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Why do people keep saying that "Wii won last gen?"
- Thread starter Comandr
- Start date
True, but that machine had a vastly larger amount of great games, diverse genres of games at that, because they unlike ninty had 3rd party support.
Ninty may have sold the most machines last gen, for now, but it was one of the closest gens we had in a while. Before that it was (Seahawks vs Broncos) the PS1, and (Niners vs Chargers) PS2 blow outs. And ninty have collapsed harder than Sony did transitioning from their crown thus far easily.
Hyperactivity
Banned
As it is for any console in any generation. This applies to ps3 and 360 as well
The Red Wizard
Member
There's something funny about changing the goal posts when someone has rebutted your point with a football/soccer game.
akidnamededdy
Banned
If you're the type to take game review scores and rankings seriously, the Wii was home to the two highest rated games released last gen...soooo there's that.
It's all a matter of personal opinion anyway, though. In the end, the only real concrete metric we can use to judge who "won" a gen is number of hardware units moved (same as we've all always done), so there you go.
Best selling games on Wii:
Wii Sports 82 million (bundled from the start)
Mario Kart 35.26 million
Wii Sports Resort 31.89 million
Wii Play 28.02 million
New Super Mario Bros 27.88 million
Wii Fit 22.67 million
Wii Fit Plus 20.86 million
Super Mario Galaxy 11.72 million
Smash Bros 11.49 million
Wii Party 7.94 million
Best selling games on PS3:
GTA V (14 million)
Gran Turismo 5 (10.66 million)
Gran Turismo 5 Prologue (5.35 million)
God of War III (5,197,632)
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 (4.8 million approximately)
Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception (3.8 million)
Uncharted 2: Among Thieves (3.8 million)
The Last of Us (3.4 million)
Best selling games on 360:
Kinect Adventures 24 million (bundled w/ kinect)
GTA V 15 million
Halo 3 14.5 million
Black Ops 12 million
Minecraft 10 million
Modern Warfare 2 7.5 million
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games
may not be that accurate, no idea how well researched those numbers are
When you remove the bundled ones, then the best selling games on Wii sold twice as much as the best selling games on PS3/360. I guess GTA V would beat the best selling ones on Wii by now, but only when you combine 360+PS3.
JinjoUnchained
Member
People say it won last gen because it won last gen. The same way that "you're going to have a lot of time to live in a van down by the river when you're living in a van down by the river".
Some people can't accept basic logic because they have a narrow view of what gaming should be and the Wii doesn't fit into that view. Last gen, Nintendo applied their handheld strategy of withered technology with lateral thinking into their home console. That pisses off many people off who feel that a new console needs to be "next gen" and progressive, not lateral. Progressive refers not just to the specs of the console, but also the community of third parties competing with each other to master that tech over time.
The Wii was a slap in the face to that paradigm and dominated and defined the generation, but some people can't accept that their paradigm was challenged and defeated so they try to move the goal posts. It's cognitive dissonance, when reality doesn't match up to our biases and preferences, we tend to twist logic to protect our emotions. So they'll say that the Wii had the most sales, but it's not a REAL winner because it didn't play the progressive tech game. Or the system was only supported for 4 years so it's not a REAL winner (which was due to the faster than expected adoption of HD TVs, not Nintendo themselves). Or the system had too much shovelware so it's not a REAL winner (also true of NES/SNES/PS1/PS2, plus any gamer with 3rd grade reading comprehension skills can do some basic research to find out which games are shovelware and which are legitimate).
Point is, it sold the most. Along with XBox Live, XBLA, and the mobile scene, Wii motion controls defined the previous generation compared with what came before. So generation-defining technology, excellent exclusive library, and the most overall sales = generation winner. You can try to invent some arbitrary alternate metric to protect your fragile emotions if you need to, but that doesn't make you right.
Some people can't accept basic logic because they have a narrow view of what gaming should be and the Wii doesn't fit into that view. Last gen, Nintendo applied their handheld strategy of withered technology with lateral thinking into their home console. That pisses off many people off who feel that a new console needs to be "next gen" and progressive, not lateral. Progressive refers not just to the specs of the console, but also the community of third parties competing with each other to master that tech over time.
The Wii was a slap in the face to that paradigm and dominated and defined the generation, but some people can't accept that their paradigm was challenged and defeated so they try to move the goal posts. It's cognitive dissonance, when reality doesn't match up to our biases and preferences, we tend to twist logic to protect our emotions. So they'll say that the Wii had the most sales, but it's not a REAL winner because it didn't play the progressive tech game. Or the system was only supported for 4 years so it's not a REAL winner (which was due to the faster than expected adoption of HD TVs, not Nintendo themselves). Or the system had too much shovelware so it's not a REAL winner (also true of NES/SNES/PS1/PS2, plus any gamer with 3rd grade reading comprehension skills can do some basic research to find out which games are shovelware and which are legitimate).
Point is, it sold the most. Along with XBox Live, XBLA, and the mobile scene, Wii motion controls defined the previous generation compared with what came before. So generation-defining technology, excellent exclusive library, and the most overall sales = generation winner. You can try to invent some arbitrary alternate metric to protect your fragile emotions if you need to, but that doesn't make you right.
The Red Wizard
Member
That's a very narrow view. Several million people care about handhelds. There is a need for emphasis on the word console because that's what the Wii, 360 and PS3 are consoles while the DS is a handheld. This makes it impossible for the DS to win the console generation but I'm confident many would praise it as the winner of the handheld generation.
WrenchNinja
Member
If the DS isn't being talked about as the winner of last gen over the Wii, why the fuck would the 3DS be talked about as the winner over whoever it is in consoles this gen (likely the PS4)?
Neff
Member
Well *I* know that, but this thread has its number of voices keen to assert that install bases (including those in the future) attained via crippling losses are a more relevant indicator of success and victory than actual money made.
I'm just keen to learn where this silly idea started, if it's supposed to be an established thing.
does anyone remember that chart where it showed that nintendo made more profit (for like 2 years or so) than the whole video game industry combined (excluding nintendo) made losses ?
Well if you're the type to take game review scores and rankings seriously you can see here there are way more PS3 games with very high score than the wii(the PS3 first page ends with a 89 score, the wii one with a 80 score, 9 scores of difference is not small)
http://www.gamerankings.com/browse.html?site=ps3&cat=0&year=0&numrev=0&sort=0&letter=&search=
http://www.gamerankings.com/browse.html?site=wii&cat=0&year=0&numrev=0&sort=0&letter=&search=
to me lots of very good games >>>>>>>>>> few very good games(and Mario Galaxy games have just some decimals more than PS3 GTA games)
So people weren't satisfied with PS2, SNES and PSP?
EDIT: Guy below is right. I loved my Wii yet I don't own a WiiU, because they're different systems.
Why can't I have been satisfied with the Wii, but have opted not to buy its successor right this moment?
Always amuses me when I see the Wii sales figures, the reality is so far from my personal experience. I knew a few people who got one, and even less who ever used it. On the other hand I know countless people who had 360/PS3 or both. Then you look at the actual figures and ..
It never had a single title I cared about.
It never had a single title I cared about.
Which says more about you as a gamer than the system itself AFAIC.
It has about 15 games that I would consider essential to someone who enjoys a variety of games, including what I would argue is the best 3D platformer of all time.
Riposte
Member
Once someone outs themselves to be a soldier in the console war, it is very hard to read anything they say without wondering if there is some hidden anti-rival/pro-home console sentiment hidden within. That is until I forget everything about them over time (or when they change their avatar), which I do routinely for all but a portion of GAF.
timetokill
Banned
Totally hilarious that people are still so bitter about the Wii and it's massive success. I guess it goes so hard against the desired narrative that people will try and spin it any way they can.
Good post. And while many people are happy as clams to be isolated from "casuals" it eventually will lead to a declining, more risk-averse market. If kids are growing up playing mobile and their expectations for how games are and how much they cost changes, culturally, then we are looking at consoles being the sideshow rather soon.
Good post. And while many people are happy as clams to be isolated from "casuals" it eventually will lead to a declining, more risk-averse market. If kids are growing up playing mobile and their expectations for how games are and how much they cost changes, culturally, then we are looking at consoles being the sideshow rather soon.
Man, a lot of people must really hate the PS2.
moltonasty
Member
OP what are you talking about? Wii had the highest hardware sales, and software sales. There are also a lot of great exclusive games for the console, despite what many people think. Just because some of those particular exclusives did not sell well does not disqualify them.
Wii won, fair and square. I don't really see how this is up for debate?
Wii won, fair and square. I don't really see how this is up for debate?
The Albatross
Member
Looking at Nintendo's position in 2013, 2014, and saying that "The Wii won," is absurd. What Nintendo made in sales by 2010, they lost in just about every other quantifiable category by 2014.
It's like saying that RIM won against Apple and Google because BlackBerry was so incredibly successful from 2006 - 2009.
I think it's the opposite. So many non-traditional gamers were so satisfied with their product, they felt no need to buy anything other than the Console + Wii Sports, and then maybe one or two other games. Even if they knew that the Wii U existed, they're satisfied enough to play Wii bowling once a year.
It's like saying that RIM won against Apple and Google because BlackBerry was so incredibly successful from 2006 - 2009.
I think it's the opposite. So many non-traditional gamers were so satisfied with their product, they felt no need to buy anything other than the Console + Wii Sports, and then maybe one or two other games. Even if they knew that the Wii U existed, they're satisfied enough to play Wii bowling once a year.
Portugeezer
Gold Member
It doesn't bother me whether it's subjective or not, it's not a big deal to me as I don't intend to hate on the Wii.
But I'm not using shovelware as a metric; I had a lot of great games for my Wii (some niche). They just weren't as great as other games on my 360 last gen, lack of HD became a problem as the generation went on, and the online was shit, and so the Wii got played less.
What does the Wii U have to do with the outcome of the last console generation? Fact = last generation Wii sold the most consoles & made the most profit = therefore won.
Barry Burton
Member
I'm going to assume you meant PS3 there (?), but anyways, being the "loser" (in comparison to the more successful consoles) and being a failure are mutually exclusive terms. It's hard to label the PS3 as being a success outside of a vacuum, but at ~80 million units sold its far from a failure either. Sony can't be happy about how much market share they lost, but I think that 80 million total is a lot better than I think anyone would have predicted 5, 6 years ago (geez, this generation went on for far too long...)
That Nintendo failed to capitalize on the Wii's success does not change how incredibly successful it was.
Consoles don't even have a lock on core gamers any more. The PS2 benefited greatly from the "death" of PC gaming. With Steam's continued rise, and the impending age of VR, consoles could start feeling the squeeze from their core consumers as well.
That's a pretty bad analogy since you're not comparing one successful BlackBerry product to less successful Apple or Google products, specifically. Wii won against PS3 and 360 - Nintendo as a whole may not be doing so hot these days as a result of WiiU, a different system, performing poorly. In the end, PS3 was a money sink even if it sold well, does that count at all?
So the PS2 didnt win either. Whatever they made with the PS2, they completely lost with the PS3.
The Albatross
Member
Not quite. Sony didn't really begin to lose their market share until the PS3 and XBox 360 were both out. That PS3 launch was disastrous.
Nintendo had already started to lose their market share some 2 or 3 years before the Wii U came out, two or three years before the XBox 1 and PS4 came out. The Wii U certainly fomented Nintendo's decline in the console space, but it wasn't the source of it.
No analogy is perfect, that's the point of analogies, to make a comparison that is analogous but not identical.
It would be great if this happened for RIM and Nintendo:
But it didn't.
I suppose if somebody (you?) argued, "Wii Won, and Nintendo lost," I would agree with that argument. It's a bit of a pyrrhic victory. Have to wonder what good your console "winning" is if your company is pretty much irrelevant at the end of that victory.
While you're not wrong, looking at what both consoles offer, I think the Wii has a dramatically higher amount of shovelware next to PS2.See also:
The Wii still has more software sales and hardware sales over either other console to this day, even with the Wii being discontinued.
That says more about the ps3 and 360 then the Wii.
Also keep moving dem goalposts
Also the PS3 lost Sony Billions, a massive far cry from the Wii. Or even the WiiU.
The Albatross
Member
What goal posts? The only people placing goal posts are those who pretended that the generation ended in 2010, or when the Wii U came out, or something. "At this arbitrary time in Nintendo's choosing, we declare that this generation has come to an end, ignoring the historic collapse in hardware & software sales, and the years of bad press and bad financials." It's like declaring that the American Civil War ended in 1862 or World War II ended in 1943. Whatever happened after 1943 is just moving goal posts.
Basically this. Same with award shows. "X award show didn't reflect my opinion, and is thus meaningless." It's a really disingenuous argument when it counts "all the other times"
Not only did the Wii dominate in sales, but it made Sony and Microsoft adopt a gimmicky motion control system as well.
"If you can't beat em, join em." I'd call that winning.
Metallix87
Member
The war is over. The hardware sales are so minuscule now that it's pointless to hold on to the notion of either system outselling the Wii.
Crimsonsky
Member
You seem to think I have a problem declaring the Wii the victor. I don't have a problem with saying the Wii won. It did, that is not disputable. I only put won in quotes to emphasis it, and because I agree that declaring a victor is meaningless to us, the gamer.
There was a large quantity of time that the wii was outselling the 360 and ps3 combined. In fact, the last sentence of my post states the Wii won pretty clearly. Not sure how much more clear I can make it. That being said, if I were to base the win off a metric it would be total amount of money earned, from software and hardware. But I don't think anyone, but say people like Pachter and the NPD, would have data like that.
So for us, the "laymen" so to speak, the Wii won. Quite handily I might add, no one harshes on the undefeated football team that gets a bye week in the playoffs. The Wii is similar to that, it clinched it's victory early.
Sorry, not playing that game. Just not interested in any software I saw whether a great many people disagreed with me or not. I've been gaming a long time, i've had my fill of Nintendo more or less, and especially their core IP. Bayonetta 2 may get me to buy a Wii-U if it reviews well (by people who liked the original).
All the talk about when the generation end is worthless, the PS3 and 360 are still millions behind the Wii in sales to this day.
Your talk of 'bad years' have no bearing on total sales.
Picking years and any talk of the WiiU when talking about Wii sales is the definition of moving goalposts in sale threads.
The Albatross
Member
So you favor the "The Wii won, Nintendo lost," idea? I'm fine with that idea. Hardware and software approaches record numbers for a 3 - 4 years, company is completely irrelevant 2 or 3 years later in the industry that they defined for some 30 years.
That's true. Thankfully, this isn't a sales thread, it's a "who won" thread. I suppose if sales = win? Maybe. In a war analogy it's like if total enemy casualties = winning. Suppose the US Won Vietnam, Korea, et al, if that's the case.
prag16
Banned
Because it doesn't fit the intended narrative of this topic.
Metallix87
Member
How did Nintendo lose, exactly? They made several key mistakes with the Wii U, that have resulted in it struggling, but I wouldn't say they've "lost", unless you're merely referring to this current generation, in which case that looks to likely be what happens.
Actually it is, because the only metric that was ever used in the past the declare the winner was sales, so this is a sales thread.
That metric doesn't go away because people are upset Nintendo outsold everyone.
Mango The Magician
Banned
I literally can't believe this thread is still going. *sigh* all I wanted today was the confirmation of a Direct for tomorrow, yet we have people all up in this thread being delusional and coming up with false metrics to try to (hopelessly I might add) prove that a piece of plastic they don't like, didn't outsell a piece of plastic they do like. smh
The Albatross
Member
I'm definitely not upset about Nintendo outselling in consoles. As a fan of Nintendo games and Nintendo consoles, I am upset that Nintendo is in the worst position the company has ever been in, like 3 or 4 years after supposedly "winning." Quite a victory.
Although, for the sake of argument, I think that "winning" a generation is a lot more than sales alone. For instance, I don't consider the PS2 the "winner" of that generation only because of sales, but also because Sony established themselves as the dominant name in game consoles with that generation. The mindshare they garnered from that generation was incredible.
So.. ah.. What do you think is objective of game console manufacturers?
Dude, I'm one of 'em. From the Gameboy forward I've been all about the handhelds. I'm just saying those horses run in a separate race.
Mr_Antimatter
Member
Sony was great in the ps2 era, but it was all made possible by what they built in the Ps1 generation. They knew what worked, in terms of games and such, and did more of it.
Nintendo's issue was they caught lightning in a bottle, sold like mad, then forgot to follow that up and retain their audience. Instead, they lost their way, audience left for greener pastures, and they are back to where they started pre-wii.
However, in terms of the wii/ps3/360 generation? They won by pretty much every objective that mattered. Highest sales, many of the highest rated games, and many of the best selling games.