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Which VR hardware will be the one to go with?

I'm pretty sure I've covered it with you myself, but let's go over it one last time, okay?

From the time Morpheus was announced, Shu was saying that they considered it a platform rather than an accessory, and as such, it would be sold at cost rather than at profit, with Sony profiting on the back end from software sales.
At no point in what you quoted did he say they would sell it at cost. What he said was it would be cheaper than their $1000 video-player headsets because it's a game device. And nowhere in the Bloomberg article did it say anything like your quote, it just said it would be priced similarly to new gaming platforms (and that's how the media read the statement - all over are statements like "While House was hesitant to offer a price range he did say, “The unit will be priced as a new gaming platform,” so don’t expect a cheap add-on to your console.") If you choose to read more into than what was said in the article, then fine, maybe you have the actual text of the Bloomberg interview?

I went and checked the original source — and thanks a lot for making me give Orland another click — and it sounds just as up-in-the-air as The Verge made it sound, frankly.

So yeah, he's clearly describing internal debate over the matter of pricing. Yes, Palmer is far more clear about them selling for cost, but he was making that claim on precisely the same day his boss was saying, "Sure, that'd be lovely, but I dunno…"
Brenden Iribe is not Palmer Luckey's boss - the other way around if anything. Luckey came up with the idea and convinced Iribe to join him and co-found the company. And Luckey was VERY firm on the "for cost" matter, I don't know why you would suggest he was lieing to the press. You're right, it was over a year ago, and at no point since then did they ever go back and suggest that they were wrong, that it might not be released at cost. The *only* thing they've said since then regarding price was that it will be over $350, because they are using more expensive materials and stuff for a more premium experience (which is actually something Luckey has been saying long before Facebook got involved, that while they were aiming at a $300-$350 price, it might be a bit higher if they thought that the changes would make it a much better VR device for a first consumer launch).
 

anothertech

Member
Maybe Valve is going to pull a Sony E3 2015, and announce Halflife3 release with the Vive as an exclusive VR experience. Maybe that's their 'breakthrough' lol
 

Quonny

Member
PSVR. I have a decent PC that I sometimes game on, but it's in my office (where I work) and not conducive to my wife playing it as well. PSVR will allow her to experience it and play with it when she wants. Pretty much the only reason.

The Vive is never going to work for me. I'm never going to dedicate an area to VR. It's way too disruptive.
 

Violater

Member
I think I will wait till I jump in on this one, though my gut feel is that Rift will have much more content than Morpheus.
 
The Vive is never going to work for me. I'm never going to dedicate an area to VR. It's way too disruptive.

I've seen a few people say something to this effect. The Vive's tech can do everything the Oculus Rift can, including seated experiences. HTC has mostly demoed the room-scale stuff because it can do that better than the Rift, not because that's the only VR experiences that are possible with it.
 

Quonny

Member
I've seen a few people say something to this effect. The Vive's tech can do everything the Oculus Rift can, including seated experiences. HTC has mostly demoed the room-scale stuff because it can do that better than the Rift, not because that's the only VR experiences that are possible with it.

I don't doubt that, but it will likely cost more, or has the cost redirected into another part that I won't use.

Just for that I don't see why I'd ever choose it over Rift. That's me, though. Other people can prioritize what they like, obviously.
 
I don't doubt that, but it will likely cost more, or has the cost redirected into another part that I won't use.

Just for that I don't see why I'd ever choose it over Rift. That's me, though. Other people can prioritize what they like, obviously.
Ah, totally. It does seem likely that it will be the more expensive option.
I don't see why not. They've used the products as much as everyone else

You think that, but they regularly perpetuate misinformation on the Bombcast. Just last week Mary was on speaking absolute nonsense about VR and nobody batted an eye. We had a discussion about it in the Giant Bomb thread and nobody could explain to me what Mary was trying to say.

They've tried the headsets, but don't understand anything about the hardware, technology, or issues related to them. Like I said, I love Giant Bomb, but they aren't well-informed on VR.
 
I would be surprised if any of these first-gen devices lasted long enough for the question to be all that meaningful.
Early VR is going to be iterated on the regular.

Yes. This is why I will be going with PSVR for the time being even though I have a VR-ready PC and have enjoyed my DK2. I think PSVR will hold me over for a couple years or so until the gap really widens between it and PC. Bring on something like 4k or foveated rendering, etc. and I will be all in with Oculus, I imagine.
 

Oppo

Member
I think it's far more important for people to quickly explore the possibilities of more and more advanced VR systems than to push for mainstream use.

The rapid iteration on VR concepts since the Oculus Kickstarter (supported by less than 10000 people mind you!) seems to have shown very well that mainstream participation is at best a secondary concern for advancement of the medium

Disagree with this. I think mainstream acceptance is critical right now. And PSVR has a good shot at getting that foot in the door and keeping it open so we get advancement (money/attention/component refinement) for all VR going forward.

Also, while you can't mess with PSVR directly without a dev kit, it's similar enough to the other headsets that you can have a degree of confidence that your VR project could port to PSVR from your Unreal or your Unity environment.
 
Isolating yourself in a VR headset... I just don't think a lot of folks are giving thought to how closed off that would make you in a situation where you have a family. Then again, maybe a lot of folks don't have one, so that's a non-consideration.

I'm really looking forward to playing PSVR with the kids: things like Monster Escape (or whatever the asymmetric multiplayer Playroom VR game is called) should be fine for them, three of us with controllers vs one with the headset. Something like Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes could be fun, too, but I can see that causing some arguments with the wife!

Sony seem to have gone to pains to make sure PSVR isn't an isolating experience. That said, its main use is going to be me playing Eve, Eclipse and whatever else once everyone else is tucked up in bed!
 

Skyrim

Banned
If it has a general purpose 360 video capability w/the PS4 web-browser then it will have porn.
It is confirmed that they are redoing the OS & dashboard to support VR.

Web-browser.

hey just make sure you don't puke while you get nauseated unless that's your thing
 

Lemonte

Member
Oculus or Vive. So much more content compared to PSVR. I'm probably too impatient and buy which ever releases consumer device first.
 
PSVR

Don't have a PC that's compatible and no real interest to invest in getting/building one. Like my ps4 and all the content it has so looking to see that expanded upon with PSVR.
 
At no point in what you quoted did he say they would sell it at cost. What he said was it would be cheaper than their $1000 video-player headsets because it's a game device.
Shu made it clear they planned to use the same pricing strategy as they do with consoles. This strategy was spelled out by the GameSpot author; selling the hardware at or below cost to maximize adoption and eventual software sales. More than a year later, Shu reiterated it explicitly himself, again to Gamespot.
Concerning pricing, Yoshida wouldn't give a specific figure for the consumer Morpheus model, but said it's Sony's goal to offer the device for as low a price point as possible.

"As low as possibly can be done," Yoshida said when asked if there was a target price in mind. "We are not talking about any specific number, but this is a console business. We try to provide the hardware at the lowest possible cost so that more people can come in. And so that developers can make games on to create the market. So we'll have the same approach."
They will have "the same approach" to PSVR hardware pricing as they do with console hardware pricing; sell it as cheaply as they can possibly afford, even if that puts it below the BOM, because they're gonna make it up later and then some.

And again, this is precisely what House then told Bloomberg; they will price PSVR just as they do their console hardware. They have been very consistent in their message, and not once did that message ever say, "Expect it to cost as much as a PS4," so again, please stop claiming that it did. The message has always been that PSVR margins would be similar to PS4 margins, and nothing more.

And nowhere in the Bloomberg article did it say anything like your quote, it just said it would be priced similarly to new gaming platforms (and that's how the media read the statement - all over are statements like "While House was hesitant to offer a price range he did say, “The unit will be priced as a new gaming platform,” so don’t expect a cheap add-on to your console.") If you choose to read more into than what was said in the article, then fine, maybe you have the actual text of the Bloomberg interview?
Again, not what it said. It said it would be priced as a new gaming platform. Here's the excerpt from the Bloomberg article, since it seems you can't be bothered to click through and read your own damned source.
The PlayStation VR headset is on track for introduction in the first half of next year, Sony Computer Entertainment Chief Executive Officer Andrew House said in an interview at the Tokyo Game Show on Thursday. The unit will be priced as a new gaming platform he said, without giving numbers.
See? It's not even a quote from House, FFS. The reporters just tells us what House told them; they're gonna price it just as they do all of their new gaming platforms. Since we're clever guys — and again, Shu spelled it out to GameSpot, just in case — we know that pricing it as they do a new gaming platform means selling it at cost. Maybe even below, if they think it'll generate a bunch of software revenues quickly enough.

At no time did Sony ever say its costs would be similar to any other device, as you repeatedly claim. They said it will cost what it costs, and that's how much they're gonna sell it for, which is precisely what they've been saying since they started talking about the thing publicly.

Brenden Iribe is not Palmer Luckey's boss - the other way around if anything. Luckey came up with the idea and convinced Iribe to join him and co-found the company. And Luckey was VERY firm on the "for cost" matter, I don't know why you would suggest he was lieing to the press. You're right, it was over a year ago, and at no point since then did they ever go back and suggest that they were wrong, that it might not be released at cost. The *only* thing they've said since then regarding price was that it will be over $350, because they are using more expensive materials and stuff for a more premium experience (which is actually something Luckey has been saying long before Facebook got involved, that while they were aiming at a $300-$350 price, it might be a bit higher if they thought that the changes would make it a much better VR device for a first consumer launch).
Well, Iribe is the CEO of Oculus. Sounds like a boss to me. I'm not really sure who would outrank him here. My guess would've been Zuckerberg, since he owns the whole kit and caboodle now, but Iribe was talking like Mark only got to give input, but the final decision was his, and he wasn't entirely convinced Mark's input was sound. I know Palmer is labeled as the Founder, but I'm not really sure how much authority that actually carries. It sorta sounds like what you call a guy after he's mostly retired, you know, out of respect and all.

Anyway, I take it you've got nothing more recent and clear that they've said about margins? Just that one day of mixed messages?
 

bryanee

Member
PSVR is the only one I'm getting.

If I had a gaming PC capable of doing VR then I'd get one of the PC options as well. Not sure which.
 

MMaRsu

Banned
PSVR :)

I have a ps4 and Im interested to see what Sony first party and others can come up with :).

If I build a gaming pc Ill get Oculus as well
 
I'm wary of wading into the pricing discussion, but if Sony launch PSVR at the same price point as PS4 I would expect it to sink without a trace.

I don't know the BOM for the headset and breakout box, but can make a fairly safe guess that it's less than a PS4. I don't foresee Sony losing market share in order to try to make short-term profits.

My guess, for what it may or may not be worth, is £250 for the basics, £300 for a camera/Move bundle.
 

TheBear

Member
I guess PSVR. It's the only one that so far has games that interest me. Also, my PC is probably a bit underpowered (i5/780) so the investment will be much higher to jump in. But really from where I'm looking if I had a capable PC id probably go with PSVR anyway. It's all about the games
 

Caayn

Member
Are muti-GPUs still not recommended?
Multi-GPU set-ups benefit greatly from using VR as the output device. But for non-VR games using DX11 or lower I can't recommended. DX12 is promising major leaps forward with multi-GPU. (And Vulkan as well, if I'm correct)

I just sold my second 980ti because of the lackluster SLI support.

LiquidVR7_575px.jpg


Anandtech said:
The beauty of stereoscopic rendering as far as multi-GPU is concerned is that because each view is rendering the same scene, there’s little-to-no interdependency between what each view is doing; one view doesn’t affect the other. This means that assigning a GPU to each view is a relatively straightforward operation. And if rendering techniques like temporal reprojection are in use, those again are per-view, so each GPU can reference its past frame in a single-GPU like manner.

At the same time because VR requires rerendering large parts of a frame twice, coupled with the need for low latency it has very high performance requirements, especially if you want to make the jump to VR without significantly compromising on image quality. The recommended system requirements for the Oculus Rift are a Radeon R9 290, a GeForce GTX 970, or equivalent. And if users want better performance or developers want better looking games, then a still more powerful setup is required.

This, in a nutshell, is why VR is the next great use case for multi-GPU setups. There is a significant performance need, and VR rendering is much friendlier to multi-GPU setups. RTG and NVIDIA are in turn both well aware of this, which is why both of them have multi-GPU technologies in their SDKs, Affinity Multi-GPU and VR SLI respectively.
Source
 

viveks86

Member
I'll get a Rift because it's first to market. Then a Vive because I have the perfect setup for roomscale VR. Then PSVR whenever Driveclub VR comes out. My wallet... :'(
 

Yarbskoo

Member
Ugh, If you mean what I'm thinking about...

Source Filmmaker is the best thing Valve's released since the last thing Valve released. Doesn't really work with VR though, as far as I know.

I don't want to link it here, but do a google for VEIVIEW

Isn't that just 3D scans of real people that don't even animate? Feels weird man.

Still impressive though, especially if it reacts to lighting.
 
Isn't that just 3D scans of real people that don't even animate? Feels weird man.

Still impressive though, especially if it reacts to lighting.

They're fully fleshed out 3d models, pun intended. I haven't seen any animations, but the models react to physics, like if you shake the model they jiggle :p
 
Ah, totally. It does seem likely that it will be the more expensive option.


You think that, but they regularly perpetuate misinformation on the Bombcast. Just last week Mary was on speaking absolute nonsense about VR and nobody batted an eye. We had a discussion about it in the Giant Bomb thread and nobody could explain to me what Mary was trying to say.

They've tried the headsets, but don't understand anything about the hardware, technology, or issues related to them. Like I said, I love Giant Bomb, but they aren't well-informed on VR.

I listened to that one yesterday. Mind telling me what the problem was?
 

Raonak

Banned
PSVR seems the most easiest for me. It looks the best, has a pretty solid lineup of games, and requires the least amount of hoops to jump through.

Will probably get a oculus sometime later if PSVR never gets some sort of VR porn (or pc support)
 
I listened to that one yesterday. Mind telling me what the problem was?

Well I don't need to rehash the whole discussion, but she initially said this regarding an underwater VR demo she played on the Rift:

It solves some of the problems with VR which is you want to look down, you want to look behind you, well you're in a suit so you can only see where the glass lets you, which is a nice reasonable way to limit why the oculus is the way it is."

Everyone responds to that with "Oh huh, cool" while I'm thinking what idea is she trying to convey? Couple second later she follows it up with:

It will give you suit visuals, but you can't see the game, so it's stopping you from getting more than 180 degrees, which is nice.

To which everyone has a similar "Totally, yeah" reaction. I felt like I was taking crazy pills because I'm still not able to figure out what she is trying to say and why it's a "good" thing.

This diatribe is blowing my reaction out of proportion, but it's just the one example of the generally confused way Giant Bomb discusses VR stuff. I haven't finished this week's episode though, so I can't speak to what they say, but it was always a stark contrast to listen to the Bombcast and Tested podcast back-to-back and hear just how informed and in-depth the VR conversations are on Tested.
 
Well I don't need to rehash the whole discussion, but she initially said this regarding an underwater VR demo she played on the Rift:



Everyone responds to that with "Oh huh, cool" while I'm thinking what idea is she trying to convey? Couple second later she follows it up with:



To which everyone has a similar "Totally, yeah" reaction. I felt like I was taking crazy pills because I'm still not able to figure out what she is trying to say and why it's a "good" thing.

This diatribe is blowing my reaction out of proportion, but it's just the one example of the generally confused way Giant Bomb discusses VR stuff. I haven't finished this week's episode though, so I can't speak to what they say, but it was always a stark contrast to listen to the Bombcast and Tested podcast back-to-back and hear just how informed and in-depth the VR conversations are on Tested.
Going solely by your description …

It sounds like her movement was constrained by some real-world limitation. Seated experience, perhaps? Regardless, she wasn't able turn around for some reason.

So it sounds like in the demo she was wearing and old fashioned diving helmet, which remained stationary while she looked around inside it. Once she turned her head far enough that she was looking past the edge of the helmet's window, she stopped trying to turn further, since there was nothing to see anyway, apart from the inside of the helmet.

So she was commending the devs for designing the experience in such a way that she naturally limited her own motion long before she approached the presence-breaking limits of the technology. It's a credit to the devs that that can offer a limited experience without letting you become aware of said limits.
 
Well I don't need to rehash the whole discussion, but she initially said this regarding an underwater VR demo she played on the Rift:



Everyone responds to that with "Oh huh, cool" while I'm thinking what idea is she trying to convey? Couple second later she follows it up with:



To which everyone has a similar "Totally, yeah" reaction. I felt like I was taking crazy pills because I'm still not able to figure out what she is trying to say and why it's a "good" thing.

This diatribe is blowing my reaction out of proportion, but it's just the one example of the generally confused way Giant Bomb discusses VR stuff. I haven't finished this week's episode though, so I can't speak to what they say, but it was always a stark contrast to listen to the Bombcast and Tested podcast back-to-back and hear just how informed and in-depth the VR conversations are on Tested.

Oh, it just seemed to me she was talking about how a specific game/demo behaved.
 
It's a credit to the devs that that can offer a limited experience without letting you become aware of said limits.
But what limits are you (and she) talking about?? Arbitrarily limiting your field of view and disallowing the player to turn around are in direct opposition to the benefit of VR.
Oh, it just seemed to me she was talking about how a specific game/demo behaved.
It stills makes no sense.
 
I'm concerned that PSVR will get a bunch of games at launch followed by long dry spells, depending on how well it does. Kinect was hugely successful on the 360, and the same thing happened with the software. I just have a hard time believing the support will continue (and grow) past the initial launch period.
 
But what limits are you (and she) talking about?? Arbitrarily limiting your field of view and disallowing the player to turn around are in direct opposition to the benefit of VR.
Well, like I said, don't even know what she was playing, but it sounds like for some reason she couldn't turn 360°, so she thought it was cool that the dev designed the experience in such a way that she wasn't inclined to do so anyway.

Also, spinning 360° isn't really the primary purpose of VR. The primary purpose is making you feel like you're present in the virtual environment.
 
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