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[dr_rus]

It's really the same, because optical drives are already permanently adjusting focus to compensate the disc's surface irregularities.
We're talking about moving the lens by less than 20 μm, here.

Compensation of surface irregularities has nothing to do with focusing positions a hardware can provide. These are different things.

Read this: BDXL brings the expanded layer capacity by increasing the linear track density (which by itself doesn't need any hardware change) and using an algorithm called i-MLSE.

So let's just assume that BDXL and UHD BD are the same - although they're not but whatever. Do all BD drives read BDXL discs? How about that PS3 drive? It certainly can read those BDXLs, which "doesn't need any hardware change", right? And what about other Blu-ray players? They just read these new disks with ease I take it? -)
And another question for you: do current PS4 models read BDXL discs? 8)

 

[EvB]

Yeah, there are actually. And I want developers to have the choice to make simpler, stylish games at 2160p.



Don't be that guy.

But but upscaling is the devil!

go Native or go home!

 

[HTupolev]

Not enough processing power to run good looking 4K games?

The original Xbox and PS2 supported 1080i output.

Chances are they figured that devs wouldn't use it much, and didn't want to bother dealing with the oddities that 4K30 would have for how the system handles gameplay frame output (i.e. screenshot and video recording).

 

[Shin-Ra]

But but upscaling is the devil!

go Native or go home!

I have no idea what you're on.

 

[SprachBrooks]

I should've said employee**** at best buy.

Point still stands lol.

 

[inpHilltr8r]

if 3D is possible through an update why isn't 4K?

Differences in the physical disc specs. A normal 2 layer BD has a capacity of 50GB. A 4K / UHD 2 layer BD is 66GB, plus there's a 3 layer disc at 100GB. Something changes physically there. Unless Sony and or MS were supremely prescient, and benevolent, the drive optics are probably going to need a new revision. No-one's who actually knows anything appears to be talking about it right now, so we're all speculating with wildly varying amounts of actual knowledge.

3D was delivered on the existing BD physical spec, and just needed a firmware update.

 

[fastest finger]

A little while ago, @AskPlayStation on Twitter claimed that PS4 will be capable of running Ultra HD Blu-ray Discs.

https://twitter.com/askplaystation/s...34758080114689

Seems like a bold claim with no official announcement from Sony, but.....

As I understand it Ultra HD Blu-ray uses the same optics as the current standard, the additional data capacity comes from improved codecs, so could UHDBRDs be read by the PS4's disc drive?

Ultra HD Blu-ray requires HDMI 2.0, and PS4 allegedly contains a custom Panasonic programmable HDMI chip - might it be upgraded via firmware?

PS4's hardware should have more than enough grunt to decide a UHD video stream. (Sony have already talked about unspecified 4K compatibility)

None of the above confirms compatibility, but I'm not discounting any eventuality until i hear the official line from Sony.

 

[le-seb]

Compensation of surface irregularities has nothing to do with focusing positions a hardware can provide. These are different things.

I simply can't imagine that modern optical drives are mechanically limited at this point.
Not when most BD drives today support BDXL and its four layers.

So let's just assume that BDXL and UHD BD are the same - although they're not but whatever. Do all BD drives read BDXL discs? How about that PS3 drive? It certainly can read those BDXLs, which "doesn't need any hardware change", right? And what about other Blu-ray players? They just read these new disks with ease I take it? -)

Use of i-MLSE requires additional processing resources that the drive controllers didn't have at the time.
And some BD players do support BDXL.

And another question for you: do current PS4 models read BDXL discs? 8)

You have a point. Although not supporting a format (that's mainly used for archival purpose) doesn't necessarily mean the hardware cannot support it.

 

[bidguy]

you wont be able to use uhd blu rays but you can rip them as hevc and play it on the media player once sony adds the support for it

i believe xbox one already supports h265

 

[EvB]

I have no idea what you're on.

Well I realise now that 2160p must be part of the "4k" resolution.

however, I'm not wanting to have to play all my other sub 4k content upscaled, both through processing lag and image processing/upscaling, which I would be very surprised if was commonly simply bicubic nearest neigbour.

 

[dcx4610]

4k Blu-Ray will require a new drive. PS4 can output photos in 4k and in theory could do digital movies in 4k but remains to be seen if it works.

I fully expect a PS4k with upgraded Blu-Ray drive by holiday 2016.

 

[dcx4610]

4K/8K will be just like 3D niche as fuck

Don't expect to see enough content worth purchasing hardware.

I never understood this logic. Do you still game at 320x240? What about 640x480?

Resolution is not niche and shouldn't be compared to 3D. Just like everyone has 1080p TVS these days, we'll soon have 4k and eventually 8k. Higher resolution is always better and content will come in time just like 1080p.

 

[androvsky]

And another question for you: do current PS4 models read BDXL discs? 8)

They don't read CDs either, though it's pretty clear they can. CD playback capability is actually mentioned in the manual that comes with the system, even though the online specs sheet doesn't say anything about CD capabilities.

 

[Circinus]

It already does!!!111!

MASTERED IN 4K

That's downsampled from 4K resolution, yeah.

 

[family_guy]

They could stop making 1080p tv's today it doesn't change the fact No one is producing 4K content.

I was talking about 4K tvs being niche. If you're in the market for a new tv in the next few years, most likely you'll pick up a 4k one due to lack of alternatives. Think of how 1080p became the standard. At one point it would have been thought to be niche.

 

[ZOONAMI]

That's downsampled from 4K resolution, yeah.

Yeah people don't seem to understand that as long as people keep using film, we will see remasters at the resolution of the times because film resolution is like 1000 megapixels. 4K is only 8-12 megapixels.

A lot of stuff is digitally masted at 4k from film, and then downsampled to 1080p. There will definitley not be a content problem.

Digital 4k cameras are already widespread, so even if people stop using film, there will be 4k content.

 

[Madness]

It's an entirely new disc and standard that won't be able to be played with any current players, so no, not unless Sony releases a new PS4 with the 4K standard in mind.

Unlike BD2.0 and other profiles that could be utilized with software, this is a hardware change along with new discs. They're just keeping the Blu-ray name for familiarity, otherwise this is a new standard and 66-100gb disc.

 

[androvsky]

Yeah people don't seem to understand that as long as people keep using film, we will see remasters at the resolution of the times because film resolution is like 1000 megapixels. 4K is only 8-12 megapixels.

Holographic film, perhaps. If film in general was around 1000 megapixels you could do a blu-ray transfer of something shot on 8mm and it would look as good as anything shot on a 4K Red camera.

It's an entirely new disc and standard that won't be able to be played with any current players, so no, not unless Sony releases a new PS4 with the 4K standard in mind.

Unlike BD2.0 and other profiles that could be utilized with software, this is a hardware change along with new discs. They're just keeping the Blu-ray name for familiarity, otherwise this is a new standard and 66-100gb disc.

New discs that just happen to have the same capacity as a recordable Blu-ray format that's been around for five years. It's actually not that unlikely that the PS4 can read them. I still wouldn't expect it, but it's not a given either way.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Unless Sony planned it when making PS4, it's unlikely the current PS4 will, because if it was as easy as a firmware upgrade, they would just update current blu-ray players instead of making 4k blu-ray players.

Later models of PS4 might support 4k blu-ray but streaming 4k is something that all models of PS4 should be able to do though, Netflix 4k maybe.

 

[dr_rus]

They don't read CDs either, though it's pretty clear they can. CD playback capability is actually mentioned in the manual that comes with the system, even though the online specs sheet doesn't say anything about CD capabilities.

Clear from what exactly? Reading CDs requires a third laser in addition to DVD and BD. Since PS4 is all about costs cutting it is very likely that it's drive doesn't have that laser for CD at all. I think that there's actually a bigger chance that it can read UHD BD than CD as the former doesn't require a separate reading laser head.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Holographic film, perhaps. If film in general was around 1000 megapixels you could do a blu-ray transfer of something shot on 8mm and it would look as good as anything shot on a 4K Red camera.


New discs that just happen to have the same capacity as a recordable Blu-ray format that's been around for five years. It's actually not that unlikely that the PS4 can read them. I still wouldn't expect it, but it's not a given either way.

Large format is 800+ megapixels. I believe 35mm is around 200 megapixels. People do 8mm 4k digital conversion, and yes it does look good. Not as good as native digital 4k of course, but that's more about the optics of a 20+ year old camera vs a brand new one.

 

[androvsky]

Large format is 800+ megapixels. I believe 35mm is around 200 megapixels. People do 8mm 4k digital conversion, and yes it does look good. Not as good as native digital 4k of course, but that's more about the optics of a 20+ year old camera vs a brand new one.

Are you talking about still photography? The best still photography color film (by a pretty wide margin apparently) is around 87 MP, taking into account the Bayer filter on a digital camera it gets close to 200 MP, but the Bayer filter doesn't apply to the output.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/film-resolution.htm

So how many pixels does it take to describe all the detail we can get from film?
Fuji Velvia 50 is rated to resolve 160 lines per millimeter. This is the finest level of detail it can resolve, at which point its MTF just about hits zero.
Each line will require one light and one dark pixel, or two pixels. Thus it will take about 320 pixels per millimeter to represent what's on Velvia 50.
320 pixels x 320 pixels is 0.1MP per square millimeter.
35mm film is 24 x 36mm, or 864 square millimeters.
To scan most of the detail on a 35mm photo, you'll need about 864 x 0.1, or 87 Megapixels.
But wait: each film pixel represents true R, G and B data, not the softer Bayer interpolated data from digital camera sensors. A single-chip 87 MP digital camera still couldn't see details as fine as a piece of 35mm film.
Since the lie factor factor from digital cameras is about two, you'd need a digital camera of about 87 x 2 = 175 MP to see every last detail that makes onto film.

So that's 87 MP for super high-end 35mm film that's meant for still photography, not motion picture film.[/quote]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velvia

Velvia has the highest resolving power of any slide film.[4][5] A 35 mm Velvia slide can resolve up to 160 lines per mm.[6]

A more typical number for still photograpy:

The very short answer is that there are around 20 million "quality" pixels in a top-quality 35mm shot. That's a shot with a tripod, mirror-up, with a top-rate lens and the finest-grained film, in decent light. 12 million are more typical for "good" shots.

http://pic.templetons.com/brad/photo/pixels.html

Movie film isn't going to be that good. I've worked with sample film footage that's never been compressed in any way (other than reducing color depth to an amount that's still more than 10 bits per color) on a prototype 4K projector, and at 4K you can start to tell the difference between 35mm and 65mm.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Are you talking about still photography? The best still photography color film (by a pretty wide margin apparently) is around 87 MP, taking into account the Bayer filter on a digital camera it gets close to 200 MP, but the Bayer filter doesn't apply to the output.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/film-resolution.htm

So that's 87 MP for super high-end 35mm film that's meant for still photography, not motion picture film.

Many professional-quality film cameras use medium format or large format films. Because of the size of the imaging area, these can record higher resolution images than current top-of-the-range digital cameras. A medium format film image can record an equivalent potential of approximately 400 megapixels,[8] while large format films can record considerably larger (4 × 5 inch) which equates to around 800 megapixels on the largest common film format, 8 × 10 inches, without accounting for lens sharpness.[9]

From https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_versus_film_photography

See sources 8&9.

Kodak estimates their 35mm film stock is 6k equivalent, and IMAX film at 252 megapixels for 18k. http://gizmodo.com/5250780/how-regular-movies-become-imax-films

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

I believe they both will at some point.

 

[le-seb]

Clear from what exactly? Reading CDs requires a third laser in addition to DVD and BD. Since PS4 is all about costs cutting it is very likely that it's drive doesn't have that laser for CD at all. I think that there's actually a bigger chance that it can read UHD BD than CD as the former doesn't require a separate reading laser head.

"The biggest surprise for us all internally at Sony was there are so many people who passionately reacted to our announcement that there's no MP3 support or CD support on day one. It's not like we actively decided 'let's not do this feature so people will have to subscribe to Music Unlimited,'" he said. "The focus has been more on the game features. Some of the features we wanted but we couldn't get in on day one."

As such, Sony is working to add these features in an update. "We didn't really think about MP3 or CD," he continued. "We thought 'we're going to do that eventually.'... It caught us off-guard. People don't really talk about these features, right? Some people get really mad and [say] 'I'll cancel my pre-order!' So as we speak, people in Japan - the system guys - are discussing when we can put these features in."

Source

By the sound of it, the PS4 is technically able to play CDs, and just lacks the software to do so.

 

[EpicBox]

Amazing Spider-Man 2 and Elysium are some Blu-Rays that I know are 4K compatible.

The PS4 does play 3D Blu-Rays, but I don't know about 4K. It's also worth noting, there are no Blu-Rays that play 3D + 4K at the same time. Amazing Spider-Man 2 has 4K on 2D only.

I do wish 3D support was still there for console games. The only PS4 game with 3D support is Trine 2. And they're removing it for the Uncharted 3 remaster, which is annoying.

 

[Nipo]

I think this is going to be the selling point for both PS4 and xbox one slim versions in 2016

 

[le-seb]

Amazing Spider-Man 2 and Elysium are some Blu-Rays that I know are 4K compatible.

Video streams in BD are limited to 1920x1080 (see figure 4-3 of the specs).
So, it probably just means that they've been mastered from a 4K source.

 

[Occam]

Except 4K doesn't suck like 3D does.

Sucks being a cyclops, I guess.

 

[TAJ]

If film is shot in 4K+ then I'm sure film companies will sell 4k versions of the film, If I'm buying a bluray (as I often do) its a no brainer to pick up the 4k version instead of the SD version IF the cost differential is small.

As 4k tv adaption increases it will become the norm to have the 1080p and 4k versions bundled, just as they do with DVD and bluray now.

Fucking lol at the bolded. Studios are sitting on HD masters of literally thousands of films that they don't plan on releasing on Blu-ray, and 4K will be even more niche. A lot of them are available on Vudu and/or Netflix, but many have never seen outside the studios.

 

[Wag]

PCs on the other hand should be able to support it. I own a 980Ti which has HDCP 2.2 support, as does the Titan X and the GTX 960.

It's really up to the software companies to decide whether or not they want to allow it. I would bet not- too nervous over piracy. (Netflix could easily add PC 4k support if they wanted). I could see them offering special versions of PowerDVD with UHD Blu-Ray support packed in with Nvidia cards.

 

[Cathcart]

Yes, although they never promised the PS4 would support UHD-BD, to be fair.

That being said, the Game & Network Services (Playstation), Imaging Products & Solutions (CMOS image sensors), and Pictures & Music divisions are where they're expecting future growth, so it would make sense bringing UHD-BD support to the PS4 if they technically can.

I'm not really sure what fairness has to do with it. Citng Sony's long history of supporting movie formats to sell consoles as a reason they'd be likely to support 4k if possible was already fair.

 

[onQ123]

IIRC, the PS4 can't output 4K so there would be no point.

Edit: I stand corrected. The PS4 has HDMI 1.4 at that technically does support 4096×2160 but only at 24fps.

Edit2: 3840x2160 at 30fps, 4096×2160 at 24fps.

Guess you didn't remember correctly lol

 

[MikeE21286]

Not enough processing power to run good looking 4K games?

I'm sure there has to be some games that can render in 4k

I mean the PS3 rendered Okami HD in 4k IIRC?

 

[Koppai]

Well this is kind of a bummer as I am planning to buy a 4K TV with my coupon for working there. Will games look like shit on a 4K TV, or does it upscale? Need to ask my coworkers the questions haha.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Sucks being a cyclops, I guess.

I'm not gonna lie, I chortled when I read this. Well done.

Spoiler

There actually are people out there who for some reason cannot see the 3D effect in movies but their binocular vision works in real life depth perception. The human brain is a weird fucked up thing.

There's nothing technically in the HDMI spec which prevents PS4 from outputting 4K. However it remains to be seen if existing BD-ROM drives can read BD4K discs, we'll find that out soon enough though.

 

[Crisium]

Manufacturers are producing much less 1080p televisions. There probably won't be any in a year or two. 4k won't be niche.

There won't be any 1080p TV's in a year or two? Troll post?

If the BDROM Drive can't do it, then it's a no go. Hopefully they add 4K as a video option to PS4's for Netflix and other streaming though. It can do 4K @ 30Hz, and movies and TV are filmed at 24Hz so it's not a problem.

I'm sure there has to be some games that can render in 4k

I mean the PS3 rendered Okami HD in 4k IIRC?

Yeah, 4K @ 30 fps downscaled to 1080. Looks super sharp, although an option for 1080 @ 60 fps would have been nice, but maybe the engine didn't have animations for 60fps. A firmware update can easily allow 4K @ 30Hz / 24Hz and plenty of indie games and other low demanding games could run at this. But it's clearly not a priority for Sony at this time, and I can't blame them. But it would be cool to have some 4K ports of artistically impressive but technically lax games.

 

[Darkangel]

The PS4 can easily output 4K 30hz, so the BD laser itself will be the deciding factor.

Even the PS3 supports 4K to some extent

 

[Methos#1975]

Well this is kind of a bummer as I am planning to buy a 4K TV with my coupon for working there. Will games look like shit on a 4K TV, or does it upscale? Need to ask my coworkers the questions haha.

Most have pretty decent upscalers, games look pretty damn impressive on my LG set

 

[J-Rzez]

The PS4 can easily output 4K 30hz, so the BD laser itself will be the deciding factor.

Even the PS3 supports 4K to some extent

Correct.

It can do "4K" but depending on the hardware spec it can miss out on some of the important features found in the finalized 4K spec. Just like how some new TVs can't do it all (no HDR, color space, framerate, etc) despite being HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2.

 

[jett]

No, Ultra HD Blu-rays aren't backwards compatible. You need a new UHD BD player.

 

[CradleOfMan]

4K/8K will be just like 3D niche as fuck

Don't expect to see enough content worth purchasing hardware.

Same way I see it.

 

[TAJ]

No, Ultra HD Blu-rays aren't backwards compatible. You need a new UHD BD player.

You needed a new player for Blu-ray 3D, too... unless you had a PS3.

 

[Wag]

No people. No people. NO!!! How many times do I have to say this. No matter what the current specs are of the PS4 without HDCP 2.2 support the software companies will never allow it to play back UHD BD content.

 

[J-Rzez]

4K/8K will be just like 3D niche as fuck

Don't expect to see enough content worth purchasing hardware.

4K is inevitably happening thanks to Hollywood and hardware manufacturers. People said the same exact thing with HD, and it's process of transition moved much-much slower.

 

[ResidentDante]

Maybe in a future hardware revision down the road

Wouldn't that be really confusing, owners of the older versions complaining to shops that their 4K movies don't work etc.? Unless they rebrand it or something. The PS4K?!

 

[andrerobot]

You needed a new player for Blu-ray 3D, too... unless you had a PS3.

That's because consumer electronic industry relies on planned obsolescence. Software updates, besides bug fixes, on equipment such as TVs and Blu-ray players is rare.

Heck, I have a 2013 Denon receiver that has Spotify, but the newer models support the better Spotify Connect, that can run on anything. Denon hasn't bothered to add support to old models because the business model is to make people have to buy new hardware.

SCE releases new consoles every 6-8 years, so it's in their best interest to keep pumping new features, so they don't lose existing customers, and possible get new ones too.

 

[le-seb]

I'm not really sure what fairness has to do with it. Citng Sony's long history of supporting movie formats to sell consoles as a reason they'd be likely to support 4k if possible was already fair.

Sony advertised the original PS as being able to play CD, the PS2 as being able to play DVD, and the PS3 as being able to play BD.
But they never said that the PS4 would be able to play the next BD format, now known as UHD-BD.
So it's fair not getting mad at them if they don't bring support for it.

No, Ultra HD Blu-rays aren't backwards compatible. You need a new UHD BD player.

UHD-BD players are backward compatible, since they'll be able to play the older Blu-ray discs.
What you seem to be asking for is forward compatibility.

 

[dr_rus]

Source

By the sound of it, the PS4 is technically able to play CDs, and just lacks the software to do so.

Well, technically you don't need any software to playback a CD as this is a PCM audio stream - no need to decode it or anything. Since they already have the player for music stored on the USB for custom soundtracks making the same player playback CDs would be a non-issue if the drive itself can read them. But it doesn't for some reason.

 

[le-seb]

Well, technically you don't need any software to playback a CD as this is a PCM audio stream - no need to decode it or anything. Since they already have the player for music stored on the USB for custom soundtracks making the same player playback CDs would be a non-issue if the drive itself can read them. But it doesn't for some reason.

Your playback software still needs to be informed there's some CDDA available to play, and instruct the drive what to do to get the PCM stream, you know?
This means Sony has to provide some kind of API to this software.