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[Kickz]

Toyota Long Range EVs -Reuters

TOKYO (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp is working on an electric car powered by a new type of battery that significantly increases driving range and reduces charging time, aiming to begin sales in 2022, the Chunichi Shimbun daily reported on Tuesday.

Toyota's new electric car, to be built on an all-new platform, will use all-solid-state batteries, allowing it to be recharged in just a few minutes, the newspaper said, without citing sources.

By contrast, current electric vehicles (EVs), which use lithium-ion batteries, need 20-30 minutes to recharge even with fast chargers and typically have a range of just 300-400 kilometers (185-250 miles).

Toyota has decided to sell the new model in Japan as early as 2022, the paper said.

Toyota spokeswoman Kayo Doi said the company would not comment on specific product plans but added that it aimed to commercialize all-solid-state batteries by the early 2020s.

Having long touted hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles and plug-in hybrids as the most sensible technology to make cars greener, Toyota last year said it wanted to add long-range EVs to its line-up, and set up a new in-house unit, headed by President Akio Toyoda, to develop and market EVs.

Toyota is reportedly planning to begin mass-producing EVs in China, the world's biggest auto market, as early as in 2019, although that model would be based on the existing C-HR sport utility vehicle and use lithium-ion batteries.

Gonna be interesting if they double Tesla's range and get like 600 miles on a charge, while halving charge time to like 10-15 minutes.

 

[cordy]

If it lasts as long as a Corolla does then fuck I'm in.

 

[smisk]

This sounds cool, 3 years seems pretty ambitious for such a nascent technology though.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

It's likely based on the solid state "glass electrolyte" battery technology developed by Dr. Goodenough (who also invented modern lithium ion batteries):

https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/goodenough-introduces-new-battery-technology

Changing the world once apparently wasn't good enough...

 

[Teknopathetic]

I am so hot for solid state batteries. They cannot trickle down to consumer devices fast enough.

 

[RoadHazard]

Put that shit in my phone.

 

[Costa Kid]

600 miles? Geez I'm happy with the 40km range my little Audi e-tron gets in electric mode. If there are affordable cars getting over 300km of range there are no excuses left for people buying combustion engines.

 

[Kickz]

It's likely based on the solid state "glass electrolyte" battery technology developed by Dr. Goodenough (who also invented modern lithium ion batteries):

https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/goodenough-introduces-new-battery-technology

Changing the world once apparently wasn't good enough...

Any idea how much better they would be than regular liquid ones in use now?

 

[Sparkedglory]

600 miles? Geez I'm happy with the 40km range my little Audi e-tron gets in electric mode. If there are affordable cars getting over 300km of range there are no excuses left for people buying combustion engines.

I mean I'm for it too, but "excuse" is probably a poor way to word it.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

A 94 year old man may wind up playing a huge part in bringing us a glorius sustainable world.

The ageism (and all other "-isms") that exists in the tech world needs to die.

 

[echoshifting]

I would almost certainly buy an electric car if they improved the range and reduced the charging time.

Especially if it's Toyota

 

[BlazinSkatinAxel]

Good. These 7200rpm batteries are long in the tooth.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

Any idea how much better they would be than regular liquid ones in use now?

I believe they have an energy density that is 3 times greater than lithium ion battery of the same size (3 times the range on a single charge). They last for far more charging cycles since dendrites cannot form at the electrodes (i.e., at the anode and cathode). And they charge many times faster than even quick charging lithium ion batteries (a few minutes...like filling up at the pump).

They are the answer to our battery needs.

 

[jstripes]

I wonder how they perform in the cold. That's a major concern for places where it's below zero for half the year.

 

[spelen]

Car companies like Toyota is why I fear long term investment in Tesla. In the long-term I simply cannot see how tesla can beat the big car companies who have r&d budgets ten times larger than Tesla will ever have.

 

[Deguello]

Car companies like Toyota is why I fear long term investment in Tesla. In the long-term I simply cannot see how tesla can beat the big car companies who have r&d budgets ten times larger than Tesla will ever have.

What hurts Tesla isn't their competitors' R&D budgets so much as terrible local and state laws in America that require new cars be sold at dealerships and hinder if not outright forbids new car sales over the internet. This gives the big auto companies a distinct advantage in time to react to popular upstarts like Tesla and copy/reverse engineer their technology to be disseminated through their dealership systems.

It may not be good long term for Tesla, but if the big autos are reacting by making their own long distance electrics, then that's better for us as consumers and the planet as a whole.

I just hope these batteries contain minimal toxic materials, because that's currently the oddball faux-environmentalist criticism of electric cars.

 

[Flo_Evans]

this is what I am waiting for in a EV before I jump in.

I wonder how they perform in the cold. That's a major concern for places where it's below zero for half the year.

Additionally, because the solid-glass electrolytes can operate, or have high conductivity, at -20 degrees Celsius, this type of battery in a car could perform well in subzero degree weather. This is the first all-solid-state battery cell that can operate under 60 degree Celsius.

 

[Kickz]

Car companies like Toyota is why I fear long term investment in Tesla. In the long-term I simply cannot see how tesla can beat the big car companies who have r&d budgets ten times larger than Tesla will ever have.

I don't see why they wouldn't adapt, like one of the posters above said this technology has been around in concept, so they could do their own version.

 

[AstroNut325]

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[HStallion]

I'm all for improving battery tech. If these batteries can be developed in that short a time period and are as good as they seem to be that would be huge and not just for cars. Even using those batteries in homes to help store power from solar cells would be a big deal especially with the fact they continue to work in very cold temperatures.

 

[WaterAstro]

How does that compare to Tesla?

 

[Kickz]

How does that compare to Tesla?

Potentially 3 times the range and half the charge time by the sounds of it

 

[SRG01]

this is what I am waiting for in a EV before I jump in.

Ugh, but it gets to -30C in my city

On a more serious note though, this type of tech would be amazing for grid-level storage and other industrial applications that need high power densities.

 

[T.v]

This is truly an exciting new technology and can't come soon enough. The increased range this is supposed to give, plus the short charge times could finally see Electric cars truly match gasoline powered ones.
Honestly, if it were up to me i'd ban all gasoline cars from being manufactured ASAP but that won't happen anytime soon.

 

[WaterAstro]

This is truly an exciting new technology and can't come soon enough. The increased range this is supposed to give, plus the short charge times could finally see Electric cars truly match gasoline powered ones.
Honestly, if it were up to me i'd ban all gasoline cars from being manufactured ASAP but that won't happen anytime soon.

Well, we would still need to rely on renewable energy for electricity. That's not going to happen with America.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

It's likely based on the solid state "glass electrolyte" battery technology developed by Dr. Goodenough (who also invented modern lithium ion batteries):

https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/goodenough-introduces-new-battery-technology

Changing the world once apparently wasn't good enough...

Awesome name LOL

 

[Rentahamster]

I am excited and aroused by all this competition and R&D into new, usable, battery tech.

 

[johancruijff]

Good. These 7200rpm batteries are long in the tooth.

i wonder how fast the car will start

 

[LegendofJoe]

I wonder how they perform in the cold. That's a major concern for places where it's below zero for half the year.

It can operate in negative 20 Celsius.

 

[Zaru]

Don't care about cars, I need these in my consumer products like phones.

 

[O Canada Our Home and Native Land]

Do they have anything because this reads like bad science journalism? I'm sure people at MIT are working on time travel and teleportation, but it doesn't mean anything will come out of it.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

Don't care about cars, I need these in my consumer products like phones.

You like clean air and water and a livable climate?

Then you'll probably care about these batteries in cars (and hopefully in grid storage, as well).

 

[sixteen-bit]

Will be interesting to see how this progresses.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Are all batteries not solid state? Or is this in reference to free flowing liquids in a battery?

 

[Dominator]

I work for Toyota, hope this happens.

 

[bionic77]

Someone explain what solid state batteries are.

For the dumber GAF members.

To be clear I am not asking for myself. I personally understand what all of those words mean I also understand science having graduated from high school. I am actually asking for a friend. A dumb friend to be more specific.

 

[Khaz]

Awesome name LOL

And still working on improving his life work at 94. Definitely doesn't live up to his name.

 

[Kickz]

Are all batteries not solid state? Or is this in reference to free flowing liquids in a battery?

From my understanding current lithium batteries contain liquid, while Solid State have glass rather than liquid. So they would in effect last longer, and charge quicker.

Someone can correct me if I am off.

 

[Kthulhu]

Well, we would still need to rely on renewable energy for electricity. That's not going to happen with America.

Except it is happening. More and more big companies are switching to renewable energy. Lots of cities are too.

Edit: not to mention the increasing number of individuals using solar panels in their homes.

A 94 year old man may wind up playing a huge part in bringing us a glorius sustainable world.

The ageism (and all other "-isms") that exists in the tech world needs to die.

It's esspecially odd considering some of the biggest inovations in human history are from old dudes.

 

[Melon Husk]

Aww yiss HD batteries

Someone explain what solid state batteries are.

For the dumber GAF members.

To be clear I am not asking for myself. I personally understand what all of those words mean I also understand science having graduated from high school. I am actually asking for a friend. A dumb friend to be more specific.

ArsTechnica explains it clearly as they usually do https://arstechnica.com/science/201...itches-solvents-reaches-supercapacitor-rates/

How is this all possible? They got rid of the liquid electrolyte typical of most lithium-ion batteries.

In principle, batteries are structurally very simple: two electrodes where ions exchange electrons, separated by an electrolyte that allows the ions to shuffle between the two. These electrolytes are almost always liquids, since they can easily dissolve the ions, allowing their free movement between the electrodes. Unfortunately, leaking electrolytes are often a cause of failure in these batteries. Fixing this is a challenge—you can't just shove ions through a solid, right?

...

Why is this solid electrolyte so high performing? It's structured so that it provides natural avenues for the lithium ions to travel along, and its three-dimensional mesh allows them to bypass any defects. And, within the solid, there are simply more lithium ions per unit volume than you can possibly get in a solution—over 20 times as many. Because the solid can't freeze and won't chemically degrade at high temperatures, it has a much higher operating range. Plus, it won't leak anywhere.

 

[muu]

Someone explain what solid state batteries are.

For the dumber GAF members.

To be clear I am not asking for myself. I personally understand what all of those words mean I also understand science having graduated from high school. I am actually asking for a friend. A dumb friend to be more specific.

From the Utexas article posted by muppet:

Today’s lithium-ion batteries use liquid electrolytes to transport the lithium ions between the anode (the negative side of the battery) and the cathode (the positive side of the battery). If a battery cell is charged too quickly, it can cause dendrites or “metal whiskers” to form and cross through the liquid electrolytes, causing a short circuit that can lead to explosions and fires. Instead of liquid electrolytes, the researchers rely on glass electrolytes that enable the use of an alkali-metal anode without the formation of dendrites.

 

[AtomicShroom]

It can operate in negative 20 Celsius.

So when it's -30 Celsius like it gets in winter in most of Canada, the car won't start? This is DOA then.

 

[SuperRaddy]

Good, i have a weekly commute that is 350 miles each way, with UK gov banning petrol/diesel cars come 2040 the game needs to be upped as no fucking way will i be paying the train fairs come 2040

 

[hermit7]

I looked but didn't find any actual information on the engineering of the battery. Namely one of the concerns with lithium ion is the scarcity of the element in general. So what exactly is this new battery made of, and is it more environmentally friendly to mine and produce compared with other battery technologies?

 

[Muppet of a Man]

I looked but didn't find any actual information on the engineering of the battery. Namely one of the concerns with lithium ion is the scarcity of the element in general. So what exactly is this new battery made of, and is it more environmentally friendly to mine and produce compared with other battery technologies?

https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/goodenough-introduces-new-battery-technology

 

[spelen]

What hurts Tesla isn't their competitors' R&D budgets so much as terrible local and state laws in America that require new cars be sold at dealerships and hinder if not outright forbids new car sales over the internet. This gives the big auto companies a distinct advantage in time to react to popular upstarts like Tesla and copy/reverse engineer their technology to be disseminated through their dealership systems.

It may not be good long term for Tesla, but if the big autos are reacting by making their own long distance electrics, then that's better for us as consumers and the planet as a whole.

I just hope these batteries contain minimal toxic materials, because that's currently the oddball faux-environmentalist criticism of electric cars.

Exactly this and the fact that unlike Tesla Toyota has a global reach. Note that they specifically said they're beginning ev rollout in China. Tesla can't feasibly handle such a global supply chain. Give it two three years and every major auto manufacturer will match or exceed whatever Tesla can do.

 

[spelen]

I don't see why they wouldn't adapt, like one of the posters above said this technology has been around in concept, so they could do their own version.

To me it's not a question about their ability to adapt it's more about their capability to do so in a timely manner. and in fact staying ahead of competition which is what has led Tesla to where they are today. There is absolutely no question in my mind that people would rather purchase from a large established manufacturer if they had similar specs to that of what Tesla offers today and the fact is they will in the future in the very near future

 

[East Lake]

Exactly this and the fact that unlike Tesla Toyota has a global reach. Note that they specifically said they're beginning ev rollout in China. Tesla can't feasibly handle such a global supply chain. Give it two three years and every major auto manufacturer will match or exceed whatever Tesla can do.

It's probably more like five to ten years. If you don't believe me search around for the major automakers plans to go electric. They're really not that aggressive compared to Tesla, and Tesla won't have a ton of stranded assets.

 

[Zackat]

Solid state batteries sound sexy

 

[bionic77]

Aww yiss HD batteries


ArsTechnica explains it clearly as they usually do https://arstechnica.com/science/201...itches-solvents-reaches-supercapacitor-rates/

Wow that sounds like it is a huge leap forward.

I wonder about cost, safety, how long it will take to go into production and lastly if it is any better for the environment as compared to Lithium. Hopefully these solid state materials don't need rare earth minerals.