Support NeoGAF

[Sinoox]

You're not alone, we lost a lot of talent from last generation to add to things. The jump to this generation isn't visibly as big as previous generations so I was hoping there'd be some innovation with how we experience games what with the success of the Wii. That didn't happen, but it is happening with virtual reality at least.

I think it's just going to take time and consoles just don't have that with their short lifespans. So I've migrated to PC gaming and handhelds to satisfy what I expect out of video games today because god knows the PS4 and Xbox aren't offering anything meaningful from the glimpses Sony and Microsoft have given of their futures. There are a few games here and there that interest me, but not on a level that gets me excited. My feelings may be wrong though, things could completely flip come E3, but so far the gaming industry is very lackluster with the direction it's currently heading in. I think its gotten so large that everyone is afraid to take chances and there needs to be some changes.

 

[Concept17]

While premature, I can relate to the feeling. While I was impressed with some of the technical feats of infamous... It just doesn't seem like its enough. Again, perhaps a bit premature, but at the same time just today I was discussing future releases with some friends and how it was concerning/odd to think that even as far as next year we'd be seeing 'big name titles' on previous gen still.

Think about that... Assuming it happens, that's 1.5-2 years into what many are assuming to be a fairly short cycle that we're still seeing cross platform or just old platform period. Not exactly what I'm looking for these days.

That being said, I also feel graphics just aren't enough anymore. While we're not at photo realism or anything, I still feel we're getting to a diminishing returns situation. Couple that with a lack of revolutionary (or even baby stepping) gameplay evolution.... It just feels similar.

I donno. I feel ya.



Actually I feel this kind of comment and thought process is nonsense and I've been saying it for awhile. "Yay more graphics! MOAR POWA" Unless its the favorite darling of a title... Then its all about the gameplay. Expecting devs to fall back to 'better graphics = better game' is nonsense and frankly I'm tired of practically everyone supporting it.

I'm saying you can't expect new hardware to equal new gameplay. If you go into a new generation expecting everything to be completely fresh and new, you've got the wrong hobby. And I don't think everyone supports it, as I hear people complain about this very thing in every other 'next-gen' related thread around here.

 

[Toparaman]

If Second Son didn't impress you, maybe you're more of an art style sorta fella? Have you looked at Mario Kart 8's latest videos? Reaaaally pleasing to the eye, and arguably, the first Wii U game that really -feels- like a generation leap from its Wii prequel.

This is me. The PS4 exclusives look clean and all, but it's the Wii U exclusives that are impressing me. The latest Bayonetta 2 trailer made my jaw drop.

 

[nded]

I'd give it a few more years.

 

[Fjordson]

I haven't been massively impressed either, though I will say that Killzone and Infamous look really nice on PS4.

But this gen ain't exactly over yet. Give it time.

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

I'm impressed by The Order, Ryse, Quantum Break, and Second Son.

damn I wish I could have played the order and quantum break.

 

[Jagsrock]

Graphically games look prettier than ever but I think it's fair to say that many of the new games are a little too familiar gameplay wise.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Graphically games look prettier than ever but I think it's fair to say that many of the new games are a little too familiar gameplay wise.

I totally expected that.

Beefier systems don't equal beefier imaginations.

 

[nkarafo]

The graphical leap is the smallest yet with this generation.

Lets compare the older generation leaps with some early games they had to offer:

3rd to 4th: From 8bit consoles to 16 bit. Parallax Scrolling, huge and numerous sprites, cartoon like animation and detail. Early Genesis games like Ghouls n Ghosts were a huge leap compared to anything on NES/SMS.

4th to 5th: From 2D sprites and backgrounds to fully 3D games with texture mapping. Probably the biggest generation leap. Any early PS1 game (Wipeout, OMG) made SNES/Genesis look like cheap toys.

5th to 6th: 3D graphics on PS1/SAT/N64 were "serviceable" but those prerendered FMVs looked much better. Remember when you dreamed about games that look as good? Early PS2/GC/XBOX games (MGS2, Rogue Leader 2 and DOA3) looked even better than most prerendered FMVs on PS1. With this generation the consoles even managed to completely cover the huge gap between consoles/arcades. So it was another huge generation leap.

6th to 7nth: At first i didn't feel the big difference but that's only because i didn't have an HD TV. While the graphics didn't look that much better than some of the later GC/XBOX games, it was the HD resolution that made the huge difference. These consoles brought the HD era so the not so great graphics on early games are excused.

7th to 8th? I don't know. I don't see anything big. Games only look slightly better. And there is absolutely no difference in frame rates or resolution. Games still run at 30fps and the resolution is still 720p most of the time. Heck even the WiiU looks very competitive to the "next gen" consoles with offerings like Mario Kart 8.

 

[KongRudi]

Is those pics supposed to show the difference? Honestly, I really don't see a generational leap anywhere in those pics.

We need better specs.. (on your glasses)...

Compressed jpeg's don't do justice to Infamous - both Infamous 2 and Second Son, loose to much details in compression.
But you can still see pretty clearly a much more detailed characther-model, enviroment, etc.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

damn I wish I could have played the order and quantum break.

my edited post

I'm impressed by The Order, Ryse, Quantum Break, and Second Son visually.

On the gameplay side? Meh. Still holding out hope for Quantum Break to do some cool stuff with the time powers though.

 

[maneil99]

The graphical leap is the smallest yet with this generation.

At first i didn't felt the big difference but that's only because i didn't have an HD TV. While the graphics didn't look that much better than some of the later GC/XBOX games, it was the HD resolution that made the huge difference. These consoles brought the HD era so the not so great graphics on early games are excused.

7th to 8th? I don't know. I don't see anything big. Games only look slightly better. And there is absolutely no difference in frame rates or resolution. Games still run at 30fpd and the resolution is still 720p most of the time. Heck even the WiiU looks very competitive to the "next gen" consoles with offerings like Mario Kart 8.

So you are discrediting the PS4 when you only own a Xbox One?

 

[blankempathy]

People expecting giant leaps over time like the ps3/360 had are going to be disappointed. The 360/ps3 started the era's of hd gaming not to mention the ps3 was hard to program for. The ps4/x1 are already easier to program for out the game. I think we'll be hitting the peak of what these consoles can do sooner then most people expect. Hell look at the trouble Nintendo had and admitted to having to developing games in HD. Look how fast they've gotten the hang of programming for their system. Its only been a little over a year and they're putting out pretty impressive stuff.

 

[Billen]

So, I've had WiiU since day 1, PS4 since day 1 and I plan to get XB1 day 1 if Microsoft some day remember that Sweden exist.
Anyhow, I've played on an import XB1 and today I think I've seen the games that is said to really show off the generational leap on all platforms.

I finally played Second Son for the first time yesterday, which DF said was the best looking game on any platform in their technical article, and I thought I would finally come away really impressed.

But no, I was not impressed, like at all.

I get that games will get more impressive over time and Naughty Dog still haven't shown their next gen stuff which might be amazing, but so far this has easily been the most underwelming start of a new generation for as long as I can remember.

Games still look about the same, most games still run at 30fps and we basically still play the same exact games as before since nothing has happened on the gameplay front.

ZombiU had some novel ideas with the Gamepad screen which I really liked but WiiU sadly isn't delivering the visual leap I'm looking for when entering a new generation. Off TV Play at 60fps without lag is probably what I'm most impressed about so far, but it's on WiiU again. PS4 and XB1 has the power to impress, I think, but so far I'm just not impressed at all with the gameplay or performance there. Also, isn't it annoying that we see far more 60fps games on WiiU when it's supposed to be more like a last gen console technically?


Am I the only one with this feeling?

Are you a PC gamer? If so, that could explain it.

 

[maneil99]

People expecting giant leaps over time like the ps3/360 had are going to be disappointed. The 360/ps3 started the era's of hd gaming not to mention the ps3 was hard to program for. The ps4/x1 are already easier to program for out the game. I think we'll be hitting the peak of what these consoles can do sooner then most people expect.

x86 = peak faster, common misconstruction. dGPU, HUMA, 6 cores and increase ram efficiency and os size reduction are all factors

 

[AC!D]

All these people saying it takes a year or two for the really impressive games to come out and show what the next gen can do, why buy a next gen machine now?

I just feel there is no gaming experience on the new consoles I can't enjoy on the 360/ps3. Minus the ever so slightly improved graphics of course.

Also the people saying launch games always suck can't have been around for the SNES and PSone launches. Shit was amazing and I have high standards accordingly.

 

[justsomeguy]

You don't see a difference between this

and this?

first one has shadows of the player ? ;-)

Am I the only one with this feeling?

How old are you, Op? I've found as i got older i am a loooot less excited by "the shiny new tech" because I've seen it all before.

We're no longer seeing the kind of mind blowing jump we got when Mario 64 launched, we're just getting "prettier versions of the same". Also there is no sense of surprise and wonder as for this gen we have been blanket media bombed - youtube, twitter, blogs, there is no sense of surprise any more. I reckon VR is the next big WOW! tech, but only if it's backed up by truly immersive games.

 

[Jonm1010]

You know I don't own an Xbone and I haven't played the game in person but hd videos of Ryse are pretty impressive in many instances.

I think the fact that it's not quite 1080p and was poorly reviewed have made people forget just how good it looked in places.

Surely the op can come away respecting a game like that right?


With all that said I do personally see this gen as a bridge between last gen and the likely 4k and oculus centered next gen.

 

[ffdgh]

Gotta give these things a bit more time. Things should look amazing in the coming months/years.

 

[NewGame]

The WiiU did some novel things but didn't really produce a standout title with all the mechanics of the system, even the new titles like Mario Kart seem to do little than reintroduce old games to a new platform and put a horn on it.

Vita suffered a similar issue with Tearaway only recently being released, which in itself is a good game it's just that for some it comes across as... average. It's like the NintendoLand of the Vita! HD ports of PS2 titles can only do so much...

PS4/Xbone don't have anything that stands out as >>>GAMECHANGER<<< thus far unless you count the weird stuff people see in the Playroom or how Xbox Live players change their name to 'Xbox Sign Out' so when people are voice chatting to you they get angry. So far the difference between a next-gen and a cross-gen title is... um... the name!

3DS! Okay this is the standout console for me. Streetpass is like GOTG or whatever, there's nothing more fantastic than streetpassing a bunch of people and Hitler/Elmo/HomerSimpson Miis. Trading in-game information like highscores, ghost replays, Animal Crossing houses and digital gifts is the most interesting and unique mechanic to come from the 8th generation. The 3DS's library is the most interesting and varied of the lot with more games to come.

 

[JordanN]

Why do I have a feeling the people saying the leap is small or there's no change in resolution, have no idea what they're talking about?

I understand being impressed by something is an opinion, but when say you stuff like "resolution is the same", it's obvious you barely follow gaming at all.

There are plenty of papers/articles out there showcasing what the new consoles can do. How about going through each and every article and disproving them?

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

6th to 7nth: At first i didn't feel the big difference but that's only because i didn't have an HD TV. While the graphics didn't look that much better than some of the later GC/XBOX games, it was the HD resolution that made the huge difference. These consoles brought the HD era so the not so great graphics on early games are excused.

Gears of War is what made me "BELIEVE" in the the "next gen" back in the OG xbox/PS2/Gamecube days.

That game made me go all out to try and get a 360. I don't remember when Gears of War was released in that generation though.

Gotta give these things a bit more time. Things should look amazing in the coming months/years.

Looks so good....I want a wii U just for this and bayonetta 2

 

[MormaPope]

I totally expected that.

Beefier systems don't equal beefier imaginations.

Nah, that's actually the case usually. Of course not every designer or developer will keep "innovating" as time goes on, but games that couldn't be done on past gen systems due to game design alone has always been a thing.

Way too soon to say if game design en masse is getting stale and crusty for this gen. As of now though there is nothing design wise that's earth shattering.

Gears of War is what made me "BELIEVE" in the the "next gen" back in the OG xbox/PS2/Gamecube days.

That game made me go all out to try and get a 360. I don't remember when Gears of War was released in that generation though.

Around fall/early fall in 2006. One year after the 360 launched.

 

[blankempathy]

x86 = peak faster, common misconstruction. dGPU, HUMA, 6 cores and increase ram efficiency and os size reduction are all factors

I didn't mean the system would peak faster I mean't devs are most likely going to figure out all the tricks to optimize their games quicker.

 

[wazoo]

7th to 8th? I don't know. I don't see anything big. Games only look slightly better. And there is absolutely no difference in frame rates or resolution. Games still run at 30fps and the resolution is still 720p most of the time. Heck even the WiiU looks very competitive to the "next gen" consoles with offerings like Mario Kart 8.

PC games run at 720p 30fps for a decade. What is on screen is still quite different now.

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

I didn't mean the system would peak faster I mean't devs are most likely going to figure out all the tricks to optimize their games quicker.

well there you go. Gotta give these consoles a year to be fair!

 

[Fredrik]

If Second Son didn't impress you, maybe you're more of an art style sorta fella? Have you looked at Mario Kart 8's latest videos? Reaaaally pleasing to the eye, and arguably, the first Wii U game that really -feels- like a generation leap from its Wii prequel.

MK8 looks amazing and it's definitely a day 1 title for me. The problem with WiiU though is that you always end up thinking they're impressive for a WiiU title and not for a nextgen title. It's like we pretend that PS4 and XB1 don't exist. That said, I really love that so many WiiU games manage to look a generation ahead of Wii titles while still manage to run at 60fps. That is not the case on PS4/XB1 right now.

 

[nkarafo]

Gears of War is what made me "BELIEVE" in the the "next gen" back in the OG xbox/PS2/Gamecube days.

That game made me go all out to try and get a 360. I don't remember when Gears of War was released in that generation though.

Yeah, but it was released a little later.

Gotta give these things a bit more time. Things should look amazing in the coming months/years.

Funny thing is that this is on WiiU. Which, technologically, is like a last gen PS3/360 console. Which proves OP's point.

 

[Rad-]

You don't see a difference between this

and this?

And we're only 5 months into this gen. And the above is an open world game made by a 100ish-man team.

There's definitely a difference here but not a difference like we saw from PS2 to PS3/360. Not anywhere near that level.

And it's pretty funny that the first picture has player shadowing and the second doesn't... Or wait maybe it does but its drawn so weirdly there.

 

[wazoo]

3DS! Okay this is the standout console for me. Streetpass is like GOTG or whatever, there's nothing more fantastic than streetpassing a bunch of people and Hitler/Elmo/HomerSimpson Miis. Trading in-game information like highscores, ghost replays, Animal Crossing houses and digital gifts is the most interesting and unique mechanic to come from the 8th generation. The 3DS's library is the most interesting and varied of the lot with more games to come.

What is so game changing in the 3DS ?

I see the same games as before, which is fine if you like them.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

I don't want to say diminishing returns, but diminishing returns.

 

[FTF]

You don't see a difference between this

and this?

And we're only 5 months into this gen. And the above is an open world game made by a 100ish-man team.

Seriously, I've seen it a few times now in this thread and by apophis and others in one of the MK8 threads...and people who say SS is just infamous 2 at 1080p and not that great looking are either blind or insane (or lying). People may not like games like SS, Ryse or KZ:SF, and sure that's fine I get it, but to say they're not a graphical showcase and big jump over last gen is just flat out wrong.

 

[wazoo]

That said, I really love that so many WiiU games manage to look a generation ahead of Wii titles while still manage to run at 60fps. That is not the case on PS4/XB1 right now.

WiiU succeeds in looking better than 2001 tech. PS3 was doing the same in 2006, and both are equal in power, so what is the surprise ?

 

[CaptainGyro]

I have found it to be pretty meh so far too.
I was pretty disappointed to find that even stuff like the Lego Marvel game was only 30 fps on ps4

 

[nOoblet16]

Expecting new gameplay with new hardware is kind of stupid really. Very few games actually innovate or invent a whole new style, most that you should expect is refinement of existing gameplay rather than expecting something completely new.

You have to realise that gameplay in most games last generation wasn't hardware limited, hence you won't really see a massive change in gameplay with better hardware anymore.

There's definitely a difference here but not a difference like we saw from PS2 to PS3/360. Not anywhere near that level.

And it's pretty funny that the first picture has player shadowing and the second doesn't... Or wait maybe it does but its drawn so weirdly there.

1) You need to look at how launch PS360 games looked.

2) You will never see a direct difference like PS2 to PS3 again because PS2 games didn't use shaders, more than half of the tech used in game these days didn't even exist as a concept back then. While when it comes to PS3 to PS4, it was already possible to implement most of the real time rendering techniques in PS3. Plus the fact that textures in PS2 games had to be very basic but when it came to PS3/360 games they were already quite good. The differences comes from a higher degree of precision, resolution and consistency rather than implementing something that was completely absent in previous generation. To my eyes the difference is much more apparent than PS2 to PS3.

 

[nkarafo]

but to say they're not a graphical showcase and big jump over last gen is just flat out wrong.

SS looks only slightly better than GTA5. In fact, there are aspects in GTA5 that look better compared to SS and you also have to add that GTA5 has a larger, more busy environment with more things going on.

 

[Creaking]

Yes OP, you're too impatient. Most developers haven't even had their first swings yet.

SS looks only slightly better than GTA5. In fact, there are aspects in GTA5 that look better compared to SS and you also have to add that GTA5 has a larger, more busy environment with more things going on.

GTAV is much less consistent, character faces look great, roads generally look great, but then you get some godawful nasty textures as found on the concrete structures that surround the exterior of the airport, descending into the water. They're very big and have extremely muddy textures. That's just one example that's stuck with me for a while though, I haven't played GTAV in a few weeks. Oh, plus the game runs like poopzilla. I've never seen inFamous dip below thirty. Most of the time it runs above that.

 

[maneil99]

The fact that that is in game less then 6 months into a gen makes me wonder what was expected.

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

Expecting new gameplay with new hardware is kind of stupid really.

Not necessarily. Innovative new gameplay just depends on creativity at the end of the day. So to expect it isn't stupid, but a worthy expectation as gamers.

There are many indie and small studio titles that exemplify new and creative gameplay.

 

[Darkman M]

I feel the same right now, but i also realize that it's only been about 5 months. Things are surely to get get better in the coming years.

 

[FTF]

There's definitely a difference here but not a difference like we saw from PS2 to PS3/360. Not anywhere near that level.

And it's pretty funny that the first picture has player shadowing and the second doesn't...

What are the PS3/360 games 5 months into release that you can use as examples to support this?

 

[Milestoned]

There's definitely a difference here but not a difference like we saw from PS2 to PS3/360. Not anywhere near that level.

And it's pretty funny that the first picture has player shadowing and the second doesn't... Or wait maybe it does but its drawn so weirdly there.

The second one has player shadowing, too. It's just not as visible since Delsin is standing in the dark.

 

[MormaPope]

Expecting new gameplay with new hardware is kind of stupid really. Very few games actually innovate or invent a whole new style, most that you should expect is refinement of existing gameplay rather than expecting something completely new.

You have to realise that gameplay in most games last generation wasn't hardware limited, hence you won't really see a massive change in gameplay with better hardware anymore.

N64: Mario 64
Xbox: Halo 1
PS2: GTA3
Xbox 360: Gears of War

I hope you're arguing that assertion is time based, because gameplay innovations or trends have been drastic in the past, absolutely.

 

[Goddard]

Yes something is wrong with you. So sick of these rhetorical questions in OPs.

 

[impact]

7th to 8th? I don't know. I don't see anything big. Games only look slightly better. And there is absolutely no difference in frame rates or resolution. Games still run at 30fps and the resolution is still 720p most of the time. Heck even the WiiU looks very competitive to the "next gen" consoles with offerings like Mario Kart 8.

What are you even saying? This is complete bullshit, unless you're just talking about Wii U.

 

[zeopower6]

It's really too soon to say with this generation. I mean didn't it just barely lose the 'next gen' label and become 'this gen' not too long ago? (and for some, it's still 'next gen')

 

[SuomiDude]

We need better specs.. (on your glasses)...

Compressed jpeg's don't do justice to Infamous - both Infamous 2 and Second Son, loose to much details in compression.
But you can still see pretty clearly a much more detailed characther-model, enviroment, etc.

But he said there really isn't a generation leap to be seen. It's like last gen when you compared high end PC games to their console counterparts. The difference was there, but there was no generation leap. When we go from last gen to next gen, people expect a real generation leap.

 

[TropicanaTwista]

So, I've had WiiU since day 1, PS4 since day 1 and I plan to get XB1 day 1 if Microsoft some day remember that Sweden exist.
Anyhow, I've played on an import XB1 and today I think I've seen the games that is said to really show off the generational leap on all platforms.

I finally played Second Son for the first time yesterday, which DF said was the best looking game on any platform in their technical article, and I thought I would finally come away really impressed.

But no, I was not impressed, like at all.

I get that games will get more impressive over time and Naughty Dog still haven't shown their next gen stuff which might be amazing, but so far this has easily been the most underwelming start of a new generation for as long as I can remember.

Games still look about the same, most games still run at 30fps and we basically still play the same exact games as before since nothing has happened on the gameplay front.

ZombiU had some novel ideas with the Gamepad screen which I really liked but WiiU sadly isn't delivering the visual leap I'm looking for when entering a new generation. Off TV Play at 60fps without lag is probably what I'm most impressed about so far, but it's on WiiU again. PS4 and XB1 has the power to impress, I think, but so far I'm just not impressed at all with the gameplay or performance there. Also, isn't it annoying that we see far more 60fps games on WiiU when it's supposed to be more like a last gen console technically?


Am I the only one with this feeling?

If you really think Infamous SS and infamous 2 look the same, I think you might have to get your eyes checked.

 

[Eusis]

N64: Mario 64
Xbox: Halo 1
PS2: GTA3
Xbox 360: Gears of War

I hope you're arguing that assertion is time based, because gameplay innovations or trends have been drastic in the past, absolutely.

The last two examples do kind of highlight that you need to give it more time though. It comes with hardware, sure, but it can take up to a year or even two for it to show. Maybe Arkham Knight will do something big there, or Witcher 3 will set the tone for RPGs going forward.

 

[Snapshot King]

There's definitely a difference here but not a difference like we saw from PS2 to PS3/360. Not anywhere near that level.

And it's pretty funny that the first picture has player shadowing and the second doesn't... Or wait maybe it does but its drawn so weirdly there.

It's also running at more than double the resolution with a better framerate. Once devs stop caring about performance I'm sure we'll get the eye candy back that some of you crave at the expense of playability.