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[chaosblade]

Isn't this part of the reason games like Deus Ex and (apparently?) Hitman bombed?

I guess if the AAA segment of the industry keeps going in that direction I will keep buying fewer and fewer of those games. Feels like I mostly play mid tier and indie stuff apart from Nintendo games these days anyway.

 

[CryptiK]

Yes. EA is also there.

However none of EA's current massive franchises use the model. Unless you count Titanfall 2 which isn't really massive at all.

 

[ByWatterson]

Will make exclusives, which can afford to derogate from raw profitability, all the more important.

 

[Mesoian]

Isn't this part of the reason games like Deus Ex and (apparently?) Hitman bombed?

I guess if the AAA segment of the industry keeps going in that direction I will keep buying fewer and fewer of those games. Feels like I mostly play mid tier and indie stuff apart from Nintendo games these days anyway.

No. If it was, they'd be walking away from it, as Hitman is basically the quintessential example of a games-as-service title that was universally liked (but bombed heavily, probably due to the negative outcry of it being a games-as-service title before it's release).

They're leaning into a more hitman-like experience, which makes their release of IO entertainment all the more baffling.

Will make exclusives, which can afford to derogate from raw profitability, all the more important.

Sony's certainly licking their chops.

Aren't they trying to sell the studio though? Doesn't seem congruent to give this quote while trying to sell off the one dev they had that did it right

You are 100% correct.

 

[dracula_x]

Aren't they trying to sell the studio though? Doesn't seem congruent to give this quote while trying to sell off the one dev they had that did it right

also Triad Wars cancellation (technically, also GaaS game) 😀

 

[PantsuJo]

If this is the future, these are my last years of gaming as hobby.

 

[inner-G]

If this is the future, these are my last years of gaming as hobby.

I'm really glad I snagged that NES Classic right about now.

 

[The Greek Freak]

Good thing they just canned the studio that made the literally only good consistent "episodic" content in the entire fucking industry.

 

[TheLegendOfCap]

Would anyone hate if 'KINGDOM HEARTS 3' became a service game?

Have the full game at launch, but instead of working on a 'KH4 for 2030' they could just add new worlds and story elements to KH3 as more Disney movies come out and such

Going from 'world to world' kind of lends itself to "oh there an unexplored area with more planets/worlds'

 

[Eusis]

If this is the future, these are my last years of gaming as hobby.

I'd been feeling/fearing that for awhile yet there's still stuff coming out that has my interest and I can really get into. Could be a slow melt down admittedly, but in some cases it's not so bad (constantly adding content) or they release stuff I want in spite of these declared. Or others just fill in the niche instead.

 

[charlequin]

However none of EA's current massive franchises use the model. Unless you count Titanfall 2 which isn't really massive at all.

What? The closest thing EA's published in a year to a non-service game is Mass Effect Andromeda, which a) did so badly that the series is dead and b) still had an entirely service-oriented MP side.

 

[Rncewind]

Would anyone hate if 'KINGDOM HEARTS 3' became a service game?

Have the full game at launch, but instead of working on a 'KH4 for 2030' they could just add new worlds and story elements to KH3 as more Disney movies come out and such

Going from 'world to world' kind of lends itself to "oh there an unexplored area with more planets/worlds'

yeah thats exactly how dlcs turned out am i right?

 

[BigEmil]

Just realized gotta wait like 2 years after FF7 Remake launch to play the full finished game version. Great...

 

[jholmes]

The thing I just do not get is where people come up with the time to play several of these games now -- to say nothing of how I don't understand how anyone will keep up with the glut of these games likely to come around in 2018-20.

I'm fine with rolling stuff out slow in multiplayer to keep you engaged a little longer as seen in Splatoon, but that doesn't mean every game needs to do that.

 

[Abilidebob]

If everyone starts doing everything as a game as service then yeah that will indeed be what most people will play.

I mean, it IS already what most people play, so it's already the truth.

 

[Munti]

I actually like games as a service.
It also gives singleplayer games a sense of community (people discuss about new content and so on) or competetiveness (tournaments, rankings).

But if the "service"-part consists only in grindy stuff or contains gatcha-elements, the game won't be for me

 

[thepenguin55]

Trying to sell off IO seems like one of the most tone deaf decisions Square could make right now considering they want to get into making games that are a service. With the momentum Hitman had coming off of season 1 the logical step would be to do what you could to make season 2 bigger and better and grab more attention. While I appreciate that they're trying to sell IO instead of closing them outright my hope is that Square will come to their senses and realize that the perfect games as a service franchise has been right under their nose the entire time. Related to the Hitman situation I found this article from November interesting:
https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/19/hitman-creative-director-looks-back-at-hitmans-first-season-and-games-as-a-service/

Isn't this part of the reason games like Deus Ex and (apparently?) Hitman bombed?

With Deus Ex I believe much of its problems was the result of publisher meddling. Also, part of Hitman's problem was it had a very bad launch. The game was announced to be episodic and then some time later they said it wasn't going to be episodic and made it available for preorder everywhere, then they later cancelled all preorders and even later still announced that it was going to be episodic again (which I'm sure that whole situation had at least something to do with publisher meddling). Then the game launched kind of messy-like (especially on PC). Having said that, it gained so much momentum towards the end of season 1 that it seems crazy that Square wouldn't want to try to grow that base with a season 2.

 

[Ray Down]

Being a service game doesn't necessarily mean the game is unfinished.

Like Grand Theft Auto V is a service game, and the campaign was definitely not unfinished at launch.

Exactly .

 

[sixteen-bit]

Dissidia Overwatch when?

 

[Ray Down]

Dissociate Overwatch when?

Wouldn't be surprised if Dissida isn't getting tooled for a service model right now.

 

[RedSwirl]

No. If it was, they'd be walking away from it, as Hitman is basically the quintessential example of a games-as-service title that was universally liked (but bombed heavily, probably due to the negative outcry of it being a games-as-service title before it's release).

They're leaning into a more hitman-like experience, which makes their release of IO entertainment all the more baffling.

In the case of Hitman it apparently didn't work out. Didn't sell that much, probably because people were unsure about how it would turn out until the season was done. Deus Ex was SE trying to figure out how to shove online features into a Deus Ex game.

Those two things are kinda just experiments to figure out how to get Games-as-a-Service to work with singleplayer. Right now nothing seems to have worked that well, but if you ask me I don't think anyone should try to mix it with the normal story campaign structure, and instead they should be rethinking singleplayer games entirely. Deus Ex in particular in my opinion isn't really fit for today's AAA budgets and scale, at least not from a publisher like Square Enix. For some reason only Arkane has been able to get that kind of game to work in today's market.

 

[Furyous]

*angst ridden old school gamer weighs in*

I respect the opinion of triple A devs to take the GAAS model but........


I cannot in good conscience support a game on day one with a well fleshed out DLC plan that extends two, three, and four years into the product's life cycle. I grew up with games a product, not a service. Take my $80 during the Nintendo reign, $40 through PS2 era, and $60 from PS3 era to present. This money enabled me to get a full experience with all the content playable to my hearts content. None of this buy $60 and then charge me $20 to $40 upwards of four times per year.

I can afford to drop $140 on one game over the course of this product's lifecycle but fuck all that. Don't even get me started on day one exclusive region and retailer specific DLC. It's best for me to wait one to years later when a game of the year edition is available with all the content for $60. Square Enix is well within their right do this but don't think for one second I am going to support you at full retail price knowing a season pass exists on top of the game's cost.

For fuck's sake this means FF7 remake could be subject to this. Gotdammit now I'm mad. Should we imagine the GAAS model for FF7 in this thread or could or someone else make a thread fantasizing about the implications on that game?

 

[Baleoce]

Agreed but I think for episodic content to succeed the first episode needs to be free to draw in as many people as possible. Get folks hooked on the game and let them decide if they want to pay for more.

Yeah or make it a significant discount for the first episode. I know a few telltale games generally have the first episode free after a certain period of time. Not sure if that's for mobile only or what. I don't mind seeing more fleshed out episodic content though, as it encourages multiple playthroughs and when you put the game together after the season is done, especially in Hitmans case, there's a ton of content to be played there.

 

[wildfire]

Games as a service means that once they create or repurpose an IP they will be even les likely to branch out with new IPs and new gameplay ideas won't be as fully explored compared to a more focused game.

 

[RPGamer92]

I'm glad that Sony still believes in single-player only games.

 

[UberTag]

For fuck's sake this means FF7 remake could be subject to this. Gotdammit now I'm mad. Should we imagine the GAAS model for FF7 in this thread or could or someone else make a thread fantasizing about the implications on that game?

Don't be mad. Vote with your wallet. The reason big publishers like Square Enix are flocking to this model is because they're chasing dollars from the likes of Activision Blizzard and Vivendi Ubisoft (yeah, we might as well start calling them that now... it's inevitable).

Don't subsidize GAAS titles that allocate content out piecemeal and reward the publishers that deliver the kinds of games you like. There are PLENTY of first-rate developers out there that deliver robust JRPG experiences with a focus on strong narratives, character development and world building like Square Enix did in the old days. Give THEM your money. The Final Fantasy VII title you remember from 1997 isn't going anywhere. You can still play it. Don't be upset that Square Enix is chasing a different demographic now.

 

[Kuranghi]

"Games as a service is the future!"

We tested it on Hitman and the game was a return to form for the series so we... sold the developer... wtf?

 

[Kuranghi]

Concerning Hitman - I was skeptical of the model at first, so I didn't buy Episode 1 [Prologue + Paris] straight away, then Sapienza came out and people were praising it so much that I had to try it.

10 Hours later I'm still replaying the tutorial mission because the replayability is soooo good. Its pure gameplay excellence.

So if they release another game with that kind of depth I'm excited, but I think Hitman was just the perfect game for that model.

 

[afternoon delight]

I didn't really understand how waiting until the GOTY edition would morph in the future, but here we are. Waiting even longer for the actual game. Oh well. Steam sales will be Steam sales.

The AAA overspend train just keeps on a-rollin'

Thankfully the AA market has in turn given every niche genre under the sun several years of great games to play, and shows no signs of slowing.

 

[Ray Down]

"Games as a service is the future!"

We tested it on Hitman and the game was a return to form for the series so we... sold the developer... wtf?

It wasn't a success, it's REALLY not that hard to see.

 

[blakep267]

"Games as a service is the future!"

We tested it on Hitman and the game was a return to form for the series so we... sold the developer... wtf?

THE game also has to sell well for a viable service I mean of course that's the case

 

[witchedwiz]

They're not wrong, but I on a personal level will likely move away from their games if they adopt too many of the bad aspects of games as a service. They're already delving unfortunately far into the AAA model of finishing a game after release, so I don't have a lot of faith they'll make the right moves with this new direction.

This over and over...
I'd rather quit gaming than having every damn game filled with micro transactions and paywalled core mechanics....
Not going to lie, this isn't the game future i envisioned... Luckily as a collector i have an insane amount of "still to open" games that i can play at my own convenience, should te gaming landscape migrate completely in the -"as service" paradigm...
Still, salty...
And i'm already voting with my wallet...
I play gacha as a f2p, i buy games once nowdays and i don't double dip..
If there's dlc
I usually get it at a discount down along the way.. I don't buy season pass either, apartment from a few exceptions..
I think that my 60 eur at launch should give me the full game experience already

 

[MoonFrog]

Well, I'll just get pushed further out of the mainstream as time goes on then I guess.

Hopefully there will always be a place for me.

 

[Ritzboof]

not surprised. its a fad, and you cant make all of the money in the world unless you copy the shit out of the other big cats

what a time to be an indie dev

 

[snitsky]

Welp, I'm out I guess.

 

[13ruce]

If it means a netflix gaming like platform for 10 bucks a months to play 100s of games yes otherwise nah.

Will just replay older games then and buy the service games when they have all content are are on a sub 20 sale.

 

[Dangansona]

It'll mean a relaxed approach toward shipping unfinished titles as long as consumers are forgiving enough to allow them to patch it over the next year and a half or so.

We tacitly approved of this race to the bottom.

Yup. There have been a few games I liked that fit this mold but overall my sentiment is:

And it fucking sucks.

*angst ridden old school gamer weighs in*

I respect the opinion of triple A devs to take the GAAS model but........


I cannot in good conscience support a game on day one with a well fleshed out DLC plan that extends two, three, and four years into the product's life cycle. I grew up with games a product, not a service. Take my $80 during the Nintendo reign, $40 through PS2 era, and $60 from PS3 era to present. This money enabled me to get a full experience with all the content playable to my hearts content. None of this buy $60 and then charge me $20 to $40 upwards of four times per year.

Not just a product, but a product of art, which we are quickly losing if games continue to be unfinished constantly changing money-grabs that are only available to download over a service where you don't actually own the product.

It bums me out sometimes I'm not gonna lie.

Edit: I like Overwatch, and in general give more of a pass to these games that are MP experiences from the outset, but I don't want all games to head that direction.

 

[Falchion]

Games as service will be the new AAA fad just like season passes were a few years ago and then it'll swing back the other way and they'll fixate on something else.

 

[i-Jest]

Games as a service means that once they create or repurpose an IP they will be even les likely to branch out with new IPs and new gameplay ideas won't be as fully explored compared to a more focused game.

I'm sorta here right now, but we'll see how this all works itself out.

 

[thepenguin55]

It wasn't a success, it's REALLY not that hard to see.

THE game also has to sell well for a viable service I mean of course that's the case

Square would rather start from scratch rather than grow something that's already successful. Hitman did well but didn't meet Square's absurd expectations much like the Tomb Raider reboot (see my above comments). They've had insane expectations for all of Eidos's properties ever since they acquired them.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

It's a fad. Outside of a few games it really hasn't translated that much if at all into higher sales or more critical acclaim. Meanwhile some of the best selling and most critically acclaimed games this gen are still single-player experiences that outside one or two DLC packs, are still self-contained.

 

[Kthulhu]

They went great for you with Deus Ex and Hitman, why stop there?

 

[Abilidebob]

It's a fad. Outside of a few games it really hasn't translated that much if at all into higher sales or more critical acclaim. Meanwhile some of the best selling and most critically acclaimed games this gen are still single-player experiences that outside one or two DLC packs, are still self-contained.

The biggest games in the world are games as a service, and most have been for quite some time. How is it a fad?

 

[patapuf]

It's a fad. Outside of a few games it really hasn't translated that much if at all into higher sales or more critical acclaim. Meanwhile some of the best selling and most critically acclaimed games this gen are still single-player experiences that outside one or two DLC packs, are still self-contained.

If i think of the big sellers this gen they are almost universally service titles. There's a handful of exceptions at most.

Games as service will be the new AAA fad just like season passes were a few years ago and then it'll swing back the other way and they'll fixate on something else.

Thing have been moving into that direction for a while. At least for everything MP related GaaS is here to stay.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

The future sees me probably buying fewer and fewer Square Enix games.

 

[RandomHopeInc]

Its either that or charging more than 60 dollars for a game, so to those salty at this, consider that. The price of making a game only rises.

 

[HeeHo]

Doesn't "Games as a service" equate to "online-only DRM"?

Not a fan of that at all.

If it means getting continuous updates without DRM, I am less concerned.

 

[Ray Down]

Doesn't "Games as a service" equate to "online-only DRM"?

Not a fan of that at all.

If it means getting continuous updates without DRM, I am less concerned.

No, it means continue support of various forms of DLC and content.

 

[Foffy]

Is Square-Enix really thinks their games can actually accomplish this, they're done.

These guys can't even get games out in a reasonable timeframe. And they think they can make them a service? What fools.

 

[LordKasual]

Dissidia Overwatch when?

Unlocking costumes / emotes / weapons / voice taunts for your favorite FF characters? I see no reason why that wouldn't work.

The problem is that Dissidia Arcade doesn't even look as competitively deep as the first one

Doesn't "Games as a service" equate to "online-only DRM"?

Not a fan of that at all.

If it means getting continuous updates without DRM, I am less concerned.

No. FFXV is already using this model. The game released, and is just getting constantly updated with little things to do. Techncially games like Bloodborne are like this as well, with tiny balance tweaks and big expansions to expand the content.


I think the only REAL example of what happens when this goes wrong is Metal Gear Solid V, where mechanics in the single player game are nerfed to make space for silly online pay-to-win features. But FFXV has nothing remotely close to that.