I really hope that I'm never on a jury with GAF.
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You better hope you'd never be accused of something with GAF as the jury :b
I really hope that I'm never on a jury with GAF.
![]()
You better hope you'd never be accused of something with GAF as the jury :b
Do kill, on a regular basis. Anyone who's ever worked an ER knows that the damage punches can do is considerably more serious than most people think. The most common serious punch related injury is the shattering of the orbit of the eye, which sometimes results in loss of vision in the eye, and requires major reconstructive surgery. That doesn't even address the brain damage that can occur.It should absolutely be generally accepted that punches can kill. Because punches can kill.
This isn't particularly useful information without information regarding the amount of punches thrown for every one resulting in a serious injury.Do kill, on a regular basis. Anyone who's ever worked an ER knows that the damage punches can do is considerably more serious than most people think. The most common serious punch related injury is the shattering of the orbit of the eye, which sometimes results in loss of vision in the eye, and requires major reconstructive surgery. That doesn't even address the brain damage that can occur.
It should absolutely be generally accepted that punches can kill. Because punches can kill.
Do kill, on a regular basis. Anyone who's ever worked an ER knows that the damage punches can do is considerably more serious than most people think. The most common serious punch related injury is the shattering of the orbit of the eye, which sometimes results in loss of vision in the eye, and requires major reconstructive surgery. That doesn't even address the brain damage that can occur.
It should absolutely be generally accepted that punches can kill. Because punches can kill.
Yes in fact there are certain acts that are recognized as adequate provocation and those that aren't. Me walking in on you fucking my wife would be considered adequate provocation in every jurisdiction. You calling me an idiot would never be.
It was an accident and I don't think one's life should be completely ruined because of an accident. That isn't to say that the kid should get off and go free. This was manslaughter (or homicide by assault or whatever) and the kid should face the consequences, but some people in this thread are calling for life without parole and that is excessive.
So can having a jog through a park. That doesn't mean people stop jogging because they realize there is 0.0001% chance they will fall and die.
Punches or slaps that kill are rare, therefore it isn't fair to say "anyone who throws a punch intended to kill them... because it's possible". It's fucking dumb overreach for people who get a hard on at eye for an eye justice.
Justice is not just about rehabilitation. It is also about retribution.no one here thinks the kid can be rehabilitated? i don' think he meant to kill the dude by punching him.
Should anyone throwing a punch be charged with attempted murder?I think manslaughter is the minimum he should be charged for, but I wouldn't feel bad if he got charged for murder. There's a reason there's different degrees of murder charges.
Are you seriously comparing jogging to physically assaulting someone? Please tell me that you see the difference.
I'm comparing the chance of dying falling while jogging vs. dying when getting punched once.
I think manslaughter is the minimum he should be charged for, but I wouldn't feel bad if he got charged for murder. There's a reason there's different degrees of murder charges.
Sorry, Internet Perry Masons, i should have said you can get convicted of murder 2 for a punch.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_636cb831-f292-5238-b70d-5e523205ff1f.html
Second degree murder, penalty.
565.021. 1. A person commits the crime of murder in the second degree if he:
(1) with the purpose of causing serious physical injury to another person, causes the death of another person;
Involuntary manslaughter, penalty.
565.024. 1. A person commits the crime of involuntary manslaughter in the first degree if he or she:
(1) Recklessly causes the death of another person;
I'm comparing the chance of dying falling while jogging vs. dying when getting punched once. They're both incredibly small chances, but obviously "possible" you can die.
People are saying just because of that small possibility, now every punch should be seen as 'intended to kill'. Ridiculous.
I think manslaughter is the minimum he should be charged for, but I wouldn't feel bad if he got charged for murder. There's a reason there's different degrees of murder charges.
Before I go further and make the obvious point of kids everywhere throwing punches in school, tell me why you'd immediately equate punching to assault with a deadly weapon. Yes, it can kill people. Obviously. But not every thrown punch signifies an adult realizing they are ready to end a life and committed to achieve a scenario where someone is dead and nothing less.
Because I'm not even going to say that it's right below using a knife or baseball bat - Its significantly lower than throwing a chair. Yet, at the same time a thrown punch is ridiculously more abundant. For many reasons.
But fuck it. I want to hear it.
And its a ridiculous comparison.
Trolling or serious?I'm comparing the chance of dying falling while jogging vs. dying when getting punched once. They're both incredibly small chances, but obviously "possible" you can die.
That it happens a lot and the deaths occur so little.And what do idiot kids throwing punches in school have to do with anything?
You better hope you'd never be accused of something with GAF as the jury :b
If you punch someone without realizing you could kill them, you are an idiot. And if you end up killing someone with your punch, you deserve the appropriate punishment. I am sorry that life has consequences.
And what do idiot kids throwing punches in school have to do with anything?
You better hope you'd never be accused of something with GAF as the jury :b
Assuming a risk for oneself is different than assuming a risk for another.
Comparison fails.
So just like that you have every single school yard fight, drunken bar scrap, and wouldbe misdemeanor under the same category updated to assault with a deadly weapon + attempted murder because you personally feel that everyone should be as aware to something that as intrinsic as walking because you see no better option or feel no need to distinguish based on circumstances, situation, or intent.If you punch someone without realizing you could kill them, you are an idiot.
And its a ridiculous comparison.
And what is the appropriate punishment in your opinion? I don't know if you've actually said that in the thread?
I'm comparing the chance of dying falling while jogging vs. dying when getting punched once. They're both incredibly small chances, but obviously "possible" you can die.
People are saying just because of that small possibility, now every punch should be seen as 'intended to kill'. Ridiculous.
So just like that you have every single school yard fight, drunken bar scrap, and wouldbe misdemeanor under the same category updated to assault with a deadly weapon + attempted murder because you personally feel that everyone should be as aware to something that as intrinsic as walking because you see no better option or feel no need to distinguish based on circumstances, situation, or intent.
Let me know if I'm wrong.
If you punch someone without realizing you could kill them, you are an idiot.
I can honestly say that now I've seen everything.
When you get charged for a dui, are you being charged with attempted murder?
I'm sure there's a scenario someone can die by a poke to the forehead. The point we're making is there are different ranges and possibilities based on the force you use, how you use your hand etc.
It isn't as black and white as 'you punched him!? YOU MEANT TO MURDER HIM IN COLD BLOOD, THROW HIM IN A DUNGEON!'
Sooooo.... I misinterpreted your absolute hardline on the issue of punches in particular earlier?
I get that it changes if the person you're punching is young or old, but it's generally accepted people aged 20-50 can take a punch without expecting death no? And people who throw the punch feel this way too.
I don't understand why what I'm saying is considered so crazy.
I don't feel like searching the complete thread, but it would be swell if you could provide a round up of all the people that posted something to this effect. I would like to examine them.It isn't as black and white as 'you punched him!? YOU MEANT TO MURDER HIM IN COLD BLOOD, THROW HIM IN A DUNGEON!'
Crazy. Can't really argue how they ruled in that case. Since there was no provocation, Missouri only had 2 options to convict him on
or
I suppose if this happened in Missouri, it's possible the soccer player could be convicted of murder 2, which seems harsh considering that if they got in an argument and the referee pushed him first, he could have pulled out a gun and shot the referee and received the same or less charges.
http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5650000024.HTM
http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5650000021.HTM
You are still not making clear whether you believe that the precise degree of risk the degree of dangerousness - involved matters.What hardline do you think I made?
Punches can kill someone. When they do, especially if the punch was unprovoked, I believe that it should be punished appropriately, regardless of whether or not the puncher was dumb enough not to realize the punch could kill.
If you really think that I think punching someone is attempted murder then you have no interest in having an actual discussion here.
Hard to find stats on it, but that's like asking how many DUIs result in death compared to the number of DUIs occur. Both are potentially fatal, but fatal outcomes in both are outliers.So can having a jog through a park. That doesn't mean people stop jogging because they realize there is 0.0001% chance they will fall and die.
Punches or slaps that kill are rare, therefore it isn't fair to say "anyone who throws a punch intended to kill them... because it's possible". It's fucking dumb overreach for people who get a hard on at eye for an eye justice.
But how about the amount of punches thrown vs. who actually gets such damage? I'm not saying it isn't possible for serious damage to occur, but how many bar fights result in that, or other similar situations.
I wouldn't feel bad if he got charged with murder either. He probably will be. I'd feel bad if the jury was made up of people like you who would actually convict him of that murder.
Mushroom stamps...
You've already said you feel the full weight of the law should be put on someone for punching because 'they should have realized death was a risk'. That their actions 'have consequences' and yadayada.
Dude abides has said you can get a murder charge, so if someone poked someone in the cheek and they die somehow should they have the full weight of a murder charge thrown at them? Because they ignored the 0.00000001% chance they could have died from a poke? A punch is stronger than a poke but you're arguing anyone who doesn't adhere to this 'possible risk' is an idiot.
You are still not making clear whether you believe that the precise degree of risk the degree of dangerousness - involved matters.