnecessary. I was never trying to cite that is something directly analogous to this campaign, but instead just taking the concern some have with publishers using Kickstarter to supplement funding/gauge interest all the way down the slippery slope. And again, I'll note that those weren't rhetorical or leading questions. I promise that my endgame here isn't to trick people into answering that Kickstarting Call of Duty would be bullshit and therefore this is as well. I'm just trying to clarify where I believe some people are attacking this situation from.

 

[Corto]

They have already announced a 2-year dev cycle.

I can bet that it will be more than that. And the higher the total of Kickstarter pledges will be the more likely to be delayed from that 2 years estimation it will be.

 

[Wavebossa]

No. I was asking where people would stand if Activision put up a Kickstarter campaign in January to Kickstart funding for Call of Duty 2016. If your point with this question was to highlight the differences between that scenario and this one, then I will assure you that your post was unnecessary. I was never trying to cite that is something directly analogous to this campaign, but instead just taking the concern some have with publishers using Kickstarter to supplement funding/gauge interest all the way down the slippery slope. And again, I'll note that those weren't rhetorical or leading questions. I promise that my endgame here isn't to trick people into answering that Kickstarting Call of Duty would be bullshit and therefore this is as well. I'm just trying to clarify where I believe some people are attacking this situation from.

No problem whatsoever (see my above post)

Hell, if they said they wanted a 1 billion dollar kickstarter for the next Call of Duty I would be 100% fine with it. It would either fail, or it will get funded. The principle remains, people can do what they want with their money.

This will either continue and prove to be a successful funding model, or it wont. That simple

 

[Rebel Leader]

http://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2fo15lWFr1qeknrjo2_500.gif[/I MG]
My people...[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://abload.de/img/isibmxr2ac9i3rjjjs.gif

 

[Steve Youngblood]

No problem whatsoever (see my above post)

Hell, if they said they wanted a 1 billion dollar kickstarter for the next Call of Duty I would be 100% fine with it. It would either fail, or it will get funded. The principle remains, people can do what they want with their money.

This will either continue and prove to be a successful funding model, or it wont. That simple

Sure. To be clear, I don't necessarily disagree with you. My only thing is that this is all so new that I'm still kind of in a wait-and-see-mode in terms of watching this new funding mechanism develop and I'm honestly not sure where I stand in terms of how I think it should be employed. Overall, my lean is to kind of be laissez-faire about it and let the chips fall where they may. But I'm also kind of sympathetic to the idea that this method should be reserved for projects that are otherwise struggling to be funded.

 

[vpance]

This is another point people miss. It helps to prove to publishers that we aren't only interested in homogenised AC style crap.

I'd be willing to bet that there's quite a few ideas for new games from big studios that push the boundaries a bit, and don't get greenlighted or end up being massaged into the next AC, because it's not safe enough and doesn't tick all the standard checkboxes in the genre.

 

[Wavebossa]

Sure. To be clear, I don't necessarily disagree with you. My only thing is that this is all so new that I'm still kind of in a wait-and-see-mode in terms of watching this new funding mechanism develop and I'm honestly not sure where I stand in terms of how I think it should be employed. Overall, my lean is to kind of be laissez-faire about it and let the chips fall where they may. But I'm also kind of sympathetic to the idea that this method should be reserved for projects that are otherwise struggling to be funded.

Hmm... just curious would you feel better if it wasn't Kickstarter at all? If it was something else that functioned virtually the same but it was called something like "GameFunder" and all the big corporations used it only to kickstart funding on their games?

Honestly, I'm just trying to see if your sympathy stems from an emotional attachment to the idea of the little guy making a Kickstarter to fund is big idea.

 

[SomewhatGroovy]

No. I was asking where people would stand if Activision put up a Kickstarter campaign in January to Kickstart funding for Call of Duty 2016. If your point with this question was to highlight the differences between that scenario and this one, then I will assure you that your post was unnecessary. I was never trying to cite that is something directly analogous to this campaign, but instead just taking the concern some have with publishers using Kickstarter to supplement funding/gauge interest all the way down the slippery slope. And again, I'll note that those weren't rhetorical or leading questions. I promise that my endgame here isn't to trick people into answering that Kickstarting Call of Duty would be bullshit and therefore this is as well. I'm just trying to clarify where I believe some people are attacking this situation from.

I'm attacking it in the manner it was presented and how there is this narrative going around that only Sony "cares" about this "passion" project that is set to come out on one console but not before calculating and gauging interest. We do not know who approached Suzuki and what those conversations looked like. In the end, we know a decision was made and it was done with a partner that just so happens to produce hardware. You switch out Sony for Nintendo or Microsoft, I would have the same reaction: frustration. This is Shenmue and, in my view, Shenmue should be in the hands of people waiting for this moment, ready to back it up, regardless of what box sits in their home. It's as simple as that.

I am under no illusion that the KS is asking me to help "fund" the project, which isn't what this is about, and in return a game will be sent to be in the mail or be linked to my account of choice. What is odd to me is that this KS is a blatant request to push for a game to appear on a single console. "But if you were a hardcore fan...". no, that's...no. I won't nor can fund something with nets me nothing in return. Shenmue 3 existing means nothing for those that can't play it. Simple.

People's response is "weeeell, what about X nabbing exclusive rights to Y" or whatever. Again, this is Shenmue. A game gamers, period, have been clamoring for for 14 years. No one was making noise about getting rights to DLC first or a new Tomb Raider that another segment of the gaming population can't get their hands on for a specific period of time. That is a part of the industry we have become accustomed to when it comes to these third party giants. Shenmue does not fit into that category.

This is a unique moment. We all know the back story and that alone sets this situation apart from any ordinary kickstarter push for a game and so I can not judge nor see it with the same merit as I would a hypothetical Call of duty scenario (an already third party game that appears on all platforms).

 

[R_thanatos]

No. I was asking where people would stand if Activision put up a Kickstarter campaign in January to Kickstart funding for Call of Duty 2016. If your point with this question was to highlight the differences between that scenario and this one, then I will assure you that your post was unnecessary. I was never trying to cite that is something directly analogous to this campaign, but instead just taking the concern some have with publishers using Kickstarter to supplement funding/gauge interest all the way down the slippery slope. And again, I'll note that those weren't rhetorical or leading questions. I promise that my endgame here isn't to trick people into answering that Kickstarting Call of Duty would be bullshit and therefore this is as well. I'm just trying to clarify where I believe some people are attacking this situation from.

I honnestly think my answer would be no. A solid big NO.
Kickstarter is for projects where the potential appeal or the return value for investment is low/uncertain.

Or if you already have a project , an idea that works and you need more funding to finish the develloppement.

Those are the 2 kind of projects i have backed ( aside from localisation projects that wouldn't have happenned otherwise too )

If square-enix was kickstarting the FF7 remake , i wouldn't fund for it. ( but i would probably buy it at release )
But on shenmue case, the facts and evidence are there ...Kickstarter was needed in order for it to be made. No doubt about it. The risk/reward market we have now leave no doubts in my mind.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Hmm... just curious would you feel better if it wasn't Kickstarter at all? If it was something else that functioned virtually the same but it was called something like "GameFunder" and all the big corporations used it only to kickstart funding on their games?

Honestly, I'm just trying to see if your sympathy stems from an emotional attachment to the idea of the little guy making a Kickstarter to fund is big idea.

My sympathy just extends to understanding that to some people, Kickstarter represents a grassroots mechanism wherein people can send a message when traditional funding fails. You know, crowdfunding was perceived as one of the following:

A.) A last ditch effort to secure funding when every other option failed.

B.) A means by which the fans could truly take ownership of a project they're passionate about.

Mind you, that's obviously not what it HAS to be, I agree. I'm just saying that I see the argument that crowdfunding was intended to be an alternative method for funding, not one to be co-opted by publishers that are capable of throwing their own money at these projects.

 

[Krejlooc]

Kickstarter is for projects where the potential appeal or the return value for investment is low/uncertain.

No it's not. It for anything anybody wants to put up on kickstarter.

 

[Wavebossa]

My sympathy just extends to understanding that to some people, Kickstarter represents a grassroots mechanism wherein people can send a message when traditional funding fails. You know, crowdfunding was perceived as one of the following:

A.) A last ditch effort to secure funding when every other option failed.

B.) A means by which the fans could truly take ownership of a project they're passionate about.

Mind you, that's obviously not what it HAS to be, I agree. I'm just saying that I see the argument that crowdfunding was intended to be an alternative method for funding, not one to be co-opted by publishers that are capable of throwing their own money at these projects.

Ok, well at least now I fully understand where you are coming from. I guess I've never had that view of crowdfunding from the onset, so maybe that's why this whole thread has been so confusing to me.

I may not agree with those limitations on the concept of crowdfunding, but I understand what you are saying.

 

[Audible Phonetics]

Everything should be Kickstarted with early release. We actually might get better quality games.

Agreed. I love how Kickstarter gives a platform for the developer and prospective gamers to interface and know what to expect.

 

[duckroll]

Kickstarter is for projects where the potential appeal or the return value for investment is low/uncertain.

Your idea of what Kickstarter is and what it actually is seems different.

https://www.kickstarter.com/hello

1. Kickstarter is a new way to fund creative projects.

We’re a home for everything from films, games, and music to art, design, and technology. Kickstarter is full of projects, big and small, that are brought to life through the direct support of people like you. Since our launch in 2009, 8.9 million people have pledged more than $1.8 billion, funding 87,000 creative projects. Thousands of creative projects are raising funds on Kickstarter right now.

2. Each project is independently created.

The filmmakers, musicians, artists, and designers you see on Kickstarter have complete control over and responsibility for their projects. Kickstarter is a platform and a resource; we’re not involved in the development of the projects themselves. Anyone can launch a project on Kickstarter as long as it follows our rules.

5. Creative works were funded this way for centuries.

Mozart, Beethoven, Whitman, Twain, and other artists funded works in similar ways — not just with help from large patrons, but by soliciting money from smaller patrons, often called subscribers. In return for their support, these subscribers might have received an early copy or special edition of the work. Kickstarter is an extension of this model, turbocharged by the web.

Kickstarter was never meant to be a platform just for obscure or risky projects. It's a funding model for anything and anyone who wants to take part in supporting creative works of any type. From commercial companies to people working out of their garage, as long as you have an idea that resonates with others and they're willing to fund you, you're good to go.

The "Kickstarter should only be for those who -really need it-" concept is just a misguided notion which has no basis in reality.

 

[mbmonk]

Why shouldn't publisher kickstart all new IP's and remakes of old titles, if this method is acceptable? If it's just about 'gauging interest", then the only thing a publisher should green light with their own cash is sequels of recent games that are less of a risk (Gears 4, COD X, Forza 6, etc.).

Spend their money on sure hits and then kickstart all new IPs and anything that is remotely risky.

Ubi should have kickstarted Watch Dogs. Why should they take 100% of the risk. Let gamers put "their money where their mouth is". If they want new IP, then fund it before hand.

I think the "put money where mouth" argument is flawed for multiple reasons. Mainly because people will put the money down if the game is 'good' and presents value relative to the competition it faces in the market upon it's release, and if the consumer still has money ( job loss, have a baby, etc. ).

The reason I don't kickstart projects is because I prefer not to put my money down until I know what I am getting for it. That is why I don't do season passes.

 

[FF Seraphim]

In fact I wrote it's possible Sony will cover the marketing stuff.

This is going to be an interesting game for Sony to market, if they indeed do that, since its been what 14 years since Shenmue 2 came out? I remember the story, but not all of it. Either they need to do some sort of graphic novel retelling or something to grab's people's interest other than the core gamer.

 

[test_account]

This is going to be an interesting game for Sony to market, if they indeed do that, since its been what 14 years since Shenmue 2 came out? I remember the story, but not all of it. Either they need to do some sort of graphic novel retelling or something to grab's people's interest other than the core gamer.

Yeah, i think that is likely, some introduction in the begining of the game that tells the story.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The real abuse here is that after all this time, getting shat on and laughed at by every other fanbase for not getting a continuation of their series, Shenmue fans finally get the game they've wanted all this time, and people are STILL telling them that they shouldn't have it. Because reasons. I feel bad for them!

Same. Like I said, I understand being a fan of a niche cult-like following for a game.

I am a huge Team ICO fan, and we know how that went the past 5-7 years (I cannot believe it has been that long, feels like yesterday now).

But I am all for this if it gets gamers who are truly passionate behind it.

It is definitely getting more apparent the younger generations just do not get this. I say KS the hell out of games if it gets gamers the classics they adored.

Kickstarter was never meant to be a platform just for obscure or risky projects. It's a funding model for anything and anyone who wants to take part in supporting creative works of any type. From commercial companies to people working out of their garage, as long as you have an idea that resonates with others and they're willing to fund you, you're good to go.

The "Kickstarter should only be for those who -really need it-" concept is just a misguided notion which has no basis in reality.

Yep, Hollywood has been using KSer or GoFundMe's for years as well.

I would argue there is much more risk in gaming than films, since if it bombs at the box office, home movie sales make up for it.

If games bomb, studios get swallowed up and shut down instantly more often than not.

 

[PdotMichael]

Why shouldn't publisher kickstart all new IP's and remakes of old titles, if this method is acceptable?.

Because they are losing money compared to the more traditional way of funding projects.

It's a good way to reduce the risk but it will never replace traditional funding, especially new IPs and most old IPs don't have the popularity of a Shenmue.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Same. Like I said, I understand being a fan of a niche cult-like following for a game.

I am a huge Team ICO fan, and we know how that went the past 5-7 years (I cannot believe it has been that long, feels like yesterday now).

But I am all for this if it gets gamers who are truly passionate behind it.

It is definitely getting more apparent the younger generations just do not get this. I say KS the hell out of games if it gets gamers the classics they adored.

If you really went down to it, the full wait was even longer as it would be 11 years between Team Ico games when The Last Guardian releases next year. The 2009 announcement only stemmed the fact it was already 4 years since Shadow of the Colossus had already released!

That thought after you finish Shadow of the Colossus: "I can't wait for their next game!" Hooboy, that's some wait.

 

[Infernostew]

Yeah, i think that is likely, some introduction in the begining of the game that tells the story.

The very first stretch goal for Shenmue 3 is Shenmue 1 & 2 cinematics which have already been funded. So it's the same thing they did with Yaluza 3 to catch people up who didn't play the first 2.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Why shouldn't publisher kickstart all new IP's and remakes of old titles, if this method is acceptable? If it's just about 'gauging interest", then the only thing a publisher should green light with their own cash is sequels of recent games that are less of a risk (Gears 4, COD X, Forza 6, etc.).

Spend their money on sure hits and then kickstart all new IPs and anything that is remotely risky.

Ubi should have kickstarted Watch Dogs. Why should they take 100% of the risk. Let gamers put "their money where their mouth is". If they want new IP, then fund it before hand.

I think the "put money where mouth" argument is flawed for multiple reasons. Mainly because people will put the money down if the game is 'good' and presents value relative to the competition it faces in the market upon it's release, and if the consumer still has money ( job loss, have a baby, etc. ).

The reason I don't kickstart projects is because I prefer not to put my money down until I know what I am getting for it. That is why I don't do season passes.

That's totally fine. You don't have to back anything. No big publisher would ever go 100% to Kickstarter to decide their projects, so there will still be plenty games that get made without crowd funding. No one is being coerced into backing. Crowd funding can be a good option for games that otherwise would not get a greenlight. It makes sense for some games.

 

[test_account]

The very first stretch goal for Shenmue 3 is Shenmue 1 & 2 cinematics which have already been funded. So it's the same thing they did with Yaluza 3 to catch people up who didn't play the first 2.

Oh, so that is what that is? I saw the strech goal, but was wondering what it was.

 

[Dreamgazer]

Urgh there are even people on dedicated shenmue forums telling people to stop funding/withdraw pledge.

 

[PdotMichael]

Urgh there are even people on dedicated shenmue forums telling people to stop funding/withdraw pledge.

Fuck Sony and the option of getting a cheap copy of Shenmue 3!

 

[Krejlooc]

Urgh there are even people on dedicated shenmue forums telling people to stop funding/withdraw pledge.

lmao this is like telling the ocean to stop being wet.

 

[DeepEnigma]

If you really went down to it, the full wait was even longer as it would be 11 years between Team Ico games when The Last Guardian releases next year. The 2009 announcement only stemmed the fact it was already 4 years since Shadow of the Colossus had already released!

That thought after you finish Shadow of the Colossus: "I can't wait for their next game!" Hooboy, that's some wait.

Oh yeah, my Fureathers are ready!!!

Urgh there are even people on dedicated shenmue forums telling people to stop funding/withdraw pledge.

And not a single one of them is a fan of the series. People are pathetic. Focus your fight on something more plausible in life.

My platform of choice did not do this, so I am going to shit pudding on your hopes and dreams (or attempt to at least).

 

[IrishNinja]

way too much concern trolling about, can't help it's largely made of folks either not prepared to eat crow on their narratives or simply own the wrong platforms....nevermind age-old FUD about the budgeting

So you prefer no game?

I don't see this as a binary choice.

you really should. this is what we got after nearly a decade and a half, with no viable options present in the future.

I'm a fan of any approach that gets me Shenmue freaking Three.

all that needs to be said, really

Urgh there are even people on dedicated shenmue forums telling people to stop funding/withdraw pledge.

those aren't people wait where are you looking? im not seeing that at shenmuedojo, and not checking back on sega's forums for reasons

 

[superseohyun]

Why shouldn't publisher kickstart all new IP's and remakes of old titles, if this method is acceptable? If it's just about 'gauging interest", then the only thing a publisher should green light with their own cash is sequels of recent games that are less of a risk (Gears 4, COD X, Forza 6, etc.).

Spend their money on sure hits and then kickstart all new IPs and anything that is remotely risky.

Ubi should have kickstarted Watch Dogs. Why should they take 100% of the risk. Let gamers put "their money where their mouth is". If they want new IP, then fund it before hand.

I think the "put money where mouth" argument is flawed for multiple reasons. Mainly because people will put the money down if the game is 'good' and presents value relative to the competition it faces in the market upon it's release, and if the consumer still has money ( job loss, have a baby, etc. ).

The reason I don't kickstart projects is because I prefer not to put my money down until I know what I am getting for it. That is why I don't do season passes.

lol good luck with that. If they think we putting up money for a long dead classic means we will kickstarting anything, then good on them.

 

[IrishNinja]

so COD and Shenmue - games literally near the opposite ends of the spectrum - are now comparable, because words mean nothing and the points don't matter

sensational

 

[Lynn616]

Not much of an issue after I found out you can pull your money at anytime.

 

[IrishNinja]

Not much of an issue after I found out you can pull your money at anytime.

literally cannot imagine why anyone waiting for this nearly as long as the rest of us would want to do this, though

 

[R_thanatos]

No it's not. It for anything anybody wants to put up on kickstarter.

that was my point of view on how i choose what to back or not.i should have been more precise in the sentence.

 

[Sera O]

Uhu, I know. And Witcher 3 is also a BIG, open world game. I'm pretty sure that 40 milion would be enough to deliver a great Shenmue, even today. UE4 represents a great way to cut development costs.

Just tried to find some comparisons and I know this is a different sector from software development, but wow, this is not a trivial wage difference. I don't think Shenmue 3 is going to be a huuuuuge budget game or anything, but using Witcher 3's budget as a comparator for anything made in Japan/US is a bad idea - they are playing easy mode.

Quick, poach CD Projekt dev staff!

 

[Krejlooc]

Yu suzuki is reassembling the core AM2 staff to work on shenmue 3. There is no other team in the world I would rather have working on shenmue 3.

 

[FoxSpirit]

Right. They couldn't fully fund it. The target would most definitely be some negligible amount in the grand scheme of things. But the question is would them launching a $2 million (for example) Kickstarter seem sleazy?

They can try but who would buy?
I have enough Assassin's Creed already, what are they gonna promise? New gameplay? Why the kickstarter?

Most people would say, "Okay, have sales become that bad? Then let it die."
I know I would.

 

[Euryd1ce]

According to this new interview with Yu Suzuki and Cédric Biscay, Cédric Biscay and his company Shibuya Productions, are deeply involved. They fund the PC version, and they will promote the game

There is a page about Shenmue 3 on the company website : http://www.shibuya-productions.com/f...ml#shenmue-iii

So it's not just Sony

 

[Steve Youngblood]

so COD and Shenmue - games literally near the opposite ends of the spectrum - are now comparable, because words mean nothing and the points don't matter

sensational

I'm not sure if this is a reaction to me or not but if it is I assure you that you are completely misunderstanding my point if you think I'm angling at them being the same or similar. Really, I feel like I've meandered about typing a lot of words to try to be painstakingly clear here as to why I mention Call of Duty. And it was to try to illustrate that some people are worried about a perceived slippery slope wherein some are concerned about the role of games being backed that also have big publisher money behind them. The best example I could think to highlight as "big game that wouldn't be met with high consumer goodwill for crowdfunding" was Call of Duty. So, the questions I was asking were the following:

1.) Where should we draw the line in terms of assessing whether or not a game is "worthy" (for lack of a better term)?

2.) Do we even need to draw the line at all?

Several people in here -- notably Wavebossa and my colleague duckroll -- are asserting that the answer to number two is "no." There is no "worthiness" criteria that determines whether a game deserves crowdfunding money. I don't necessarily disagree with them. I argued much earlier in the thread as well that I like to keep my guidelines as simple as possible so as to avoid appearing hypocritical. I think it's much simpler to say anyone should be allowed to Kickstart anything and there's nothing inherently nefarious about it.

However, like I said, I also can't shake a slight feeling of uneasiness that big publishers probably don't need to crowdfund known quantities. If Call of Duty or Assassins Creed Or FIFA or Madden showed up with Kickstarter campaigns, I'm not sure how I would feel about it.

In closing, my point was never to lay some rhetorical GOTCHA! trap on people by trying to argue that Yu Suzuki kickstarting Shenmue III is no different than Activision kickstarting Call of Duty. I was just trying to illustrate with an extreme example why some people become uneasy about Kickstarter being used to supplement financing/mitigate risk when there are other known investors that are the real financial muscle behind a project.

 

[Retrocore9]

Now that the dust has settled and we're happy that shenmue 3 is coming, I think its safe to say this was a total abuse of kickstarter. They knew that it was going to get funded. The 2 million was never needed as sony spends that on private planes and hotels. It was a pure publicity stunt which worked but still isnt right

 

[Nzyme32]

According to this new interview with Yu Suzuki and Cédric Biscay, Cédric Biscay and his company Shibuya Productions, are deeply involved. They fund the PC version, and they will promote the game

There is a page about Shenmue 3 on the company website : http://www.shibuya-productions.com/f...ml#shenmue-iii

So it's not just Sony

Yep. As far as Sony are concerned, they have funded an undisclosed amount and will help with marketing - that's it. The game itself is pretty much third party - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRZzuTwTEUE

 

[Infernostew]

Now that the dust has settled and we're happy that shenmue 3 is coming, I think its safe to say this was a total abuse of kickstarter. They knew that it was going to get funded. The 2 million was never needed as sony spends that on private planes and hotels. It was a pure publicity stunt which worked but still isnt right

Ugh... I knew that unleashing the juniors post e3 would lead to a ton of shitposting. First of all, no one knew for sure this kickstarter would be funded, let alone how quickly it would happen. Second, Sony seems to be one of a few companies contributing additional funds probably triggered because of the kickstarter hitting its funding goal (I wouldn't be surprised if sega was putting some cash in too). It's not a PR stunt, this is Yu's project..

 

[RichiRamjag]

I'm not sure if this is a reaction to me or not but if it is I assure you that you are completely misunderstanding my point if you think I'm angling at them being the same or similar. Really, I feel like I've meandered about typing a lot of words to try to be painstakingly clear here as to why I mention Call of Duty. And it was to try to illustrate that some people are worried about a perceived slippery slope wherein some are concerned about the role of games being backed that also have big publisher money behind them. The best example I could think to highlight as "big game that wouldn't be met with high consumer goodwill for crowdfunding" was Call of Duty. So, the questions I was asking were the following:

1.) Where should we draw the line in terms of assessing whether or not a game is "worthy" (for lack of a better term)?

2.) Do we even need to draw the line at all?

Several people in here -- notably Wavebossa and my colleague duckroll -- are asserting that the answer to number two is "no." There is no "worthiness" criteria that determines whether a game deserves crowdfunding money. I don't necessarily disagree with them. I argued much earlier in the thread as well that I like to keep my guidelines as simple as possible so as to avoid appearing hypocritical. I think it's much simpler to say anyone should be allowed to Kickstart anything and there's nothing inherently nefarious about it.

However, like I said, I also can't shake a slight feeling of uneasiness that big publishers probably don't need to crowdfund known quantities. If Call of Duty or Assassins Creed Or FIFA or Madden showed up with Kickstarter campaigns, I'm not sure how I would feel about it.

In closing, my point was never to lay some rhetorical GOTCHA! trap on people by trying to argue that Yu Suzuki kickstarting Shenmue III is no different than Activision kickstarting Call of Duty. I was just trying to illustrate with an extreme example why some people become uneasy about Kickstarter being used to supplement financing/mitigate risk when there are other known investors that are the real financial muscle behind a project.

I don't feel as a line needs drawing. People will find what they like. This particular game obviously touched a lot of people and got them to show support. I'd hope that folks would be smart enough to not let it become a trend, but even so, if people want to fund a COD kickstarter, then who am I to tell them they're wrong. I actually like that we have the power to show developers that we actually want a product in this way. Especially if there are some kickstarter perks added in.

Ugh... I knew that unleashing the juniors post e3 would lead to a ton of shitposting. First of all, no one knew for sure this kickstarter would be funded, let alone how quickly it would happen. Second, Sony seems to be one of a few companies contributing additional funds probably triggered because of the kickstarter hitting its funding goal (I wouldn't be surprised if sega was putting some cash in too). It's not a PR stunt, this is Yu's project..

Hey, cut us juniors some slack. =p

 

[Boke1879]

Now that the dust has settled and we're happy that shenmue 3 is coming, I think its safe to say this was a total abuse of kickstarter. They knew that it was going to get funded. The 2 million was never needed as sony spends that on private planes and hotels. It was a pure publicity stunt which worked but still isnt right

I guess you know how this industry works? Were you this outraged when Sony did the same thing for Amplitude?

 

[EricTheRed]

Sorry if I sound like a bit of an idiot saying this but surely it's not that difficult to see that the kickstarter was used to 'prove' to Sony how much interest there was in the game and they will contribute to the budget in relation to how much the kickstarter makes? Don't forget there was a large portion of people who believed there was very little interest in Shenmue 3 in 2015.

 

[Elandyll]

It absolutely was. They walked the creator of the franchise out on stage during their E3 presentation. He didn't walk out during any other presentation.

I honestly don't know how anybody thought that Sony didn't have at least some modicum of involvement. It's mind blowing to me that people think the wool has been pulled over their eyes somehow. Absolutely mind blowing.

Somehow I'm pretty sure they don't actually think that.

This is all a (thinly veiled) mound of salt and port begging, all in one.

The moment Suzuki walked on stage, you had to know.

 

[Infernostew]

Hey, cut us juniors some slack. =p

I know, I know. #notalljuniors