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Xbox One's Scaler May Be Applying a Sharpening Filter to All Sub-1080p Games
- Thread starter madmackem
- Start date
jim2point0
Banned
Yeah, the textures were still streaming in but FUCK that's heinous.
This is exactly what most of these screens look like. Bad SweetFX or ENB presets.
Zombi U has some awesome lighting and graphics, DR3 doesn't look anything like it to me.
499 US dolla bills, y'all.
This looks like an Unsharp Mask, which is called an Unsharp mask because it "sharpens" by blurring. Basically you blur the image, then find where the blurred image is most different from the original and intensify the color there to make edges stand out more. In many cases it will make a blurry picture look clearer, but there are plenty of cases where it makes it look worse, most notably where the image already had sharp lines (like outlined text).
Yeah, just from Google Image Searching ZombiU, it looks more next-gen than Dead Rising 3. I really like the soft-focus look, especially compared to the oversharpened, disgusting mess that is DR3.
Have a Nice Day
Member
I would blame Capcom for that actually, DR3 was supposed to be a 360 game and the devs probably had little to no time/budget to polish it for next gen.
Amazing.Here's the original 1080p shot from Xbox One:
They are seriously upscaling an aliased image with a sharpening kernel. Someone else nailed it when he said it's reminescent of PS2 IQ when it comes to aliasing.
Microsoft, I came up with a scaling method specifically designed for sharply scaling aliased images 4 years ago. I called it adaptive Lanczos scaling. The code is on github, feel free to use it.
If I didn't know any better, I would assume that ZombiU was the Xbox One game and Dead Rising 3 was the WiiU game.
Nervous Sausage
Member
Well this explains everything, I thought I was crazy but I noticed the exact same crushed blacks on every game, especially Killer instinct and Dead Rising 3, where it's sometimes impossible to see if you're in a dark area, even with the gamma turned up quite a bit. The harsh sharpening I definitely noticed as well which I'm guessing Microsoft did to fool people into thinking the image was sharp and clear when in reality, it makes the game look like shit. VERY disappointed with what I've seen graphically on this console and from what I've used of the Media, UI and Kinect features, I hardly think those things are worth the sacrifice Microsoft made with GPU power.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
DR3 really looks pretty bad. There are moments where its impressive with the sheer amount of zombies on screen but overall it can look like a real mess.
Chance Hale
Member
Dead Rising 3 doesn't look like that screenshot above at all. That's right in the middle of some delayed texture streaming. Game definitely doesn't have great IQ but the lighting effects are wonderful and the scale(there really are thousands on zombies on screen depending on the area) truly sets it apart from other current gen games. Not to mention a lot of minor things like objects and bodies sticking around, various objects such as fences that break apart in dynamic ways, etc.
And Zombi U didn't have any dynamic lighting of any sort. It's a decent looking game but saying it looks better than Dead Rising 3 is somewhat absurd.
And Zombi U didn't have any dynamic lighting of any sort. It's a decent looking game but saying it looks better than Dead Rising 3 is somewhat absurd.
MadVR is the only way I watch videosYou and madshi - the guy behind madVR would get along really well
Chobel
Member
Too late now, I don't think Xbox One's scaler is programmable.
You came up with that? Nice work dude. Is their scaler programmable then? I'm assuming it is?
Haunted
Member
what is this
I have no idea, honestly. The "the code is on github" line was just meant to illustrate that it's neither new nor rocket science to scale rendered images in a way which does not make them look completely disgusting. And I'm certainly neither the only one nor the first to come up with much better methods than what these games are doing.
The thing that is really annoying about this is that, to the average consumer, the over-sharpened and irreversibly damaged image output by the xbone scaler looks better.
Even in our own DF threads, I consistently see comments from less technical people about how they prefer the xbone screens, since they "pop" more.
You can bet microsoft had focus groups of thousands of mothers and teens and grandparents helping them decide sharpening aggressiveness. To them, it just looks "better", and since microsoft doesn't seem to be targeting the pixel counting demographics as much any more, that's really all that matters to them.
To a casual observer, their crushed blacks and ridiculous over-sharpening simply look "better. It's the same problem as in-store TVs generally running ludicrous settings, only here the damage to the IQ is irreversible.
People are essentially idiots, microsoft is just catering to the larger market.
edit: That adaptive lanczos is sexy.
Even in our own DF threads, I consistently see comments from less technical people about how they prefer the xbone screens, since they "pop" more.
You can bet microsoft had focus groups of thousands of mothers and teens and grandparents helping them decide sharpening aggressiveness. To them, it just looks "better", and since microsoft doesn't seem to be targeting the pixel counting demographics as much any more, that's really all that matters to them.
To a casual observer, their crushed blacks and ridiculous over-sharpening simply look "better. It's the same problem as in-store TVs generally running ludicrous settings, only here the damage to the IQ is irreversible.
People are essentially idiots, microsoft is just catering to the larger market.
edit: That adaptive lanczos is sexy.
weekend_warrior
Banned
Listen man, people want to be able to watch football in a tiny corner in the screen while playing games, so compromises had to be made. You can't even tell the difference between 720p and 1080p.
I'll put it this way- from a programming perspective, no matter what the game, you're going to have to do a lot of optimization to hit 1080p on XB1. It's just much easier to go with 720p, especially since the display panes allow you to display UI at 1080p. It's just the nature of the ESRAM bottleneck.
What I do find odd is that even the UI is affected by the sharpening filter, which shouldn't be right since it technically could be displayed at native 1080p while the actual game is 720p...huh.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
as a day one xb1 owner, horse shit.
AcceptableGhost
Member
you guys dont get it
its a next gen scaler
(these screenshots look miserable)
its a next gen scaler
(these screenshots look miserable)
Pretty sure it's sarcasm.
sol_bad
Member
Is there something online or on Blu Ray to help calibrate a plasma screen properly?
But it's such sharp
wow
many pixels
please tell me this isn't an Xbox One game...
L4D2 looks 3 years out from what i'm seeing here
The Main Event
Member
Wow so this is true. Hopefully MS will address this in a future update. At least give the user the option. Totally unacceptable.
I think everyone has said everything that can be said on this, but figure I'll give my piece too. I was thrown back quite a bit when I found out years ago that the 360 was crushing blacks and washing out white material on purpose. That to me was just incredible, and I second the thoughts that they must have used focus groups of individuals who just have no clue what a proper image should like. Since most TVs, and by extension most of their users, utilize dynamic settings and crushed dark and light material already out of the box I just don't get why MS would go with either of these image destroying "features". I fear some day going over to a friends place who has a One and seeing the already blown out TV picture piled on with MS's further crushing blacks and eye bleeding sharpness.
From a pure IQ perspective, I just can't get over how asinine this is. Even if MS didn't initially screw the pooch in my mind over the forced DRM and online BS, and I was considering getting a One for any decent exclusives, this alone would put me off for good.
From a pure IQ perspective, I just can't get over how asinine this is. Even if MS didn't initially screw the pooch in my mind over the forced DRM and online BS, and I was considering getting a One for any decent exclusives, this alone would put me off for good.
dreamer3kx
Member
Xbox one is pretty much a 360 with Kinect 2.
Pure, unrefined hubris.
Looks like Typing of the Dead Overkill to me.
...but oh god, there's no typing. WHERE IS THE TYPING?!
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
The nonstandard gamma setting of the 360 really skewed proper calibration attempts. These "darker blacks" and "richer colors" was noting but crushing blacks and losing shadow details. All those comparisons when the PS3 versions would looked "washed out" in comparison became all too apparent when I realized what was happening to the video output. The PS3 was easier to find better settings for since it used the proper gamma settings like it should. I have to use higher brightness settings and contrast for my 360 because of it.
I can't believe they would go even worse video output on the One, in what looks like a locked equivalent of "dynamic contrast" and sharpness dialed to 11 when it has always been best to shut off dynamic contrast and set sharpness to the proper neutral setting of a tv set.
plagiarize
Banned
Everybody here assume that using sharpness filter is optional because Ryse doesn't use it. Well Ryse doesn't use Xbox One upscaler. Crytek use their own technique.
Is using sharpness filter really optional for devs?
I speculated on this. I am not happy to find out I was right. This shit needs to have a better option for disabling it than outputting 720p. what if we get a 900p game that uses it? we have to throw away all that resolution to not have artificial sharpening? eurgh.
EURGH.
Exactly, what MS needs to do (although unless the regular gaming "news" sites put it on blast I doubt they will) is when you initially setup the One's resolution/audio etc. They make you go through an option of enabling "Dynamic Contrast" and the "Edge Enhancement" or disabling it, perhaps utilizing a natively rendered 3D scene and switching back and forth. Now granted even with the option it is likely many will still keep it, not knowing what is proper, but at least those who are aware of its crap effect will have the option.
JordoftheDead
Member
Having fun with it otherwise but it's particularly noticeable on KI. Looks like someone has set the sets sharpness high.
a Master Ninja
Member
Microsoft, if you have any sense, let Durante help you.