You're nuts dude, the image quality in GTA V is harsh as fuck. Second Son blows GTA V out of the water on a technical and visual level.
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Is something wrong with me? I'm not impressed by this generation.
- Thread starter Fredrik
- Start date
You're nuts dude, the image quality in GTA V is harsh as fuck. Second Son blows GTA V out of the water on a technical and visual level.
ShinMaruku
Member
I will say give it time. But also note that management in this endeavor is sub par at the moment and it may take some time for the truly great things to come out and also remember the development scene this gen from the last is much different far more indies who give two fucks about graphics and a bit less diverse pool of talent by studios because we have lost a few and some of them have gone indie.
So there is nothing wrong with you, but you need to look at the grand scheme and see why it looks disappointing.
So there is nothing wrong with you, but you need to look at the grand scheme and see why it looks disappointing.
Absolutely. I'm only arguing against the "new hardware won't equal new and interesting game design" assertions.
KillerDark
Member
Games definitely don't look the same, gonna have to disagree with you there. That being said there hasn't been anything that impressive yet... But that's how it always is at the start.
xDUMPWEEDx
Banned
I'll be sticking with PC/PS3 for now. I currently have no interest in PS4/XBO. Once Borderlands 3 comes out however...
Wonderful 101's got you covered:
Also Second Son is a big leap from the other infamous games graphically too.
I'm new be nice
Member
I've been gaming on nice PC hardware for over a decade but I still think something tailor made for a specific console can look highly impressive. Infamous looks wonderful, 780ti in comparison and all.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
this part of his comment (below) makes me think he wasn't speaking with a time base in mind...so I'm with you on your response.
Hoho for breakfast
Member
No nothing is wrong with you.
Graphically I'm not worried. Infamous was fairly impressive to me, and you have to consider this is a game coming out not even 5 months after the console launched. It's only going to get better, just like it always does. In four years or so (maybe even a couple years) Infamous will look dated.
Gameplay wise everything I've seen so far is pretty basic but for that too something will come along probably within the next year that will feel much more "next gen" than what we've gotten so far.
Graphically I'm not worried. Infamous was fairly impressive to me, and you have to consider this is a game coming out not even 5 months after the console launched. It's only going to get better, just like it always does. In four years or so (maybe even a couple years) Infamous will look dated.
Gameplay wise everything I've seen so far is pretty basic but for that too something will come along probably within the next year that will feel much more "next gen" than what we've gotten so far.
Same.
I've been playing bioshock infinite and tomb raider maxed out, the witcher 2 near max, crysis 2 and 3 at near max and skyrim heavily graphically modded and I can still say there were moments I was in awe at the visuals playing killzone at launch.
Fredrik
Member
Is there multiplatform titles on WiiU??
Seriously though, I'm thinking about the first party offerings, where WiiU is a 60fps beast.
I'm actually suspecting that this is a strategy by Nintendo to push nextgen games to 60fps too, and with this:
1) lessen the visual gap seen today between WiiU and PS4/XB1
2) make the 60fps capable Off TV Play look nextgen compared to the 30fps capped Remote Play
Have you played BF4 on 360 or PS3 ? It looks dated . It was time to move on even if the step is small, at least we can have games who looks on par with middle range PC without bothering with Keyboard and Mouse. For the UI I think XOne looks more next gen than PS3. We have snap for lookin at a soccer match while playing and we will soon have snapped Skype.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
I'm sure you're not. I typically wait on systems until there's a killer app that I want to buy.
in fact my track record on day 1 consists of:
Atari Jaguar
Sega Saturn
Sega Dreamcast
PS4
Vita
So in terms of hooking market successes, my early adoption % kinda sucks.
My wait a year+ list OTOH:
NES
TG-16
Genesis
SNES
PS1
N64
PS2
PS3
Xbox 360
Gameboy
Gameboy Color
Gameboy Advance
Gameboy Advance SP
Nintendo DS
PSP
Wii
Gamecube
Different games sold me on the year+ lists and while the newer graphics were nice, they in of themselves aren't really incentive to buy until there's something that looks cool that I really want to play.
This isn't a new phenomenon at all. It's been trucking along for years like this.
pretty done
Member
PS4 and XB1 would be outputting 60fps if everything was 720p like on Wii U.
Snapshot King
Member
To people that don't care about resolution or image quality, I can absolutely see why the current gen so far has been lackluster. We'll be trading that for better graphics quality and worse image quality soon enough, and as was pointed out before, games last gen weren't hardware limited in a lot of cases like they were going back into the older gens so we're going to see less dramatic jumps right away. But you hear about shit like Witcher 3 having landmasses triple the size of Skyrim, and the obvious jump in quality for Battlefields playercount, just give it time.
Guys, we're never going to have a generational leap in gameplay ever again without VR or some other external device. This much was obvious entering this generation, so I'm surprised so many are disappointed with it. What new gameplay concepts did you think they could do now that they couldn't on the PS3/360? It makes no sense.
As someone who was completely fed up with the SD Wii and crap framerates and draw distances in open world games on PS3/360 I have been delighted with this gen so far. Delighted.
As someone who was completely fed up with the SD Wii and crap framerates and draw distances in open world games on PS3/360 I have been delighted with this gen so far. Delighted.
In my opinion neither Gears 1 nor Halo 1 were innovations, they were refinement of existing mechanics. There was nothing in these two games that hadn't been seen before at all in different games (and I am including PC games here as well because we are talking innovation in gaming). An innovation would be something like MGS1 which was genre defining, or SOTC. These games were far and few.
nkarafo
Member
Yeah but not in a "generation leap" way.
More like a "PS2 vs original XBOX" kind of way.
I'm not saying there is no difference at all. I'm saying that the difference isn't as big to justify a generation leap.
Fredrik
Member
Playing Kameo on 360 was drool-worthy even on an SDTV, it was an amazing generation to be there day 1, almost as good as when Dreamcast arrived.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
Haha, Sega Dreamcast is the only console I bought Day 1 other than OG xbox (cause of Halo and in anticipation of jSRF)
Soul Calibur and Sonic Adventure Sold me on dreamcast. I remember seeing those games and being Blown away. Especially Soul Calibur.
Next E3 will be the one completely focused on games, not on selling the upcoming consoles, we will see both upgraded versions of games showed last year, like Witcher 3 with DX11 render, FFXV possibly with old-gen assets discarded or The Division(even if this is more plausible to get a downgrade), and newly announced games from developers known to push innovation not feasible on last-gen hardware (Naughty Dog, Media Molecule, ZeldaU).
I remember playing Resistance for Ps3 and thinking "man what is this shit did i really spent 600$ on something so unsurprising?", and i think we already got a bigger leap this time(inFamousSS was impossible on Ps3 or done with incredible compromises, same with BF4 multiplayer count).
I mean, like everyone else said, just give it time.
I remember playing Resistance for Ps3 and thinking "man what is this shit did i really spent 600$ on something so unsurprising?", and i think we already got a bigger leap this time(inFamousSS was impossible on Ps3 or done with incredible compromises, same with BF4 multiplayer count).
I mean, like everyone else said, just give it time.
First releases on a new generation of hardware are never overly impressive. Just look at Resistance 1 (PS3 launch game) to Resistance 3 (much prettier, and better too). I was just playing BioShock Infinite Burial at Sea Episode 2 this weekend, and that game is super pretty for a PS3 game! That's what you get from 7 years of learning. Give it time.
Now that all said, inFamous is crazy pretty. Sure it runs at ~30fps, but DAMN.
I don't think if any of us quite know the answer to that yet. In the early days of last generation, it was Assassin's Creed's traversal and Gears of War's cover system. (Yes I know Kill Switch created it, but GoW made it popular)
Now that all said, inFamous is crazy pretty. Sure it runs at ~30fps, but DAMN.
I don't think if any of us quite know the answer to that yet. In the early days of last generation, it was Assassin's Creed's traversal and Gears of War's cover system. (Yes I know Kill Switch created it, but GoW made it popular)
Something never seen before.
Snapshot King
Member
That's some serious revisionist history you're smoking there. The jump from 480p to 720p, on its own, is much smaller than 720p to 1080p (is GTA5 even native 720?) and that's ignoring the enormous jump in graphical quality and effects from GTA5 to Infamous.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
How exactly was Gears 1, Halo 1 and GTA3 not Genre defining respectively? Imo they REDEFINED thier genre on Consoles, thus defining them, Thus many games in the genre taking from them/copying them/inspired by them.
jadedm17
Member
This really. Yea the leaps will be smaller, but I'm blown away.
Killzone Shadowfall - while lacking in every other department imho - is a beautiful game, amazing attention to detail.
Battlefield 4 is just a damn spectacle to me too, I spent my first few hours blowing buildings up or being killed watching jets fly overhead.
Note : I'm a console gamer, so PS3/360 to PS4 has impressed me.
I don't get the Infamous love since, while great looking, its not impressed me. Framerate aside however GTA V made my jaw drop for a 360 title. Now for a PS4 version would be great.
JordanN
Banned
It's not just the resolution, Nintendo games are very simple.
Anyone can make a platformer or minigame collection run at 60fps. Not everyone can make a game like Ryse or Killzone be 60fps and it shows.
Fredrik
Member
Over-the-shoulder PC gamer, my wife is a PC gamer. But she mostly plays Skyrim and Diablo 3 etc, not Witcher, Crysis and the other impressive PC games.
1000 Branches
Banned
inFamous: Second Son is pretty much just inFamous but prettier though.
Sorry, but that is a stupid argument. it can me made for literally any sequel.
Anyway OP, I do agree that so far, this generation looks like a disappointingly low bump. But at the same time, some games are gorgeous lookers- Killzone: Shadow Fall, Ryse: Son of Rome, inFamous: Second Son, and for upcoming games, Mario Kart 8, The Witcher 3, and The Division all look amazing.
I don't think this generation will be as much of a leap as previous ones have been, but give it time, it'll be better than it is right now eventually.
But what does that have to do with console generations exactly? It just seems like people use it as an extra checkbox for why "this gen isn't that good", without it having any real meaning.
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
Coming from PC, infamous has impressed me. There are a few things I wish our pcs and consoles could move away from like sprite bushes and over use of normal mapping, but I have a feeling in the next year we are going to start seeing some truly amazing stuff.
Hoho for breakfast
Member
It clearly means different things to different people. It's a term I use very loosely, while others take it very seriously. I learned this with my first thread I made a couple weeks ago.
What I personally mean by "next gen gameplay" is gameplay that sets itself apart not necessarily by doing anything that could not be done before, but by doing something new/trend setting and/or particularly well. I'm very basically looking for a game that has the gameplay and the graphics to tell me next gen has arrived. It's almost more of a feeling or experience than an actual tangible thing.
For example had The Last Of Us come out now for PS4 and not PS3, it would have probably felt very "next gen" to me, even though it clearly could have been done (and in fact was!) on the PS3. I'd basically need the PS4 graphics with the same gameplay and it would have been the game I'm talking about.
EmptySpace
Banned
talk about counting the chicks before the eggs hatched.
the feeling should be there day 1?
gee, did you also make your conclusion on the 7th gen during 2005/6?
sometimes i just want to knock some sense into some people here by slapping them through the monitor.
the feeling should be there day 1?
gee, did you also make your conclusion on the 7th gen during 2005/6?
sometimes i just want to knock some sense into some people here by slapping them through the monitor.
Guess we'll agree to disagree. MGS1 isn't innovative when it comes to gameplay, Metal Gear 2 arguably has better sneaking gameplay, and MGS1's design is like Metal Gear 2's in a lot of ways. MGS1 has fantastic boss fights design wise, don't know if that's innovative though. MGS1 innovated when it came to narrative and storytelling though, no other game around that time/gen was as developed when it came to a game being completely voice acted.
We are at a point now in calculating power where new generations don't really add much to our basic repertuare of graphical or gameplay systems. It's completely up to the game designers and developers to push new envelopes of gameplay.
Some time ago, new console generations still offered clear new avenues to explore in terms of gameplay. In fact even earlier I might say that every new inch of processing power brought something new to the table in terms of gameplay. Those days are obviously long gone.
Large open fields, complex ai routines, destructible terrain, massive amounts of players etc, all of these have been possible long ago yet it always requires dedicated devs with a vision to create something that feels new and ambitious. If anything most big game series and IP's have started to devolve into more simple, linear and short experiences (under the stress of creating more complex visuals).
So in a sense yes, it's probably not realistic to expect new hardware to spawn new gameplay experiences today.
SwiftDeath
Member
Gameplay does not evolve instantly once a new hardware baseline is met, thinking it does or should is ludicrous.'
Next-gen Gameplay is a poor PR phrase and is meaningless
As for performance/IQ, Second Son is incredibly impressive on that front. I'm not entirely sure what you were expecting OP but I don't feel like the next-gen consoles have been a letdown at all
Next-gen Gameplay is a poor PR phrase and is meaningless
As for performance/IQ, Second Son is incredibly impressive on that front. I'm not entirely sure what you were expecting OP but I don't feel like the next-gen consoles have been a letdown at all
xDUMPWEEDx
Banned
Man that's brutal. You just HAD to have Trevor McFur didn't you?
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
this pretty much sums up what next gen gameplay means to me as well. very well said
BabyFaceKillah
Member
Same here.. Gears was definitely what pushed me to jump onto the 360.
They really don't. Compare Killzone: Shadow Fall and Ryse to Resistance and Perfect Dark. Later on this year you can compare The Order to the original Gears and Uncharted. Again, there will be a chasm between them. The IQ alone this gen (especially inFAMOUS) has been enough to make me happy.
Get a bigger TV.
Weltall Zero
Member
Current gen has been exactly as impressive as I expected, that is, not much. It's by far the smallest leap in visuals across gens that we've had, and people denying it are either delusional or don't remember previous leaps. Even the previous leap was much more impressive; I distinctly remember seeing screenshots of my first "new gen" game, Oblivion, and being incredulous that such an image quality was possible in real time.
The harsh truth is that, as we hit physical limitations on hardware (we've been there for many, many years now, which is what necessitated the development of dual and quad cores) AND the diminishing returns on polygon->visual fidelity, this was absolutely going to happen. What's more, it will be more pronounced in the future; barring any major technology breakthrough (which seems more and more unlikely as years pass), the generation after this will be even less of a leap, more distanced in time than this to the previous, or likely both.
And I'm personally OK with that, frankly. We're well far beyond the visual fidelity I need for games.
The harsh truth is that, as we hit physical limitations on hardware (we've been there for many, many years now, which is what necessitated the development of dual and quad cores) AND the diminishing returns on polygon->visual fidelity, this was absolutely going to happen. What's more, it will be more pronounced in the future; barring any major technology breakthrough (which seems more and more unlikely as years pass), the generation after this will be even less of a leap, more distanced in time than this to the previous, or likely both.
And I'm personally OK with that, frankly. We're well far beyond the visual fidelity I need for games.
We compare new games to the latest games before them, not games that are 7-8 years old.
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
FFXV has a big chance of pulling some crazy stuff with the teleporting mechanic and the scale of the environments.
Hopefully they deliver.
spectyre
Member
I was hoping this gen was going to be a graphical bump and performance leap. Try FFXIV on PS3 for a week. Then play it on PS4. So far I am very satisfied with the improvements early this gen.
Edit: As far as innovation goes there were quite a few innovative titles last gen that just didn't sell well. It's kinda hard to suffer for your art when you have mouths to feed.
Edit: As far as innovation goes there were quite a few innovative titles last gen that just didn't sell well. It's kinda hard to suffer for your art when you have mouths to feed.
ExFalsoQuodlibet
Member
The leap you can see between late PS2/XBOX titles and early PS3/XBOX360 titles was pretty much related to resolution: from what I saw, the best looking PS2 games, emulated on PC and rendered at higher resolution, look a lot like the early titles of 7th gen. I mean, God of War 2 looks incredible. The same for the GameCube.
The leap between last-gen late titles and this-gen titles is mainly related to shaders and post process, as you can see in inFamous. There's a leap there, and from a technical standpoint the leap is as big as ever (maybe bigger, if you consider raw numbers), but the human eye probably appreciates more a leap in resolution than in effects.
Also, late PS3 titles, extremely optimized for the machine, showed extreme shaders and post process (like Beyond: Two Souls) that can maybe give a "next-gen feel", but the rendering in these titles is extremely controlled, and the memory holds only a minuscule part of the game world at any time: it would be impossible to realize a fast paced open world game that looks like B:TS on PS3.
Of course, what really matters and what always matters is the art style, and that's why MK8 looks so amazing: I am sure that when MK8 comes out someone will stop his/her kart on the worst-looking track, in the worst looking-area, take a 720p screenshot, post on GAF and assert that MK8 looks like shit.
What is disappointing to me is not related to the graphics, that for what I was are already awesome on 8th gen, but gameplay: up to this point I didn't see any real next-gen experience, something really new that can push console gaming forward. Maybe Deep Down will do the trick, I don't know, but current games are basically the same old games with better graphics. The only console that, up to this point, has actually used the included new technology to some interesting extent is the WiiU: if consoles cannot capitalize on new ideas, one year from now a PC sized like a XboxOne for similar price will be more compelling even for the console gamer.
The leap between last-gen late titles and this-gen titles is mainly related to shaders and post process, as you can see in inFamous. There's a leap there, and from a technical standpoint the leap is as big as ever (maybe bigger, if you consider raw numbers), but the human eye probably appreciates more a leap in resolution than in effects.
Also, late PS3 titles, extremely optimized for the machine, showed extreme shaders and post process (like Beyond: Two Souls) that can maybe give a "next-gen feel", but the rendering in these titles is extremely controlled, and the memory holds only a minuscule part of the game world at any time: it would be impossible to realize a fast paced open world game that looks like B:TS on PS3.
Of course, what really matters and what always matters is the art style, and that's why MK8 looks so amazing: I am sure that when MK8 comes out someone will stop his/her kart on the worst-looking track, in the worst looking-area, take a 720p screenshot, post on GAF and assert that MK8 looks like shit.
What is disappointing to me is not related to the graphics, that for what I was are already awesome on 8th gen, but gameplay: up to this point I didn't see any real next-gen experience, something really new that can push console gaming forward. Maybe Deep Down will do the trick, I don't know, but current games are basically the same old games with better graphics. The only console that, up to this point, has actually used the included new technology to some interesting extent is the WiiU: if consoles cannot capitalize on new ideas, one year from now a PC sized like a XboxOne for similar price will be more compelling even for the console gamer.
I agree. I also think physics simulation will be a huge part of this generation and will help create new gameplay opportunities now that developers have the hardware to do it more often. Hell, it might be a huge part of The Order. I remember thinking Red Faction: Guerrilla was one of the best experiences in gaming just because of the physics and destruction that was rare at the time and still is in many ways. Now developers have the hardware to simulate physics pretty accurately while still making a good looking game visually. To me, proper physics affecting gameplay is about as next-gen as you could possibly get.
I don't know why we need to categorize and analyze these things though. I play games to have fun and these new consoles and my PC will give me a lot of enjoyment regardless if it's as huge of a jump as the last transition was since that one was much more obvious. Even then, the differences are already extremely noticeable and if you can't tell between InFAMOUS 2 and Second Son, then I think you're just setting yourself up for disappointment for whatever reason. I for one don't go into something looking for disappointment, but more FUN experiences. Now I finally get console games at 1080p with vastly better fidelity and eventually new gameplay scenarios not possible in the past. Even playing PC games a few years ago, you could tell the games were being held back by the consoles no matter what extra PC features they added just by looking at the backgrounds, especially buildings in a city. They were just low-poly rectangles with no detail at all because that's what they needed to do on the consoles. Now, we have games like Killzone: Shadow Fall that show how you just how amazing you can make a huge city look with ease.
You don't have to be impressed by this generation, but writing it off so soon and ignoring very obvious technical advancements isn't doing you any favors. If Second Son didn't impress you as an early game this generation and you don't see a big difference from the last game on PS3, then maybe you're looking for generational leaps in all the wrong areas because it's a huge difference.
Either way, it's always better to wait until a game that really impresses you comes out. We all know how console launches go by now so no need to buy something at launch if you don't see anything you want or like.
Anyway, back to play Second Son for my enjoyment instead of analyzing it looking for disappointment.
I distinctly remember seeing screenshots of my first "new gen" game, Oblivion, and being incredulous that such an image quality was possible in real time.
This screenshot is a terrible argument. This does not look any more advanced over, say, Twilight Princess than Second Son does over Infamous 2.