Ok even if that's true, where's the alternate theory on what happened?
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Serial: Season 01 Discussion - This American Life meets True Detective
- Thread starter Malyse
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Ok even if that's true, where's the alternate theory on what happened?
After watching Making a Murderer and seeing the cop reading off the license plate and make and model of a car before its owner was reported missing, and that Jesus lady finding the car within 25 minutes of entering a sprawling, unfamiliar property, I'm not above thinking some fuckery happened in regards to Hae's car.
It's possible that Jay knew who did it and helped them but it wasn't Adnan. Someone who Jay really was scared of would get him or Stephanie if he gave them away to the extent that he decided to pin it on Adnan instead.
In my head that's really the only explanation that works if Adnan didn't do it. Some of Jay's early stories to his friends had Adnan saying he knew "the local hit man" and Jay being really scared. Things that don't seem to fit Adnan but could fit other criminals that Jay knew. He just changed the other person to Adnan in his stories and then changed the story to fit Adnan better in every subsequent rebelling.
The other major possibility I entertained is that Adnan did do it, but that it was in a fit of rage, and he is incredulous to this day that anyone would believe he would do it, as good of a guy as he was. This would be someone for whom actually getting out of jail is less important than convincing people he didn't do it. In his Mind that's not "him" and he can't believe that anyone would really think that he did it.
In my head that's really the only explanation that works if Adnan didn't do it. Some of Jay's early stories to his friends had Adnan saying he knew "the local hit man" and Jay being really scared. Things that don't seem to fit Adnan but could fit other criminals that Jay knew. He just changed the other person to Adnan in his stories and then changed the story to fit Adnan better in every subsequent rebelling.
The other major possibility I entertained is that Adnan did do it, but that it was in a fit of rage, and he is incredulous to this day that anyone would believe he would do it, as good of a guy as he was. This would be someone for whom actually getting out of jail is less important than convincing people he didn't do it. In his Mind that's not "him" and he can't believe that anyone would really think that he did it.
It's possible that Jay knew who did it and helped them but it wasn't Adnan. Someone who Jay really was scared of would get him or Stephanie if he gave them away to the extent that he decided to pin it on Adnan instead.
Even if you're willing to believe that a small-time high school pot dealer ends up associating with murderers, you then have to figure a motive as to why one of Jay's associates would kill a teenage girl who was at-best tangentially related to Jay.
If you just finished watching How to Make a Murderer then you know all about how cops and lawyers can make a witness say things that aren't true in order to put a narrative together.
I've been saying that from the start of Serial season 1 but people dismiss that like it's science fiction.
Ok even if that's true, where's the alternate theory on what happened?
There isn't one because there was never allowed to be one. Personally, I wish they'd followed up on Don's fishy alibi.
I've been saying that from the start of Serial season 1 but people dismiss that like it's science fiction.
People see it happen in front of them and don't even realize it.
After listening to all of Serial, and trust me I'm a skeptic of investigators and witnesses etc, I just don't see a reasonable explanation that Adnan wasn't the perpetrator. Key number 1 for me is the fact he never attempted to call Hae after she was reported missing. His excuse that mutual friends were doing that for him is garbage. I know if my ex girlfriend disappeared I'd be doing everything in my power to find what happened to her.
I sorta feel like SK was a little too slanted regarding Adnan. Many of the episodes dealt with things that were beyond any scope of whether or not Adnan was guilty or not.
And fine you can argue perhaps he could have been found not guilty but I don't see any reasonable alternate theory and just too much evidence that Adnan did it. All the "problems for Adnan" that SK points out are too big of problems and the only counters are character counters. He's too nice or wasn't that messed up about the breakup. But for all of those there are things like he stole from the church. And other character witnesses that don't appear to be used in serial that say Adnan was kind of an asshole.
I sorta feel like SK was a little too slanted regarding Adnan. Many of the episodes dealt with things that were beyond any scope of whether or not Adnan was guilty or not.
And fine you can argue perhaps he could have been found not guilty but I don't see any reasonable alternate theory and just too much evidence that Adnan did it. All the "problems for Adnan" that SK points out are too big of problems and the only counters are character counters. He's too nice or wasn't that messed up about the breakup. But for all of those there are things like he stole from the church. And other character witnesses that don't appear to be used in serial that say Adnan was kind of an asshole.
I've been saying that from the start of Serial season 1 but people dismiss that like it's science fiction.
When Sarah Koenig said that there were 3+ hours of "pre-interview" with Jay that weren't recorded is when I just ignored everything Jay had to say. In his interview with The Intercept Jay moves around the trunk pop, the burial, everything. He's just all over the place. Remember, him staying out of prison depended on him putting Adnan in prison.
After listening to all of Serial, and trust me I'm a skeptic of investigators and witnesses etc, I just don't see a reasonable explanation that Adnan wasn't the perpetrator. Key number 1 for me is the fact he never attempted to call Hae after she was reported missing. His excuse that mutual friends were doing that for him is garbage. I know if my ex girlfriend disappeared I'd be doing everything in my power to find what happened to her.
I sorta feel like SK was a little too slanted regarding Adnan. Many of the episodes dealt with things that were beyond any scope of whether or not Adnan was guilty or not.
And fine you can argue perhaps he could have been found not guilty but I don't see any reasonable alternate theory and just too much evidence that Adnan did it. All the "problems for Adnan" that SK points out are too big of problems and the only counters are character counters. He's too nice or wasn't that messed up about the breakup. But for all of those there are things like he stole from the church. And other character witnesses that don't appear to be used in serial that say Adnan was kind of an asshole.
The only thing I have to say is that SK didn't so much as try and reconstruct what happened to Hae, as reconstruct the investigation. She didn't do a lot of original research into evidence and questioning of witnesses, she did some, but she was mostly going over what was happening with the investigation and in court.
By all accounts Hae was an extremely popular and well-liked. From the show, you'd think her whole world was Adnan and Don. If I think back to my high school days, and think about who I knew, I would have given a lift to easily any of a hundred different kids.
Jay said he happened upon the car during his normal routine. Then he couldn't identify where it was. Listen to Undisclosed. Jay's full of shit.
Damn you, now I have to listen to another podcast and get even further into the weeds.
After listening to all of Serial, and trust me I'm a skeptic of investigators and witnesses etc, I just don't see a reasonable explanation that Adnan wasn't the perpetrator. Key number 1 for me is the fact he never attempted to call Hae after she was reported missing. His excuse that mutual friends were doing that for him is garbage. I know if my ex girlfriend disappeared I'd be doing everything in my power to find what happened to her.
I sorta feel like SK was a little too slanted regarding Adnan. Many of the episodes dealt with things that were beyond any scope of whether or not Adnan was guilty or not.
And fine you can argue perhaps he could have been found not guilty but I don't see any reasonable alternate theory and just too much evidence that Adnan did it. All the "problems for Adnan" that SK points out are too big of problems and the only counters are character counters. He's too nice or wasn't that messed up about the breakup. But for all of those there are things like he stole from the church. And other character witnesses that don't appear to be used in serial that say Adnan was kind of an asshole.
Well why not place that on Don's head as well? Don was Hae's CURRENT BOYFRIEND and he didnt do any of that. He assumed she went to live in California to live with her father, and this is what he told police. Didn't even call her. Sounds suspicious, no?
Damn you, now I have to listen to another podcast and get even further into the weeds.
You should also listen to the podcast truth and justice, or maybe just the episode about Don, Hae's current boyfriend. or read this
http://www.thefrisky.com/2015-10-12/serial-update-we-need-to-talk-about-haes-boyfriend-don/
Don usually worked at the Owings Mills LensCrafters location, but on the day of Lee’s murder, he claimed he was working at the Hunt Valley store, covering someone’s shift. The manager at the Owings Mills location verified Don’s alibi to police on February 1, even though she was not actually working with him, and specifically gave them the times that he clocked in and out, including to take a quick lunch break. The police never interviewed anyone who was supposedly working with Don at the Hunt Valley location that day.
The manager at the Hunt Valley location was none other than Don’s mother.
Don’s alibi didn’t garner further investigation until September 1999, just before the start of Syed’s trial, when the defense filed a subpoena under seal requesting that LensCrafters produce all employment records for Don — and those records showed that Don had only worked at the Owings Mills location that week, and had not worked at all on January 13, 1999.
Prosecutor Kevin Urick somehow learned of the defense’s request, even though it was sealed, and subpoenaed those records for himself. He then had a conversation with the LensCrafters legal department, who, a few days later, found an additional time card showing that Don had worked at the Hunt Valley store on the day of Lee’s disappearance/murder. (The information on that time sheet matched the information provided by the Owings Mills manager on February 1.) They provided this time card to Urick and to the defense, but only Urick’s copy came along with a cover letter emphasizing that Don’s mother was the manager at the Hunt Valley location. Naturally, Urick never mentioned that little fact at trial.
Don had two employee ID numbers: the one used on all of his other time cards, regardless of which location he was working at, and the ID number listed on the time card provided to Urick. According to the various current and former LensCrafters employees Ruff spoke to, employees only have ONE employee ID number, which they use to clock in and out regardless of which location they are working at for their entire period of employment at the company.
According to these sources, only a LensCrafters location’s manager has access to that location’s employee records. In other words, if this is true, the only person who could verify that Don worked at Hunt Valley on the day of Lee’s disappearance/murder is the manager of the Hunt Valley location — aka Don’s mother. However, the police verified Don’s alibi with his usual manager at the Owings Mills location on February 1, most likely over the phone. She should not have had access to Don’s time card on January 13, 1999, and should not have been able to verify his alibi with actual employee records — but as Don was working at Owings Mills on February 1, the suspicion is that he gave her the information she needed to confirm that alibi for the police.
Caddywompus
Member
I've never binged a podcast before til I finished this one today.
Man, I knew that there wasn't going to be a resolution by the end but I thought I might lean one way or another. Jay is the most annoying part, he's this malleable piece to the puzzle who's painted as this fish tale spinning poser. It's so frustrating because there's got to be some truth to his version of the story, he wouldn't just make all that up to avoid some irrational fear of being convicted for drug dealing or whatever far right conspiracy involves string pulling from the shadows. I just don't know what to make of why he's even involved unless it's as simple as he's the go to guy for shady happenings.
Man, I knew that there wasn't going to be a resolution by the end but I thought I might lean one way or another. Jay is the most annoying part, he's this malleable piece to the puzzle who's painted as this fish tale spinning poser. It's so frustrating because there's got to be some truth to his version of the story, he wouldn't just make all that up to avoid some irrational fear of being convicted for drug dealing or whatever far right conspiracy involves string pulling from the shadows. I just don't know what to make of why he's even involved unless it's as simple as he's the go to guy for shady happenings.
I've never binged a podcast before til I finished this one today.
Man, I knew that there wasn't going to be a resolution by the end but I thought I might lean one way or another. Jay is the most annoying part, he's this malleable piece to the puzzle who's painted as this fish tale spinning poser. It's so frustrating because there's got to be some truth to his version of the story, he wouldn't just make all that up to avoid some irrational fear of being convicted for drug dealing or whatever far right conspiracy involves string pulling from the shadows. I just don't know what to make of why he's even involved unless it's as simple as he's the go to guy for shady happenings.
Yeah and last year he was interviewed some more when this was released-and everytime he gave a different version of events-even contradicting the testimony that was used to sentence Adnan.
Caddywompus
Member
I went back like 10 pages to catch up on the updates after the podcast ended.
Jay just makes himself look worse and worse. Now it's hard to take even some of the pillars of his testimony seriously. Like did he even see the body in the trunk? That comes off as some big mouth showing off in HS and his lie getting out of hand once it spreads like wild fire in school. Knowing were the car was could have been just having his ear to the streets or he was way more involved. I still don't get why you'd be so concerned with people being able to track you down?
That's just conjecture though...
I've been trying to think of a relationship in my HS to relate to Jay and Adnan dynamic. Just an acquaintance who you only associate with because of Stephanie. A close friend you care enough about whether or not her loud mouth street wise boy friend gives her a birthday present. Maybe he is someone you'd turn to for something like this, maybe he's the patsy in Adnan's master plan that falls apart, maybe he's the perfect sap to quickly close a case, maybe ...
I don't know. There's an endless number of scenarios that could be true. To be put away by someone like that there has to be some truth in his lies or you would just turn it into a he said, he said case.
Jay just makes himself look worse and worse. Now it's hard to take even some of the pillars of his testimony seriously. Like did he even see the body in the trunk? That comes off as some big mouth showing off in HS and his lie getting out of hand once it spreads like wild fire in school. Knowing were the car was could have been just having his ear to the streets or he was way more involved. I still don't get why you'd be so concerned with people being able to track you down?
That's just conjecture though...
I've been trying to think of a relationship in my HS to relate to Jay and Adnan dynamic. Just an acquaintance who you only associate with because of Stephanie. A close friend you care enough about whether or not her loud mouth street wise boy friend gives her a birthday present. Maybe he is someone you'd turn to for something like this, maybe he's the patsy in Adnan's master plan that falls apart, maybe he's the perfect sap to quickly close a case, maybe ...
I don't know. There's an endless number of scenarios that could be true. To be put away by someone like that there has to be some truth in his lies or you would just turn it into a he said, he said case.
I binged season 1 and what an interesting case. I'm also hooked on this kind of podcast as well. I don't see much discussion here regarding the updates of the hearing. I googled but didn't find much info on what's going on with this. Wonder how this will play out. I'm not sure if Adnan did it or not but I never liked what I heard about Jay. With all the changes and inconsistencies it just makes it seem weird. I'm about to start season 2. Any other podcast I can listen to like this one? Or ones about stories.
I binged season 1 and what an interesting case. I'm also hooked on this kind of podcast as well. I don't see much discussion here regarding the updates of the hearing. I googled but didn't find much info on what's going on with this. Wonder how this will play out. I'm not sure if Adnan did it or not but I never liked what I heard about Jay. With all the changes and inconsistencies it just makes it seem weird. I'm about to start season 2. Any other podcast I can listen to like this one? Or ones about stories.
I got a lot of fiction ones like this. :3
Give me some names!I got a lot of fiction ones like this. :3
Give me some names!
Limetown
The Black Tapes
The Message
TANIS
Also: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1165974
I apologize for the bump so far after the fact, but I just listened to the entirety of season one (and the three little updates) all today after knowing nothing of the podcast except it's name and that it was popular.
So, wow. It was captivating to say the least. I wish there was a better conclusion to the case but I suppose that is normal. Sarah was a goofy and fun person to hear the story from, Adnan seemed so open and cooperative which really helped the show I think, and after it all I'm no closer to believing one side than I was this morning before I ever listened at all. I'm interested to see if his appeal process leads to another trial, and I would love to hear Jay's side of the story further.
Just based on what was presented (and the tiny little reading on it I did during my lunch break when I wasn't listening), I'm inclined to think Adnan is guilty, but really what do I know?
I may listen to all of season 2 tomorrow. I can listen to music/podcasts pretty much the whole workday.
Is anyone following the updates about Adnan?
So, wow. It was captivating to say the least. I wish there was a better conclusion to the case but I suppose that is normal. Sarah was a goofy and fun person to hear the story from, Adnan seemed so open and cooperative which really helped the show I think, and after it all I'm no closer to believing one side than I was this morning before I ever listened at all. I'm interested to see if his appeal process leads to another trial, and I would love to hear Jay's side of the story further.
Just based on what was presented (and the tiny little reading on it I did during my lunch break when I wasn't listening), I'm inclined to think Adnan is guilty, but really what do I know?
I may listen to all of season 2 tomorrow. I can listen to music/podcasts pretty much the whole workday.
Is anyone following the updates about Adnan?
I apologize for the bump so far after the fact, but I just listened to the entirety of season one (and the three little updates) all today after knowing nothing of the podcast except it's name and that it was popular.
So, wow. It was captivating to say the least. I wish there was a better conclusion to the case but I suppose that is normal. Sarah was a goofy and fun person to hear the story from, Adnan seemed so open and cooperative which really helped the show I think, and after it all I'm no closer to believing one side than I was this morning before I ever listened at all. I'm interested to see if his appeal process leads to another trial, and I would love to hear Jay's side of the story further.
Just based on what was presented (and the tiny little reading on it I did during my lunch break when I wasn't listening), I'm inclined to think Adnan is guilty, but really what do I know?
I may listen to all of season 2 tomorrow. I can listen to music/podcasts pretty much the whole workday.
Is anyone following the updates about Adnan?
This will get you up to date and is way more informative.
http://undisclosed-podcast.com/episodes/season-1/
Serial was basically chasing its tail.
This will get you up to date and is way more informative.
http://undisclosed-podcast.com/episodes/season-1/
Serial was basically chasing its tail.
Haha, I was already like ten minutes into the first episode when you posted this. Interested to get this take, too. She said she knows him personally? Like her brother was best friends with him? Could be weird, but I'll give it a shot.
Haha, I was already like ten minutes into the first episode when you posted this. Interested to get this take, too. She said she knows him personally? Like her brother was best friends with him? Could be weird, but I'll give it a shot.
I didn't have a problem with her relation to him, it's not a character witness thing. She and the guests/co-hosts are legal professionals and they really lay out the problems with everything.
Current status spoiler:
he's been granted a new trial and was just denied bail for "reasons"
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