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[Pseudo judo]

Dat wishful thinking.

Yeah, but digital titles offer no resale value, give added value to the console, revenue from dlc for these titles is obviously still possible. Gives diverse value to any number of customers who can now choose the game they want. In my mind it makes sense but there's almost zero chance MS would do it I agree.

 

[Satchel]

Keeping us in the loop? Oh mahgawd what saints!

I hardly call this keeping us in the loop. This is PR to get sales, plain and simple.

Talk about going from one extreme to the other.

 

[ShadyJ]

Its hilarious that this console is now the bastard child of what they originally wanted.

 

[NullPointer]

We agree in intent and are pretty much just arguing semantics I just don't think it should be defined as a 'feature' in the sense of something a customer would read on the back of a product package.

OK, you got me. That would be pretty eye-raising (and funny) to read on the box.

But you know they'll bring it up somewhere, in marketing speak. Maybe in the fine print of the manual, or online FAQ.

 

[KAOS]

So far it's everything the people wanted. Now price match the ps4 and let the fun ensue!

 

[xxracerxx]

Talk about going from one extreme to the other.

So you do not call the unboxing videos PR? How about the Sony "how to share" video?

It is all PR.

 

[Nosgoroth]

Seems like the best compromise, good decision. I don't expect Kinect to be removed from the SKU, developers would want it there if they're going to develop for it.

Slowly, Xbone is becoming an option I can consider.

 

[Satchel]

So you do not call the unboxing videos PR? How about the Sony "how to share" video?

It is all PR.

Weren't we referring to Albert posting in this thread?

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

Double 180 = Xbox 360

 

[Bsigg12]

My question is how exactly is the controller not the best way to navigate xbox one menus?

Still great news and i look forward to trying it out on day one, now if only my controller did not have that stupid "Day one edition" right on it.

Voice control. Its faster right now on the 360 if you have a Kinect. Being able to call up apps without having to find them first as well is big.

 

[MogCakes]

In engineering, "feature" has the same definition as "functionality" :
http://www.dictionaryofengineering.com/definition/feature.html



If it does something that you want it to do, it's a feature.
(some even have a wider definition, "if it does something we said it would do, it's a feature", hence the old programmer joke "it's not a bug, it's a feature !").

In the world of consumerism, a feature is something you read in the product description advertising its usefulness to your intended purposes. The ability to be turned off and unplugged is not among them for Kinect. We're coming from different perspectives here.

Sure, but someone internal to Microsoft would see it as an engineering issue with all the technical and organization implications already mentioned. That is the reason why I don't see a reason to roast him over the use of the word "feature".

I'm not roasting anyone. I don't recall throwing insults or making snide remarks here. You don't like me?

Really though, looking at it as an engineering issue and calling it a feature to customers doesn't strike me as the right way of going about it, is all. I'm not trying to ruin anyone's day.

 

[xxracerxx]

Weren't we referring to Albert posting in this thread?

Not when referred to as "they."

for all the shit MS is getting they are keeping us in the loop and actually taking the time to interact with us. Releasing videos about improvements and features I don't see the competition doing anything comparable.

That is the quote I was responding to.

 

[Kopite]

Demonstrates the importance of competition. If it wasn't for the PS4 we would probably wouldn't have seen all these changes.

 

[ElTorro]

I'm not roasting anyone. I don't recall throwing insults or making snide remarks here. You don't like me?

I wasn't intentionally referring to you in particular. Somebody lol'd at the word, that's all I remember.

 

[Arklite]

If you go back to the Unveil and E3 conferences, today's announcement doesn't change or diminish what we've said we were doing at all.

I agree 600%. The functionality is still there, which makes it all the more odd that Microsoft was adamant about its necessity to be plugged in. About its fantastic 'feature' to brick the console without it. Definitely glad Microsoft is making concessions (common sense decisions), because a lot of these policies were nonsensical.

 

[Skyzard]

How does the voice recognition work with thick accents? Also want to see the "snap" demonstrated for real, not faked. Still, good news...But then again...

Are we altering our vision or losing faith? No.

enjoy

All we said today is that we weren't going to brick the box if Kinect was unplugged. People making a leap thinking that means we've completely disconnected Kinect from the system would be wrong.

lmao


ms needs to fix live too, value is whack

 

[Zatoichi's Cane]

Demonstrates the importance of competition. If it wasn't for the PS4 we would probably wouldn't have seen all these changes.

absolutely....

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Double 180 = Xbox 360

They're already on quad-180 at this point = 720

 

[Raide]

I love it when people tell me what is best for me. I think all mute, speech disabled and non-English speaking people will love your console as much. Xbox, stay in America.

Kinect 2 could probably ready hand gestures or even sign language to operate the dash right? It seems to have much better clarity than Kinect 1 did, so I am sure MS is working on a way to bridge multiple gaps.

I saw some amazing uses of Kinect 1 outside of games development, so I expect to see that and more for Kinect2, especially once MS opens up all systems for dev and Kinect 2 getting bundled.

 

[Satchel]

Not when referred to as "they."



That is the quote I was responding to.

Oh ok. I misunderstood.

Obviously videos and the like are PR, but I don't interpret Albert being in her clarifying details as PR, although TECHNICALLY it is a form of PR if we're going to be picky about it.

 

[ElTorro]

Kinect 2 could probably ready hand gestures or even sign language to operate the dash right?

Wonder what showing Kinect "the finger" does.

 

[Ovek]

It doesn't fuck over devs. It's still going to be in the box, and we still have to pay for it even if we never intend to use it for anything.

Everyone is missing the point...

Microsoft has been telling developers that Kinect is always connected and available, it's not unrealistic to assume developers have utilised the Kinect that have no alternative control system. Only to find out two months before the launch that one of the corner stones of the console now doesn't even need to be plugged in.

But you can plug it in! Shut up already with this crap because how likely is that going to happen? That's right never.

So it does fuck developers as its turned the Kinect in to something that was always going to be there to now a glorified optional accessory. And optional is the key here as developers will now have to go back and re-think and that takes time and money.

Welcome to the Xbox 360.5 the boring stagnent console apparently everyone really wanted.

 

[Pseudo judo]

In the world of consumerism, a feature is something you read in the product description advertising its usefulness to your intended purposes
.

If both definitions = true then belittling the nature of how the word was first used makes you incorrect.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Wonder what showing Kinect "the finger" does.

Orders you a six-pack of Mountain Dew.

 

[saladine1]

The whole MS drama has been one amazing ride.

Now, we can go back to what really matters...gaming.

 

[bishoptl]

Oh ok. I misunderstood.

Obviously videos and the like are PR, but I don't interpret Albert being in her clarifying details as PR, although TECHNICALLY it is a form of PR if we're going to be picky about it.

Make no mistake, his presence here is the very definition of public relations.

That said, I'm glad he's here and can interact with the forum.

Everyone is missing the point...

Microsoft has been telling developers that Kinect is always connected and available, it's not unrealistic to assume developers have utilised the Kinect that have no alternative control system. Only to find out two months before the launch that one of the corner stones of the console now doesn't even need to be plugged in.

But you can plug it in! Shut up already with this crap because how likely is that going to happen? That's right never.

So it does fuck developers as its turned the Kinect in to something that was always going to be there to now a glorified optional accessory. And optional is the key here as developers will now have to go back and re-think and that takes time and money.

Welcome to the Xbox 360.5 the boring stagnent console apparently everyone really wanted.

You're way off base.

Developers know that it's in every box, so they can create features based on that knowing that there's a 100% attach rate. It's not optional at purchase (unfortunately) and users can go dig their Kinect out of the closet and reattach it whenever it makes sense for them. It will always be available, and that is the certainty developers would be looking for before investing in any Kinect-specific features.

 

[NullPointer]

But you can plug it in! Shut up already with this crap because how likely is that going to happen? That's right never.

Why do yo believe so strongly that people won't plug it in? They've paid for it, the system is designed around it, and every buyer will have one at the ready.

I'd think all but a few would at least try it out.

 

[MogCakes]

If both definitions = true then belittling the nature of how the word was first used makes you incorrect.

Care to explain how? Telling consumers their perspective is incorrect seems pretty arrogant IMHO.

OK, you got me. That would be pretty eye-raising (and funny) to read on the box.

But you know they'll bring it up somewhere, in marketing speak. Maybe in the fine print of the manual, or online FAQ.

They probably will lol

I wasn't intentionally referring to you in particular. Somebody lol'd at the word, that's all I remember.

Ah alright then.

 

[JABEE]

The whole MS drama has been one amazing ride.

Now, we can go back to what really matters...gaming.

That's what this has been about the whole time.

 

[ypo]

Keeping us in the loop? Oh mahgawd what saints!

I hardly call this keeping us in the loop. This is PR to get sales, plain and simple.

It's not PR if you call it marketing.

Its hilarious that this console is now the bastard child of what they originally wanted.

but don't you see that's what they wanted originally, a bastard of a console. So visions retained all is good.

 

[Alx]

Everyone is missing the point...

Microsoft has been telling developers that Kinect is always connected and available, it's not unrealistic to assume developers have utilised the Kinect that have no alternative control system. Only to find out two months before the launch that one of the corner stones of the console now doesn't even need to be plugged in.

But you can plug it in! Shut up already with this crap because how likely is that going to happen? That's right never.

They said quite clearly that you'd be prompted to connect your kinect when you start a game that requires it... if you don't do it, you won't be able to play. Which won't be any different from the situation when kinect was required to be always connected.

 

[xxracerxx]

Oh ok. I misunderstood.

Obviously videos and the like are PR, but I don't interpret Albert being in her clarifying details as PR, although TECHNICALLY it is a form of PR if we're going to be picky about it.

Sure he puts a more human voice on the changes, but don't delude yourself thinking he is not on the job when here no matter how much he says otherwise. I may be cynical as shit but everything I read from his post history screams 'on message.'

 

[spoon!]

Probably the best thing they can do given the situation, embarrassment aside.

 

[ElTorro]

Why do yo believe so strongly that people won't plug it in? They've paid for it, the system is designed around it, and every buyer will have one at the ready.

I also seriously doubt that the number of people who won't plug it in is substantial. The implications of this news are in my opinion, exaggerated because most people hoped it to be the first step towards a SKU without Kinect. But that won't be the case. So, I doubt that many people who didn't consider a XB1 have now changed their minds. And those who already considered it before apparently didn't have a problem with a connected Kinect in the first place.

 

[Copenap]

I don't see how this can be bad news by any means like some poster are making it out to be.

Seems like the best compromise, good decision. I don't expect Kinect to be removed from the SKU, developers would want it there if they're going to develop for it.

Slowly, Xbone is becoming an option I can consider.

I agree at least for release but my hopes went slightly up regarding a Kinectless sku sometime down the line when I might consider picking one up.

 

[Chubby Rain]

So what is microsoft's vision for this console? I fail to see it now

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

I'd buy a Kinect-less Xbox One at launch if they can also undercut Sony in the UK.

 

[Satchel]

Make no mistake, his presence here is the very definition of public relations.

That said, I'm glad he's here and can interact with the forum.

I said that didn't I?

I'm just saying I don't see it as PR in the strictest sense given the context of the Xbox one mixed messaging.

it seems harsh to me to simply label Alberts presence in here as "pffft PR" given he's genuinely trying to clarify the situation.

As you said, his input here would be appreciated on the whole. I would have loved to hear from a Sony person in that thread discussing the UI.

 

[madmackem]

Why do yo believe so strongly that people won't plug it in? They've paid for it, the system is designed around it, and every buyer will have one at the ready.

I'd think all but a few would at least try it out.

Devs cant guarantee it though thats what hes saying.

 

[Mael]

Welcome to the Xbox 360.5 the boring stagnent console apparently everyone really wanted.

LMAO!
I don't know if you're serious but my god it's funny.
Protip : value is defined by the customers, not the corporations or some crap like that.
It's pretty clear the current deal provide more value than the inital deal.
I'm pretty sure the market has spoken here.

And about mandatory kinect, appart from 1rst party devs who were going to use it?
Let's be real 3rd parties can't even wrap their heads around a touchscreen or a stick with buttons so the giant clusterfuck of input that is kinect?

 

[mocoworm]

So why is it bundled?

Read the OP

We still believe in Kinect. We aren’t interested in splitting the development base. The more demos I’ve seen, the more I’ve used it – the more impressed I am. The team feels strongly about Kinect, and I hope we’re able to prove that when you use it.

 

[bishoptl]

I said that didn't I?

I'm just saying I don't see it as PR in the strictest sense given the context of the Xbox one mixed messaging.

It's that viewpoint that I'm calling out as naive.

 

[kevcampbell]

Good news but I am still buying PS4

Would be interesting to hear from anyone who is now considering the xbox one over the ps4 after this news

 

[Bsigg12]

Devs cant guarantee it though thats what hes saying.

They know every Xbox One comes with a Kinect. If you produce a product that requires it, there is no questioning how many people actually have a Kinect. If a person wants to play that game, all they have to do is plug it in, not buy a new peripheral.

 

[Finalizer]

herp

Did everyone collectively forget that you could already turn off Kinect? Being able to unplug it is simply an extension of that. Developers already had to design games under the assumption that some part of the audience would have their Kinects turned off and not want to turn them back on for anything. They're still guaranteed that a Kinect was included with every Xbone sale, which means a 100% attach rate no matter how you slice it.

 

[MogCakes]

I said that didn't I?

I'm just saying I don't see it as PR in the strictest sense given the context of the Xbox one mixed messaging.

it seems harsh to me to simply label Alberts presence in here as "pffft PR" given he's genuinely trying to clarify the situation.

As you said, his input here would be appreciated on the whole. I would have loved to hear from a Sony person in that thread discussing the UI.

Oh ok. I misunderstood.

Obviously videos and the like are PR, but I don't interpret Albert being in her clarifying details as PR, although TECHNICALLY it is a form of PR if we're going to be picky about it.

:|

 

[madmackem]

They know every Xbox One comes with a Kinect. If you produce a product that requires it, there is no questioning how many people actually have a Kinect. If a person wants to play that game, all they have to do is plug it in, not buy a new peripheral.

Im more thinking of better with kinect and kinect features, are devs likley to spend more time and money on a thing that is optional to connect and not always going to be there?, im not so sure i know if i was running budgets id slash that shit right out as soon as they made this announcement.

 

[Alx]

So what is microsoft's vision for this console? I fail to see it now

Same as before. Only they're now trying to appease those that were concerned about (the possibility of) being spied on 24/7, or didn't want a peripheral in front of their TV if they don't intend to use it.

 

[xxracerxx]

I said that didn't I?

I'm just saying I don't see it as PR in the strictest sense given the context of the Xbox one mixed messaging.

it seems harsh to me to simply label Alberts presence in here as "pffft PR" given he's genuinely trying to clarify the situation.

Come on man.

 

[Satchel]

It's that viewpoint that I'm calling out as naive.

But then all we've heard since May is about Microsoft not clarifying anything.

So Albert (a key figure) joins the forum to do exactly that and yes, you are right it is "PR", but as you said, I guess its more attitude by a few towards his presence given his intent that seems strange to me.

If I was in a Nintendo thread that was addressing the Gamepad's design flaws and Reggie came in explaining what the impetus was for those decisions, my first instinct wouldn't be "pffft, whatevs Reggie, this is just PR".

I thought developer/executive presence was part of what makes this forum great no?

The dismissive attitude seems like a counter productive one in terms of fostering that sort of confidence by devs and execs to continue to join and interact with the community.

That's all.