J
JoJo UK
Unconfirmed Member
I know what you mean.
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Phil Spencer Next Cloud Demo being planned will show BW/ CPU/ Latency Info
- Thread starter Kayant
- Start date
*rimshot*
Didn't Andrew House say 90% of PS4's are connected to the internet? I would assume Xbox One is close to the same. And yet here we are, still arguing about an always online console. Online connectivity is the future and it's not as far away as some people probably think.
With that said, there needs to be a failsafe for when ones internet does lose connection due to unforseen circumstances.
With that said, there needs to be a failsafe for when ones internet does lose connection due to unforseen circumstances.
GuitarAtomik
Member
So when do you think we'll see this? Maybe Gamescom?
justsomeguy
Member
*snorts* headshot!
DudeWithNoName
Member
I'm glad Microsoft is [potentially] putting their money where their mouth is regarding cloud tech and gaming. If they can demonstrate that this stuff will work on your average cable modem user, this could put most doubts to rest.
EA didn't really use "the cloud" on Titanfall other than it being dedicated servers like many games have used in the past, along with their AI routines for the bots. Which has also been done for years. I remember them in Unreal Tournament 1999. Nothing new there.
Of course it's possible for Azure to help out with games, but so far, nobody has seen anything groundbreaking.
The difference between what Gaikai and Sony are doing with PS Now and Microsofts "The Cloud" is that PS Now is a real thing that can be booted up right now and entire games streamed over the internet. It's a very impressive piece of technology that Sony saw in Gaikai and snatched them up accordingly.
The lulz just keep coming and coming.
Floating point numbers don't compress well at all. The tiniest changes change a lot bits all over the place. And I hope we agree that there's no point having thousands of particles in the exact same spot.
If this is supposed to work, the compression has to be maintable. What happens whenever you don't maintain the necessary ratio to stay within bandwidth limitations? It will happen you know.
And frankly, I still don't believe there is a practical compression scheme for this to begin with. zlib, bzip, lzma, none of those can deal with infinitesimal fp data well at all.
Decomposing floats into "common base" + entropy and reconstructing them are inherently floating point ops themselves. How many of those can you do per particle before you're using more processing resources than the particle system would in itself when run locally?
StalkerUKCG
Banned
Why would I want to live there
Yes, but playing Destiny online doesn't prevent me from playing Infamous offline.
The whole point of people complaining about the always online requirement of Xbox One was that it would have killed offline gaming. Personally, I am always connected and I have enjoyed games like MAG and Warhawk, but I was glad to be able to play Portal 2 single player when PSN was hacked.
You might be underestimating the optimization possibilities with the given problem: colliding particles tend to distribute rather evenly, fixed point arithmetics & lossy compression methods could be used since it doesn't matter if the transmitted positions have a certain amount of error (the servers handle all collisions locally with precise floats, the client can get a simplified representation that is used for rendering), depending on player viewpoint a lot of data can be reduced in detail (no point in having superdense particles 100m away) etc. etc. I'm not an expert in the field, but I assume (hope?) the guys at Cloudgine are - so I wouldn't rule it out at all that the tech might be feasible with todays infrastructure. But let's just see how the "official" numbers and further demos turn out..
Isn't this a few hours from now? it's in UK Time (I think).
http://www.developconference.com/Content/Evolve-2014
By the way why isn't there a thread for the Develop Conference? there is a lot going on this week.
http://www.developconference.com/Content/Evolve-2014
By the way why isn't there a thread for the Develop Conference? there is a lot going on this week.
Thanks for the heads up. Looks like theres a id@xbox state of the union shortly too.
rokkerkory
Member
Cool better prove it MS
Corn. And lots of it.
oh boy
DOWN
Banned
And that's a sucky way to release games and is a flaw of their bright cloudy future. Two optimizations at least for all games on the cloud? What about for poor connections?
Wishmaster92
Member
Isn't ND and/or Mark Cerny supposed to be there too?
3rdamention
Member
Well, I guess it's time to prove this. Never forget.......
"It's also been stated that the Xbox One is ten times more powerful than the Xbox 360, so we're effectively 40 times greater than the Xbox 360 in terms of processing capabilities [using the cloud]. If you look to the cloud as something that is no doubt going to evolve and grow over time, it really spells out that there's no limit to where the processing power of Xbox One can go."
"It's also been stated that the Xbox One is ten times more powerful than the Xbox 360, so we're effectively 40 times greater than the Xbox 360 in terms of processing capabilities [using the cloud]. If you look to the cloud as something that is no doubt going to evolve and grow over time, it really spells out that there's no limit to where the processing power of Xbox One can go."
It's not much to prove it's a fact that Computers/Severs are more powerful than Xbox 360 & Xbox One the only problem is processing the data & getting back & forth from the user & the severs fast enough to make a difference.
3rdamention
Member
My point is, that the cloud makes the Xbox One 4 times more powerful than the Xbox One without the cloud. And I agree with you, that it works well with a large majority of connections and environments..
I think eventually they will be able to show off their claims in games that take advantage of the cloud processing I think it will mostly be dealing with the A.I & things that are not graphics based though. .
You object to having more information? One would presume the game/games will be shown in relation to their release date.
Any liveblog?
"#Microsoft Cloud gaming its more than just streaming your games.. Rob Fraser Cloud CTO #developconf"
https://twitter.com/lee_stott
"#Microsoft Cloud gaming its more than just streaming your games.. Rob Fraser Cloud CTO #developconf"
https://twitter.com/lee_stott
Possibly because it isn't slated for release until sometime like 2016 and these demos are probably all there is to show?
"#developconf cloud isn't just for big boys yes TitanFall uses 100,000 servers but Indies also use #cloud... Rob Fraser CTO Cloud Microsoft"
https://twitter.com/lee_stott/status/486430990420963328
https://twitter.com/lee_stott/status/486430990420963328
Yea, fuck the cloud. Microsoft has a history of pulling server support and I'd like to be able to play single player on my games without half a city or landscape invisible, or less people because...cloud. The best thing they could do is shut the fuck up about clouds and show some really good gameplay from the mass of talent they've been buying up in the last decade or so.
Instead of blowing smoke up peoples arses still trying to prove their dick is as big as Sony, start moving your hips around and make do with what you have..
Instead of blowing smoke up peoples arses still trying to prove their dick is as big as Sony, start moving your hips around and make do with what you have..
Q: Who are going to make these cloud based games?
Is it the third party lot? Because I can't see them making anything that cuts out revenue from Sony.
Does that leave first party? Because they don't exactly make roads outside of the core franchises very often.
All very well getting excited about this, entering into can it/can't it debates. The main thing at the centre of it all is whether or not anybody will actually use it.
Look at the adoption of Move, Kinect, Wii Motion+... anything that falls outside of core console functions. Not a rosy picture for adoption is it?
Is it the third party lot? Because I can't see them making anything that cuts out revenue from Sony.
Does that leave first party? Because they don't exactly make roads outside of the core franchises very often.
All very well getting excited about this, entering into can it/can't it debates. The main thing at the centre of it all is whether or not anybody will actually use it.
Look at the adoption of Move, Kinect, Wii Motion+... anything that falls outside of core console functions. Not a rosy picture for adoption is it?
so, 100.00 servers used for titanfall? other than this tweet feed, any other source for the event? stream, blog?
Yoda
Member
If there is no money to pay to keep the lights on 'so to speak' then the lights won't be on.
disappeared
Banned
All this cloud talk still sounds to me like some last-ditch effort to justify some of their original PR talk. None of it is going to matter to people who bought a One and don't have a stable internet connection. It mayeswell be locked behind Gold.
Pound_lb003
Member
You know, trying to personify GAF will always make it look schizophrenic, because (and this is clearly a hard concept for everyone to understand) you cannot generalise about a community's opinion or reaction.
On the other hand, cloud-based compute is still a very sketchy idea, and tech demos being streamed to me, give me no real idea about how valid they are. That Crackdown demo doesn't have me dancing on the table shouting "cloud compute is here now!". If anything it raises more questions.
Be ready to deal with the skepticism until we all have sound examples of cloud compute on our machines working locally (or as locally as the cloud can be).
But not all exclusive games use it in the first place apart from TF and Forza 5..... Is there a list of released exclusive XB1 indie games with MP? because it makes sense for them to use free servers if that option is there as we have been told no? but I have yet to see any indie devs talk about azure.
because building crackdown using cloud tech from a company they help founded is all for the sake for pr. cboat will tell yah to get your head out of his butt.
That's what I am skeptical about with PSNow, too.
Alx
Member
As a matter of fact it's also more than offloading some processing from the console... cloud computing is the most impressive (and difficult) use of "the cloud", but I hope they'll also mention creative uses of shared information. Having personalized AIs populate games all over the world or accessing your friends progress or media is a good start, but still a simple one.
TF uses a third of Azure? Really?
33.000 for resolution, 33.000 for framerate, 33.000 for tearing.
Good example of cloud goodness.
no it does not
geordiemp
Member
The problem I have with the MS Azure cloud and Sony PSNow is that it all the latency stuff assumes everyone lives in USA with a data centre down the road.
As a person in EU I just cant see how this stuff will translate to a world wide audience ?
Taking COD for example, the time to kill for 2 shots at 720 RPM is 75 milliseconds. For some guns its 100 ms.
For me online games ping should be way less than 50 ms to make many games playable, add multiple people and I just cant see adding streaming or cloud compute is going to work other than for a select few (world wide).
Personally I think distributed servers world wide would do allot more for gamers, as would games running in 60 FPS with decent net code than this PR nonsense,
As a person in EU I just cant see how this stuff will translate to a world wide audience ?
Taking COD for example, the time to kill for 2 shots at 720 RPM is 75 milliseconds. For some guns its 100 ms.
For me online games ping should be way less than 50 ms to make many games playable, add multiple people and I just cant see adding streaming or cloud compute is going to work other than for a select few (world wide).
Personally I think distributed servers world wide would do allot more for gamers, as would games running in 60 FPS with decent net code than this PR nonsense,
Very curious to see what they'll achieve with this thing, so far it's just talk.
My doubts is that it's all a show of big guns, the concept obviously is real but I still wonder about the application of the technology on a large scale of games rather than a dozen of them in the entire generation and for something more useful than a couple of particles, with good performance and keeping the game worth playing offline.
When they announced it I immediately thought it was too soon, let's see if they're right.
My doubts is that it's all a show of big guns, the concept obviously is real but I still wonder about the application of the technology on a large scale of games rather than a dozen of them in the entire generation and for something more useful than a couple of particles, with good performance and keeping the game worth playing offline.
When they announced it I immediately thought it was too soon, let's see if they're right.
EventHorizon
Member
Power of the Cloud - Microsoft Cloud Demo (simulating ~35,000 falling chunks)
Power of the GPU - Resogun (no internet required)
Power of the GPU - Resogun (no internet required)
More tweets -
Retro games also
https://twitter.com/lee_stott/status/486436870038228992
Age of Ascent paying $75per hour for 100,000 users
https://twitter.com/lee_stott/status/486437448348860417
Build demo
https://twitter.com/lee_stott/status/486438135879184384
Retro games also
https://twitter.com/lee_stott/status/486436870038228992
Age of Ascent paying $75per hour for 100,000 users
https://twitter.com/lee_stott/status/486437448348860417
Build demo
https://twitter.com/lee_stott/status/486438135879184384
Alx
Member
Physics engine Vs particle rendering. Id est completely different things.
It's in the early phases, like VR. Maybe next gen we'll get cloud based VR games, for this generation though, cloud isn't economically sensible for game developers as they still have to make their game run on local hardware. Adding cloud stuff is just an added expense for no gain.