• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Time: The Las Vegas Shooter Modified His Guns. Here's Why That's Important

T

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
I wonder how many criminals have been neutralized by gun toting Samaritans due specifically to a bump stock? How many innocent civilians killed.
 
L

Lonewolf_92

Member
studyguy said:
Mentioned it in the other thread, Bump Stocks and Gat Cranks have always existed in that weird gray zone that felt like they could be dealt a legal blow with enough criticism. The real question is enforcement, because obtaining a homemade solution is so easy. Again as mentioned in the other thread, at least with the bump stock you can 3D print one out quick enough, but at that point the question is probably more limiting the ease of obtaining one on the legal market vs whatever black market crops up.
Click to expand...

3D printing one would require at minimum access to a 3D printer, the plan, and material of high enough quality to survive use, and if it was illegal, would have to keep it hidden or risk fines/jail time. Attempting purchase on the black market has it's own associated risks and would likely cost more than $100 with the quality being an unknown quantity until you tested it.

Compared to you can currently, where you can buy one legally of known quality for $50-$100 and keep it on the gun displayed in your living room if you were so inclined.
 
D

DrROBschiz

Member
Bruce Springsteen said:
Pigs-fly-courtesy-thehill.com_.png


gun laws won't be changing anytime soon
Click to expand...

We dont need to make sporting shotguns illegal to make progress on gun laws man
 
U

Ultryx

Member
Jesus Christ. I had no idea that bump stocks were even a thing. It's obvious to me that people should not be allowed to fit these on a semiautomatic firearm. I watched a couple of those YouTube videos and those effectively make them automatic weapons.

Edit: How would you prevent people from 3D printing something like this though?
 
L

linkboy

Member
Ultryx said:
Jesus Christ. I had no idea that bump stocks were even a thing. It's obvious to me that people should not be allowed to fit these on a semiautomatic firearm. I watched a couple of those YouTube videos and those effectively make them automatic weapons.

Edit: How would you prevent people from 3D printing something like this though?
Click to expand...

You can't, but it would make it a lot hard to get.
 
S

shungokusatsu

Member
Been awhile since I checked, but I believe the ATF has commented and approved bumpfire mods previously. In fact, when you purchase the most popular one, they include a letter with the direct quote from the ATF stating it’s legal.

I’m sure that will change though, in light of the Vegas tragedy. Personally, I don’t have a problem with firearms or people owning many of them, but no one needs one of these crazy mods, IMO.

Edit: Found the ATF quote:

We find that the 'bump-stock' is a firearm part and is not regulated as firearm under the Gun Control Act or the National Firearms act.
Click to expand...

http://money.cnn.com/2013/09/12/news/companies/slide-fire-gun/index.html
 
S

Saganator

Member
Sethista said:
I wonder how big of a tragedy would it take for the public sentiment to overcome nra money.
Click to expand...

Probably something insane like a whole classroom of kids getting murdered... oh wait.

Honestly, I don't think any tragedy will do the trick. Maybe if Black Lives Matters started arming themselves then you might see some gun control.
 
T

Temeculan3000

Member
Saganator said:
Honestly, I don't think any tragedy will do the trick. Maybe if Black Lives Matters started arming themselves then you might see some gun control.
Click to expand...

That might work. Gun control laws were passed when the Black Panthers started carrying loaded weapons, and the NRA supported the laws..
 
C

ChainedMaster

Banned
Also interesting to note bump fire stocks are notoriously inaccurate. That's why they're virtually useless in a gunfight. When your target is a massive crowd though, that doesn't matter.

I suspected a bump stock being used. Because from the video, it sounded far too slow to be fully auto but but faster than what the vast majority of people could shoot in semi auto
 
V

Various Artists

Banned
CyclopsRock said:
If he has 11 guns and two bump-stocks that seem not to have been installed, it seems that possibly the fact he has eleven guns is the bigger issue. In many ways I'm tempted to think that have a high velocity, semi-automatic rifle would be more deadly than a full automatic (or effectively fully auto). It doesn't take too longer to empty a magazine in semi auto and the relatively lack of kick might mean those bullets that do leave are more likely to hit their target (which in this case was a huge area).
Click to expand...

Your “tempted to think” would be wrong. Mechanical full auto is exponanentially faster than 30 single trigger pulls.
 
B

blackflag

Member
CyclopsRock said:
If he has 11 guns and two bump-stocks that seem not to have been installed, it seems that possibly the fact he has eleven guns is the bigger issue. In many ways I'm tempted to think that have a high velocity, semi-automatic rifle would be more deadly than a full automatic (or effectively fully auto). It doesn't take too longer to empty a magazine in semi auto and the relatively lack of kick might mean those bullets that do leave are more likely to hit their target (which in this case was a huge area).
Click to expand...

When engaging 1 or 2 targets yes, when shooting blindly into a crowd of 22,000 the fully automatic would be more deadly of course.
 
One Eyed Willy

One Eyed Willy

Member
Bump stocks are the issue here. The vast majority of firearms are semi-automatic and it should be a federal crime to convert them otherwise. Additionally, accessories like a bump stock shouldn't be grey are legal. but keep in mind this is a state by state law. Interestingly, almost nobody relies on a bump stock for anything since it makes your accuracy completely vanish totally. However, I guess if you're 32 stories up and firing into a sea of humans thats different.

Bump stocks should be outlawed.
 
O

Ominym

Banned
DrROBschiz said:
It is irritating that gun enthusiasts dont acknowledge or accept fetishism as an issue

It causes them to lose respect for the killing power of the weapons they own while they chase this power fantasy of being a one man army

Im not trying to blanket accuse all gun owners here but the way gun owners are marketed to is abundantly clear and no one bats an eye
Click to expand...
We just recently had a thread on fandoms about Rick and Morty where people openly recognized that people getting too invested in a hobby results in it becoming a key (even obsessive) part of their personality.

The major difference here is that TV shows, video games, sports, etc. don’t revolve around a tool that was designed for killing.

Gun culture enthusiasts, gun hobbiests, whatever you would like to call the people who get too deep in this hobby are not immune to these negative levels of attachment and as such, we need to address gun culture even if there are responsible owners.
 
C

ChainedMaster

Banned
Bump fire stocks serve no purpose, at all. Even gun owners know this and the only people who have one use it as a "range toy". They are useless for defense, hunting, sport shooting, everything. They should to be outlawed. Same for binary triggers which also fire faster than semiautomatic. That and background checks would be a good step in the right direction. At the very least, if bump stocks we're illegal he wouldn't have killed and injured far less.

But the NRA will argue that bump stocks are protected by the second amendment. Even though they aren't fucking firearms but an accessory.
 
Hari Seldon

Hari Seldon

Member
Yeah bump stocks are pretty much only for fun at a range. I never use one because when I shoot I'm trying to improve accuracy not fuck around wasting ammo. And if you have ever shot a real machine gun it is no comparison lol. I think that some guns can be shot in bump mode without modifying anything simply by depressing your finger a bit, but I have never tried. This is likely the first time a bump stock has been used in any shooting before that I am aware of.
 
D

DrROBschiz

Member
ChainedMaster said:
Bump fire stocks serve no purpose, at all. Even gun owners know this and the only people who have one use it as a "range toy". They are useless for defense, hunting, sport shooting, everything. They should to be outlawed. Same for binary triggers which also fire faster than semiautomatic. That and background checks would be a good step in the right direction. At the very least, if bump stocks we're illegal he wouldn't have killed and injured far less.

But the NRA will argue that bump stocks are protected by the second amendment. Even though they aren't fucking firearms but an accessory.
Click to expand...

Clearly the intent of the accessory was to circumvent the ban on automatic weapons and allow gun enthusiasts to make their hobby about improving the killing power of their weapons...

Id hate to think how this even became a thing and how it was marketed
 
Croatoan

Croatoan

They/Them A-10 Warthog
As what many people here would call a "Gun Nut", I am all for getting rid of bump stocks, gatlin cracks or any aftermarket part that increases the fire rate of a gun that isn't the actual trigger.
 
Croatoan

Croatoan

They/Them A-10 Warthog
edit: double post.

Ominym said:
We just recently had a thread on fandoms about Rick and Morty where people openly recognized that people getting too invested in a hobby results in it becoming a key (even obsessive) part of their personality.

The major difference here is that TV shows, video games, sports, etc. don't revolve around a tool that was designed for killing.

Gun culture enthusiasts, gun hobbiests, whatever you would like to call the people who get too deep in this hobby are not immune to these negative levels of attachment and as such, we need to address gun culture even if there are responsible owners.
Click to expand...

I can see this but it doesn't mean they are going to start killing people. Ask any soldier, taking a life is not something easy for a sane person, no matter how much they like their guns. Hell I own a lot of guns and I can't stomach killing a fly. No really, I don't like killing bugs.
 
I

I H8 Memes

Member
Thing is I'm sure every other evil motherfucker who is thinking of going on a shooting spree is taking notes. It's only a matter of time before a shooter live streams one as well. We already had 1 guy livestream a shooting, I'm sure one of the big ones will be live streamed eventually.
 
A

Akronis

Member
Bruce Springsteen said:
Democrats are scared to death of the NRA and gun lobby and bend over backwards not to step on the toes of gun owners, including this PR stunt by Obama. So you expect something to change by law? Not happening anytime soon
Click to expand...

There is a huge difference between an O/U and an AR-15. If Obama was shooting an AR, you might have a point.
 
Woo-Fu

Woo-Fu

Banned
DrROBschiz said:
How easy is it really though?

Cuz even the smallest hurdles and laws can act as a reasonable deterrent for opportunistic criminals
Click to expand...

I could make a functional bump stock in a few hours with basic shop tools and I'm no skilled machinist. They're really simple. That said they're not effective at anything other than loosely replicating the feeling of firing on full auto. Accuracy and control are practically non-existent due to how you have to hold the rifle for the bump stock to function.

If I wanted a higher RoF out of an AR I'd put in a fosstech echo trigger. Higher RoF and a great 2-round burst while not sacrificing stability and accuracy, and also a system you can leave installed on the gun full time with no downsides.

I don't think legislation specifically targeting these sorts of devices would be effective. They'll just get replaced with other options. There is plenty of overlap between the engineering profession and the gun enthusiast(guns are machines, after all) community that somebody will come up with a new device practically overnight. I think a much better approach would be significantly stricter control/licensing on all semi-auto rifles. Bolt action is perfectly fine for hunting and is the best(IMHO) for target shooting anyhow. Limit the semi-autos and you automatically reduce the market for these sorts of addons which means fewer of them will be designed, much less mass-produced.

Of course all of this ignores the fact that pistols are used in more homicides than every other type of gun combined.

Stoop Man said:
I thought all conversion mods were illegal! How is this a thing?
Click to expand...

It isn't a conversion mod. The reason it is a thing is due to the wording of the legislation. You're still pulling the trigger for each round fired which satisfies the letter of the law. Furthermore you can bump-fire semi-auto weapons without a bump stock. The stocks just make it easier.
 
L

Lonewolf_92

Member
Sevenfold said:
Faster than a lot of autos. Crikey. I can't imagine being able to hit anything with anything resembling accuracy but that rof is insane.
Click to expand...

Accuracy doesn't matter much when you're firing into a crowd of 22,000 potential targets from a vantage point 34 floors up trying to inflict as many deaths as possible (although, depending on other accessories, you might have even better control than you think).
 
H

Hickbilly Deluxe

Banned
Stoop Man said:
Wait, Ive heard gun owners joke about the ATF enforcing shoestrings. I thought all conversion mods were illegal! How is this a thing?
Click to expand...

Its a joke, someone sent in a picture of an old rifle with a shoestring being used so that every time the hammer went forward it would pull the trigger amd they actually got a response back saying it was an illegal modification.

On topic: I actually own a bump stock fpr my AR. Bought it as a nevelty to try it out, been collecting dust ever since. Kinda fun firing off that many rounds that fast, but the loss of accuracy plus the cost made it not wpeth keeping on there.
 
M

mlclmtckr

Banned
Akronis said:
There is a huge difference between an O/U and an AR-15. If Obama was shooting an AR, you might have a point.
Click to expand...

there are plenty of veteran Democrat office holders tweeting garbage about "i didn't carry an assault rifle in Iraq just to see them used here at home" or whatever
 
M

Mammoth Jones

Member
ChainedMaster said:
Bump fire stocks serve no purpose, at all. Even gun owners know this and the only people who have one use it as a "range toy". They are useless for defense, hunting, sport shooting, everything. They should to be outlawed. Same for binary triggers which also fire faster than semiautomatic. That and background checks would be a good step in the right direction. At the very least, if bump stocks we're illegal he wouldn't have killed and injured far less.

But the NRA will argue that bump stocks are protected by the second amendment. Even though they aren't fucking firearms but an accessory.
Click to expand...

No lies detected.
 
P

PIMPBYBLUD

Member
LordKasual said:
the moment 20 children got blown away in an elementary school and nothing changed, i think it became obvious that no tragedy would be big enough.
Click to expand...

This. Nothing is going to change. America is enraptured in one thing and one thing only greed, money and power. Having a four year old son this troubles me on so many levels. They got these muthafuckas in their pockets. Nothing will change until someone’s relative in Congress is effected by this. But even then you would think the baseball shooting would have changed somwthing. Negative
 
D

Dr.Phibes

Member
Stinkles said:
As a sportsman and a hunter I would just like to point out that bump stocks massively increase the accuracy and safety of my weapon and also 50 cal rounds make neat painless holes in ethically raised venison.
Click to expand...
I used to hunt the old fashioned way too. Now I only use my Unimog-mounted fully automatic grenade launcher fed with 40mm HEs. This way I don't even have to skin my kills anymore. Keeps the forest nice and tidy too.
 
U

UnemployedVillain

Member
An elementary school was shot up and the only change that occurred was a new group of conspiracy theorists coming out of the woodwork. The optimist in me hopes this is the straw that break the camel's back, but the cynist/realist in me knows it won't be
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Cyberpunk Edgerunner Patch Now Live
2 3 4 5
241
24K
-Zelda- replied
NRA, Democrats and White House for regulation on bump stocks, GOP on the fence
2 3
147
18K
Vilix replied
Traffic stop turns up cache of full auto assault rifles, 900 rounds, survival gear
2 3 4
161
23K
WaterAstro replied
AP-NORC poll: Vegas shooting doesn’t change opinions on guns
29
3K
Aurongel replied
The speech that sparked a revolution.
4 5 6 7 8
362
34K
rokkerkory replied
Top Bottom