PshycoNinja
Member
But jumping is mainly used for getting somewhere higher in the last few FF games (LR and FFXIV). If you have warping to get to those higher/lower places then what reason would you need the jump for?
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Final Fantasy XV TGS 2014 Trailer | Lord Nomura giveth us His only Son so we may live
- Thread starter Kagari
- Start date
But jumping is mainly used for getting somewhere higher in the last few FF games (LR and FFXIV). If you have warping to get to those higher/lower places then what reason would you need the jump for?
Agreed. Definitely true that not every thing can be put on Tabata and especially just the bad. Don't know enough.
Look at it from a neutral point of view.
Think it's because it gives you some degree of freedom. I don't think ARR or XIII-2 had much platforming just that you have control.
NoctisVsStar
Member
The warping is batman-esque imo similar to The grappling hook And you cant jump either in The arkham games.
manual air combos
PshycoNinja
Member
I think it's honestly a little early to complain about a battle system/control no one has gotten their hands on. We should all be able to more clearly make decisions on how the BS is after we all play the demo. Give Tabata a chance to show why this battle system is better for FFXV than what Nomura had planned in 2013.
Even more so, considering that it seems we don't have all the correct facts yet. Like the character switching.
I understand in the action-game sense, but it really doesn't sound you'll be doing air combos in this. Psycho is right: Why implement jumping when you can cross obstacles with a click of a button? (Assuming you really do only play Noct).
I also think it's far more likely a launch maneuver will included in the Gambit stuff for you to follow enemies into the air thereafter.
Exentryk
Member
Warping is limited to specific spots tho.
And Jumping adds another dimension to attacks, as you can jump and hit enemies while being airborne. It's also useful for terrain navigation, and is just fun to be able to do.
PshycoNinja
Member
Idk. Jumping in KH, LR and ARR isn't fun. As for terrain navigation, we can see Noctis navigate that cave and other areas thanks to warping in the trailer. As for juggling enemies in the air, looking at both the trailer and demo, this isn't that type of game. Enemies have weight/sense of realism. Therefore juggling a enemy with a full set of armor in the air would go against what they're trying to do. Although I can see why one would want it in as I love juggling enemies in the air in other games. I just don't think it will be that way for this game.
As for someone saying how to do it when your not in control of Noctis. Simple, if they have character switching, switch back to Noctis go to desired area and switch to the other party member you want to play.
Idk why people want it to be honest. Jumping was so stiff and so not fun in ARR or LR. Plus, gameplay-wise it did virtually nothing for those games expect to be used to platform to higher areas to get something. Noctis can just warp to it.
Yep. I don't have any reason to complain yet since I really enjoyed what I played of Type-0. But it does no good judging like that so early and attaching a negative stigma. I want to hear about the sub systems, the "gambit" and controls in detail and of course try it out.
Also a bit similar to Bioshock Infinite. That's what it reminded me of at least!
Specific, but it's not like there will be few spots to warp to though?
PshycoNinja
Member
Type-0 didn't have jumping either. Nine has a command called Jump but it's an attack. I didn't have less fun because there was no jump as it would've served virtually no purpose. Type-0 is an Action JRPG too. Considering the battle system we have now I am also failing to see what jump would add to the game.
Exentryk
Member
Wut? Jumping in KH isn't fun??? I don't even...
You never jumped over rooftops and collected secret chests? Never double jumped and glided to a hidden area? Never jumped in to a swarm of heartless and used a ranged attack to get everyone? I mean... wow!
In LR, jumping was quite useful, as you didn't need to go around small bumps in the terrain, or around cliffs, especially when you're pressed for time.
I didn't even consider the juggling aspect, but that's another thing you'll miss out if it works in this system.
PshycoNinja
Member
Unless you are talking about KH3D's flow motion system, jumping is not in of itself fun. Everything your talking about is purely traversal. And like I said you can and probably will do all of the above with warp command. Getting to hidden areas or high places. You can navigate around with warp. And I don't think FFXV will press you for time the same way LR did. And LR's jumping was so stiff and stilted it was basically useless/broken. With KH2 I would rarely jump in battle unless there was a flying enemy in the air I needed to take out.
As for battle, again, you can wrap into the middle of the action and go to town. I think your placing more emphasis on a jump button where the warp button will be able to perfectly replace it in almost every instance and most of the time be more useful. That's my opinion. Again I think we should hold off until we play it before we say anything for certain.
Jumping is a really great skill-based mechanic to discover new items or places, can be really rewarding like in Kingdom Hearts.
Exentryk
Member
Jumping in LR was useful for traversal, and in battle for juggling enemies. In KH, jumping can be used to avoid attacks, and attack enemies from above. So no, I am not talking purely about traversal.
And no, Warp will not perfectly replace Jump. Jump is short and fast way to do the above, has no cost and it doesn't take you out of the battle field. Can you attack an enemy from above while standing on the same level surface as the enemy using a single warp to enemy? Warp does have other benefits over Jump however, but it's not a reason to not have jump at all.
We obviously disagree on pretty much everything here, but yes, let's just wait for tomorrow
Exentryk
Member
It will be included in every copy.
Mr Ninja Do you even KH bro
No, really
(Jumping reduces cast time which is a key component of a LOT of looping animation locks)
Perfo
Thirteen flew over the cuckoo's nest
First press copies only. But I think in every store, it's just that they're probably in partnership with amazon for marketing purposes.
PshycoNinja
Member
Jumping in LR was useful for traversal, and in battle for juggling enemies. In KH, jumping can be used to avoid attacks, and attack enemies from above. So no, I am not talking purely about traversal.
And no, Warp will not perfectly replace Jump. Jump is short and fast way to do the above, has no cost and it doesn't take you out of the battle field. Can you attack an enemy from above while standing on the same level surface as the enemy using a single warp to enemy? Warp does have other benefits over Jump however, but it's not a reason to not have jump at all.
We obviously disagree on pretty much everything here, but yes, let's just wait for tomorrow
One correction. LR in battle you didn't jump of your own volition. Your character automatically did that if the enemy was in the air.
I have played, beaten and loved every one of the KH games. All I am saying is traversal-wise the warp command can do pretty much what the jump command does. And I like using this example because it works so well, Type-0 didn't have a jump function yet I didn't feel like traversal or that the BS was lacking because of how those systems were set up. All I am saying is FFXV will be the same way if it doesn't have it. And to be perfectly honest we don't know if it does or doesn't.
Also in regards to jumping to cast magic to cut down time, these are two very different games. I honestly do not believe that even if they did put in a jump command that it would be a thing in FFXV.
I see........so I would probably need to buy as soon as it releases. Thanks.
Exentryk
Member
Jump pretty much became the button you set as your close range physical attack (when an enemy was in the air). So launch enemy, and juggle with "Jump".
But I'll give you that one
No, that's not all you were saying.
See:(FWIW I totally agree with you that other games are irrelevant as far as FFXV goes. Just giving you a hard time over poor choice of argument that is inherently false)
PshycoNinja
Member
Jump pretty much became the button you set as your close range physical attack (when an enemy was in the air). So launch enemy, and juggle with "Jump".
But I'll give you that one
No, that's not all you were saying.
(FWIW I totally agree with you that other games are irrelevant as far as FFXV goes. Just giving you a hard time over poor choice of argument that is inherently false)
You guys just love givin' me a hard time.
And Falk. Yes, for that sentence, it was a poor choice of words. What I meant to say was it was limited in what it was helping you do. Games are built around a set of mechanics. If there is no jump button in FFXV, in all likelyhood you won't need it. I imagine they will create enemies to challenge you to use the warping function a lot. Square Enix is pretty mindful when it comes to their battle systems. If you play the game and have instances where you feel like you have to jump and they don't have that command then they failed.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
TLOU? Interesting...
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Naughty Dog, From Software and now Square Enix.....that CV
All of this. I don't see jumping as a big addition or omission and people have yet to provide a legitimately compelling reason for it's inclusion.
It's definitively Whatever.
Perfo
Thirteen flew over the cuckoo's nest
They're really ugly. The whole UI in this game is totally horrible. Hopefully nothing is near on being final.
They probably will, of you always have Warp available for use. Seems like you need to actually be holding down R1 looking for the targets to attach to though, for them to be visible.
Yeah, the already minimalist, damn-near non-existent UI for this game is atrocious!
It helps make traversal that much less cumbersome and adds to the freedom of exploration. FFXIV is an MMO where jumping isn't the least bit important to the core gameplay, yet even in it jumping just simply makes the traversal much better. You can jump up cliffs that you can't run up and get past some pesky fences and other obstacles that would become a bit more cumbersome to get past if you could just run around them. Without jumping, FFXV's traversal will be super limited even with the zeroshift as the zeroshift requires something where the zeroshift can anchor to. So imagine a high fence with no walls or trees close enough behind it that you could throw the sword towards. The only way getting past the fence would be to find an opening in it. Even if that would take just 5-10 seconds, it's an inconvenience. In battles, it would be great if you could jump for multiple reasons. It's an evasive maneuver that could help you when you get surrounded by a group of enemies and can't be bothered to look around for something to zeroshift to. Jumping seems like a kind of essential skill with battling huge enemies like the Adamantoise and getting around its back once you're on it as well. Jumping could also be good for when you want to see past some group of enemies in front of you. Maybe there's an annoying projectile using a bit further behind a group of melee enemies you'd want to get rid of first but there are too many enemies in front of it to get a zero shift lock-on on it. With a jump button you could jump above enemies freely and see past them to lock-on to the enemy behind them. If there's a jump button, it means that there are zero chances of intentional or accidental invisible knee-high obstacles that block your movement more than you'd want in an action RPG.
Dunno if posted, but this might explain why Osaka team is having trouble with Luminous.
http://sqex.info/
http://sqex.info/
Nightengale
Member
So basically Tabata has temporarily absorbed the Luminous team to do stuff to his specific biddings, and throwing Osaka needs under the bus?
That could be, since the Osaka team does not have much experience on even PS3 level development let alone PS4 and the Luminous team was supposed to be helping them with their deeper knowledge about the subject whenever they had some problems. If they are completely tied to FFXV, the KH team seems to be on their own. -_-
donutzsick
Member
Integrating all of the teams is a smart move on Tabata's part, however it slows down the other teams. FFXV better hit hard for everything they are investing into it
So basically Tabata has temporarily absorbed the Luminous team to do stuff to his specific biddings, and throwing Osaka needs under the bus?
They have transitioned to one custom engine to another. I find that funny.
Sounds like Luminous is fine when developed as a custom tailored engine, but development is going slow for it as an all-in-one?
Priorities!
I am sure once they are done or close to down with XV, many of the XV team will move to work on KH3.
I'm not sure if there are any problems with Luminous per se, they just probably have specific needs for FFXV and seem to be leveraging their expertise to make those things happen with Luminous.
Also, as I said in my previous post , the Luminous team wasn't supposed to help exclusively with FFXV. The Osaka team talked like they were (supposed to be) getting a lot of support from the Luminous team as well, to get them up to speed with PS4 level development after mostly specializing on PSP/3DS/PS2 level development before. Now it seems they might be on their own, probably meaning there will be no KH until 2017 at earliest...
Nomura can't catch a break.So basically Tabata has temporarily absorbed the Luminous team to do stuff to his specific biddings, and throwing Osaka needs under the bus?
He had one for about eight years.
I guess management prioritized XV. Which I'm fine with, otherwise it might take even longer to release...
Been said before, but ARR reminded me how much I missed dungeons.
PshycoNinja
Member
Your kidding right? The UI is fantastic. Simplistic and not so busy that a million things on the UI cover up half the screen.
XIV and XV clearly have improved the UI's greatly from the last several games.
Yeah, no he didn't. We've been over this crap a million times. FFVsXIII was announced years before it had any reasonable reason to be announced (which more than likely wasn't Nomura's decision, but some higher-ups wanted a big bang with the announcement of their Fabula Nova Crystalis shit), when it was just in a conceptualizing phase when they couldn't even move on with the development of FFXIII & FFXIV, let alone games like FFVsXIII that were always supposed to come after those two. Up until 2012, Nomura was also hugely involved with a lot of great games, so it's not like he's been doing nothing for SQEX since E3 2006 (he's been more or less involved with most of the best games of SQEX post-PS2 era while Toriyama has done his best to crap everything he touches).
donutzsick
Member
I miss dungeons AND the rewards for clearing dungeons. Weapons, crafting/synthesis materials, cool boss encounters, etc. I also want to SEE dungeons that the people who designed Accordo can come up with!
Agreed. Some ARR dungeons are fantastic in design and it'll be fun to see the balance between realistic looking and fantasy in them.