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Serial: Season 01 Discussion - This American Life meets True Detective

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B

Brakke

Banned
DreamDrop said:
I would like to remind everyone that this is not a work of fiction. This is real life, so there is the distinct possibility that we get a bad ending, or even no ending at all. Also, please take care to not think of people as characters in a story and painting them with tropes. They have real lives and we are only peeking in on a narrowly focused portion of it, one a good deal in the past, no less.
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"Treat the people as an end, not the drama of your experience with the case"

DreamDrop said:
WARNING: Due to the nature of the program, current episode spoilers will be discussed and unmarked. That being said, any external independent research should be spoiler tagged. AKA tag anything that you know for a fact that would ruin later episodes.
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"Treat your own experience as the end, not the people on the tapes"

So what is it, Drop? What does Serial mean to you, how do you approach it? Is it characters and drama or is it a careful consideration of the true experience of the participants in the fullest possible context? Why are you here, what do you want to get from the pod?
 
P

Pikelet

Member
Am I wrong or is there currently no plausible motive as to why anyone except Adnan would have done the killing?

Jay's story is sometimes inconsistent on the details, but the general gist of it kinda rings true. Jay sold weed to Adnan and is pretty shady in general, so it seems that Adnan saw him as someone unlikely to go to the cops.

It's just so hard to say though, there is so much that doesn't add up. According to the diary and people who knew him, Adnan never really seemed that shook up by the breakup, at least not enough to kill someone. Why did Adnan need help to dig a small hole in the ground in the first place, a task that supposedly only took 20 minutes? Why did Jay's story keep changing? If Jay was lying, what possible motive could he have for killing Hae?

It's a fantastic podcast though - well researched, well produced and utterly gripping.
 
M

Malyse

Member
Pikelet said:
Am I wrong or is there currently no plausible motive as to why anyone except Adnan would have done the killing?

Jay's story is sometimes inconsistent on the details, but the general gist of it kinda rings true. Jay sold weed to Adnan and is pretty shady in general, so it seems that Adnan saw him as someone unlikely to go to the cops.

It's just so hard to say though, there is so much that doesn't add up. According to the diary and people who knew him, Adnan never really seemed that shook up by the breakup, at least not enough to kill someone. Why did Adnan need help to dig a small hole in the ground in the first place, a task that supposedly only took 20 minutes? Why did Jay's story keep changing? If Jay was lying, what possible motive could he have for killing Hae?

It's a fantastic podcast though - well researched, well produced and utterly gripping.
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Yet. Remember we're only 4 EPs in.
 
T

tokkun

Member
Pikelet said:
Am I wrong or is there currently no plausible motive as to why anyone except Adnan would have done the killing?
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Yeah. The motive ascribed to Jay so far (that he is jealous of Adnan being friends with his girlfriend) does not seem plausible on its own. The indecent exposure guy is given no motive.

Of course, it is possible that Jay (or any other suspect) is just a psychopath without reasonable motive.

I guess the reason that I don't view Jay as being a compelling suspect as a listener is that he is obviously so shady that I assume the police must have considered him a suspect at some point and decided to drop it in favor of Adnan. I mean they pressed the indecent exposure guy pretty hard, and the circumstantial evidence on him was way less than on Jay.
 
P

Pikelet

Member
DreamDrop said:
Yet. Remember we're only 4 EPs in.
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It's definitely possible. However keep in mind that according to the blog, they are still researching and producing as they go. It's just as likely that they don't find anything else of note that contradicts the case as it went down.

People expecting real life to conform to traditional narrative structures are setting themselves up for disappointment.
 
M

Malyse

Member
Pikelet said:
It's definitely possible. However keep in mind that according to the blog, they are still researching and producing as they go. It's just as likely that they don't find anything else of note that contradicts the case as it went down.

People expecting real life to conform to traditional narrative structures are setting themselves up for disappointment.
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Not quite accurate. In episode one, Sarah said she's spent the last year of her life working on the case. I think its more the putting everything together that's happening in real time.
We’ve been getting lots of questions about why we’re only releasing one episode per week instead of the entire season all at once for those of you inclined to binge-listen. The reason is: We're still making them. As I write this, in fact, Sarah is re-writing Episode 5.

I guess you could say we didn’t get all our work done ahead of time. We’re reporting this story as we write it. We’re still pinning down information, doing interviews, following leads. So when you listen each week, the truth is that you’re actually not all that far behind us.
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B

Brakke

Banned
They're still actively reporting the case. Probably have a pretty good framework for the thing but they wouldn't still be asking questions if they actually had satisfactory answers to everything.
 
B

BearPawB

Banned
In some way, the sheer insanity of Jay's story almost makes me believe it more (?). It just seems insane that someone could make up that story.
 
O

OpinionatedCyborg

Member
Mully said:
I'm nervous that people will lash out at Jay after this season is over with.

Also, I'm thinking out loud here; likely reaching, but the title of the Podcast, Serial, could that imply that the murder was a serial murder? I doubt it, but it was something that came to mind.
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There already are a bunch of crazy fucks (and some who are just dumbasses) on the reddit page who are 100% convinced of someone's guilt, usually based on one or two things. Seriously, we're only 4 episodes in and some people have completely made up their minds and are on the verge of starting witch hunts. I will admit that after listening to the first 2 episodes, I googled the case. I didn't find much because it wasn't widely reported at the time. Then I spent about 15 minutes looking through court records. First Adnan's and then (with a little luck searching) Jay's. That's about the extent I'm willing to go to intrude on their private lives.

Jay ended up pleading guilty to accessory after the fact:

Charge No: 1
CJIS/Traffic Code: 1 0056
Description: ACCESSORY AFTER FACT
Plea: GUILTYPlea Date: 09/07/1999
Disposition: PROBATION AFTER CONVICTION
Disposition Date: 07/06/2000
Verdict: GUILTYVerdict Date:09/07/1999
Sentence Starts: 07/06/2000 Sentence Date:07/06/2000
Sentence Time: Yrs:05Mos:00Days:00Confinement :NC
Suspended Time: Yrs:05Mos:00Days:00
Probation Time: Yrs:02Mos:00Days:00Type:Supervised

I think the title of the podcast is just to signify that it's a single story told over the course of multiple podcasts as opposed to the discrete episodes of TAL.

I am guessing that the cell phone records will come into play in the next episodes. They will hopefully help shed some light on what happened.
 
M

Malyse

Member
OpinionatedCyborg said:
There already are a bunch of crazy fucks (and some who are just dumbasses) on the reddit page who are 100% convinced of someone's guilt, usually based on one or two things. Seriously, we're only 4 episodes in and some people have completely made up their minds and are on the verge of starting witch hunts. I will admit that after listening to the first 2 episodes, I googled the case.
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What part of tag your spoilers wasn't fucking clear? Don't post untagged shit that hasn't been covered on the damn show.

Ugh.

Whatever. Wish I hadn't seen that but lesson learned.
 
O

OpinionatedCyborg

Member
DreamDrop said:
Everything I cut out.
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Didn't the show mention that Jay didn't go to jail for the crime that he was involved in? I thought this was well known.

e: the bit about cell phone records is pure speculation on my behalf. Sarah keeps alluding to them, and they are key to help validating Jay's story. We've already delved into them a bit (Jay phoning Jen, which led into the reveal that Jen first went to the police, didn't talk, and then lawyered up and returned).
 
O

OpinionatedCyborg

Member
DreamDrop said:
If you google something, ffs spoiler tag it.
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That's not from google. It's based on the show.

I did google a few news articles from 1999. They reveal less than we know. For example, they don't even mention Jay. I went through their court records hoping to find spoilers, but what I found didn't reveal anything except the specific charges Adnan faced (and the type of criminal activity Jay was involved in prior to the case).
 
D

Dalek

Member
e31.jpg
 
P

Pikelet

Member
I agree that spoiler tags would be preferable because the podcast producers clearly dole out information in a deliberate way so as to attain some sort of effect. However, there's no reason to not be civil when someone makes what looks like an honest mistake.

/end thread derailment.
 
M

Malyse

Member
Its fine. I forget most on GAF dont read the op, so I'm more to blame than anyone. Sorry.


/sincere. Not being passive aggressive.
 
O

OpinionatedCyborg

Member
DreamDrop said:
Its fine. I forget most on GAF dont read the op, so I'm more to blame than anyone. Sorry.


/sincere. Not being passive aggressive.
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I read the OP, but I didn't think it was a spoiler. I think what happened is the show hasn't explicitly (or precisely) mentioned what I posted. I just assumed it had because it seemed obvious to me while listening. I do know a couple of things the show hasn't mentioned yet, but I had no plans on posting them, even with spoiler tags.
 
M

Mully

Member
OpinionatedCyborg said:
I read the OP, but I didn't think it was a spoiler. I think what happened is the show hasn't explicitly (or precisely) mentioned what I posted. I just assumed it had because it seemed obvious to me while listening. I do know a couple of things the show hasn't mentioned yet, but I had no plans on posting them, even with spoiler tags.
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Yeah I've looked over the Serial subReddit and there's a lot of spoilery stuff there. I'm excited to see what will likely unfold in the next couple of episodes.

Also, does anyone feel a little guilty for enjoying the show given the subject matter? I can't help but recoil a little each time I get excited about the next episode or some clue hidden in one of the earlier episodes. I feel it's a little wrong of me since a young woman died.
 
M

Malyse

Member
Mully said:
Yeah I've looked over the Serial subReddit and there's a lot of spoilery stuff there. I'm excited to see what will likely unfold in the next couple of episodes.

Also, does anyone feel a little guilty for enjoying the show given the subject matter? I can't help but recoil a little each time I get excited about the next episode or some clue hidden in one of the earlier episodes. I feel it's a little wrong of me since a young woman died.
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Well I don't actively enjoy it. I find it engaging, but so was 12 Years a Slave.
 
D

Dalek

Member
Mully said:
Yeah I've looked over the Serial subReddit and there's a lot of spoilery stuff there. I'm excited to see what will likely unfold in the next couple of episodes.

Also, does anyone feel a little guilty for enjoying the show given the subject matter? I can't help but recoil a little each time I get excited about the next episode or some clue hidden in one of the earlier episodes. I feel it's a little wrong of me since a young woman died.
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That's just human nature-everyone loves a mystery, and the appeal of a previously convicted man somehow being proven innocent is something everyone can get behind...
 
P

PeskyToaster

Member
This show is great! I burned through all for while trying to fall asleep. My mistake since I listened to all of them and then couldn't fall asleep because I was thinking about the case.

I don't know if this has been brought up but why haven't they asked Jay to describe the burial spot? They have Mr. S's description and it seems to have a few memorable elements that would make it stand out. Sounds like a decent way to see if Jay is telling the truth about stuff.
 
V

Vyer

Member
I'm trying to remember, did Jay's first story state that he helped bury her, but his later versions he claimed he did not?
 
A

AlexMogil

Member
The narrative has to go bad for Adnan soon.

And those detectives just seem lazy.

I'm a little bothered that I get so invested in the presenters voice and inflection. Her disbelief in the possibility of Adnan being guilty draws me to be sympathetic to him. Like I said I think a narrative crash is coming soon.
 
M

Mully

Member
DreamDrop said:
I got my parents listening.

Have you introduced anyone to the show?
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I downloaded the show to my mom's iPhone earlier this week. She's into mystery and detective fiction so I'm really curious to see how she likes the show. She doesn't know how to use the Podcasts app, so it might be a while until I find out.
 
R

RedShift

Member
Just listened to it.

I have a feeling the next episode will be bad for Adnan. It's been very one sided so far, it's hard to believe Jay's story. Unless the cops are really incompetent they must have had some pretty convincing evidence that backed him up.

Looking forward to tomorrow.
 
R

RedNalgene

Member
Really, really interesting episode. I won't spoil anything for anyone, but every time I think to myself "no way Adnan did it" the next episode comes out and makes me question that. This episode had me swing back and forth multiple times.
 
R

RedShift

Member
Cool thing, the title 'Route Talk' is a reference to Sarah Koenig's mother's list of things that are boring or vulgar and should never be talked about that they did an episode of TAL about.

Off the top of my head they were
-Your dreams
-How you slept
-Any minor illnesses
-Menstruation
-Money

But the no 1 thing that must never be used in conversation was route talk, I.e. Talking about how you got somewhere.
 
R

RedNalgene

Member
RedShift said:
Cool thing, the title 'Route Talk' is a reference to Sarah Koenig's mother's list of things that are boring or vulgar and should never be talked about that they did an episode of TAL about.

Off the top of my head they were
-Your dreams
-How you slept
-Any minor illnesses
-Menstruation
-Money

But the no 1 thing that must never be used in conversation was route talk, I.e. Talking about how you got somewhere.
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I didn't make the connection that Sarah Koenig's mother was the one in that other TAL episode! That's hilarious.
 
O

omgkitty

Member
RedNalgene said:
Really, really interesting episode. I won't spoil anything for anyone, but every time I think to myself "no way Adnan did it" the next episode comes out and makes me question that. This episode had me swing back and forth multiple times.
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Yeah, up until this point, I've been very much on Adnan's side, but after hearing that essentially everything after 6pm matches up, including Leakin Park and that he was with Jay during the day and they can prove it, I'm not so sure. I really still don't think he did it, but something just doesn't add up here. This show really makes you think about your perceived notions about other people and what they're telling you. My thought is why after all this time would Adnan lie? He said he didn't do it, and he still does. He's already in jail for murder, and he's been there for almost 15 years now. Why would he go along with this if all it's going to do is show everyone that he is a monster and killed her? As far as we know now, there's no hard evidence against him. We also haven't heard from Jay yet, or know where he is. I had wondered how this could go on for this many episodes, but there's still so much to cover. Definitely looking forward to see how this unfolds.
 
S

shinjijai

Member
i hope they continue with this experiment and get fully funded, honestly i would pay $5+ a season, maybe more, it's great stuff.
 
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