Support NeoGAF

[Aureon]

We can debate the validity of this excuse, but to small coal towns, they have been told time and time again that Obama was putting them out of business in order to spite them and give his green energy buddies a big handout.

Insulated right wing news continued to push that narrative. Say anything enough and people begin to believe it.

While they should know better, it's not surprising that an ailing community is willing to believe those sorts of lies as a rationalization.

We have seen time and time again that they come from a culture of believing their work is valuable. Those sorts of jobs have been valuable in the past. To even cite the article, they try to take credit for being the energy source that powers the tech booms of the pacific northwest.
To see their work going to the wayside is an attack of their self worth.

Of course I agree that these people are no more special than those else on long term unemployment. However, they do make for a fantastic example of a changing economy and those being left behind.

As it has been said over and over again: I can understand why they did what they did, but that doesn't mean i forgive them without repentance.

They were, yes, deceived, but everyone has suffered the same demagoguery.
The reality is that they want to preserve their way of life - and to that, i answer fuck that.
Their way of life is ignorance, damaging the planet, polluting, riding the wave when it's their turn and asking for handouts they didn't want to give when they were in the position to.

I emphatize with their plague, but putting resources in to save their way of life? fuck, no.
Gladly put resources up to transition them out of it, though.

 

[hawkshockey11]

they should open a bootstrap pulling farm

 

[NastyBook]

let them eat coal

pfffthahahahaha

But yeah, fuck em.

 

[azyless]

Oh no, poor them.

 

[Maoyama]

Why not turn that coal town into a wind and solar town?

What does this even mean?

Are you saying the town should be a manufacturer of power electronics devices and silicon panels? Or manufacture the blades and structure of the turbines? Because if thats the case I don't see how making a new factory in the middle of the northwest would make any sense, specially when some of these job are highly specialized.

Are saying the town should start installing solar panels and wind turbines? Where should they be installed? The electric grid is probably not robust enough to support it and who is going to pay for the increase transmission infrastructure?

The thing about moving from coal -> renewables is that it will move the jobs to a different kind of worker and in a different place. Coal plants need the coal miners, need mechanics, operators, drivers, technicias etc. Most of this jobs dont exist when you move to renewable. Worst, the places were sun and wind are ideally placed are also not the same places where the current coal production is right now .

 

[Condom]

Many of those coal towns wouldn't even have existed on that specific place without coal right?

 

[The Greek Freak]

Many of those coal towns wouldn't even have existed on that specific place without coal right?

Exactly

 

[deadlast]

Some choice cuts from the article that make me chuckle and scratch my head at the same time.

"Even though we won the 'war on coal,' it doesn't appear that there was anything in that for the workers," he says.

Ya'll got played.

"With Trump in there doing some of the things that he's doing to eliminate some of those needless regulations, I think it's going to make a positive impact here," says Colstrip Mayor John Williams.

But when all of your customers want clean energy. You can't complain when you don't want to sell what people want to buy. If I was selling icecream and all of my customers wanted frozen yogurt, I would either start selling frozen yogurt or close up shop.

"So we can put up with all the pollution and they get the gravy," Mannix says. "And that's gone on for 40 years. And we took it. We run with it. We made it successful and now these prima donnas out there can just walk away? Well, no. Pay your way out of it now."

Didn't the Northwest cities buy what you were selling. Now they want something that is better for the environment and cheaper. This is how capitalism works. These people want just want handouts.

 

[Futureman]

Trump is such a colossal disaster for towns like Colstrip. He absolutely will do nothing to help them bring coal back and the general public are starting to resent them after they voted in a racist asshole who is pulling us out of the Paris agreement and embarrassing our country daily.

 

[UCBooties]

The party of personal responsibility strikes again!

Our way of life is unsustainable, and its the responsibility of others to support our economic niche.

Guess they'd better grab their bootstraps...

 

[LakeEarth]

They still don't get that the cut regulations are there just for the profit of the CEOs. They're not getting a cut.

 

[Boylamite]

So fucking sick of hearing about coal. Why isn't anyone talking about rotary telephones and typewriters? Who is looking out for those manufacturing jobs?

 

[Maoyama]

So fucking sick of hearing about coal. Why isn't anyone talking about rotary telephones and typewriters? Who is looking out for those manufacturing jobs?

Coal is still 30% of the source of united states power and because there is about 5 times more power being extracted from coal than from all other renewables combined. There are also technical factor that make coal a very attractive electrical generation system. Some of those include the fast response of coal power plants, the ability to store energy in the form of actual coal warehouse and ease of constructing the power plants along train tracks instead of being forced to chase the wind and sun.

 

[Warm Machine]

There is going to be massive opportunity in electrical engineering for setting up charge points. That is the future these people need to get on. Can you imagine a company that sets up chargers in underground condo parking lots. That is hundreds of thousands of chargers that you will be doing at a few grand per.

 

[AndyD]

As it has been said over and over again: I can understand why they did what they did, but that doesn't mean i forgive them without repentance.

They were, yes, deceived, but everyone has suffered the same demagoguery.
The reality is that they want to preserve their way of life - and to that, i answer fuck that.
Their way of life is ignorance, damaging the planet, polluting, riding the wave when it's their turn and asking for handouts they didn't want to give when they were in the position to.

I emphatize with their plague, but putting resources in to save their way of life? fuck, no.
Gladly put resources up to transition them out of it, though.

Pretty much, even in this interview it's highly apparent that they still don't want to grapple with the issue.

"If nothing else, at least we have a President who's on our side" shows that partisanship and tribalism is all they really want at the end of the day. If they were serious and cared about their and their kids futures, this attitude does not show it one bit.

 

[HStallion]

Coal is still 30% of the source of united states power and because there is about 5 times more power being extracted from coal than from all other renewables combined. There are also technical factor that make coal a very attractive electrical generation system. Some of those include the fast response of coal power plants, the ability to store energy in the form of actual coal warehouse and ease of constructing the power plants along train tracks instead of being forced to chase the wind and sun.

Its also on its way out for a variety of reasons and will most likely never come back unless there is a monumental change across the board. The pro's for coal are often short term and in the scheme of things, not all that important as even job's wise, green energy sources employee many times the amount that coal does and only seems to only be increasing along with the demand.

 

[Maoyama]

Its also on its way out for a variety of reasons and will most likely never come back unless there is a monumental change across the board. The pro's for coal are often short term and in the scheme of things, not all that important as even job's wise, green energy sources employee many times the amount that coal does and only seems to only be increasing along with the demand.

Coal and natural gas will be the most important source of energy for the next decade or two. Renewable will catch up and eventually be the #1 source of energy, but the base of the system cannot be ignored. That would be catastrophic for the american power grid.

On the other hand, yeah the amount of jobs in the realm of renewables will totally eclipse the jobs from coal, that is undeniable. I just don;t want people to demonize coal plants. There are many good reasons we use coal, and none of them are "coal miners" or "fuck yeah americuh"

 

[AndyD]

Coal and natural gas will be the most important source of energy for the next decade or two. Renewable will catch up and eventually be the #1 source of energy, but the base of the system cannot be ignored. That would be catastrophic for the american power grid.

On the other hand, yeah the amount of jobs in the realm of renewables will totally eclipse the jobs from coal, that is undeniable. I just don;t want people to demonize coal plants. There are many good reasons we use coal, and none of them are "coal miners" or "fuck yeah americuh"

While I agree with you, the administration and conservative media is treating it as exactly that.

 

[HStallion]

Coal and natural gas will be the most important source of energy for the next decade or two. Renewable will catch up and eventually be the #1 source of energy, but the base of the system cannot be ignored. That would be catastrophic for the american power grid.

On the other hand, yeah the amount of jobs in the realm of renewables will totally eclipse the jobs from coal, that is undeniable. I just don;t want people to demonize coal plants. There are many good reasons we use coal, and none of them are "coal miners" or "fuck yeah americuh"

Natural gas was one of the very things helping to put coal power onto its death bed. Natural gas will most certainly be around for a while but I don't think its going to be sharing that space with coal for anywhere near as long. As I saId the pro's of coal matter little against the longer term benefits of dropping it and the market has already begun to move away from it and the momentum is only growing. It has nothing to do with the coal miners for good or for bad.

 

[Maoyama]

Natural gas was one of the very things helping to put coal power onto its death bed. Natural gas will most certainly be around for a while but I don't think its going to be sharing that space with coal for anywhere near as long. As I saId the pro's of coal matter little against the longer term benefits of dropping it and the market has already begun to move away from it and the momentum is only growing. It has nothing to do with the coal miners for good or for bad.

I agree with this, but before even thinking of dropping coal a plan has to be put in place so that every coal plant taken offline is compensated at something like 130% installed capacity by a mix of hydro, wind, solar and natural gas. That way, a slow but constant economic pressure will result in sustainable moving away from coal to better forms of energy production

 

[HStallion]

I agree with this, but before even thinking of dropping coal a plan has to be put in place so that every coal plant taken offline is compensated at something like 130% installed capacity by a mix of hydro, wind, solar and natural gas. That way, a slow but constant economic pressure will result in sustainable moving away from coal to better forms of energy production

I don't think anyone expects every coal plant to be closed over night for a jump to greener power sources. Its more like no one really see's the point of opening new coal plants and that closing others or converting them might be a better strategy especially considering the way things are going in this country and in many parts of the world.

 

[Saganator]

It's like a new phenomena where people insist on sticking around in a town that should be a ghost town. There are dozens or even hundreds of ghost towns in America people left after the main source of income of the town dried up. The town and the people in it need to adapt or die. Writing has been on the wall for over a decade for these folks, my sympathy is waning.

 

[alternade]

These people have dug there own grave. Why should I, a black gay man, reach down to help lift them up when then wouldn't do the same? Time and time again we are told to feel sympathy and help these people when all they do is turn around and actively try to make life so much more difficult for other like me. I'm frankly tired of trying to reach these idiots that vote over and over to fuck themselves them blame everyone else for their failings or that we didn't get hurt enough. Let them learn how it feels for once.

 

[AndyD]

I agree with this, but before even thinking of dropping coal a plan has to be put in place so that every coal plant taken offline is compensated at something like 130% installed capacity by a mix of hydro, wind, solar and natural gas. That way, a slow but constant economic pressure will result in sustainable moving away from coal to better forms of energy production

This is exactly what's been going on over the past decade or more. No one is saying close them all tomorrow as its ludicrous. Obama's Coal Plan did just what you call for, transitioned over time with support for those individuals and communities affected.

Part of the issue is that these communities are not accepting that change is coming or has come already. They are clinging to the idea that coal will come back one day and also not looking towards retraining the workforce, moving, or otherwise compensating. They are also voting against efforts to support these transition programs, voting against support resources, and then complaining there's nothing left for them.

There was another NPR similar interview with the gas boom in the Dakotas a year or two ago. They were saying these young workers are doing back breaking work, earning a ton, and then blowing it all. In part because the local towns are charging incredibly high rates for rent, food, groceries and in part because they are young and rich and buy 50k trucks for no real reason. So long term they have no real savings or plans and will be in the same boat as these coal towns in a number of years.

At the same time, they were almost universally conservative, against any sort of welfare or support system, in part because they have money and they saw it as taxes out of their income now. This is similar, but not quite the one, as it does not have the audio interviews.

 

[RinsFury]

Fuck coal. This town can dry up and blow away for all I care. These people should have left it a long time ago.

 

[Warm Machine]

Fuck coal. This town can dry up and blow away for all I care. These people should have left it a long time ago.

Have some empathy for people. They had a way of life that was prosperous. Yes they have to adapt to a new reality but they are not really being unreasonable trying to preserve their way of life. That is a pretty human thing to do. You see cultures trying to do it in the face of modern life. These places need a plan and really Obama's plan wasn't even really known to most people prior to this article even being posted.

 

[azyless]

Have some empathy for people. They had a way of life that was prosperous. Yes they have to adapt to a new reality but they are not really being unreasonable trying to preserve their way of life. That is a pretty human thing to do. You see cultures trying to do it in the face of modern life. These places need a plan and really Obama's plan wasn't even really known to most people prior to this article even being posted.

Seems pretty unreasonable to me to vote for people who've been fucking over most of the population for decades, including your own demographic.

 

[Warm Machine]

Seems pretty unreasonable to me to vote for people who've been fucking over most of the population for decades, including your own demographic.

People are protectionist of their own interests. That isn't unreasonable, that is expected. No one wants to shift gears half way through their life and be forced to do something else. People are content making that decision for themselves because they can make a plan for it. There is no plan here and really if coal is the number one reason for an entire town to exist, including homes and associated businesses, then people have lost more than their jobs, they have lost their biggest assets. A house where no one wants to live or can work is useless. This is why cities are better choices to live. No one owes the town anything but you cannot blame people for being scared.

 

[azyless]

People are protectionist of their own interests. That isn't unreasonable, that is expected. No one wants to shift gears half way through their life and be forced to do something else. People are content making that decision for themselves because they can make a plan for it. There is no plan here and really if coal is the number one reason for an entire town to exist, including homes and associated businesses, then people have lost more than their jobs, they have lost their biggest assets. A house where no one wants to live or can work is useless. This is why cities are better choices to live. No one owes the town anything but you cannot blame people for being scared.

I can blame people for being dumb and/or hateful enough to believe Republicans and Trump give a fuck about poor people's situation.
Call me in 4 years and we can see if these people's situation is any better.

 

[AtomskEater]

"So we can put up with all the pollution and they get the gravy," Mannix says. "And that's gone on for 40 years. And we took it. We run with it. We made it successful and now these prima donnas out there can just walk away? Well, no. Pay your way out of it now."

So they were paid for their labor and the product they mined when it was sold, made bank off it, but now that things have changed and there are better options for power that cities can move on to they want those cities to give them money because.....?????

It's over. It's done. It was a sweet ride while it lasted but y'all really need to take your heads out of the sand and try to find ways to move on yourselves instead of insisting that coal can still be as big as it once was.

 

[Boylamite]

Have some empathy for people. They had a way of life that was prosperous. Yes they have to adapt to a new reality but they are not really being unreasonable trying to preserve their way of life. That is a pretty human thing to do. You see cultures trying to do it in the face of modern life. These places need a plan and really Obama's plan wasn't even really known to most people prior to this article even being posted.

Nope. Fuck those people.
I'm not American but I vote every cycle for compassion and for a strong social safety net. I am happy to vote for more taxes knowing people in need will be taken care of. I live comfortably and am willing to put some of my hard earned money towards helping others.
These people voted out of pure greed, spite and selfishness. They voted for more tax cuts, they voted to destroy the environment so they can keep the last 6 jobs in their shitty one horse towns. Democrats run on a platform of helping needy people, and these assholes continually slap their hand away.
They didn't know about Obama's plan? How about they devote even just a tiny iota of effort to understanding what their vote means? No?
Fuck em.