Support NeoGAF

[Stephen Colbert]

Fermi was slow going and delayed a bit, but in the end, it met all expectations and came out on top performance wise I would say. Maxwell might get delayed to 2014, but I think it will meet their claims.

Next generation starts next year with the A9600.

Xperia Play could actually be a contender if it adopted the Nova for a late-2012 model.

Is that strictly a mobile processor? Would be neat to see the Xperia Play 2 and iPhone 6 wind up with this..

Nova A9600 and PowerVR Series 6

http://www.stericsson.com/press_releases/NovaThor.jsp

Do we know anything about the six series or when it'll be available.

According to Wikipedia, we don't. However, the 5 series powering the NGP is built on 65nm. It's probable the 6 series will drop down to 40nm, no?

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

I could have sworn I have heard a Sony figurehead say that the next step after Blu Ray is purely online, streaming media from a cloud. A 1TB PS4 could push that evolution. And it would still have the Blu Ray disc (Which I don't see a need for upgrading since they've yet to even come near full potential)

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the PS4 is a Wii-like package: focused on improving gameplay instead of new technology. A breakaway DualShock 4 controller that operates like the Wii+nunchuk, in addition to whatever the most powerful GPU (AMD) coming this year and maybe one of the more powerful AMD processors, all packed with a blu-ray player and a 1TB+ HD in a small Wii-esque box. All in addition to some awesome streaming services for a fee (Hopefully more akin to Sega TV rather than this PSN+ bollocks). If a 4-core+ (or 6-core!) CPU cannot emulate the Cell, then just tell upgraders to keep their PS3s. It should still handle PS1, PS2, PSP, and Mini's quite well

Oh yea, make PSP games playable on PS4 and NGP.

Sony's seen the errors of trying to push the envelope too far. They would be fools if they don't try to become a bit more moderate.

The only thing I can think of that would be a sweet innovation and not be too out there would be a return of do-it-all controllers. Dual Shock 4 could have a built in speaker/mic, LCD screen, breakaway controller with Move support, and more.

Fanboy Specs:

CPU: 6-Core or 8-Core BullDozer AMD CPU
GPU: Radeon 6970M or 6990M
4 - 6GB RAM
32GB SSD reserved for OS, Game, and Performance Enhancing use
1TB HDD
Blu-Ray Drive
$299

Make it so

 

[jeff_rigby]

http://www.geek.com/articles/games/microsoft-starts-hiring-team-members-to-design-the-xbox-720-2011038/

In other words, Sony was right: a ten year lifespan is extremely likely for this generation of consoles, and we imagine the same will be true for the next gen as well. It just takes at least that long for game developers to figure out how to optimally leverage the technology of a console and get the most out of it. And when a console seems a little worn-around-the-tooth, a functionality-increasing add-on like the Kinect or Move can always be introduced to give your old console some new life.

With that out of the way, don’t get too excited when we say that Microsoft has just posted a series of job opening announcements that suggest that they are ramping up for production of the third-gen Xbox, to join a team responsible for “defining and delivering next generation console architectures.” We’re not going to see the Xbox 720 until 2015 in all likelihood. Still, isn’t it encouraging that Microsoft is at least looking for a design verification engineer, a graphics hardware architect and an audio/video hardware architect this far out? If it takes ten years for devs to make a current-gen console really shine, I suppose five years to design the next-generation isn’t beyond-the-pale.

 

[Rham]

http://www.geek.com/articles/games/microsoft-starts-hiring-team-members-to-design-the-xbox-720-2011038/

Their is a whole thread dedicated to this specific topic.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=423724

 

[Lagspike_exe]

There is no point in promoting 4k for mainstream use. The average consumer doesn't need more than 1080p and not even Apple will be able to convince them otherwise. Mainstream won't bite it.

 

[Oni Jazar]

There is no point in promoting 4k for mainstream use. The average consumer doesn't need more than 1080p and not even Apple will be able to convince them otherwise. Mainstream won't bite it.

I agree. I was a huge proponent of Blu-ray and HD resolutions but 4k is just too much diminishing returns.

 

[kuroshiki]

Fanboy Specs:

CPU: 6-Core or 8-Core BullDozer AMD CPU
GPU: Radeon 6970M or 6990M
4 - 6GB RAM
32GB SSD reserved for OS, Game, and Performance Enhancing use
1TB HDD
Blu-Ray Drive
$299

Make it so

Not going to happen.
More appropriate spec would be

2G RAM,
Hacked and slashed version of Geforce 460m
CPU either improved Cell or ARM designed octa-core processor.
Blu-ray Drive.
120GB HDD.

$299.

 

[thuway]

I could have sworn I have heard a Sony figurehead say that the next step after Blu Ray is purely online, streaming media from a cloud. A 1TB PS4 could push that evolution. And it would still have the Blu Ray disc (Which I don't see a need for upgrading since they've yet to even come near full potential)

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the PS4 is a Wii-like package: focused on improving gameplay instead of new technology. A breakaway DualShock 4 controller that operates like the Wii+nunchuk, in addition to whatever the most powerful GPU (AMD) coming this year and maybe one of the more powerful AMD processors, all packed with a blu-ray player and a 1TB+ HD in a small Wii-esque box. All in addition to some awesome streaming services for a fee (Hopefully more akin to Sega TV rather than this PSN+ bollocks). If a 4-core+ (or 6-core!) CPU cannot emulate the Cell, then just tell upgraders to keep their PS3s. It should still handle PS1, PS2, PSP, and Mini's quite well

Oh yea, make PSP games playable on PS4 and NGP.

Sony's seen the errors of trying to push the envelope too far. They would be fools if they don't try to become a bit more moderate.

The only thing I can think of that would be a sweet innovation and not be too out there would be a return of do-it-all controllers. Dual Shock 4 could have a built in speaker/mic, LCD screen, breakaway controller with Move support, and more.

Fanboy Specs:

CPU: 6-Core or 8-Core BullDozer AMD CPU
GPU: Radeon 6970M or 6990M
4 - 6GB RAM
32GB SSD reserved for OS, Game, and Performance Enhancing use
1TB HDD
Blu-Ray Drive
$299

Make it so

Did you see the report about the Maxwell ? 16X the performance of today's cards. Yeah Nvidia GPU it is with a beefed up Cell and probably 16gb of ram. This is 2013 after all.

 

[thuway]

http://www.geek.com/articles/games/microsoft-starts-hiring-team-members-to-design-the-xbox-720-2011038/

This is awesome news. I don't mind being stuck in this gen for a few more years just as long the next-gen delievers performance beyond my wildest dreams.

for all of those that want 299, stick to your ps3/360s. I'm sure down ports will exist. Let the high end market thrive .

 

[jonezer4]

The ppi of a 42 inch 1080p tv is only 62 (the iPhone 4's ppi is 331). The world will be demanding higher ppi screens soon enough. A 4k 42 inch tv (ppi of ~140) should suffice for the next decade.

But an iPhone is designed to always be < 2.5' from your face (often closer). To compare the pixel density of a TV I'm likely sitting 10 feet from to an iPhone isn't logical.

4K is ridiculous, and sounds like the next Super Audio CD.

HD adoption was helped by the switchover to digital broadcasting, HD is more than enough for the average consumer. And convenience will trump quality, as had happened with music. On-demand and streaming will win-out.

Agreed. Plus, the major cable companies (or Comcast at the very least) still, be it due to legitimate limitations or sheer frugality, compress their 720p HD signal to the point where they often look like complete ass displaying anything with even a moderate amount of change/motion. I don't anticipate them successfully making the jump to sending 8x the pixels in the near future, and I can't see a significant number of consumers purchasing a new TV that's only going to benefit games and possibly Blu-Rays.

 

[AndyD]

But an iPhone is designed to always be < 2.5' from your face (often closer). To compare the pixel density of a TV I'm likely sitting 10 feet from to an iPhone isn't logical.



Agreed. Plus, the major cable companies (or Comcast at the very least) still, be it due to legitimate limitations or sheer frugality, compress their 720p HD signal to the point where they often look like complete ass displaying anything with even a moderate amount of change/motion. I don't anticipate them successfully making the jump to sending 8x the pixels in the near future, and I can't see a significant number of consumers purchasing a new TV that's only going to benefit games and possibly Blu-Rays.

Right. Comparing an Iphone and a HDTV in resolution and pi is ridiculous. Unless you sit the same distance away from both devices.

And I also agree that broadcast cant even deliver 1080p in a quality fashion, let alone anything else, now or for the foreseeable near future.

 

[LyR]

wow, this thread is hilarious, neogaf at it's best

do you guys know how long it takes to develop a consoles (electronic devices in general) ... how much Research & Development they've to do, how many trial & errors they go through, How many billions they have to spend. It's nothing like building a new PC gaming rig or something like that.

for prototype/pre production til the final product it takes at least half a decade (a AAA game needs at least 2 years development time ... everyone who isn't an idiot can assume that developing new hardware is much more taxing than a game)

PS4 development started right after the PS3 was released ... well actually way before that ... during the PS3 development, for instance some features planned for the PS3 have been scrapped quickly because they were too advanced (which means expensive to produce and buggy)

just like Microsoft and Nintendo do

We started thinking about the next generation before we shipped the Xbox 360. It doesn't start with a date. It starts way upstream with silicon development. From that comes a series of data points. You start making early technology choices. It's an evolving thing. Stuff doesn't become concrete until you get inside a window of when you have to ship, more than 18 months or so out." Source

Microsoft EMEA veep Chris Lewis says the company is already working on its next next-generation console because "we have to".

Preliminary work is already under way, he told UK games site Kikizo.

"You can't sit back on your laurels in this business - the consumer won't let you, the developers certainly won't let us. So that's happening right now," he said.

The research and development practices of the console division are "no different than any other part of Microsoft" though, he insisted.

The news that Microsoft is already working on an Xbox 360 successor won't come as much surprise, mind - having been last to market with its first Xbox, the company was first to market in the next generation.

Source plus ATI/AMD win GPU contract for next Xbox

Ubi Soft Montreal and some other big 3rd party developers already got very early pre production/prototype SDKs of the next gen consoles

btw. this is what SDK prototypes look like, early 2005 PS3 SDK - early 2006 model

almost forgot, playstation4 games in development says sony

right know they've a GPU problem, which could lead to a fall 2013 release (earliest)

but what's even worse is the PS3+ talk ... thank god many of you will never be in the position to run a buisness =P

here is what PS3+ would accomplish (...and not)

1.It would confuse the consumer/developer and only hardcore geeks would consider it (big minority... too big and they already have their high end PC rig)

2. you can already play almost all games in 1080p (upscaled) and older games can't be patched, you can't rewrite and optimize an entire engine to put out 1080p native and 16xMSAA with a patch, no developer in the right mind would do this and the publisher wouldn't allow it anyway (going back in the production phase to upgrade a game costs money)

3. people would rather wait for the real PS4

4. the N64 DD, Sega 32x and PSP Go are known for their huge success... usually companies learn from mistakes

5. the only thing I could see them doing is bringing back BC Link

to Stephen Colbert, stop day dreaming ... not one of your geek phantasies will come true in the next 10 years, and is there a reason why you post everything twice in the same thread ?! (already posted in febuary)

4k will be the next 3D = nobody but enthusiasts care at the moment (and it seems that it won't change in the next 5 to 10 years), broadcast studios just upgraded to HD (costs a tremendous amount of money to broadcast HD content, let alone the storage capacity would've to increase drastically for 4k content), people love their netflix and other HD streaming devices, the average internet speed would be a huge bottleneck for ultra HD content (fact: internet technology/bandwith and batteries are the slowest evolving technologies) let's even forget about streaming, think about the PSN Game/Video store and the file sizes, and Sony already loses money with PSN

I'm not saying that the next Playstation console won't support ultra HD but they will never have the same success as with CDs/DVDs/Blu Rays because this time people won't see a difference between 1080p and 4k on their 32" - 60" TVs

the same case with (modern)3D, the technology is too young people don't want glasses to watch 3D content, and people aren't gonna buy a new TV which doesn't show any improvements unless you buy a 100" TV...

hell, it's the year 2011 and the HD/Full HD generation isn't 100% established and some of you already talk about ultra HD oO

 

[FoxSpirit]

LyR, they could always do some industry espionage at Intel who just recently reported they are on track with their H2 2011 plan for 22nm.

edit: actually, further down in the topic:

TSMC has many clients for its 28nm process, including Xilinx, Altera, Nvidia, AMD and Qualcomm, and has attained tape-out for 71 IC products. The 28nm production capacity will be fully utilized by the end of 2011, TSMC noted.

In addition to 28nm, TSMC has urged its suppliers of equipment and materials to speed up R&D for 20nm process.

Even by fall 2012, 22nm should be possible. If fall 2013 is a problem then Intel certainly hired some black mages or everybody else has a serious mindblockade.

And on 3D, I wouldn't mind the glasses... but they quality leaves a lot to be desired, featuring strong IQ reduction as well as a good amount of eyestrain. And from 3DS reports, autostereoscopy won't change that either. 3D should really not be more than a minor point of next gen, and 4k? Sorry, my 40" (which is all that my room can take) doesn't care at all. Not to mention all the stuff LyR mentioned, Studio guys were already maoning in my general direction about the upgrade cost to regular HD >.<

 

[duk]

wow, this thread is hilarious, neogaf at it's best

do you guys know how long it takes to develop a consoles (electronic devices in general) ... how much Research & Development they've to do, how many trial & errors they go through, How many billions they have to spend. It's nothing like building a new PC gaming rig or something like that.

for prototype/pre production til the final product it takes at least half a decade (a AAA game needs at least 2 years development time ... everyone who isn't an idiot can assume that developing new hardware is much more taxing than a game)

PS4 development started right after the PS3 was released ... well actually way before that ... during the PS3 development, for instance some features planned for the PS3 have been scrapped quickly because they were too advanced (which means expensive to produce and buggy)

just like Microsoft and Nintendo do






Ubi Soft Montreal and some other big 3rd party developers already got very early pre production/prototype SDKs of the next gen consoles

btw. this is what SDK prototypes look like, early 2005 PS3 SDK - early 2006 model

almost forgot, playstation4 games in development says sony

right know they've a GPU problem, which could lead to a fall 2013 release (earliest)

but what's even worse is the PS3+ talk ... thank god many of you will never be in the position to run buisness =P

here is what PS3+ would accomplish (...and not)

1.It would confuse the consumer/developer and only hardcore geeks would consider it (big minority... too big and they already have their high end PC rig)

2. you can already play almost all games in 1080p (upscaled) and older games can't be patched, you can't rewrite and optimize an entire engine to put out 1080p native and 16xMSAA with a patch, no developer in the right mind would do this and the publisher wouldn't allow it anyway (going back in the production phase to upgrade a game costs money)

3. people would rather wait for the real PS4

4. the N64 DD, Sega 32x and PSP Go are known for their huge success... usually companies learn from mistakes

5. the only thing I could see them doing is bringing back BC Link

to Stephen Colbert, stop day dreaming ... not one of your geek phantasies will come true in the next 10 years, and is there a reason why you post everything twice in the same thread ?! (already posted in febuary)

4k will be the next 3D = nobody but enthusiasts care at the moment (and it seems that it won't change in the next 5 to 10 years), broadcast studios just upgraded to HD (costs a tremendous amount of money to broadcast HD content, let alone the storage capacity would've to increase drastically for 4k content), people love their netflix and other HD streaming devices, the average internet speed would be a huge bottleneck for ultra HD content (fact: internet technology/bandwith and batteries are the slowest evolving technologies) let's even forget about streaming, think about the PSN Game/Video store and the file sizes, and Sony already loses money with PSN

I'm not saying that the next Playstation console won't support ultra HD but they will never have the same success as with CDs/DVDs/Blu Rays because this time they won't see a difference between 1080p and 4k on their 32" - 60" TVs

the same case with (modern)3D, the technology is too young people don't want glasses to watch 3D content, and people aren't gonna buy a new TV which doesn't show any improvements unless you buy a 100" TV...

hell, it's the year 2011 and the HD/Full HD generation isn't 100% established and some of you already talk about ultra HD oO

stop bringing in level-headedness in this thread!

 

[jeff_rigby]

do you guys know how long it takes to develop a consoles (electronic devices in general) ... how much Research & Development they've to do, how many trial & errors they go through, How many billions they have to spend. It's nothing like building a new PC gaming rig or something like that.

for prototype/pre production til the final product it takes at least half a decade (a AAA game needs at least 2 years development time ... everyone who isn't an idiot can assume that developing new hardware is much more taxing than a game)

PS4 development started right after the PS3 was released ... well actually way before that ... during the PS3 development, for instance some features planned for the PS3 have been scrapped quickly because they were too advanced (which means expensive to produce and buggy)

just like Microsoft and Nintendo do

Ubi Soft Montreal and some other big 3rd party developers already got very early pre production/prototype SDKs of the next gen consoles

btw. this is what SDK prototypes look like, early 2005 PS3 SDK - early 2006 model

almost forgot, playstation4 games in development says sony

right know they've a GPU problem, which could lead to a fall 2013 release (earliest)

but what's even worse is the PS3+ talk ... thank god many of you will never be in the position to run a buisness =P

here is what PS3+ would accomplish (...and not)

1.It would confuse the consumer/developer and only hardcore geeks would consider it (big minority... too big and they already have their high end PC rig)

2. you can already play almost all games in 1080p (upscaled) and older games can't be patched, you can't rewrite and optimize an entire engine to put out 1080p native and 16xMSAA with a patch, no developer in the right mind would do this and the publisher wouldn't allow it anyway (going back in the production phase to upgrade a game costs money)

3. people would rather wait for the real PS4

4. the N64 DD, Sega 32x and PSP Go are known for their huge success... usually companies learn from mistakes

5. the only thing I could see them doing is bringing back BC Link

to Stephen Colbert, stop day dreaming ... not one of your geek phantasies will come true in the next 10 years, and is there a reason why you post everything twice in the same thread ?! (already posted in febuary)

4k will be the next 3D = nobody but enthusiasts care at the moment (and it seems that it won't change in the next 5 to 10 years), broadcast studios just upgraded to HD (costs a tremendous amount of money to broadcast HD content, let alone the storage capacity would've to increase drastically for 4k content), people love their netflix and other HD streaming devices, the average internet speed would be a huge bottleneck for ultra HD content (fact: internet technology/bandwith and batteries are the slowest evolving technologies) let's even forget about streaming, think about the PSN Game/Video store and the file sizes, and Sony already loses money with PSN

I'm not saying that the next Playstation console won't support ultra HD but they will never have the same success as with CDs/DVDs/Blu Rays because this time people won't see a difference between 1080p and 4k on their 32" - 60" TVs

the same case with (modern)3D, the technology is too young people don't want glasses to watch 3D content, and people aren't gonna buy a new TV which doesn't show any improvements unless you buy a 100" TV...

hell, it's the year 2011 and the HD/Full HD generation isn't 100% established and some of you already talk about ultra HD oO

Excellent post. I do have some problems with some of it.

2. you can already play almost all games in 1080p (upscaled) and older games can't be patched, you can't rewrite and optimize an entire engine to put out 1080p native and 16xMSAA with a patch, no developer in the right mind would do this and the publisher wouldn't allow it anyway (going back in the production phase to upgrade a game costs money)

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/101/1019535p1.html

An intermediate generation of consoles will come before we see the PS4 and Xbox 720, as the console makers have expired their resources in their efforts in the current generation of consoles.

That's according to Rich Hilleman, Electronic Arts chief creative officer in a recent interview. "I expected we'll see a PlayStation 3.5 before we see a PlayStation 4 and an Xbox 560 before we see an Xbox 720," he told VentureBeat,

RE: PS3.5, "the publisher wouldn't allow it" and "I expected we'll see a PlayStation 3.5 before we see a PlayStation 4" by a publisher. I'm confused. <sigh> Someone is wrong on this issue, some assumption or misunderstanding.

A new cheaper "Slim" type iteration of the PS3 made possible by a smaller die size and less power consumption will not take place for 32nm as mentioned in the OP. One of your cites might explain this as the Taiwan forge is having problems and is skipping 32 nm, jumping to 28. This would delay a new PS3 release by more than 6 months.

What might a new 20nm+ PS3 have in addition to using less power and possibly being fanless. Taking advantage of this to produce a cheaper PS3 would require a complete redesign in any case so why not add the following:

1) Wireless N (may actually be cheaper to include what is now a standard)
2) Faster possibly larger Blu-ray drive (4 layer instead of 2 allowing 4K blu-ray) slightly more expensive but would speed up game loads and might solve issues some games have with higher res - larger textures loading in a timely manner without game pauses FF comes to mind)
3) larger Hard Disk (probably no additional cost)
4) New HDMI output chip that isn't noisy (can't believe Sony allowed a defective design into the Slim) Edit: if the slim has high freq noise at 1080P 4K may not be possible.
5) Faster USB (3) (again, this might be cheaper than special ordering obsolete tech)
6) HDBaseT added to PS3 (adds to cost but would support high end Sony TVs)

And if a PS3.5 is a possible. At 28nm or less, the Cell BE is going to need a retape for at least the pin placement. At the same time, issues discovered might be corrected like; slightly more on-chip cache, more efficient silicon design creating a slightly faster function set (same calls but fewer clock cycles per call). Memory would be cheaper so possibly more memory.

I don't know what issues developers who have been pushing (GT5 comes to mind) the PS3 may have or what changes they would like to see.

 

[Ellis Kim]

In that article, I think when he says "PS3.5," and whatever equivalent for 360, I believe he's specifically referring to a stopgap in what would have been a traditional hardware cycle renewal period, with PS Move and Kinect acting as that stopgap. Its a hardware refresh and a new gameplay platform without actually releasing a new generation.

 

[Afrikan]

I'm surprised no one has posted these patents that were published late last year.....basically an External Processor..that hooks up to the your PS3.

I wonder if the NGP can be used as that similar device.

 

[Diablos]

Mobile gaming is really taking away from consoles. I expect the market to get smaller as the years go on. While there may have been room for three consoles to compete, that may be reduced to two in the next few years. I think it may prove to be smart for Sony to put PS4 on the backburner and really do their homework.

 

[jeff_rigby]

In that article, I think when he says "PS3.5," and whatever equivalent for 360, I believe he's specifically referring to a stopgap in what would have been a traditional hardware cycle renewal period, with PS Move and Kinect acting as that stopgap. Its a hardware refresh and a new gameplay platform without actually releasing a new generation.

EA’s chief creative officer, Rich Hilleman, expects Sony and Microsoft to focus on updates to existing hardware before releasing next generation consoles.

Speaking about the “re-engineering” of the game business at the Hot Chips conference, he said that Sony and Microsoft nearly expired getting the PS3 and Xbox 360 to market, and are therefore not likely to be in any rush to release brand new home consoles.

“I expected we’ll see a PlayStation 3.5 before we see a PlayStation 4 and an Xbox 560 before we see an Xbox 720,” he said, according to VentureBeat.

But why the 3.5 reference? That one name changes what could be read either way into a modified upgrade slightly different in features HALF way to a PS4.

 

[Ellis Kim]

You could be correct "updates to existing hardware" could mean "traditional hardware cycle renewal period". But why the 3.5 reference? That one name changes what could be read either way into a modified upgrade slightly different in features.

We say 2.5D to refer to 3D models moving in a 2D plane. I would take anyone saying anything-.5 with a grain of salt in their inference.

 

[jeff_rigby]

I'm surprised no one has posted these patents that were published late last year.....basically an External Processor..that hooks up to the your PS3.


I wonder if the NGP can be used as that similar device.

There are issues with using Distributed processing to improve game performance for the PS3. The Gigabit network port is too slow to improve (GPU) game play. It's possible to move slower less critical functions out of the PS3 and free up SPUs in the PS3 for more critical routines. Is it worth the cost?

Wireless N is even slower so probably no to a traditional approach to distributed processing between the NGP and PS3. That doesn't mean that Sony can't have some custom features coming for PS3 - NGP use.

 

[jeff_rigby]

We say 2.5D to refer to 3D models moving in a 2D plane. I would take anyone saying anything-.5 with a grain of salt in their inference.

It's not an inference, it's a Quote. Are you saying that he is taking down to us (or the press) and not to take .5 literally?

Hot chips Conference is a professional org. of professionals and as such I would tend to take it as literal rather than as you are taking it. It also fits with the thrust of the reasoning. It's not necessary to mention what is a normal practice in refreshing hardware designs to save money or improve reliability.

Move and Kinect as you mentioned would help support the need to delay a new generation but they are accessories....big ones true. They were also released after his August 2009 lecture.

In any case it's too soon to dismiss this out of hand or to insist it's coming, unless you have something to add that can clear up this difference in our takes.

The company that developed GT5 actually demoed 4K using 4 PS3s with each responsible for 1/4 of the screen and displayed on 4 panels positioned next to each other (synced through the LAN port). IF they did that and have also complained that features were left out of GT5 for the PS3 because of lack of memory......you think they would support a PS3.5? 4K is a big thing in Japan.

In any case I don't think anything will come (refreshed PS3 or PS3.5) before June 2012.

I've seen others speculating on a WiiHD, PS3.5 could be an answer for that.

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/HD-Projector-Wii-2-Blu-ray-Reggie-Fils-aime-Satoru-Iwata,news-10374.html

Immediately after the Game Developers Conference concluded on Friday in San Francisco, rumors began to surface that Nintendo may reveal its next console in June at E3 2011. The news isn't surprising given that the current Nintendo Wii is now coming down off the console mountain as reigning retail king, giving way to Microsoft's Xbox 360. The Wii also turns 5-years-old this year, meaning Nintendo is due for a hardware refresh soon.

So MS will have Silverlight 5 in the Xbox and it's ecosystem with Windows 7 handhelds, Sony will have it's ecosystem with PS3 -NGP and Android handhelds using PS Suite which serves a similar function to Silverlight 5. And Nintendo will have a WiiHD with blu-ray player. 2011 will be interesting.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Maybe this, MS hiring for the next Xbox design:

With that out of the way, don’t get too excited when we say that Microsoft has just posted a series of job opening announcements that suggest that they are ramping up for production of the third-gen Xbox, to join a team responsible for “defining and delivering next generation console architectures.”

Is in direct response to this, Nintendo to announce WiiHD for release (maybe early 2012 or Holiday 2011):

Immediately after the Game Developers Conference concluded on Friday in San Francisco, rumors began to surface that Nintendo may reveal its next console in June at E3 2011. The news isn't surprising given that the current Nintendo Wii is now coming down off the console mountain as reigning retail king, giving way to Microsoft's Xbox 360. The Wii also turns 5-years-old this year, meaning Nintendo is due for a hardware refresh soon.

And the OP piece is now old news and MS is scrambling to produce the next generation.

The Taiwan foundry having issues with 32nm, skipping it to go to 28nm which is delaying next gen GPU would impact Nintendo also. So they must be going with something currently available or soon to be available at the end of this year.

Could they have decided to use what the NGP uses and not having issues with battery life, clock it more than twice as fast, possibly near 2 Ghz. At that clock speed it would be in the PS3 - Xbox 360 class.

With this new news a PS3.5 or stopgap Xbox will probably not happen and all will go for a next generation. MS probably late 2013 and Sony early 2014 (guess +-1year).

Edit: I have to step in here and say I don't know what Sony has/had planned for a PS4, when it could be released economically, when technology would allow and a PS3.5 is still a possible. For sure a MUCH cheaper PS3 to compete with a WiiHD is probable for 2012 and plans for a cheaper PS3 were probably already planned.

 

[Lonely1]

Maybe this, MS hiring for the next Xbox design:



Is in direct response to this, Nintendo to announce WiiHD for release (maybe early 2012 or Holiday 2011):



And the OP piece is now old news and MS is scrambling to produce the next generation.

The Taiwan foundry having issues with 32nm, skipping it to go to 28nm which is delaying next gen GPU would impact Nintendo also. So they must be going with something currently available or soon to be available at the end of this year.

Could they have decided to use what the NGP uses and not having issues with battery life, clock it more than twice as fast, possibly near 2 Ghz. At that clock speed it would be in the PS3 - Xbox 360 class.

With this new news a PS3.5 or stopgap Xbox will probably not happen and all will go for a next generation. MS probably late 2013 and Sony early 2014 (guess).

Could you share your sources?

 

[jeff_rigby]

Could you share your sources?

The sources are all in this thread. In LYR and my last couple of posts and the OP.

There have been rumors of a WiiHD release since 2008 with essentially the same features. The post by MS hiring engineers for a next generation console at this time takes the WiiHD rumor just announced after GDC, and supports it as a possible fact not rumor.

Nintendo could have produced a Wii next generation = a PS3 at any time. As time passed and technology advanced this became easier and cheaper to do.

MS and Sony according to the OP are/were waiting and in LYRs post the problems the Taiwan foundry had with 38nm are delaying and having companies revise plans. So in the OP the PS3 planned 45nm to 32nm PS3 refresh is canceled probably waiting on 22nm+. This makes sense as from reading there would be quite a lot of work to retape/redesign for the drop from 45nm.

For Nintendo this might be looked at as a stumble with a last chance for them to introduce a WiiHD in the same class as PS3 without Sony or MS able to produce their next generation or reduce the cost of their consoles.

 

[[Nintex]]

MS and Nintendo will have something out in 2012 or close to 2012. MS isn't going to let Nintendo beat them to the market with new or even better technology after spending so much to overtake Sony. Nintendo isn't going to sit on their hands as the Xbox brand continues to grow with Kinect and 360. They both have too much at stake to sit idle and wait for the competitor to show their move.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

MS and Nintendo will have something out in 2012 or close to 2012. MS isn't going to let Nintendo beat them to the market with new or even better technology after spending so much to overtake Sony. Nintendo isn't going to sit on their hands as the Xbox brand continues to grow with Kinect and 360. They both have too much at stake to sit idle and wait for the competitor to show their move.

Nintendo has kind of proven it doesn't matter if you release first or last.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Nintendo has kind of proven it doesn't matter if you release first or last.

True, they add some special wow feature to make their blah (average) hardware attractive. More news: http://gadgetynews.com/ninetendo-ds-update-arriving-may/

There’s been chat of a Nintendo Wii 2 or Wii HD for quite some time now – but with the UK release of the 3DS a matter of weeks away (and with a software update) word has it that Ninty is prepping a new console for E3 in June = WiHD.

Yup, even though the Nintendo 3DS is not expected in the UK until the 25th of this month there’s a global upgrade due in a couple months.

Nintendo’s software update will add a bunch of new features to its tri-dimensional handheld gamer.

The software refresh has been confirmed by Nintendo America’s Reggie Fils-Aime and will endow the 3DS with Nintendo’s eShop, a web browser, the DSiWare service and the opportunity to load up any existing DSiWare titles onto the latest generation DS console.

As for what the new Wii will be packing – the rumours that have lasted the longest include that the next gen Wii will be equipped with Blu-ray, a super speedy processor (possibly a quad core number now) and may be endowed with the very curious and confusing addition of an in-built LED projector…

So I'd guess that Nintendo is positioning the 3DS (with web browser) and WiiHD with blu-ray for the same type of ecosystem that Sony is planning with the PS3 - NGP and Android.

 

[Suzzopher]

True, they add some special wow feature to make their blah (average) hardware attractive. More news: http://gadgetynews.com/ninetendo-ds-update-arriving-may/

So I'd guess that Nintendo is positioning the 3DS (with web browser) and WiiHD with blu-ray) for the same type of ecosystem that Sony is planning with the PS3 - NGP and Android.

What the hell are you on about?

 

[jeff_rigby]

What the hell are you on about?

Ecosystem = multiple hardware platforms synergisticly supporting each other to provide features not possible for any one platform alone. (Also in the case of Apple, locks you into only their supported products.) Store - Web browser - Media

It's assumed that we will use a game console attached to a TV to play games and media as well as access web services in the home. It's assumed a portable game platform and other portable platforms will provide those same features outside the home.

You can use the portable to access data stored on the home console or to access media in the home network outside the home. In the home the portable can play through the home console, control the home console, act as a controller (joystick) for the home console and even with the TV off the portable can turn the home game console on and off as well as choose and play media through the home stereo. Much more is possible only limited by imagination.

DLNA, Ultraviolet, CEC are projects Sony has been involved with and the PS3 - PSP remote control and play are a taste of what's to come. Sony, Google, Adobe and others have been behind open STANDARDS for years and the thrust of many of them have as their end game this ecosystem for web, applications, media and web media as well as Games and WebGL games.

Stores are the profit center for all and a balanced effort to lock you into an ecosystem (with more features available to applications designed for and sold inside your ecosystem stores) to only shop in your ecosystem stores is being made with Apple being the most heavy handed and this may start a war between Sony and Apple see links at the bottom.

The Wii can not play DVDs display HD or do any of the things 2011 will bring with Apple, MS and Sony ecosystems (Apple started this idea in 2001, the PS3 design (after Apple proved this idea) supports this). The WiiHD and Nintendo DS could do this. This might be another supporting reason for Nintendo to release the WiiHD this year.

Silverlight 5 to be released this year is Microsoft's way to support Windows 7 - Xbox game and application portability between Windows7 handhelds and Xbox.

PS Suite is Sony's answer to port games and applications between target platforms (Android - NGP and soon PS3) Ultraviolet is the DRM used by Sony for their media service Qriocity. http://www.qriocity.com/us/en/ One account and you can play media on any supported platform (home TV, Game console, Blu-ray player, Android handheld, NGP, phone etc. Same account with no extra charge. You login with the same username and password on all platforms. They just have to support Ultraviolet DRM (or possbily be closed platforms which insures DRM).

Webkit is the feature that helps make this possible. Webkit supports web and media portability and for a webkit port to a platform, the open source libraries needed by webkit provide the infrastructure for many of the ecosystem features.

Top end TVs, Blu-ray players, cell phones, tablets, game portables, game consoles (Coming with the PS3 webkit port) and other CE equipment (even refrigerators) now have webkit installed.

Google introduced what Apple called webkit2 features with multi-threading. This adds as a byproduct the ability for other applications to call and use webkit tools without having to be inside a browser window. HTML5 introduced new features like database functions that require SQLite open source libraries in the platform. There are many libraries required for a webkit that are usable by other applications.

The above is why I have been going on and on about webkit. The Android OS provides the open source libraries required by webkit. Webkit support requires just about everything in a modern PC windows OS. The PS3 to this point and Xbox to a lesser extent has been a game machine with out this support. With a webkit port to the PS3 and to a lesser extent with Silverlight 5 support in the Xbox, both will have OSs that are nearly PC class with support for multiple new features.

Read the following links, Sony and Apple stores media, games and war of the ecosystems:

http://www.maciverse.com/did-apple-piss-off-the-wrong-company.html Apple reacts to Sony providing a better product and pisses off Sony

http://www.techi.com/2011/02/sonys-redemption/ This is Sony's plan, has been their plan and Apple knew it.

The PS3 plays a large part in future plans. It's the Sony living room presence and why Sony felt like they could sell it at a loss to insure it's place. Apple made a mistake in releasing an underpowered Apple TV product for the living room.

Expect the following for Sony TVs, Blu-ray players, PS3, NGP and Android platforms. The PS3 being the inexpensive way to get these new features in the living room as 2011 TVs with webkit are very expensive.

Then, Sony should develop more first-party applications for their platforms. These apps would need to do useful things that will help consumers understand the value that Sony offers — these applications must be unique and memorable. It’s no mistake that some of the most-used applications on a platform like Android, for example, are created by Google. If Sony creates a platform and creates high-quality applications for it, they will, at the very least, earn the respect of consumers and developers.

http://www.infosyncworld.com/reviews/cell-phones/sony-s1-tegra-tablet-will-get-us-qriocity-service/11804.html

MediaMemo reports that Sony today introduced "Music Unlimited powered by Qriocity" for the U.S. market. The subscription-based service ($10 per month) will compete with existing services such as MOG and Rhapsody. Yesterday, the Sony S1 appeared as Sony's first Android 3.0 tablet, which was said to focus 100 percent on Qriocity for music, games, eBooks and video on demand. Given today's news, there's little doubt that the Sony S1 will focus 100 percent on Qriocity in the U.S. too.

Verizon Wireless recently announced that it would start selling the Sony Ericsson Xperia Play this spring. The carrier has already embraced Apple's ecosystem as part of a 4G LTE strategy, and it would certainly be interesting if Qriocity will be the next one to join their party. The Xperia Play will not connect to the 4G LTE network, but we wouldn't mind if the Sony S1 turns out to be 4G LTE ready.

 

[Lazy8s]

A9600 is on 28nm, and it's a mobile chip through and through.

IP cores, like those of PowerVR, are actually adaptable to different fabrication processes and can be manufactured to whichever process size it's retargeted. Imagination Technologies uses 65 nm and 200 MHz as reference points for Series5 SGX in order to quote specific die area and performance numbers that can result.

Typically, MBX based SoCs were produced at 90 nm, SGX at 65 nm, and SGX "XT" like the 543MP cores at 45/40 nm, and NGP's app processor is most certainly launching in a 45/40 nm process.

PowerVR Series6 will start showing up in end product in the second half of 2012 at the earliest, so it'll mostly be produced in 32/28nm SoCs. Apple designs their own application processors, so they may produce something similar to the A9600 for themselves for iPad 4 and the following iPhone though they wouldn't source the A9600 from ST-Ericsson specifically.

The A9600 shows that putting PS3 level graphics in your pocket within a few years wasn't exactly a lofty goal.

 

[Stephen Colbert]

If there's one lesson that Sony should learn from MS, it's that they shouldn't skimp on the GPU. MS sank a ton of money into R&D for their GPU, making sure it's more technologically advanced than the gpus available to PCs at that time, and it panned out for them. They have consistently been getting the best looking multiplatform games this whole gen, and increased game sales as a result. Meanwhile Sony opted to use a dated off the shelf gpu and shot themselves in the foot.

I know several hardcore gamers that buy a new game every few weeks (~10-20 games every single year). And the multiplatform games are almost always bought on the 360 because that has the best looking version of multiplatform games. I'm sure virtually ever gaffer knows several gamers like that, or are such gamers themselves. These people are Microsoft's bread and butter.

Sony would be stupid to not try and win these gamers backs by making the console with the better looking multiplatform games and emulate MS's success with multiplatform games.

The initial losses MS took were the R&D to develop a cutting edge gpu. The initial losses Sony took on the otherhand entirely due to their use of Blu Ray, which has nothing whatsoever to do with graphics. There's no reason for them to skimp on graphics next gen.

If they opt to use a weak gpus, who's this console going to appeal to?

Casuals have no real incentive to upgrade. It's not like 360 and PS3 have bad graphics, and Kinect and Move already offer them anything that next gen motion controls could.

Tech enthusiasts (aka. early adopters) aren't going to be satisfied with a console that is a generation behind the upcoming competitors. And these are also often the same people that buy up the most games. This is a segment you don't want to lose to the competition.

Sony or MS, whoever has the most technically advanced gpu that is the easiest to develop game for, will gobble up the bulk of the multiplatform game sales from multiconsole owners. And hardcore gamers (the ones that buy up ~10 games every year and fuel much of the profit, are almost always multiconsole owners). If you give up sales of multiplatform games from these people to your competitor by releasing a significantly weaker system, you're shooting yourself in the foot, with a shotgun.

Multiplatform games are Microsoft's bread and butter. Losing these sales to the PS4 is not a smart long term strategy. Because Nintendo opted to make a weaker console than compeitors, it has horrible multiplatform and third party game sales, so bad that third parties stopped making games for it for the most part. The Wii succeded because of motion controls and first party icons like Mario, not because of it's third party support. Third party sales, with the very occasional exception, are on life support.

Other than Nintendo staple titles, consumers had no interest in buying third party games on the Wii that look a generation behind games on the 360/PS3 games. Multiplatform sales were pathetic, and the weak graphics was a huge part of the reason why. Do you realize how much it would hurt Microsoft if they lost support from third party developers on account of being significantly behind the PS4 and PC.

I really do think that the gpus in the next-gen consoles will be ahead of today's top line gpus, and it's doable too...

The current "monster" gpus of now will be much much cooler at 28nm. Also much cheaper.

The PS4 in all likelihood will use Nvidia again, show up late 2014 and have Nvidia base the gpu on the monster Nvidia Maxwell architecture.

That's what PC games and the PS4 games will be designed around from 2014-2022 or whenever the next gen ends. Microsoft if they were smart would opt to use something from AMD that is roughly on par, even if they have to wait till 2014 to do so. Microsoft can't survive losing early adopters and tech enthusiasts that also happen to be the exact same people that buy the vast bulk of the games each generation, and they can't afford to lose multiplatform game sales and third parties like Nintendo did.

 

[UntoldDreams]

It wasn't the lack of GPU power which created complex PS3 development it was the Cell processor.

Multiplatform development suffered directly due to this.

 

[Stephen Colbert]

It was because of the lack of GPU power, that several tasks normally performed by GPUs, had to be assigned to the Cell processor in order to create comparable graphics to the 360 version of the same game.

Multiplatform devs have repeatedly talked about how they assign functions they do with the 360's gpu, to the Cell. This is what makes development so complicated, and the Cell still fails to do the functions quite as well as a GPU would unless the code is extremely well optimized.

The games that look good on the PS3, all use engines that were designed from the ground up to use the Cell efficiently to do many of the functions that the GPU would under normal circumstances.

 

[UntoldDreams]

It was because of the lack of GPU power, that several tasks normally performed by GPUs, had to be assigned to the Cell processor in order to create comparable graphics to the 360 version of the same game.

Multiplatform devs have repeatedly talked about how they assign functions they do with the 360's gpu, to the Cell. This is what makes development so complicated, and the Cell still fails to do the functions quite as well as a GPU would unless the code is extremely well optimized.

The games that look good on the PS3, all use engines that were designed from the ground up to use the Cell efficiently to do many of the functions that the GPU would under normal circumstances.

That's not exactly the point though.

Sony (Kuturagi) did not intend for developers to use 10% of the Cell and leverage a GPU to avoid coding in Cell. His intention, for better or worse, was that you WOULD use the cell for these tasks.

Its not like they suddenly realized later "Hey in GPU benchmarks this won't handle the load... we are dumb!". You make it sound like it was a magical discovery missed till later. That is not true they had a full understanding of the specs as they develop hardware.

Their design intention from day one, which is what I meant to highlight, is that the Cell PARADIGM would be accepted which ultimately screwed things over.

They expected the entire development world to fall into line.

Its not that crazy though if you consider the PS2 architecture had 2 vector units inside and that "crazy" design allowed for things like Shadow of Colossus.

 

[jeff_rigby]

It was because of the lack of GPU power, that several tasks normally performed by GPUs, had to be assigned to the Cell processor in order to create comparable graphics to the 360 version of the same game.

Multiplatform devs have repeatedly talked about how they assign functions they do with the 360's gpu, to the Cell. This is what makes development so complicated, and the Cell still fails to do the functions quite as well as a GPU would unless the code is extremely well optimized.

The games that look good on the PS3, all use engines that were designed from the ground up to use the Cell efficiently to do many of the functions that the GPU would under normal circumstances.

Yes and no. The design of the Cell SPU - RSX GPU was to give low level programmable graphics and shader support to the PS3 GPU graphics library. This is what PC GPUs have evolved to support. Most modern GPUs support low level shader commands. Android 2.2 and older does not support modern GPUs; NGP, PS3, PCs and Android 2.3+ do support this.

Both the Xbox GPU and the PS3 SPU-RSX were way in advance of the industry. I discovered this from research and information in posts in this thread.

When the PS3 was released in 2006 the OpenGL ES standard was not yet 1.0 with 2.0 having support for low level programmable and shader support. Sony wrote their own library of graphics calls for use with games because the rest of the industry was still catching up. As that library evolved with contribution from game developers and game engine developers the PS3 games became more impressive; now (opinion) slightly exceeding what's possible on the Xbox.

Please read edited message 169 http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=400534&page=4

The Gstreamer site may give us information on what new features may be coming this year with Android, NGP and PS3. The Gstreamer software stack is used by Sony and there are 150 plugins available for it. The adaptive streaming trick player the PS3 now uses may be based on Gstreamer as might the video editor in the PS3.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Another accessory that might impact the PS3 and PS4 design and feature set is:

wireless-keyboard-features-magical-multitouch-trackpad

Behold the future (of keyboards). New from far away lands comes this $69 wireless slim keyboard with “Smart TouchPad.” See that touchpad in the lower right corner there? It’s a multitouch trackpad that switches to a ten-key number pad — like magic!

The multitouch feature registers a series of two- and three-finger presses for scrolling, zooming, window switching, tapping, and more. The entire keyboard is less than 3/4 of an inch thick and includes 18 hotkeys for launching various programs.

 

[-viper-]

1080p already looks fucking fantastic, and now they're going to push for 4k resolutions? I don't really see how anyone is going to buy it.

I'll be happy with 1080p games and that is that.

 

[H_Prestige]

LOL at the new Wii having a built in projector. I seriously doubt it will even have blu ray.

 

[lunarworks]

LOL at the new Wii having a built in projector. I seriously doubt it will even have blu ray.

That rumour isn't new. The current Wii was rumoured to have one of those at one point.

 

[Mau ®]

Better for me. I have no intention of buying a console anytime soon and I dont really give a fuck about handhelds. Im quite content with my ipad and iphone even if the games are no match for these other handhelds.

 

[Clott]

I don't think Sony or microsoft should waste their time with a .5 gen, I think everyone can wait another 2 years and then we would truly see a new bridge in graphics. Just because Nintendo's hardware is out of date and needs an upgrade does not mean the other need to follow.

We already have received an upgrade with kinect and move, now it's the Wii's turn to catch up.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

I don't think Sony or microsoft should waste their time with a .5 gen, I think everyone can wait another 2 years and then we would truly see a new bridge in graphics. Just because Nintendo's hardware is out of date and needs an upgrade does not mean the other need to follow.

We already have received an upgrade with kinect and move, now it's the Wii's turn to catch up.

While it will be 2 years ot doesnt mean it should be. Consoles are already VERY long in the tooth and the games developed for them prove it. Poor fps, textures look like ass, gameplay improvements being static, and originality lacking. What games are on the horizon for Kinect? Forza 3.5? More dance games? Weeeee? PSMove at least is being used as anoption for some big incoming games but still, no thanks.

This gen is already way too long. 3DS and the NGP prove that its time to move on. Im pissed that as good as Skyrim looks its still going to be held back by the PS3 and 360 and it will be another 3 or so years before a truly next gen ES arrives. Time for new gen is NOW.

 

[outunderthestars]

I am so ready for new portable hardware. The consoles still have another year to two of price drops and awesome games left in them

 

[Epic Tales of Penis]

After the PS2's impressive lifespan, it's really no surprise that Sony wants to try and recreate another 10-year success with the PS3.

How much of that was Sony dominating the market and afforded the luxury of going 10 years? At some point you'd think we see the PS4 trying to hit the market before the competition does first.

 

[blu]

When the PS3 was released in 2006 the OpenGL ES standard was not yet 1.0 with 2.0 having support for low level programmable and shader support. Sony wrote their own library of graphics calls for use with games because the rest of the industry was still catching up. As that library evolved with contribution from game developers and game engine developers the PS3 games became more impressive; now (opinion) slightly exceeding what's possible on the Xbox.

Erm, by the time PS3 got released ES1 had been around for some time (ES 1.1 was already the norm), and ES2 came out in the spring of 2007. I assume you're referring to PSGL, Sony's ad-hoc, proprietary ES 1.1 implementation. It had Cg shader support from the start, and that's what devs were provided with. For reference, Cg is nvidia's widely-adopted shader language which has been around for some time, in both native (for nv's GPUs) and cross-target forms (output to another shader 'dialect'). Hardly something Sony had/developed GPU-API-wise was 'ahead of the industry', outside of low-level SPU/buffer interactions (as the industry had no such goals at the time).

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

4. the N64 DD, Sega 32x and PSP Go are known for their huge success... usually companies learn from mistakes

While true, it's not like the history of the industry is littered with only failed add-ons and half cycle revisions. PC Engine CD-ROM2, GameBoy Color, Nintendo DSi and Xbox 360 Kinect were all comparably successful examples, and all arguably did much to competitively strengthen and even extend the lifecycle of their base platforms.

Wii probably represents the ultimate performance of a "1.5 gen" system, in that it was actually positioned as a full genertional shift, and to record breaking success in the process. There's really nothing stopping a hypothetical PS3.5 from doing the same, it'd just be called PlayStation 4.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

To all of you who believe that Sony/Microsoft will introduce a console for next generation that is simply a small update, what are you smoking? Sony is releasing the NGP this year and from what we have seen it's pretty close visually to the PS3 and obviously will even put out more impressive visuals as time goes on. Do you HONESTLY think that they'd put out a system that is just MARGINALLY more impressive than their handheld and ask people to pony up a MINIMUM of $300 for it? This is Sony we're talking about now. No way. Same with Microsoft and their successor to the 360. Do you honestly think they'd be content to just put out a system that is MARGINALLY better than the handhelds on the market? No.

Both of these companies realize that what sets them apart from Nintendo is the impressive visual games and the online capabilities. Nintendo will obviously close the cap for their next gen system when it comes to their online features but I don't see them trying to compete in the visual category. Sure, they'll put out a system that will be more impressive than the 360/PS3 (how could they not?) but they're not going to become the market leader graphically.

Microsoft and to a lesser degree Sony will for the next couple of years depend on Kinect/PSMove to sell software and consoles. Sony has whats looking like an AMAZING 2011 with first party support and 2012 for a few games as well. Microsoft will continue depending on their 3rd party exclusive support be it DLC, better version, and obviously Kinect. We know they're already in the development stage for next generation but no way do they wait until 2015 for release. I'd be surprised if they even wait until 2014, it just doesn't make sense. But one thing I'd bet the farm on is that their next generation systems will not be 360.5/ PS3.5.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Oh, I don't think we'll see a PS3.5 or Xbox 570 or whatever. In terms of Sony, I just don't think they're interested in a more iterative generational shift (as NGP proves) and I think if we'd have seen a half gen effort from Microsoft, it'd have been alongside Kinect launch.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Oh, I don't think we'll see a PS3.5 or Xbox 570 or whatever. In terms of Sony, I just don't think they're interested in a more iterative generational shift (as NGP proves) and I think if we'd have seen a half gen effort from Microsoft, it'd have been alongside Kinect launch.

I'm sure that Sony realizes that its important to offer hardware that is easy for developers to understand and use (as seen with the NGP) so on that issue I'd agree, they don't want a repeat of this generation. With that being said though, the PS3 is doing pretty good now. Its VERY likely that by the time everything is said and done, it will have sold more units than that of the 360; although the question is how much software its sold in comparison. Obviously the 360 has done better in that area.

My interest resides with Nintendo. I am SOOOOOOOOOO curious to see what they pull out of their hats for next generation. The 3DS has dragged me back on the Nintendo team which after the Wii I never thought would happen, at least so soon. I don't see Microsoft or Sony pulling anything too surprising out of their hats, although I'd love to be proven wrong.