Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Sorry but I no longer have any empathy for rural america fucking me over.You've missed the entire point of your own goddamn thread.
Sorry but I no longer have any empathy for rural america fucking me over.You've missed the entire point of your own goddamn thread.
The only way to fight violence is violence.
The only way to fight violence is violence.
And meanwhile they won't give a shit as they continue to vote against the left because of people like you and their my way or the highway attitude.Sorry but I no longer have any empathy for rural america fucking me over.
The only way to fight violence is violence.
Trump voters don't need to understand because theyve gotten what they wanted. It's the left that needs to understand why they lost at this time. And large part of it is the all or nothing camp that wants you to fall in line or get the hell out of the way.I hope all of you telling minorities to not freak out and try to understand Trump voters are doing the same and telling Trump voters to understand where Clinton supporters are coming from.
You're assuming they CAN change.Theres only so many fucks any one can give. I stand by what I said, and 4 years from now, when they are worse off than right now, I'll say the same thing. To believe the blatant lies from a demagogue simply because your way of life is dying and you chose to not change but want to stick it out and hope he can bring back your old way of life because you can't adapt or chose not to, and in turn end up hurting other people because of the shit your vote is going to bring about, that's all kinds of stupid.
Continue the tantrum then, my friend. I'm sure it'll work out by 2020.Sorry but I no longer have any empathy for rural america fucking me over.
Not according to Ghandi or Jesus. Both were reasonably successful revolutionary figures
We need to come together as people. We need to show them that we won't elect on this divisiveness that has taken off since the early 90s. I have a LOT of GOP friends. I don't know how..... kind of annoying... but talk to them and guess what? They don't want me screwed. They don't want minorities screwed. We need more of these conversations and NOT at general elections. GEs are too late. How many honest conversations did we have with republicans during the primaries about the republican ticket? Or the same for our ticket? I'll admit it. I sat back and laughed at Trump. I never sat down and said "ok all joking aside this guy is going to be disaster if he wins. What other candidates do you have?"Our morals and values are a weakness to them. We will never change this fact. This is what the narrative is. The left is the ideology of the many, the right is the ideology of might. How do you think we should reconcile the inbetween?
8 million people didn't vote, we don't exactly need people clinging to an impossible premise while passively supporting bigotry to win every election from now onContinue the tantrum then, my friend. I'm sure it'll work out by 2020.
I hope all of you telling minorities to not freak out and try to understand Trump voters are doing the same and telling Trump voters to understand where Clinton supporters are coming from.
They refuse to accept that THEY need to change, not everything else needs to regress and stagnate so they don't have too.
They're not specifically voting against minorities. Some are, yes, but there are many others that are just voting for their interests. We could have gotten some of those voters, but we yelled at them and told them they were racists because they were undecided or they saw value in parts of Trump's platform.I mean, I think Trump supporters understand pretty well that people of color just want to be left in peace to live safely in America.
That is specifically what they voted against!
Even if you plan on winning every branch of government (and SCOTUS is basically lost to us anyway), you're not getting rid of bigotry by shouting it down and letting it fester in the dark. That's how we got here in the first place.8 million people didn't vote, we don't exactly need people clinging to an impossible premise while passively supporting bigotry to win every election from now on
This is the big concern with this thread. "If they aren't racist they are still condoning it"They're not specifically voting against minorities. Some are, yes, but there are many others that are just voting for their interests. We could have gotten some of those voters, but we yelled at them and told them they were racists because they were undecided or they saw value in parts of Trump's platform.
why would they need/want to change when they fuckin won? lol
We need to come together as people. We need to show them that we won't elect on this divisiveness that has taken off since the early 90s. I have a LOT of GOP friends. I don't know how..... kind of annoying... but talk to them and guess what? They don't want me screwed. They don't want minorities screwed. We need more of these conversations and NOT at general elections. GEs are too late. How many honest conversations did we have with republicans during the primaries about the republican ticket? Or the same for our ticket? I'll admit it. I sat back and laughed at Trump. I never sat down and said "ok all joking aside this guy is going to be disaster if he wins. What other candidates do you have?"
I used to think we'd follow the politicians. But clearly the politicians will keep rising to the ballots based on what works. So we need to change what works.
Sorry but I no longer have any empathy for rural america fucking me over.
This is exactly what I've been trying to say. Dems didn't reach out to these people. Or if they did it obviously wasn't a valiant enough effort.This is the big concern with this thread. "If they aren't racist they are still condoning it"
Ok, fine. That may be. But.... if they aren't racist, and are given a better platform without the racism.. isn't that a better option for everyone? It would stand then that that would be a damn good reason for dems to reach out to them.
They're not specifically voting against minorities. Some are, yes, but there are many others that are just voting for their interests. We could have gotten some of those voters, but we yelled at them and told them they were racists because they were undecided or they saw value in parts of Trump's platform.
I just said something similar in another thread but it's more relevant here.
I'm from Turkey. Enter Turkey 14 years ago. The rural people are uneducated, religious, and they are lacking in jobs. The liberals live in cities, and are considered an elite. They've been winning elections handily, coasting on being the establishment and not really having strong opposition. Then, Erdogan happens. A demagogue liar who appeals to people's religious sensibilities and promises jobs. Liberals don't take him seriously, and he wins the election. Liberals double down on calling the rural people stupid uneducated idiots who vote against their own interest (which they do). Bu Erdogan is popular, he controls the rhetoric and he makes some short term changes that improve the life of the rural people. The liberals keep bringing out more and more establishment candidates that don't do anything to tap into the rural people, instead even further alienating them.
As a result, we've had 14 years of Erdogan with no end in sight. He's crushed civil liberties, hate crimes against religious minorities and women are the norm because he empowers the people to do so. He controls all branches of government, and elections are rigged. The liberals had two legitimate shots at beating him, but each time they entrenched themselves further into their ivory tower and called his base names. I see a very similar trend here in America now, and I'm very concerned. The right will not play nice, and they are morally wrong. Being morally right doesn't win elections though. No matter how much those people hate you for who you are, you can't win elections without them, so you need to make compromises. Yes, they're racist, but you have to sit at the table with them, because they're half of the electorate. I really don't know what's the best way to get them to play along, because Turkey clearly failed. But I know that it's going to get harder and harder to educate people and reconcile, because the politicians in power are going to do everything to keep it. They will gerrymander, cut education, polarize people with hateful rhetoric.
In this case, the burden is on the left to rise above this, take a hit to our ego, and find a way to come together despite ourselves. Going further left and pushing those people further away can't work. But as I said, I really don't know what can. I really fear the exact same situation repeating itself though. The rhetoric from Trump and his more vocal followers is scary though.
Also, I don't think every person who voted for Trump is a racist. Yes, they're enabling a blatant racist, and they're being racist by proxy, but some people just don't care about social issues and are only concerned with their immediate economic situation. We need to distinguish between these people and flat out actual racists with our approach, because we don't want to label them racists and push them to band with the full on nazis. We need to bring them to our side and educate them. It sucks that the burden is on us, but it has to be.
The bottom line is that we still lost to the racist. Say what you will, point all the fingers you want, but Donald Trump is the 45th President of the United States. And the Dems had all the cards in their hands and still couldn't pull off the win. So what does that say about our party?The enabled a racist , just as bad,
Trump voters don't need to understand because theyve gotten what they wanted. It's the left that needs to understand why they lost at this time. And large part of it is the all or nothing camp that wants you to fall in line or get the hell out of the way.
For a little while now I've thought an answer might just be finding a way to bring different people closer together geographically, because when people see and converse with those who are different every day, there's a higher chance they begin to see them more as people and not "others." That's where empathy might come from. I could be totally wrong though.
They were both martyrs. The name Jesus barely evokes the imagery of his original message anymore, and the Brits only left India when it was no longer economically feasible to hold anymore.
That conversation has been going on for centuries, and they're still not listening. We took a step forward in recent years, and last night took a giant leap back.
You're really going to put this on minorities not being patient enough? Not trying hard enough? Not finding ways to break down the barrier without bothering the poor white people they might put on edge by simply existing?
Fuck that, man. Fuck that.
Sure but both were successful and a 2000+ year legacy is nothing to ignore. Despite their being a good deal of truth that modern Cristians dont reitterate many of the same values
And isn't it true that the fact that everybody--Democrats--seem to be ignoring them is the cause that now bites everyone in their arse right now? Maybe I'm wrong.
Lol it's ridiculous that i say we need to speak to these people instead of yell at them and Everytime the response is like "OH SO WE NEED TO CATER AND CODDLE THE RACISTS THEN HUH". Obviously fucking not. Racists can die and burn. Its not the racists that need to be convinced, it's the blue collar worker in middle America that maybe doesn't have as much exposure to "Progressive America" to understand why we're fighting the fight that we are.So basically fuck us, we have to bend over backwards for them? We understand why we lost, we're angry because it's extremely unfair that someone campaigns using hateful rhetoric and still wins the election, we would not get away with such tactics, we know it can be unhelpful but the disappointment runs deep.
Also, I don't think every person who voted for Trump is a racist. Yes, they're enabling a blatant racist, and they're being racist by proxy, but some people just don't care about social issues and are only concerned with their immediate economic situation.
Lol it's ridiculous that i say we need to speak to these people instead of yell at them and Everytime the response is like "OH SO WE NEED TO CATER AND CODDLE THE RACISTS THEN HUH". Obviously fucking not. Racists can die and burn. Its not the racists that need to be convinced, it's the blue collar worker in middle America that maybe doesn't have as much exposure to "Progressive America" to understand why we're fighting the fight that we are.
No one said anything about poor people.I'm sorry, but did you see the voter record based on income. The poor did come out for Hillary, it's the middle and up that went pear shaped.
No one said anything about poor people.
You know what you call people who care more about their wallets than they care about how minorities are treated?
RACISTS.
Why do you think we had fucking slavery for so long? It's because the southern states wanted to preserve their slave-based economic power. Do we then go back and say those assholes weren't really racist because really they just wanted to keep making money?
Of course not.
These assholes have literally just told us that the picture of the dead white man in their pocket is worth more than the living brown people in this country.
And I'm far beyond the point where I give a damn if their feelings are hurt.
Forgive my choice of words then. I feel you understand my overall point though.You said blue collar. The column continues up to the extremes/highest brackets.
Sorry but I no longer have any empathy for rural america fucking me over.
8 million people didn't vote, we don't exactly need people clinging to an impossible premise while passively supporting bigotry to win every election from now on
Lol it's ridiculous that i say we need to speak to these people instead of yell at them and Everytime the response is like "OH SO WE NEED TO CATER AND CODDLE THE RACISTS THEN HUH". Obviously fucking not. Racists can die and burn. Its not the racists that need to be convinced, it's the blue collar worker in middle America that maybe doesn't have as much exposure to "Progressive America" to understand why we're fighting the fight that we are.
Not according to Ghandi or Jesus. Both were reasonably successful revolutionary figures
You are.
White rural Americans have been advocating for white nationalism literally since America was founded.
The electoral college that just prevented Hillary from winning the election was created by Thomas Jefferson partially to protect white Southerners who were afraid that Northerners would try to eliminate slavery.
When the time came for us to actually eliminate slavery they forced a civil war and spent the lives of millions of Americans rather than allow black people to own their own bodies.
Then they murdered Abraham Lincoln so that a white rural American could become president and allow them to institute extralegal violence and limitations to ensure that black people would effectively remain enslaved.
When the Civil Rights Act was passed, guaranteeing people of color the right to be part of America equally, they literally went so berserk that they took over one of the two political parties and claimed that the other party was governing illegitimately every time it won an election.
Fifty years later they've finally hit their breaking point and they're ready to seize their country back and drive out, by force if necessary, as many people of color as necessary to ensure that America always remains a majority white country.
People imagining that white rural Americans are suddenly acting racist today, just this year, just because of economic issues that just sprang up, are living in a fantasy world that ignores literally the entirety of American history, which revolves in its fullness around America's original sin, white supremacy.
But then, they're probably white.