And humans have a near infinite capacity to adjust to hardship.
That being said, no doubt he would beat the shit out of Jay if he saw him.
Finish the fight.
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Serial: Season 01 Discussion - This American Life meets True Detective
- Thread starter Malyse
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And humans have a near infinite capacity to adjust to hardship.
That being said, no doubt he would beat the shit out of Jay if he saw him.
Finish the fight.
I think part of it is that they want to make it easy for their older fans that listen to TAL every week on the radio to keep up with Serial.
Probably going to look into it again when the season over, so I can marathon it. Feeling down every week doesn't seem like good pass time.
Well yeah. That video with Ira and that old lady on the "how to listen page" straight up says out loud "we think a lot of you don't know how to get a podcast" caption "Especially you older people.". It's just funny how the entire website is basically built around "be accessible to old people". Not something you see often.
I read this season would be 12, too. Can't find the source anymore, too much news about Serial now.
Another interesting Podcast is this one from Alex Blumberg, producer of This American Life, and co-creator of Planet Money.
It's called Startup, and it's about him trying to create a startup in real-time.
http://hearstartup.com/
Very candid, it even includes his partner's conversations with his wife about how insulted he was by Alex's first equity split offer.
It's called Startup, and it's about him trying to create a startup in real-time.
http://hearstartup.com/
Very candid, it even includes his partner's conversations with his wife about how insulted he was by Alex's first equity split offer.
Blumberg was just on this pod talking about that pod he's making about making pods.
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/grantland/player?id=11700362
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/grantland/player?id=11700362
I need a pod that comments about this pod that has him talking about the pod that he's making about pods.
Ace Harding
Member
Oh awesome - someone made a thread for this. It's great. I subscribe to TAL so heard the first episode that way and got hooked. Just listened to IV about an hour ago. So good.
Spoilers through Episode IV I guess?
Spoilers through Episode IV I guess?
As others have said, Jay seems shady as shit. I haven't heard one real piece of evidence of a motive for Adnan, and it just seems so bizarre that Adnan would approach this guy he barely knows for help covering up a fucking MURDER. Jay sold weed. Who gives a shit? He seems to think he's in some criminal underground. Needless to say I am VERY curious to see what evidence corroborates Jay's story (or one of his several conflicting stories).
civilstrife
Member
I think Adnan totally did it.
Only tag stuff that's not covered in the show.
We need to talk about the very real possibility that Jay was jealous of the friendship of Jay's girlfriend and Adnan. I mean, for real homie? Dude gets your girl a present before you do? You slippin up.
dead souls
Member
Yeah, this is pretty great. I haven't had a chance to listen to episode 4 yet.
JoeyJungle
Banned
I think when she's interviewing him he had just lost his last appeal. She talks about it at the end of the episode where he finds the girl that may have been able to provide his alibi. She calms him to tell him and he's just like "Okay."
It's not a psychopathic calmness, it's a melancholy obtained from over a decade of being wrongfully imprisoned and continually losing appeals.
EdibleKnife
Member
Dashed through it all. Pretty fantastic. Thanks!
RedNalgene
Member
This podcast is so good, I can't wait for each new episode.
It's really hard to say if Adnan did it. If he did, he's a seriously messed up dude, given all of his interview clips make him sound incredibly genuine and wrongly accused. The Jay guy is super shady, but would he really kill Adnan's ex to get back at him for his connection with his GF? It seems far-fetched and extreme.
This is really one of the best podcasts I've listened to. Every single one is gripping and well told.
It's really hard to say if Adnan did it. If he did, he's a seriously messed up dude, given all of his interview clips make him sound incredibly genuine and wrongly accused. The Jay guy is super shady, but would he really kill Adnan's ex to get back at him for his connection with his GF? It seems far-fetched and extreme.
This is really one of the best podcasts I've listened to. Every single one is gripping and well told.
JoeyJungle
Banned
I have the same idea about Jay. The information he was able to provide (he knew about where her car was, he said they used his shovels, etc.) makes me believe that he was definitely involved, but I don't think that he's the one that killed the girl. His continually changing story means that he definitely wasn't being entirely honest, but I don't know why he would've been involved or why he would try to pin it on Adnan.
It just doesn't make sense that Adnan would trust Jay enough to ask him to help him with a murder, when their relationship is barely more than acquaintances and Jay just sells weed to high schoolers.
More_Badass
Member
Thanks for the heads up. Listening to the first episode now thanks to the thread, it's fascinating so far
The problem is that Adnan is one hell of a plausible suspect and Jay knows too damn much.
RiderKairuu
Member
Will listen to this. I used to live close to Woodlawn High School.
PassiveObserver
Member
Super happy that This American Life spun off in this manner. Looking forward to unraveling this mystery.
I got a chance to listen to episode four last night. I'm right on board with those that are saying that Jay is sketchy as all get out. He seems to know way too much. I might be a sucker, but I don't think that Adnan did it either.
If I had to choose one of the characters we've already met, I'd say that Jay did it, but since we're only in episode four, I'm willing to bet that there could be new characters coming and that one of them will be the killer. Can't wait for episode five!
If I had to choose one of the characters we've already met, I'd say that Jay did it, but since we're only in episode four, I'm willing to bet that there could be new characters coming and that one of them will be the killer. Can't wait for episode five!
PackerinMN
Member
If Adnan did it and had help from Jay, why wouldn't Adnan's defense be to pin it on Jay to create a he said "s/he" said thing. Adnan seems to be genuinely baffled.
I have flip flopped sides a few times already. All I know is that his Podcast is great and I can't wait for the next episode.
I have flip flopped sides a few times already. All I know is that his Podcast is great and I can't wait for the next episode.
Asia's letter to Adnan, March 1, 1999
This is the first letter Asia wrote to Adnan right after he was arrested. In it, she describes talking to him in the library on the afternoon that Hae disappeared.
Asia's affidavit, March 25, 2000
Asia wrote this affidavit soon after Adnan was convicted, at the request of Rabia Chaudry, a friend of Adnan's family.
Asias letters give a small glimpse into Woodlawn High School in the days after Adnans arrest. Most people we talked to in the last year - former students and teachers - have a hazy memory of those months. But Asia writes about a school divided over whether or not Adnan is guilty. One teacher tells a group of students that the police wouldnt have just arrested him on a whim. And, White girl Stacie just mentioned that she thinks you did it. Something about your fibers on Haes body But his friends are sticking up for Adnan, telling Asia hes innocent. She sees Emron (probably Adnans friend Imran) and says that he looked like crap. She concludes that most people think he's innocent. The ones who think hes guilty are the ignorant (and some underclassmen). Although, to be fair, shes kind of on the fence herself
Isn't that what they did? It was mentioned in the last episode that Adnan's lawyers brought up the idea that Jay might be jealous of Adnan's relationship with Jay's girlfriend in court.
I think the problem is that it sounds like a pretty weak motive, especially when Adnan is trying to make the case that he had been seeing a lot of other girls after he broke up with Hae.
exmachina64
Banned
I listened to all four consecutively on Friday, I'm hooked.
At 19 years old, Jay was working in a porn store, selling weed to high schools students and helping casual acquaintances ditch dead bodies. I'd be interested to see where he is now.
During the creation of the first episode, Adnan's last possible chance of overturning his conviction is denied. He will never get out of prison, if he is innocent.
In the U.S. justice system, it is very hard for white males to be exonerated decades later if found innocent. What chances do you think Adnan has?
Unless the staff of Serial find Hae's killer and get a confession from him, Adnan will not leave prison.
At 19 years old, Jay was working in a porn store, selling weed to high schools students and helping casual acquaintances ditch dead bodies. I'd be interested to see where he is now.
During the creation of the first episode, Adnan's last possible chance of overturning his conviction is denied. He will never get out of prison, if he is innocent.
In the U.S. justice system, it is very hard for white males to be exonerated decades later if found innocent. What chances do you think Adnan has?
Unless the staff of Serial find Hae's killer and get a confession from him, Adnan will not leave prison.
I've been really enjoying it so far.
Some parts just don't add up to me.
Like, Adnan comes across as an intelligent guy. More intelligent than to rope a vague drug dealing acquaintance into assisting a murder cover-up and expecting him to stay quiet. And furthermore, what is the motive for him to kill her? It just isn't there for me.
My order of suspects:
1. Jay - shady motherfucker with his ever shifting story and potential motive.
2. Mr S - found the body under very suspicious circumstances and has a history of deviant behaviour (and possible mental illness).
3. Adnan - I believe the alibi and I just can't see a motive for him to do it, considering that he didn't waste much time after the break-up moving onto other girls.
Some parts just don't add up to me.
Like, Adnan comes across as an intelligent guy. More intelligent than to rope a vague drug dealing acquaintance into assisting a murder cover-up and expecting him to stay quiet. And furthermore, what is the motive for him to kill her? It just isn't there for me.
My order of suspects:
1. Jay - shady motherfucker with his ever shifting story and potential motive.
2. Mr S - found the body under very suspicious circumstances and has a history of deviant behaviour (and possible mental illness).
3. Adnan - I believe the alibi and I just can't see a motive for him to do it, considering that he didn't waste much time after the break-up moving onto other girls.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
I am so happy there's is a thread on this.
Jay seems guilty as hell.
Jay seems guilty as hell.
I don't want to flood it, but I intend to add all of it in this thread.
alex chilton
Member
Anybody that wants to listen to the music from the podcast you can stream it here
http://www.stereogum.com/1712477/he...-for-this-american-life-offshoot-serial/mp3s/
I had no idea Nick Thorburn from the Unicorns and Islands did the music. Its pretty great.
http://www.stereogum.com/1712477/he...-for-this-american-life-offshoot-serial/mp3s/
I had no idea Nick Thorburn from the Unicorns and Islands did the music. Its pretty great.
Last spring, Adnan sent me a letter about ... something, I cant even remember exactly what. But it included these two graphs that hed drawn out in pencil. With no explanation. There was just a Post-it attached to the back of one of the papers that said: Could you please hold these 2 pages until we next speak? Thank you.
Heres what he sent:
Price of tea at 7-11
Price of tea at C-Mart
This was curious. It crossed my mind that Adnan might be off his rocker in some way. Or, more excitingly, that these graphs were code for some top-secret information too dangerous for him to send in a letter.
But no. These graphs were a riddle that I would fail to solve when we next spoke, a couple of days later.
Adnan: Now, so would you prefer, as a consumer, would you rather purchase at a store where prices are consistent or items from a store where the prices fluctuate?
Sarah: I would prefer consistency.
Adnan: That makes sense. Especially in todays economy. So if you had to choose, which store would you say has more consistent prices?
Sarah: 7-11 is definitely more consistent.
Adnan: As compared to ?
Sarah: As compared to C-Mart, which is going way up and down.
Look again, Adnan said. Right. Their prices are exactly the same. Its just that the graph of C-Mart prices is zoomed way in the y-axis is in much smaller cost increments so it looks like dramatic fluctuations are happening. And he made the pencil lines much darker and more striking in the C-Mart graph, so it looks more...sinister or something.
This was Adnans point: See how easy it is to look at the same information, but, depending on how its presented, come to two different conclusions about what it means? The 7-11 graph is the innocent graph. The C-Mart graph is the guilty graph. But they contain the same information.
Adnan says hes thought about this a lot in relation to his own case, and hes always been baffled by it; how some people (the jurors) sat through the trial and heard one thing, and others (his family, his lawyers, his friends) sat through it and heard the opposite.
"I read a book about a prosecutor who said its not always about innocent or guilty, its about who can persuade the jury, Adnan said. And theyre not being dishonest nothing about that graph is dishonest but its kind of misleading. Its darker, its zoomed in, the heading is underlined. Everything about it is misleading, but its true information.
"When I first came [to prison], I was naïve to the law, to prison life, to a lot of things," he said. "Now that Im older, I see guys naïve to the law coming in. I use this graph to illustrate it. Probably people here say, 'Oh my god, Syed showed you that damn graph, didnt he?' And Im like, 'No it proves a point!' It proves a good point. So Im kinda infamous for those graphs.
By the time Im done with this story, Im hoping Ill have plotted my own tea graph - without undue spin from C-Mart, or 7-11.
Heres what he sent:
Price of tea at 7-11
Price of tea at C-Mart
This was curious. It crossed my mind that Adnan might be off his rocker in some way. Or, more excitingly, that these graphs were code for some top-secret information too dangerous for him to send in a letter.
But no. These graphs were a riddle that I would fail to solve when we next spoke, a couple of days later.
Adnan: Now, so would you prefer, as a consumer, would you rather purchase at a store where prices are consistent or items from a store where the prices fluctuate?
Sarah: I would prefer consistency.
Adnan: That makes sense. Especially in todays economy. So if you had to choose, which store would you say has more consistent prices?
Sarah: 7-11 is definitely more consistent.
Adnan: As compared to ?
Sarah: As compared to C-Mart, which is going way up and down.
Look again, Adnan said. Right. Their prices are exactly the same. Its just that the graph of C-Mart prices is zoomed way in the y-axis is in much smaller cost increments so it looks like dramatic fluctuations are happening. And he made the pencil lines much darker and more striking in the C-Mart graph, so it looks more...sinister or something.
This was Adnans point: See how easy it is to look at the same information, but, depending on how its presented, come to two different conclusions about what it means? The 7-11 graph is the innocent graph. The C-Mart graph is the guilty graph. But they contain the same information.
Adnan says hes thought about this a lot in relation to his own case, and hes always been baffled by it; how some people (the jurors) sat through the trial and heard one thing, and others (his family, his lawyers, his friends) sat through it and heard the opposite.
"I read a book about a prosecutor who said its not always about innocent or guilty, its about who can persuade the jury, Adnan said. And theyre not being dishonest nothing about that graph is dishonest but its kind of misleading. Its darker, its zoomed in, the heading is underlined. Everything about it is misleading, but its true information.
"When I first came [to prison], I was naïve to the law, to prison life, to a lot of things," he said. "Now that Im older, I see guys naïve to the law coming in. I use this graph to illustrate it. Probably people here say, 'Oh my god, Syed showed you that damn graph, didnt he?' And Im like, 'No it proves a point!' It proves a good point. So Im kinda infamous for those graphs.
By the time Im done with this story, Im hoping Ill have plotted my own tea graph - without undue spin from C-Mart, or 7-11.
Glad to see you have me on ignore, Drop 
Mentally ill just cause dude likes galavanting freely in nature a few times? Struck me as a harmless goofball.
Mentally ill just cause dude likes galavanting freely in nature a few times? Struck me as a harmless goofball.
Rather than trying to predict what will happen, I'm more curious about the impact this show might have on the actual case. Is it possible that Serial discovered more about the case than anyone else ever has? If so, could they legally cause the whole thing to be re-tried in court?
Are the producers ethically in the right to withhold episodes like this when they could be sitting on something that no one had previously discovered? Or, contrarily, does the fact that they're withholding episodes reasonably mean that they did not discover anything new of note, implying that the story will end with just as much uncertainty as it started with?
Are the producers ethically in the right to withhold episodes like this when they could be sitting on something that no one had previously discovered? Or, contrarily, does the fact that they're withholding episodes reasonably mean that they did not discover anything new of note, implying that the story will end with just as much uncertainty as it started with?
I'm sure if anything substantive was discovered it was handled properly and the results of anything like that will be discussed on the show.
apocalidiot
Banned
Here are my thoughts, my mind dipped in and out occasionally over the drive when I listened to it so I might have some wrong memories (lol). Don't read the rest unless you're caught up. I don't think I need to spoiler tag this stuff but I'll edit if necessary
Again these are my thoughts without putting any real effort in double checking. Also, these are my conclusions that I know are pure speculation
I think Jay had something to do with it since he knew so much about the crime (strangled), and he was getting rid of his (their?) clothes in a dumpster after the crime. But it really doesn't make sense why anyone wanted her to die.
Isn't Jay taking a huge ass risk by pinning the crime on Adnan, when Adnan could have easily had an alibi that day? Just from have been hanging around school, etc
The diary shit is crazy. To get such an inside view on her perspective throughout her relationship with Adnan. I find it interesting that Adnan never really showed aggression towards her after they broke up.
Also is this true - Is Jay saying that they drove around casually, smoking weed and cruising around with a dead body in their trunk? What the fuck? The way it all got handled (if Jay's confession is true, which has been populated with inconsistencies/lies) seems so fucing weird and calmly.
This show is addicting, and frustrating. Frustrating at the fact that this girl was murdered. Frustrating that the killer could possibly be roaming free... if not in this case, then in many across the country/world. I foresee an audience that is mad at the lack of resolution at the conclusion of this series/season... because people are dumb. I also hope people don't harass anyone mentioned in the podcast either via Facebook, letters, etc
Again these are my thoughts without putting any real effort in double checking. Also, these are my conclusions that I know are pure speculation
I think Jay had something to do with it since he knew so much about the crime (strangled), and he was getting rid of his (their?) clothes in a dumpster after the crime. But it really doesn't make sense why anyone wanted her to die.
Isn't Jay taking a huge ass risk by pinning the crime on Adnan, when Adnan could have easily had an alibi that day? Just from have been hanging around school, etc
The diary shit is crazy. To get such an inside view on her perspective throughout her relationship with Adnan. I find it interesting that Adnan never really showed aggression towards her after they broke up.
Also is this true - Is Jay saying that they drove around casually, smoking weed and cruising around with a dead body in their trunk? What the fuck? The way it all got handled (if Jay's confession is true, which has been populated with inconsistencies/lies) seems so fucing weird and calmly.
This show is addicting, and frustrating. Frustrating at the fact that this girl was murdered. Frustrating that the killer could possibly be roaming free... if not in this case, then in many across the country/world. I foresee an audience that is mad at the lack of resolution at the conclusion of this series/season... because people are dumb. I also hope people don't harass anyone mentioned in the podcast either via Facebook, letters, etc
I'm nervous that people will lash out at Jay after this season is over with.
Also, I'm thinking out loud here; likely reaching, but the title of the Podcast, Serial, could that imply that the murder was a serial murder? I doubt it, but it was something that came to mind.
exmachina64
Banned
If someone hadn't phoned the police with that tip and/or Jay had never spoken up, this could easily be another cold case. Without DNA evidence, we'll never truly know what happened to Hae Min Lee without a startling revelation in this podcast series.
To us, it's a random killing, but perhaps a serial killer took advantage of an opportunity that presented itself.
In the Jay's guilty/Adnan's innocent theory, since there's a six week gap between the body's discovery, Jay had time to search for someone without an alibi. From casual conversation with Adnan, he could learn things like the track team's attendance policy.
People say more than they think they do in casual conversation and someone intelligent/psychopathic/motivated enough could memorize the details.
Plenty of people go through normal break-ups in high school. They knew each other well in advance and were part of a small social circle within the high school. If Adnan was the player he's made out to be, he was already getting enough sex after the break-up and didn't have much reason to be bitter.
I could be wrong, but I thought the casual smoking happened after they buried the body.
Do we know if the names are real?
One thing that stands out to me is that this is how murders were investigated before forensic analysis came to dominate. Other people I've gotten to listen to the podcast are baffled that an innocent person could end up in prison. People make the naïve (and natural) assumption that only the guilty are in prison, but think of how many innocent people were imprisoned because of similar evidence in past centuries.
apocalidiot
Banned
Nah.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_(radio_and_television)
But I definitely am interesting in the idea that they're dishing out what they want us to know at the pace they want... which is obviously cool and shapes the story. But I just wanna know it all dammit
Even if he was running nude through the forest, that body was very well hidden.
The surveyor who was standing over it couldn't even see it.
It's just suspicious as fuck
Just finished the 4th episode. To me, it seems like Adnan really did it. I completely see Jay's train of thought, he just doesn't trust police, knew Adnan had dirt on him and was just panicking and helped with the disposal of the body. He used Jay because he knew he was a drug dealer, had past history with the police and would be more likely to help him and less likely to rat on him.
Is that enough to convict Adnan though? Its just Jay's word against his that essentially builds the case, that doesn't seem like enough.
Then again, just typing this out, I'm not even sure I believe my own opinion!
Is that enough to convict Adnan though? Its just Jay's word against his that essentially builds the case, that doesn't seem like enough.
Then again, just typing this out, I'm not even sure I believe my own opinion!
None of what you wrote even really implicates Adnan though. What evidence do you see there that Adnan did it at all? Jay accuses Adnan of playing him into helping to bury the body but never claims to have witnessed nor has any evidence that Adnan ever killed her.
Is there even have any evidence at all that Jay hid the body? Or that Adnan was with Jay? I forget whatever physical evidence there is attached to Jay since I'm rating his testimony as Basically Completely Worthless.
While Jay does seem suspicious, it's not shocking or surprising that he wouldn't go to the police after what Adnan supposedly had said. The motive for Jay to kill Hae is even weaker than Adnan's. While I'm unsure of who killed Hae, I don't think Adnan's demeanor should necessarily be a positive for him on the not a killer side. Since he grew up in such a restrictive household, he had to develop the ability to lie on what he was doing to his parent and keep multiple personalities depending on who he was with. I say that is a kid that grew up in an somewhat restrictive Asian household.
Map of the gravesite and the locations where the police found evidence. The key is hard to read, so we circled the evidence and added some annotations explaining what each object is.
This is a map of the gravesite in Leakin Park and of the places where the police found evidence. The straight line that runs diagonally through the center of the map shows the distance from the road to the place where Haes body was found. The splotchy-looking things are trees. The dotted rectangle at the top is the pull-off, where they found a bunch of shell casings and made a tire impression cast. The condom and condom wrapper were just down the road from the pull-off, and across the street is where they picked up two Blockbuster cases and some more shell casings. So, the only evidence they collected from near Haes body was a rope, a liquor bottle and a feather. But they did find three additional pieces of evidence on and underneath her body: a piece of human hair and two fibers. More on that later.
I would like to remind everyone that this is not a work of fiction. This is real life, so there is the distinct possibility that we get a bad ending, or even no ending at all. Also, please take care to not think of people as characters in a story and painting them with tropes. They have real lives and we are only peeking in on a narrowly focused portion of it, one a good deal in the past, no less.
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