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UN: Marijuana-related health problems on rise in US
- Thread starter RustyNails
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GeordieMark
Member
A strawman is misrepresentation of the other persons argument, which is what is being done. One person says weed can have a certain effect on the brain of those susceptible, the next responds that so do other substances. That was never in debate.
Both sides are doing it.
umm.... okay? That's exactly what people are doing when they start bringing up how harmful other substances are when no one is saying otherwise.
I don't think anyone can seriously rationalise that cannabis is harmless, either on here or in real life. Anyone who tries is mostly ill-informed.
I think a main issue is that there are many arguments brought up by governments to try and justify their stances on it by using arguments of the health effects, both physical and mental, which can be said about most substances. And after hearing that for many years, it becomes very annoying to those who would like to see it decriminalised.
For example, UK government fired the medical advisor on drug policy because he said that cannabis and MDA have been misrepresented in terms of harmful effects compared to alcohol and cigarettes
I think a main issue is that there are many arguments brought up by governments to try and justify their stances on it by using arguments of the health effects, both physical and mental, which can be said about most substances. And after hearing that for many years, it becomes very annoying to those who would like to see it decriminalised.
For example, UK government fired the medical advisor on drug policy because he said that cannabis and MDA have been misrepresented in terms of harmful effects compared to alcohol and cigarettes
I presume the argument was used to say ''ok guys Marijuana is dangerous'' while that could be said of any substance then when we look at people with a tendency for a mental illness.
So why bring it up then?
We could then also say Coca Cola is dangerous and should be banned, because of the caffeine.
The comparisons tend to come out when people who drink alcohol and/or smoke are all "naw, man, we cannot legalise cannabis because it's so dangerous".
I think it's mainly done do point out the hypocrisy. They want their own drug legal but still fight tooth and nail to keep a less dangerous drug banned.
GeordieMark
Member
To be honest, I couldn't care less if it's banned or not. I managed to smoke it for years despite it being illegal where I live.
I'm seeing hypocrisy on both sides of the argument.
My personal thoughts on weed are that it's good fun, I love the stuff. The way it smells, tastes, being high, everything. I stopped smoking it because I could feel it affecting me and wanted to have a clear head.
I think some of you guys are thinking that I am vehemently anti-weed which isn't true. I'm pro-choice on the subject and would have no issue with legalisation. I just wish there was more proper education on the pros and cons, rather than propaganda from the pro and anti-weed folks.
That would be welcome, yes.
I'm just used to the debate in Sweden, i guess. The prohibition side here is about as progressive and reasonable as an Iranian mullah.
The Albatross
Member
Seriously, who fights tooth and nail to get marijuana banned anymore? Like, temperance unions do, but ... they're usually not the first people crushing 30-racks of bud ice, either.
Zoe
Member
Are these not calling it harmless?
Especially considering this was posted just shortly before those:
It would be a strawman if others were saying "how can you be against weed but in favor of alcohol/cigarettes when all are equally harmful?"
But I digress. I am pros legalization but I rarely smoke. I'm a pre-med student too and I'm well aware of all of the benefits and harms of weed. One of the labs I'm hoping to get into next semester deals with cannabis from a neurological standpoint. I'll leave it at that.
We have a minister of justice who posted the spoof article on colorado-legislation causing 50 cannabis overdose-deaths in a single day (if you remember?). She thought the article was true and resolved to keep fighting the good fight against cannabis. Later in the week she was seen drunk in public.
kurisu1974
Banned
I wasn't calling it harmless, no. For a start inhaling burning matter is never going to be completely harmless, whatever it is, and of course it has an effect on your brain so situations like high people injuring themselves due to not paying proper attention are always going to happen.
I just meant that you'll never be in serious trouble to the extent that you need to be hospitalised, caused directly by smoking weed. You can't overdose on it and die like cocaine, you can't smoke so much you have no control over yourself like alcohol. Probably the worst possible thing that can happen is a panic attack like the one you quoted, but as terrifying as I'm sure that was, I don't think hospital was strictly necessary. Someone in that situation might feel like they're going to die, and that sense of panic might speed the heart rate and worsen the situation, but there is no evidence, ever, anywhere, showing that marijuana has ever caused a death, so that would be purely a bad feeling caused by the temporarily changed mental state, unless they were legitimately having an unrelated heart attack. I've had a similar episode 5-6 years ago and it passed after a friend spoke to me calmly and explained that I was fine.
dutchguyjack
Member
Correlation != Causation
Time to go back to the drawing board on this one.
Time to go back to the drawing board on this one.
The Albatross
Member
I had to look it up because this was such an obscure anecdotal point, but in any event that's not what happened according to the BBC: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/07/sweden-justice-minister-spoof-marijuana-deaths-story
point is, nobody "fights marijuana tooth and nail" and then tries to fight for the legality of things like drinking and smoking. The people who usually fight "tooth and nail" against marijuana are usually against other perceived vices as well.
Alternatively, stop pretending that someone who doesn't agree with your opinion about something is "fighting you tooth and nail." They're not. They just don't fucking care.
No, what i said is exactly what happened in regards to our minister of justice. I don't get how it's "an obscure point" at all. It's a perfect illustration of the situation in Sweden.
All those things you describe as "things that usually don't happen", happens. A lot. The resistance is fierce and fundamentalist. And they don't mind getting drunk as a rule. It's the vodka belt after all.
If someone could have posted this on the first page we all could have saved a lot of debate haha.
What a volatile thread. There are strawmen and assumptions to go around it would seem.
"Pot is completely harmless" - there are a couple posts implying this, but the majority of the posters haven't said it and were quick to distance themselves from this.
"Alcohol and Tobacco are bad too but are legal" - assumes the poster in question is against legalization of marijuana, which isn't being debated at all and is completely tangent to the actual topic.
"Cannabis users are all being intelligent, all the anti-weed people are just spewing nebulous bullshit and lies" - made by exactly one person and not a strawman, but I'll mention it because it's pretty much the apex of how immature this 'discussion' is getting.
I think we can at least agree that the article in the OP doesn't have much in the way of hard scientific fact, which is the only thing that will really* put the debate of cannabis's side effects to rest.
*not really.
"Pot is completely harmless" - there are a couple posts implying this, but the majority of the posters haven't said it and were quick to distance themselves from this.
"Alcohol and Tobacco are bad too but are legal" - assumes the poster in question is against legalization of marijuana, which isn't being debated at all and is completely tangent to the actual topic.
"Cannabis users are all being intelligent, all the anti-weed people are just spewing nebulous bullshit and lies" - made by exactly one person and not a strawman, but I'll mention it because it's pretty much the apex of how immature this 'discussion' is getting.
I think we can at least agree that the article in the OP doesn't have much in the way of hard scientific fact, which is the only thing that will really* put the debate of cannabis's side effects to rest.
*not really.
Hale-XF11
Member
For starters, we need more widespread education on the incredibly wide variety of strains (indica vs. sativa vs. hybrids) as well as THC to CBD ratios and how those things affect us.
I suspect that people who experience panic attack-like symptoms are using sativa dominant strains with a higher level of THC.
Unfortunately, as many of us know, in states where it's illegal, many people simply don't know what they're getting from their dealer or for that matter that different strains affect us all differently. To people not in the know or who are new to it, marijuana is just marijuana.
I suspect that people who experience panic attack-like symptoms are using sativa dominant strains with a higher level of THC.
Unfortunately, as many of us know, in states where it's illegal, many people simply don't know what they're getting from their dealer or for that matter that different strains affect us all differently. To people not in the know or who are new to it, marijuana is just marijuana.
mckmas8808
Banned
This can be worse than smoking weed.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Oh man I'm not cool?
If you over 20 and still a pothead, no.
BlackGoku03
Member
QFT
I read the quote in the OP and there are almost no specifics in the article. It's a rehash of every other article I see stating the adverse effects of weed.
In effect like in its potency? or like it will get you fat and high?
Anyone getting bent out of shape over this internet businesses should stop coming to the internet, it's totally not worth it.
mckmas8808
Banned
In its potency
Yeah okay buddy.
HighAmperage
Member
Binge drinking like an imbecile is still ok though?
Yes i prefer to smoke over eating it.
I know, I wish I could keep joining these discussions, it's purely a personal flaw that I can't. The problems I created for myself through my drug use represent the darkest period of my life - the way someone who suggests that a discussion about (mental) health issues because of using weed gets ridiculed and accused of pushing an agenda or employing scare tactics makes it a bit too personal for me. I think it's perfectly possible to use the stuff without destroying their lives, and I think that people should be able to use and enjoy it if they want to. But I also think that the reality of serious possible consequences can not be denied at this point, and cutting any attempt at a conversation about this short like that is hurtful to me. I wish it wasn't, and that I wouldn't take it so personally because I know that's not how people intend it. It's a flaw. But seeing close friends continue to suffer in the same situation I was under a couple of years ago and the guilt that comes with that (I enabled their situation for years) just doesn't make me able to join this crowd. The majority of Gaf isn't ready to listen to opinions like that at this point. I guess it's in part because a lot of them are based in the US, and the legalisation of weed is fairly new. It's hard to consider the bad parts without getting labeled as anti-weed. It's been legal in my country since the 70s, so public/scientific opinion has been evened out a lot more without people getting accused of pushing social or political agendas. For every poster who keeps a level head during these discussions there are 9 others who keep shouting 'no one ever died from weed!' 'I bet you don't drink coffee or alcohol too, right?' 'Famous scientist x smoked all the time', or, on the other end of the spectrum 'every one who does it turns into a no-brained loser'. There's apparently no middle road possible on Gaf where people can discuss these issues like adults without trying to push others into a black-and-white scenario.
This post already turned out way too long, so I'll leave it at this. I'm fine with people not believing that people suffering from the issues discussed in this topic are real, I just can't force myself to read it anymore. It hits too close to home.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Baron Doggystyle von Woof
Member
Shut up UN. Holland has semi legal weed since 70s and we have nog big healthcare issues. I don't expect USA will.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Who is doing this?
I think you're reading people say "this article and most things about weed are bullshit," which is completely true because it's just slimy propaganda, and you're taking it as a personal offense when it has nothing to do with your situation at all. No one is denying that these things can happen, and I actually feel like I've read more about legit weed panic attacks and problems in this thread than I have read anyone try to be skeptical of it.
I think part of the reason it gives some people panic attacks is because they have learned to be scared of weed. That coupled with how it increases paranoia make some people freak out. Someone may try it because of peer pressure or whatever or do too much their first time and it leads to a panic attack. I'm not saying that is always the case, just my perception.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
I think you might of misunderstood my post. It had nothing to do with the legalization but rather I was referring to "second hand marijuana smoke" for lack of a better term, and the effect it might have on other people such as children, in say, a small room. Again though, I'm playing devil's advocate on this and not arguing a point.
neoism
Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWhUqo9Aivs
lol threads like these are funny...
I just dont fucking get it... there is NOT ONE report of someone DYING after smoking weed. :/ I smoke EAIRA DAY.... I've had one or two panic attacks also after smoking some awesome shit after taking a break, but it passed and I just continued to smoke and it didn't happen again. Been smoking weed for 5 years, is that bad for my health, more than likely, will I get cancer most likely no. I've yet to see someone get CANCER from only smoking weed... I do vap as well but the pipe is just easier. I dont drink(anymore) I dont smoke cigs. In 10,000 years we have been smoking weed not one person has died from it.
I just don't understand.
lol threads like these are funny...
I just dont fucking get it... there is NOT ONE report of someone DYING after smoking weed. :/ I smoke EAIRA DAY.... I've had one or two panic attacks also after smoking some awesome shit after taking a break, but it passed and I just continued to smoke and it didn't happen again. Been smoking weed for 5 years, is that bad for my health, more than likely, will I get cancer most likely no. I've yet to see someone get CANCER from only smoking weed... I do vap as well but the pipe is just easier. I dont drink(anymore) I dont smoke cigs. In 10,000 years we have been smoking weed not one person has died from it.
I just don't understand.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I believe this.
neoism
Member
U WOT M8........
But wouldn't edibles also completely do away with one of the main risks of smoking Marijuana, which is the effect on the esophagus and lungs? If you can get the same high, without having to inhale the smoke, isn't that better? Just curious.
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