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[BoboBrazil]

i agree, it was an anomaly. not that it happened, but that it was exposed ...

assuming that the one time someone's actually caught with their hand in the cookie jar demonstrates how otherwise no one's stealing cookies is pretty naive. as in, maybe they've just gotten better at it?...

It's not the only example either. Microsoft was just caught trying to bribe youtuber's to give good reviews of Xbox One and games.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

I think that publishers are constantly trying to exert influence over video game websites and magazines, and I think that readers always should be asking questions and criticizing what they see. Yes, publishers try to game review scores and Metacritic all the time, which is one entry on a very long list of reasons that I wish review scores would go away, but that's not the point I'm trying to make. My argument here is that you should be skeptical in a smarter way than "omg money for positive coverage!" The problems are more subtle than that. Ironically, we're in a thread complaining about hyperbole...

That's my main issue with coverage/reviews, etc there's no critique. If writers actually critiqued the games they were playing rather than just trumping out 'Buzz Words' (I guess 'Buzz Word' is a buzz word) then the reader should be be able to make their own informed decision on if the game is for them or not. There should be no need for 10/10s.
Sadly, I feel like reviews have moved away from this. There are no opinions, feelings, thoughts, 'this worked', 'this could be improved' moments in reviews anymore, or at least in the ones I've read.
It all reads as very safe copy that might have been lifted from Publisher Press Release kits - highlighting all the amazing features but rarely discussing the bits that fail (or in some cases break the game).

Perhaps this is what you're talking about too.

 

[Glass Shark]

It's not the only example either. Microsoft was just caught trying to bribe youtuber's to give good reviews of Xbox One and games.

And ironically, many GAF members trust those YouTubers, who don't have to disclose any relationships or payment, more than members of the press.

 

[twobear]

What world do you live in?

PlayStation Home.

 

[Glass Shark]

Sadly, I feel like reviews have moved away from this. There are no opinions, feelings, thoughts, 'this worked', 'this could be improved' moments in reviews anymore, or at least in the ones I've read.

I say this in the nicest way possible: read more. Explore publications outside of what you normally read. There is plenty of opinion out there.

It's funny to hear some people complaining about "too much opinion" in game reviews while others say they don't see enough. There's something for everyone out there, you just have to find it.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

I say this in the nicest way possible: read more. Explore publications outside of what you normally read. There is plenty of opinion out there.

It's funny to hear some people complaining about "too much opinion" in game reviews while others say they don't see enough. There's something for everyone out there, you just have to find it.

Oh no, I totally get that, but I tend to find it's the smaller bloggers who put that effort in. I've not really found a mainstream website that offers this yet, except perhaps RPS.

I guess what the IGN guy makes some sense why they don't do such analysis or discussions on games, since they're just catering for the casual market. However, it seems to me like all the mainstream websites are for the casual market and offer little thought, critique or discussion into their writings.
I guess I'm in the minority in wanting that.

 

[DoktorEvil]

And ironically, many GAF members trust those YouTubers, who don't have to disclose any relationships or payment, more than members of the press.

It's really obvious half the time, like when Game Grumps and Two Best Friends both gave a great "preview" of Shovel Knight.

But you are correct that they don't implicitly share if there is a conflict of interest.

 

[CornBurrito]

For allegedly hating me so much, you guys seem to spend an awful lot of time thinking and talking about me.

This pseudo-Freudian "oh you talk about me because you like me" is such bullshit. Pure unsubstantiated bullshit.

 

[Coffee Dog]

For allegedly hating me so much, you guys seem to spend an awful lot of time thinking and talking about me.

Lol, really?

Are we back in fourth grade?

 

[FryHole]

Is this all based on your assumption of how things work or do you have specific examples in mind?

That post is dedicated solely to outlining my belief that, regardless of what industry we're talking about, outright bribes and cultivated environments in which bribery is unnecessary are not separate issues at all, but alternative routes to the same outcome. It was intended to counter the sentence "That's another issue entirely."

So as to not to appear evasive though, I'll cheerfully go on record as saying that I absolutely believe the latter happens in the videogame industry on a pretty regular basis, a belief based on what's probably an entirely unconvincing combination of anonymous testimony; non-anonymous testimony from those no longer so deeply entwined within the system; the occasional "can open, worms everywhere" event like Gerstmann; many years of witnessing not exactly slam dunk but still suspect situations like Driv3r and Rise of The Robots; the whole Doritos farce and what it showed about the coziness of the relationship twixt journo and PR; my own experiences in a few places I've worked (unrelated to the videogame industry) and a cynical suspicion that the same scenarios tend to play out regardless of what the product is; the usefulness of twitter in revealing how appalling some of the characters in the industry are and the knock-on effect that has on my willingness to believe them capable of any and all manner of mendacity; and finally, and least useful should I ever have to testify in court about any of this, a complete inability to conceive of a world in which adults with an apparently decent grasp on the art of assembling words into meaningful sentences could write some of this shit without the spectre of money, be it cold and hard or rather more abstract, standing over their shoulder.

 

[Vlade]

It's just so dumb. Think about it for a second: every hardcore gamer on the web remembers GerstmannGate, and not only was that 7 years ago, it wasn't even direct bribery--just an advertiser putting pressure on a gaming outlet, and the gaming outlet giving in. We remember it because it's the rare example of something like that ever happening. It was an anomaly. It was crazy.

If money was actually exchanged for positive editorial coverage, don't you think that'd have come out by now? Don't you think there'd be a huge scandal? Wouldn't both the publisher and outlet be tarnished for years to come? Why would it even be worth it for anyone involved?

Sometimes it's time to put down the tinfoil hat and accept that the simplest explanation - people get excited for things, and excitement generates interest - is usually true.

Does access count as money? Why was Sessler upset that he wouldn't get review materials and that would ruin him? How do you get that access? How do you keep that access? Overly positive reviews are excusable as the benefit of the doubt?

 

[EatinOlives]

I don't really expect to win over a lot of people in this thread, but I'm happy to give a constructive reply and give it a shot.
<rebuttal snip>

Though I don't agree with your points (it's really not that hard to plug in an HDMI cable to your TV, the "PC is desk-only" mentality won't go away anytime soon if people keep perpetuating the idea that it's really hard to work with), it's still respectable that you took the time to write a rebuttal to the arguments. That's far more respectable than other people like Gies, who instead prefers to have a twitter circlejerk of "lel GAF being GAF" whenever he's criticized.

 

[Zombie James]

i just rolled my eyes when he mentioned titanfall in an infamous vid. seriously they're not even in the same genre.

Which video?

 

[sploatee]

I'm just gonna barge in here and say that I don't care about the hate Gies gets on here. Everything has its faults but Polygon generally has damn fine content. Their reviews are usually quite sensible too. I like the attention they give to indies and the sociological aspects of games. If I'm in the mood for thinking cap I'll log on.

Same goes for IGN. It's irrelevant to me that they are this giant mainstream monolith. There's a good four or five editors there that I always watch on YouTube because they are entertaining. I don't take their review scores as gospel (though I trust grumpy Colin Moriarty). IGNs good for getting the mainstream view without it being too dumb.

I think the plethora of opinions and styles out there is a good thing. And so what if there's hype? I like hype. It can be exciting to buy in sometimes. And if I want something colder and more measured, there's always Edge.

 

[Darkgran]

Nah, this is: Link

Wait. He doesn't actually say "have you seen Titanfall"

It's all been a lie!!!!

 

[Mackins]

It's just so dumb. Think about it for a second: every hardcore gamer on the web remembers GerstmannGate, and not only was that 7 years ago, it wasn't even direct bribery--just an advertiser putting pressure on a gaming outlet, and the gaming outlet giving in. We remember it because it's the rare example of something like that ever happening. It was an anomaly. It was crazy.

If money was actually exchanged for positive editorial coverage, don't you think that'd have come out by now? Don't you think there'd be a huge scandal? Wouldn't both the publisher and outlet be tarnished for years to come? Why would it even be worth it for anyone involved?

Sometimes it's time to put down the tinfoil hat and accept that the simplest explanation - people get excited for things, and excitement generates interest - is usually true.

No, not really, much larger things on an international scale get pushed under the carpet. A lot of things go on in the industry that no one ever hears about and probably never will. Some one taking back handers for favourable previews/reviews is entirely plausible, it happens in different industries the world over.

 

[wotta]

Why is it that there are no proper investigative journalists in the gaming industry?

I mean can anyone name one site that properly gets behind the scenes and break stories that matter, for instance wouldn't it be nice if someone could find out the real story behind the MS and EA deal?

In my opinion all sites are far too scared to upset PR's and it needs to stop. They need to start doing their job properly and not care who they upset. How can you call yourself a journalist if you take "no comment" for an answer?

I just can't stand the way journalists pander to PR and Publishers. All they ever seem to do is gush the praises of games (yeah I get it they are gamers too). But when do any of them actually bring us news that matters?

Look at every site out there today? If you can find a site that's got different stories from the other then good on you. It's a copy and paste industry with no proper reporting. There are more breaking stories on GAF than anywhere else. There is more real information on otherwise hidden details on GAF than anywhere else. This is a fact. Investigative Journalism in the gaming industry does not exist and it's a real shame.

 

[wotta]

Would love to know how other people feel about the above?

 

[tassletine]

Titanfall's previews didn't start from "very positive", "definitely worth looking forward", "a new great take on the online shooter genre", they started right at "absolute utterly majestic fantastic killer app of awesomeness".

The concept that money didn't cross hands for this to happen is just as ridiculous as believing your secret Nigerian uncle is a prince, how this money crossed -menacing ad removal, or plain bribery- now that's more of a contentious argument. I have relatively little problem with advertising being pushed as "articles" when it's so obvious it's self-parody, but gaming journalism looks awkward when it tries to wear the advertising shoe in one foot and the journalism shoe in the other; putting together a paid preview of a game on one page and a skeptical preview of another game in another.

Almost as awkward as saying a user is a hardcore PC technician if he can connect a hdmi cable between his video card and his TV and push "big picture" on steam's interface. You're the specialist journalists, you're the ones that should teach your audience those amazing tricks, not craft artificial dumbness to match a pre-constructed audience stereotype, salvo bitch and moan when the real audience congregates on a forum like this one and mocks the entire game reporting industry.

Now, being realistic, i don't expect game journalism to stop writing paid or forced previews, that's how the game is rigged right now, but at least i do expect them to discover Minecraft a week before 4chan, i do expect them to hit the resolution-gate with the same strength as NeoGAF did, to detail what TV PC gaming is, and stop posting straight bullshit, like 720p is just like 1080p, DRM is harmless, the audience is powerless, and other complete fuckups the press has collected as of late.

If even this is "too much to ask", why exactly this whole "gaming journalism" thing exists?

I agree very much with this. Game journalism has now just become a case of backing the right horse to look good from the start. We're in a recession so everyone is scared for their jobs.
Titanfall looks like a surefire hit so lets just say it is and then we won't look like fools when it sells, which it obviously will. The same thing happens with GTA. Those games are great graphically and certainly have something to offer, but the gameplay mechanics are fairly weak, yet they still get 10's.
I remember seeing an IGN video a while ago in which every single reviewer admitted that they didn't even finish GTA4 because they got bored. So how exactly did it get such high scores? I wonder...
The opposite is true for the WiiU, no one quite gets it so the system is marked permanently with a 'failed' tag, and the stories are spun negatively, even though the individual games get high scores.

The sad thing is, the perception of these games means everything to the buyer, and these non objective 'reviews' change the market. There's little in TItanfall that hasn't been done before, and all this hype is going to do is usher in is yet another plague of boring, boxy FPS with bad AI (despite the quality of Titanfall).
These previews are directly responsible for this. There are very few articles that point out how last gen the graphics are in Titanfall and that shows obvious bias and is extremely suspect. Far Cry 2 looks better than this shit.

Let the FPS genre be put up against other genres not held up on a pedestal because it sells more. Something that sells isn't necessarily a good product by definition and anyone who thinks there is a correlation between money and quality is very stupid.

 

[enanogrande]

And ironically, many GAF members trust those YouTubers, who don't have to disclose any relationships or payment, more than members of the press.

I'm not quite sure where you got the 'don't have to' part from. The fact that they don't most of the time is probably true (we can't really know for sure), but that doesn't mean they don't have to.

 

[RealityPales]

Kane & Lynch.

Never forget.

I've stopped caring about almost all publications after that one.

 

[jschreier]

Why is it that there are no proper investigative journalists in the gaming industry?

I mean can anyone name one site that properly gets behind the scenes and break stories that matter, for instance wouldn't it be nice if someone could find out the real story behind the MS and EA deal?

In my opinion all sites are far too scared to upset PR's and it needs to stop. They need to start doing their job properly and not care who they upset. How can you call yourself a journalist if you take "no comment" for an answer?

I just can't stand the way journalists pander to PR and Publishers. All they ever seem to do is gush the praises of games (yeah I get it they are gamers too). But when do any of them actually bring us news that matters?

Look at every site out there today? If you can find a site that's got different stories from the other then good on you. It's a copy and paste industry with no proper reporting. There are more breaking stories on GAF than anywhere else. There is more real information on otherwise hidden details on GAF than anywhere else. This is a fact. Investigative Journalism in the gaming industry does not exist and it's a real shame.

I just don't understand how someone cares enough to take the time to write a post like this but doesn't care enough to google a little bit and find all of the investigative reports done in gaming, from Simon Parkin on the links between shooters and real-life gun manufacturers to Andrew McMillen on Team Bondi and many more. And at risk of shilling my own site's work, how are you not aware of Kotaku's reports on LucasArts and Silicon Knights and Aliens: Colonial Marines? If you want to complain that there's not enough investigation in gaming, sure, I won't argue there. But to say there's none just makes you sound ignorant. At least try to do your research.

 

[PolarGamer]

Almost as awkward as saying a user is a hardcore PC technician if he can connect a hdmi cable between his video card and his TV and push "big picture" on steam's interface. You're the specialist journalists, you're the ones that should teach your audience those amazing tricks, not craft artificial dumbness to match a pre-constructed audience stereotype, salvo bitch and moan when the real audience congregates on a forum like this one and mocks the entire game reporting industry

Just because someone plays videogames and makes a living reviewing them, that also means the individual is supposed to own a PC, review games on a PC and should also be "master of the HDMI-cable"? Wow.

I review games and have friends who do the same. Very few of them seem interested in doing reviews of PC games. I don´t know why, but I´m kind of the same. When I was in my 20s, I had energy and time to muck about with PCs. After a while I gave up and stuck to my consoles, Mac and retro stuff.

Would be interesting to know if this is something common to more than my network of friends. Luckily, Steam is increasingly overflowing with Mac ports.

 

[balohna]

You want hyperbole?

Those games are all extremely different and could be called "near perfect" for various reasons. I find Destructoid to be one of the most balanced and unbiased outlets for reviews. The staff may have individual preferences/biases, but there is clearly a wide swathe of opinions and no clear editorial direction toward favouring any specific platforms or games.

 

[NotMyRealName]

It's really obvious half the time, like when Game Grumps and Two Best Friends both gave a great "preview" of Shovel Knight.

But you are correct that they don't implicitly share if there is a conflict of interest.

Shovel Knight is a kickstarter. Where on Earth would they find the money to bribe people with?

 

[PolarGamer]

Kane & Lynch.

Never forget.

I've stopped caring about almost all publications after that one.

I once met a girl who was a real bastard. I now stopped caring about all girls.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Shovel Knight is a kickstarter. Where on Earth would they find the money to bribe people with?

yep, more than likely they gave out some keys to different people.

Just because someone plays videogames and makes a living reviewing them, that also means the individual is supposed to own a PC, review games on a PC and should also be "master of the HDMI-cable"? Wow.

I review games and have friends who do the same. Very few of them seem interested in doing reviews of PC games. I don´t know why, but I´m kind of the same. When I was in my 20s, I had energy and time to muck about with PCs. After a while I gave up and stuck to my consoles, Mac and retro stuff.

Would be interesting to know if this is something common to more than my network of friends. Luckily, Steam is increasingly overflowing with Mac ports.

 

[wotta]

I just don't understand how someone cares enough to take the time to write a post like this but doesn't care enough to google a little bit and find all of the investigative reports done in gaming, from Simon Parkin on the links between shooters and real-life gun manufacturers to Andrew McMillen on Team Bondi and many more. And at risk of shilling my own site's work, how are you not aware of Kotaku's reports on LucasArts and Silicon Knights and Aliens: Colonial Marines? If you want to complain that there's not enough investigation in gaming, sure, I won't argue there. But to say there's none just makes you sound ignorant. At least try to do your research.

Other industries have examples of investigative journalism everyday, what we have is few and far between. I agree there is 'some' and I apologise for using the wrong word to describe how I feel about this industry. But the fact is that journalists are far to scared to upset anyone, hence the reason why these stories appear more on GAF than on any other website.

 

[PolarGamer]

Master race alert.

 

[Mackins]

Would love to know how other people feel about the above?

You've got my vote, I fully agree. I see a lot of sites even copying GAF threads.

 

[TechnicPuppet]

Is it so hard to believe people are excited by TF, it's awesome. Near everyone who plays it thinks it's awesome and have done from when they laid eyes on it.

The beta created a level of hysteria I have never seen before with people clamouring to get a shot and paying near the full price of a game for a key. Titanfall is something special, I think the fact it is missing from some platforms is the causing some weird reactions.

 

[Nihilistic Monk]

What world do you live in?

One where Journos like Rich Stanton get ass drunk on twitter and expose that this sort of shit happens.

There was another rumble about some dude that works for IGN I believe came out the same time as the whole GMA award tweet fiasco as well.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Is it so hard to believe people are excited by TF, it's awesome. Near everyone who plays it thinks it's awesome and have done from when they laid eyes on it.

The beta created a level of hysteria I have never seen before with people clamouring to get a shot and paying near the full price of a game for a key. Titanfall is something special, I think the fact it is missing from some platforms is the causing some weird reactions.

Play more games. Hearthstone had people paying 100s for keys. That game is f2p.

 

[DoktorEvil]

Why is it that there are no proper investigative journalists in the gaming industry?

I mean can anyone name one site that properly gets behind the scenes and break stories that matter, for instance wouldn't it be nice if someone could find out the real story behind the MS and EA deal?

In my opinion all sites are far too scared to upset PR's and it needs to stop. They need to start doing their job properly and not care who they upset. How can you call yourself a journalist if you take "no comment" for an answer?

I just can't stand the way journalists pander to PR and Publishers. All they ever seem to do is gush the praises of games (yeah I get it they are gamers too). But when do any of them actually bring us news that matters?

Look at every site out there today? If you can find a site that's got different stories from the other then good on you. It's a copy and paste industry with no proper reporting. There are more breaking stories on GAF than anywhere else. There is more real information on otherwise hidden details on GAF than anywhere else. This is a fact. Investigative Journalism in the gaming industry does not exist and it's a real shame.

Disclaimer: I am not a journalist, nor someone with deep industry knowledge

Having said that, I'll give this question a try.

My theory is that if there was any kind of investigative journalism into video games and the industry, the OEMs and the Publishers wouldn't allow it.
Why? Because then the somewhat mutual relationship between the industry to market games and the industry to make them would have multiple conflicts of interest.

It is my opinion that magazines and other forms of journalism exist to help to end user figure out the details of their hobby more. He/she can find out further details, industry happenings, and other kinds of goodies unable to discover when making a buying decision. Nintendo Power was the first games magazine that said, "hey we only care about our console and our software, buy our stuff it's all awesome". You never heard a truly negative thing about Nintendo at large when they were publishing magazines, did you? That's because they used the magazine as a vehicle to market their control of the market.

Fast forward to today, and the fact that there are dozens of journalism sites and blogs and LPers, all for the purpose of entertaining and informing, means that information is democratized.

Do you care about labor practices in the games industry, or do you care about the beta of Titanfall? They pander because they know their audiences, thus they reaffirm a belief that had already existed. The belief that people only care about titles and franchises and software.

We're not the target demo of most journalistic endeavors, because we openly seek out the knowledge from direct sources.

 

[TechnicPuppet]

Play more games. Hearthstone had people paying 100s for keys. That game is f2p.

That's why I said I have never seen before. I only like games I can play with a mouse or a control pad.

 

[DoktorEvil]

Shovel Knight is a kickstarter. Where on Earth would they find the money to bribe people with?

You don't think there could be a deal in place where the LPers get a piece of revenue based on aggregate sales?

 

[Mackins]

After witnessing TitanFall first hand this morning, I do think the hype is grossly inflated. It's a good, solid, fun game, it's not revolutionary, ground breaking or the second coming of Christ as many would have you believe.

Some aspects were better than CoD, calling in Titans is cool and stomping on the other team is enjoyable but other aspects are worse. It's basically all out carnage and devoid of tactics which I like in a game. I think it would grow boring very fast.

I think people are just getting caught up in the hype and I would like to ask why some people think it's so special?

 

[RealityPales]

I once met a girl who was a real bastard. I now stopped caring about all girls.

Girls and Game Journalists. Totally same thing.

 

[U-R]

Just because someone plays videogames and makes a living reviewing them, that also means the individual is supposed to own a PC, review games on a PC and should also be "master of the HDMI-cable"? Wow.

"I do movie reviews, but don't ask me about this Kubrick dude, I'm not into Russian cinema."

Edit: To clarify, because i don't want to sound offensive: you're entitled to not knowing anything about PC gaming, albeit that makes you not a videogame expert to say the least, but you're not entitled to compare a PC version of a game to a console one based on random stereotypes.

 

[eliochip]

Girls and Game Journalists. Totally same thing.

Not true. They never give me a 10

 

[RealityPales]

Not true. They never give me a 10

 

[Bl4ckSunsh1n3]

The problem with the games media is a lot of them seem very ignorant of the technical aspect behind games. I'm sure fairly few of them understand things such as SSS, varying types of AA, Global Illumination, Ambient Occlusion etc etc. I mean fuck some of them don't even see the difference between 30 and 60 fps yet they expect us to hang onto their hollow words without really understanding what it is that they are seeing.

The is the main reason why I don't pay any attention to gaming journalism at all. If I want information, I want it from people who truly understand what they are talking about.

 

[Vizzeh]

Not true. They never give me a 10

Mainstream media probably detect the faltering/stagnant of COD and need another mainstream media clickbait for their advertising revenue. I suspect gaming jounalists are instructed to hype games like titanfall.

Unfortunately for us, the 1-2 games a year fifa/madden and cod crew are likely watering down what even core/hardcore gamers want and were used too. Its all about the benjamins

 

[A-V-B]

i agree, it was an anomaly. not that it happened, but that it was exposed ...

assuming that the one time someone's actually caught with their hand in the cookie jar demonstrates how otherwise no one's stealing cookies is pretty naive. as in, maybe they've just gotten better at it?...

Which is how these things evolve, btw... not specifically the video game industry, but any system. Life has evolved to learn from failures and get smarter, stronger, faster. In these particular systems where PR is important (and where the public generally doesn't develop new techniques like intelligent organisms, being dependent on super-slow-burn generational defense mechanisms,) if you get caught, you temporarily lower yourself in status to avoid being neutralized by both the public and your competitors, then you analyze what went wrong and don't do the things that got you caught. Your old processes resume, upgraded, and you survive. Just smart business. If these places didn't successfully do it at some level, they simply wouldn't be around today. Has nothing to do with being nice-nice or not nice-nice to consumers, and everything with not dying. It's ruthless out there.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

If this thread has allowed me to discover anything about the Gaming Press and myself, it's that I'm not the person the Gaming Press are actively targeting and writing for anymore. I understand that now.

When I was younger Magazines were the only real form of writing available and the only people who would buy them were Gaming Enthusiasts, so they were targeted at them (as they should be).
15 years later and there's been a sea change within the industry in regards to demographics and I'm no longer the one that needs to be informed. It's the casual gamer. Whereas Gaming Enthusiasts will gather on sites like NeoGAF to share news and information they have datamined from various sources. That's where the critique and discussion of games happen, between the gamers themselves and not within reviews on Gaming Media websites.

 

[DoktorEvil]

If this thread has allowed me to discover anything about the Gaming Press and myself, it's that I'm not the person the Gaming Press are actively targeting and writing for anymore. I understand that now.

When I was younger Magazines were the only real form of writing available and the only people who would buy them were Gaming Enthusiasts, so they were targeted at them (as they should be).
15 years later and there's been a sea change within the industry in regards to demographics and I'm no longer the one that needs to be informed. It's the casual gamer. Whereas Gaming Enthusiasts will gather on sites like NeoGAF to share news and information they have datamined from various sources. That's where the critique and discussion of games happen, between the gamers themselves and not within reviews on Gaming Media websites.

Yup. It's weird to be the demo that isn't directly marketed for when it comes to the medium.

Which raises the question: how many people are casual gamers?

Edit: I've never felt comfortable with the labels and self segregation we have for having gaming as a hobby.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

Yeah, I can relate to that. What makes me less casual and more enthusiastic than someone else. What is a casual gamer? Was I considered a casual gamer back when I was 10-15 years old? It's strange.

 

[DoktorEvil]

Yeah, I can relate to that. What makes me less casual and more enthusiastic than someone else. What is a casual gamer? Was I considered a casual gamer back when I was 10-15 years old? It's strange.

Considering that to be called a gamer, you have to have spend money on a console and on games.

That was only the real barrier I've have saw as to how you become a gamer.

 

[angrygnat]

I've learned that the gaming media is by in large in the tank for this company or that company. Whether it be because they are being paid to say nice things, or that they are pandering for access. It's all tainted now. I use Gaf for most of my pre purchase gaming research. You can usually find normal people that will give an honest opinion about gameplay on YouTube. Otherwise, the mainstream gaming media are pretty worthless.

 

[SmartBase]

I've learned that the gaming media is by in large in the tank for this company or that company. Whether it be because they are being paid to say nice things, or that they are pandering for access. It's all tainted now. I use Gaf for most of my pre purchase gaming research. You can usually find normal people that will give an honest opinion about gameplay on YouTube. Otherwise, the mainstream gaming media are pretty worthless.

Agree with this but what really gets me is how few people in gaming media even know what they're talking about, usually anything regarding technical aspects of games or the hardware they're on.