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UC4 Game Director Justin Richmond Leaves ND (And famousmortimer leaves GAF #1393)

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If they legitimately heard it from a source that they trusted, you can not fault them for running the story. It was not some TMZ level thing, it would have been directly related to why she left. Why on earth would Mortimer lie, certainly not for clicks.
Yeah I'm still not sure if FM was positing that he heard it from a source or if he was simply speculating; either way he presented it as fact. Anyway it was really his behavior afterwards (unwitting or not) that probably earned him the permanent ban.

I think it was a learning experience for everyone here. And if Pete moves forward with that site of his I like to think he'll take this lesson to heart and will be more careful in the future. Video game rumors are a lot of fun, sometimes, but this was one that could have unfairly damaged an individual's reputation.
 

Kacho

Member
He had everything to do with people getting vocal about it. Whether you want to believe that changed anything is up to you. I personally believe it did, at least in Microsoft's end.

I'll give you the first part, but his "movement" wasn't the reason the PS4 had no DRM. You're free to choose what you want to believe with regards to Microsoft.
 

Zen

Banned
Yeah I'm still not sure if FM was positing that he heard it from a source or if he was simply speculating; either way he presented it as fact. Anyway it was really his behavior afterwards (unwitting or not) that probably earned him the permanent ban.

I think it was a learning experience for everyone here. And if Pete moves forward with that site of his I like to think he'll take this lesson to heart and will be more careful in the future. Video game rumors are a lot of fun, sometimes, but this was one that could have unfairly damaged an individual's reputation.


Sorry, it seems like that was his last post on the forum. If there some alternate source showing how he reacted after?

I think it would be a shame if everyone had to start putting qualifiers in front of their posts, but in a way I can not argue with the accountability angle considering how big the forum supposedly is in the industry.
 
Exactly how I felt reading posts from page 38 and forward now that I have the chance to do it. It was really uncomfortable watching Mort being lynched 'live', so to speak, as I read through the sequence of events. Not that he wasn't responsible for his actions but I couldn't help but cringing through it all.

I would have felt bad if he had just apologized right when he knew he was wrong.
 
I'll give you the first part, but his "movement" wasn't the reason the PS4 had no DRM. You're free to choose what you want to believe with regards to Microsoft.
I think thats fair. He got people talking about it, being very vocal about it. Sony comes out at E3 swinging and driving the no DRM point home. That got MS to 180. Would SONY have made that such a huge part of the presentation without the movement? Who knows.
 
Sorry, it seems like that was his last post on the forum. If there some alternate source showing how he reacted after?

I think it would be a shame if everyone had to start putting qualifiers in front of their posts, but in a way I can not argue with the accountability angle considering how big the forum supposedly is in the industry.
nhTI2FD.png


(He said later he didn't know about Col's post at the time he tweeted that, but the damage was done.)
 

FyreWulff

Member
Tabloid news is digusting and people really need to stop feeding the beast. Pretty much why you can damn near safely discount anyone that says they're going to change journalism, the siren call of wanting to channel the fame points and clicks pulls people in fast.
 

Chamber

love on your sleeve
Evolution being an incompetent set of developers who can't deliver a game and that DC has been "last guardian'd" has been the residing point in nearly all Driveclub threads since November.

The recent rumours on here specifying people involved in development are exceptionally toxic, but lets not pretend huge swathes of GAFers aren't out to slander whole development teams when rumours pop up on here about delays and downgrades.

A lot of truth in this post, not really getting enough attention. Personally, I want to try to avoid those types of discussions.
 
Question.

Since I really don't want to read several pages of this thread and several other threads to find out what the fuck is going on, can someone give me a quick recap?

All I've gathered is that mort said something he shouldn't have and got banned for it.
 
I'm a junior member here, and I love this community to death, so I don't want to risk posting about topics (such as this one) that people might feel I'm not qualified enough to weigh in on. Also, I don't want to step on any toes, or come off as anything but respectfully sharing my opinion. I also don't know Pete personally, not have I ever spoken to him at all. Just a disclosure here...

I know a lot of people who suffer from clinical depression. I also know a lot of people who sometimes exhibit signs of being in a state of depression, but have not told anyone about it nor are seeking any help, or guidance as to if they need help. For awhile, I was one of those people, and for years I struggled with it.

As someone who sees how Pete words things, his reactions, his comments, his style of typing, I feel that there is a *possibility* that he might exhibit some signs of it. Again, that's a huge generalization on my part, and like I said, I've never spoken to him at all or know him in any way. But occasionally, following him since I became a member here, a phrase or a reaction or something he said will pop out at me as something I might hear one of my family members (who is clinically depressed) would say or react.

I'm not hear to weigh in any more about what he did, because lots of others already have. I simply just want to urge some caution as to how people word their displeasure towards him and his actions. Like nobody realizing that Col left due to the personal health and well being of his child, it's hard to get caught up in things and not realize that Pete is also a person. "Cyberbullying" is often talked about as if people are just being a bunch of pussies who need to man up. But it's real, and it hurts, and it can do a lot more harm to someone than people realize. I know the comment on his Wordpress from "San Mateo" wasn't made by someone here in this thread, but that's a perfect example of just going way too overboard. And some posts I've read here, not a lot, but some, have tip-toed around that line.

Again, I'm not telling anyone what to do. As a new GAF member who knows enough to see how others get banned, I know not to do that. I just want to implore some to exercise a bit of caution as to how they word things.

Thanks for reading, sorry if it wasted anyone's time.
 

Madness

Member
Don't really want to bring up the subject, but what's the line between speculation based on what we know in the industry and libel? Would it be presenting it as "fact" instead of speculation? Like if someone writes "I'm guessing he probably didn't get along with so and so on the team". Just curious so I can avoid saying things like that in the future myself.
 

Valnen

Member
Don't really want to bring up the subject, but what's the line between speculation based on what we know in the industry and libel? Would it be present it as "fact" instead of speculation? Like if someone writes "I'm guessing he probably didn't get along with so and so on the team". Just curious so I can avoid saying things like that in the future myself.

I feel like if you even sort of have to ask, it's best to just not say anything.
 

Arkam

Member
The goal here isn't to ban people from posting rumors, it's to get people to think about what they're posting and not just regurgitate anything they hear.

For example, here are some simple guidelines that make a rumor posting vastly better:

1.) Generally speaking, do not post negative personal rumors about staff on GAF, and by that I mean things like someone getting fired or forced out or whatever. If you feel strongly about your information, e-mail a site like Kotaku or Polygon with your evidence and let them handle getting additional confirmation and also commentary from the person the rumor is about, and decide whether or not it's worth posting. Now, if it's something like "Oh yeah, they left to found an indie studio, get excited!", I'm not really concerned about that, but strive to not do anything libelous or disrespectful.

2.) In case this isn't clear, it is okay to post rumors about a bunch of people being laid off (not fired, but explicitly laid off) from a studio. We have allowed this in the past and will continue to do so in the future. Please really try to make sure you're certain about this first though. Similarly, if you see a bunch of staff members mentioning they were laid off on twitter, obviously that's fine to post about.

Now, for rumors that aren't about staff:

3.) Never overplay your hand. Only share what you know, and if you wish to make any additional speculation, clearly mark it as speculation. Make sure to state your level of certainty about the core rumor as well. If you've heard that something "has a chance of happening", it's totally different than hearing that it "will happen". This also applies if different parts of the rumor have different levels of credibility. For example, if you've heard that Naughty Dog is definitely making a space shooter and heard that it might have a budget nearing $75 million, make sure that you present the budget as a less certain fact than the game existing. You should explicitly make these kinds of distinctions to the best of your ability.

4.) Ask yourself "Would the person who told me this actually know this information?" Let's say you have a rumor about a game having multiplayer. If your source is a QA person working on that product, they probably do know that information. Let's say your rumor is that a senior staff member was fired (which you shouldn't be posting anyway). If your source is a QA person at a 300+ person studio, chances are they actually don't know that for certain. If your source is an external QA person who doesn't even work at the studio, you should be extremely skeptical of the rumor even if you personally trust the person, since they could easily be hearing gossip that was presented to them as fact.

5.) Ask yourself "Does this rumor make sense?" If your rumor is that Naughty Dog is making an iOS game about farting cats, even if your source is someone at the studio, you might want to think if they're playing a joke on you. Game studios generally aren't water tight, especially if you know what information you are looking for. Check their job postings and public statements and linkedin resumes, and see if that adds up with the information you've heard. A rumor sprung up that Visceral was making a Battlefield title. It was really easy for me to find buckets full of information supporting this. Chances are you can find at least one thing confirming your rumor before you bother to post it, even if you don't share what that thing is in order to protect your source. There are obviously rumors where this isn't true, but it may be worth noting in your post that you couldn't find external evidence confirming or even hinting at this.

6.) Before you hit post, ask yourself one last time "After checking all this information, do I actually believe this, or at least find it notably plausible?" Chances are that if you've completed the previous steps, by this point you do, but it's worth checking one last time and deciding if you want to do a bit more research first, especially if it's something farfetched.

Pretty much killed any reason to post or read on GAF. Might as well be ign.com
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
Sony execs have said that it helped.

PR fluff for an obvious move to one-up MS after the backlash. If the DRM-fiasco/gate/whatever you want to call it that the 720 announcement didn't cause, you think they wouldn't do it?

This is the same Sony that after two generations of free online finally copied MS and made a pay-wall to play online. You think they wouldn't do DRM the same as MS's proposed if they could get away with it?
 
Evolution being an incompetent set of developers who can't deliver a game and that DC has been "last guardian'd" has been the residing point in nearly all Driveclub threads since November.

The recent rumours on here specifying people involved in development are exceptionally toxic, but lets not pretend huge swathes of GAFers aren't out to slander whole development teams when rumours pop up on here about delays and downgrades.

This. Every day people here are guilty of the same kind of shit Dodd is now being villified for. Sometimes it feels like people are on a mission to see who can appear most cynical and jaded, rationality be damned.
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
Yes, because Indiegogo offered to extend it another 30 day because most campaigns are 60 days, not 30 as he initially set it.

Keep that spin going...

http://support.indiegogo.com/hc/en-us/articles/201874537-How-To-Choose-Your-Goal-and-Deadline said:
How to Set Your Deadline

1. More time doesn't equal more money.

Campaigns on Indiegogo can run for a maximum of 60 days, regardless of which funding structure you choose. More time does not always mean a higher chance of reaching your goal. You should steadily raise funds through the duration of your campaign, so it's important to consider how long you can actively manage it. Successful campaigns on Indiegogo have an average deadline of 47 days (Indiegogo Insights: 1, 2).

AKA: "Kickstarter/IGG can run up to 60 days or less at your choosing." He chose his period and then extended it. Don't believe his spin that "IGG offered to extend it." He completely extended the deadline beyond his initial period to the maximum offered/allowed because his funding is bombing.
 

Valnen

Member
Sometimes it feels like people are on a mission to see who can appear most cynical and jaded, rationality be damned.

I feel like this is a problem with video game "culture" (I hate that word) in general. It seems very common on just about every website related to gaming. People are always looking for the next big controversy.
 

Fracas

#fuckonami
Don't really want to bring up the subject, but what's the line between speculation based on what we know in the industry and libel? Would it be presenting it as "fact" instead of speculation? Like if someone writes "I'm guessing he probably didn't get along with so and so on the team". Just curious so I can avoid saying things like that in the future myself.

Libel is basically reporting something untrue and harmful to someone's rep as fact. Speculation/opinion is usually fine, though you definitely have to be clear when doing so. Doing what others have mentioned e.g. confirming with 2+ sources, getting commentary from those involved, etc. helps to avoid this kind of situation.

What Dodd did was pretty much libel, sadly. It's good that he has apologized but it still sucks for the guy affected. Hopefully his rep isn't harmed.
Tabloid news is digusting and people really need to stop feeding the beast. Pretty much why you can damn near safely discount anyone that says they're going to change journalism, the siren call of wanting to channel the fame points and clicks pulls people in fast.

If I ever get into the field of games journalism (highly doubtful but maybe I'll get lucky) then I will do everything in my power to keep it honest.
 

ironcreed

Banned
Seems news might start to get pretty slow for awhile. Ah well. The risks you run when you are considered an insider.

I would rather have a slow, but reliable drip of verified news than a bunch of bogus bullshit that snowballs and takes on a life of it's own being dropped left and right by less than reputable sources. Not to mention that it would make GAF look a lot better as well.
 

Tripon

Member
Keep that spin going...



AKA: "Kickstarter/IGG can run up to 60 days or less at your choosing." He chose his period and then extended it. Don't believe his spin that "IGG offered to extend it." He completely extended the deadline beyond his initial period to the maximum offered/allowed because his funding is bombing.

Sure, if that's how you want to see it. You are right it was ultimately at Pete Dodd's discretion to extend it, but how exactly does that contradict somebody at Indiegogo telling Dodd that he had that option again?
 

Paracelsus

Member
I'm still flabbergasted at how this whole thing unfolded. Gaf is easily the place that holds the record for the biggest number of industry members and high caliber developers. How in the hell do you go in the place davidjaffe randomly posts in and the same place that kicked out denis dyack, and say x-guy was asked to leave a team because he choked on the project? What does he gain from fake sensationalism that comes at such a high price?
 
Keep that spin going...



AKA: "Kickstarter/IGG can run up to 60 days or less at your choosing." He chose his period and then extended it. Don't believe his spin that "IGG offered to extend it." He completely extended the deadline beyond his initial period to the maximum offered/allowed because his funding is bombing.

Can you blame anyone for not funding it? Go on Indidgogo and look at his stretch goals. Like wtf? I don't think he knows how KS/IGG work. The more you donate the greater the reward, not a sarcastic comment and the same reward as the $15 tier.
 

prwxv3

Member
Evolution being an incompetent set of developers who can't deliver a game and that DC has been "last guardian'd" has been the residing point in nearly all Driveclub threads since November.

The recent rumours on here specifying people involved in development are exceptionally toxic, but lets not pretend huge swathes of GAFers aren't out to slander whole development teams when rumours pop up on here about delays and downgrades.

It's not as bad because it's only speculation and not insider posts but it's almost gotten to the point where it's unbareable to me to read through. And while speculation should be welcome and encouraged on GAF the high and mighty "I'm right you are wrong and you are stupid for thinking so" speculators need to be toned down.
 

ironcreed

Banned
Going back reading...Im not really seeing any "witch hunt" at all.

That's because there is not one. GAF is simply better than letting pseudo insiders get away with posting nonsense for too long and this thread is an example of the mods taking action on that, with a resulting discussion afterwards. If there is a witch hunt for anything, it's for posting FUD and inaccurate info. Which is a good thing.
 

Jomjom

Banned
This got me wondering, did whoever at IGN who wrote that thing about Druckman and Hennig ever personally apologize to Druckman? That was pretty much the same exact thing.
 

Vire

Member
This got me wondering, did whoever at IGN who wrote that thing about Druckman and Hennig ever personally apologize to Druckman? That was pretty much the same exact thing.

Mitch Dyer, and no he did not apologize and he stands by what he said apparently.
 

I-hate-u

Member
Evolution being an incompetent set of developers who can't deliver a game and that DC has been "last guardian'd" has been the residing point in nearly all Driveclub threads since November.

The recent rumours on here specifying people involved in development are exceptionally toxic, but lets not pretend huge swathes of GAFers aren't out to slander whole development teams when rumours pop up on here about delays and downgrades.

Is it possible that we get clear answer on why DriveClub did not meet its deadline? They supposedly have been working on the game since 2011 which is about the same time frame for SuckerPunch and Gureilla. I do not believe Evolution is incompetent. They are great devs.

This was the wrong game for them to work on imo though.
 

mattiewheels

And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
Keep that spin going...



AKA: "Kickstarter/IGG can run up to 60 days or less at your choosing." He chose his period and then extended it. Don't believe his spin that "IGG offered to extend it." He completely extended the deadline beyond his initial period to the maximum offered/allowed because his funding is bombing.
Can people retract their funding? I noticed he extended it by a month, too. I know he gets to keep what he makes but if refunds are allowed this could be bad for him.
 
sorry but a few hundred or thousand tweets with a hashtag wasn't going to change a fundamental hardware/software decision for a multinational company

You are vastly underrating the scope it reached. It spread far and wide, and was covered by nearly every gaming media outlet with a decent following.

The voices were there before Pete's thread, but he helped organize things, helped unify all posters into a single deafening sound. Let's give credit where it's due and not rewrite what happened.

You should revisit that thread and see how things came about.
 

TsuWave

Member
PR fluff for an obvious move to one-up MS after the backlash. If the DRM-fiasco/gate/whatever you want to call it that the 720 announcement didn't cause, you think they wouldn't do it?

This is the same Sony that after two generations of free online finally copied MS and made a pay-wall to play online. You think they wouldn't do DRM the same as MS's proposed if they could get away with it?

not this again.
 

cameron

Member
kyRWU2R.png


Druckmann dropping truth bombs on IGN and GAF. :/

Yup.

Going back reading...Im not really seeing any "witch hunt" at all.

I think it's the volume of posts commenting on the issue that gives the appearance of a "witch hunt". GAF is huge, with its large number of active members. There's probably several individual posts here that go overboard, but the overall ratio is probably leaning towards criticism rather than a public lynching.

Dodd's blog statement about the situation seems sincere, imo. He acknowledges and breaks down every possible misstep.
 
Yup.



I think it's the volume of posts commenting on the issue that gives the appearance of a "witch hunt". GAF is huge, with its large number of active members. There's probably several individual posts here that go overboard, but the overall ratio is probably leaning towards criticism rather than a public lynching.

Dodd's blog statement about the situation seems sincere, imo. He acknowledges and breaks down every possible misstep.
I suppose like you said gaf is large. The volume is expected. But everybody here has the right to say something, nobody should call that witch hunt it makes criticism sound like a bad thing.
 
I just recently voiced my concerns on the insider issue so I can't say I'm surprised by any of this. Best of luck to you and your family Col, I hope everything works out for the best.
 
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